The Curse of Jerry Sloan

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The Curse of Jerry Sloan Empty The Curse of Jerry Sloan

Post by bobheckler on Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:29 pm

The Jazz have just traded Deron Williams, the man many blamed for the departure of Sloan, to New Jersey for Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, the Nets 2011 first round pick and a protected 2012 pick (from GSW).

Here's the first things you need to learn from the NJ Net Playbook, Deron:

Ya ne ponimaju - I don't understand
Udaci - Good Luck
Pomogite! - Help!
Pozhaluĭsta, ne delaĭ mne bolʹno - Please don't hurt me


bob

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Post by sinus007 on Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:06 pm

Hi,
Before he learns that playbook DWill has to learn some Russian words similar to 7 words that usually blipped on TV and the proper way to use them. affraid

AK
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Post by Sam on Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:12 pm

Sinus, are you referring to that famous Russian, Georgio Carlinski?

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Post by sinus007 on Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:17 pm

yes, of course.
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Post by Outside on Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:03 pm

This one's a shocker. There seem to be two theories as to why the Jazz did this:

A. To get rid of the cancerous Williams who was so disruptive that he caused Jerry Sloan to quit.

B. To get value for Williams and avoid all the uncertainty around the possible/probable lockout (and the fact that the lockout will prevent the Jazz from signing him to an extension) and whether he would re-sign in 2012.

Personally, I think it's mostly B with maybe a little of A thrown in, but A doesn't make sense to me. If you believe the scenario that Sloan quit because Williams rebelled and management backed Williams over Sloan, then why would management now get rid of Williams? So instead of backing one or the other, they get rid of both? I don't know, maybe this is more symptomatic of panic and disarray by the Jazz after Sloan left.

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Post by bobheckler on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:10 pm

Outside wrote:This one's a shocker. There seem to be two theories as to why the Jazz did this:

A. To get rid of the cancerous Williams who was so disruptive that he caused Jerry Sloan to quit.

B. To get value for Williams and avoid all the uncertainty around the possible/probable lockout (and the fact that the lockout will prevent the Jazz from signing him to an extension) and whether he would re-sign in 2012.

Personally, I think it's mostly B with maybe a little of A thrown in, but A doesn't make sense to me. If you believe the scenario that Sloan quit because Williams rebelled and management backed Williams over Sloan, then why would management now get rid of Williams? So instead of backing one or the other, they get rid of both? I don't know, maybe this is more symptomatic of panic and disarray by the Jazz after Sloan left.

Outside

outside,

I agree. It doesn't make sense to me for Jazz management to get rid of the coach their star player wanted gone, and then get rid of that star player.

Unless they're sick of both of them.

Boozer/DWill gone from Utah to major market teams in Chicago and Metro NY.
'Melo/Billups gone from Denver to Metro/NY.
Amar'e/JRich gone from Phoenix to Metro NY/Orlando.

Has the bottom fallen out of the WC? Well, the Spurs seem to be doing well, but who else has risen?

There is a distinct possibility the league will contract. The talent flight to bigger market teams might be the precursor. If you're gonna make less under the new CBA, then you'll want to make it up in endorsements, right?


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Post by Outside on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:32 pm

Bob,

I don't think there will be contraction, but I do think the league will look a lot different after the next CBA is signed. I hope it's not about accepting talent flight to big markets, because that means that small markets will be at an institutional disadvantage, like in baseball. A healthy league means healthy franchises in small markets, not just big markets.

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Post by mrkleen09 on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:58 pm

Williams was one of my favorite players, until I started reading all the articles about his role in the Jerry Sloan resignation and all the sleezy, backstabbing things he was accused of doing to drive a wedge between players and management. Now he is just another spoiled shithead who has never won anything of any importance in his life.

If the Jazz even considered this, they should have done it BEFORE they lost a legendary coach. Now they have no superstars - no hall of fame coach - and no hope of a future anytime soon.

Good Night Utah.
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Post by Sam on Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:23 pm

Outside,

Was it you who recently posted about the immense financial cost to the league of downsizing? I can't recall the details because I don't pay a lot of attention to the financial aspects of the league. But I did find that post compelling.

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Post by Outside on Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:28 am

Sam,

Yep, that was me. I responded to a question by DBrown in the "Clarification of terms" thread dated 2/16.
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Post by bobheckler on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:13 am

sam wrote:Outside,

Was it you who recently posted about the immense financial cost to the league of downsizing? I can't recall the details because I don't pay a lot of attention to the financial aspects of the league. But I did find that post compelling.

Sam

sam,

Outside always writes compelling posts. I don't always agree with them, but they do make me stop and read them carefully.

bob

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Post by bobheckler on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:16 am

mrkleen09 wrote:Williams was one of my favorite players, until I started reading all the articles about his role in the Jerry Sloan resignation and all the sleezy, backstabbing things he was accused of doing to drive a wedge between players and management. Now he is just another spoiled shithead who has never won anything of any importance in his life.

If the Jazz even considered this, they should have done it BEFORE they lost a legendary coach. Now they have no superstars - no hall of fame coach - and no hope of a future anytime soon.

Good Night Utah.

mrkleen,

The discussion is revolving around whether, in fact, DWill actually did have something to do with Sloan's departure at all in the first place. This chain of events suggests that he didn't (which is what Sloan is claiming too) and that was all just a bunch of media hype and fingerpointing. If he did, then you're right, the Utah management are dumber than a bag of rocks because now they're completely irrelevant.

bob

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Post by Sam on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:26 pm

Bob,

We are so very fortunate to have guys like Outside and you (among many others) posting on this board.

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Post by mrkleen09 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:35 pm

bobheckler wrote:mrkleen,

The discussion is revolving around whether, in fact, DWill actually did have something to do with Sloan's departure at all in the first place. This chain of events suggests that he didn't (which is what Sloan is claiming too) and that was all just a bunch of media hype and fingerpointing. If he did, then you're right, the Utah management are dumber than a bag of rocks because now they're completely irrelevant.

bob

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So you think after 23 years on the job, Jerry Sloan CHOOSE to resign at halftime of a game in the middle of the season?
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Post by Outside on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:42 pm

[quote="bobheckler"]
sam wrote:Outside always writes compelling posts. I don't always agree with them, but they do make me stop and read them carefully.
Bob,

Say... how about if you to supply me with all the beer I want for the rest of my life?

Outside

P.S. Let me guess -- compelling, but you don't agree with it.
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Post by bobheckler on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:02 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:mrkleen,

The discussion is revolving around whether, in fact, DWill actually did have something to do with Sloan's departure at all in the first place. This chain of events suggests that he didn't (which is what Sloan is claiming too) and that was all just a bunch of media hype and fingerpointing. If he did, then you're right, the Utah management are dumber than a bag of rocks because now they're completely irrelevant.

bob

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So you think after 23 years on the job, Jerry Sloan CHOOSE to resign at halftime of a game in the middle of the season?

mrkleen,

I think Jerry Sloan, based upon his long career, could choose to do whatever the hell he wants to do without anybody thinking less of him, and that includes quitting mid-game, mid-season.

Can you name another coach, drawing upon the vast multitudes who are less respected, less successful and less popular than Jerry Sloan, who have been fired mid-game, mid-season?

The Jazz are still 31-27, that's still good for 9th place in the WC despite being 0-4 without Sloan (they were 31-23 when he left). How many management teams fire a coach mid-game, mid-season when he's got a 57% winning percentage? They didn't fire him after, much less during, the 2004-2005 season when they ended up 26-56 (.317).

There's something more going on here than just a player squeezing out a coach, and I think the departure of the prime suspect shortly afterwards supports that hypothesis.

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Post by bobheckler on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:05 pm

[quote="Outside"]
bobheckler wrote:
sam wrote:Outside always writes compelling posts. I don't always agree with them, but they do make me stop and read them carefully.
Bob,

Say... how about if you to supply me with all the beer I want for the rest of my life?

Outside

P.S. Let me guess -- compelling, but you don't agree with it.

outside,

Not a problem. A couple of conditions, though:

1. How long is your life expectancy?
2. How much influence can I have over your life expectancy?
3. You're not a beer drinker.

I'm flexible. I'll accept any two of the above conditions...

Compelling?

bob


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Post by mrkleen09 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:21 pm

bobheckler wrote:mrkleen,

I think Jerry Sloan, based upon his long career, could choose to do whatever the hell he wants to do without anybody thinking less of him, and that includes quitting mid-game, mid-season.

Can you name another coach, drawing upon the vast multitudes who are less respected, less successful and less popular than Jerry Sloan, who have been fired mid-game, mid-season?

Where did I say he was "fired"? I said he resigned.

bobheckler wrote:The Jazz are still 31-27, that's still good for 9th place in the WC despite being 0-4 without Sloan (they were 31-23 when he left). How many management teams fire a coach mid-game, mid-season when he's got a 57% winning percentage? They didn't fire him after, much less during, the 2004-2005 season when they ended up 26-56 (.317).

Again, not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China - since no one is claiming Sloan was fired.

bobheckler wrote:There's something more going on here than just a player squeezing out a coach, and I think the departure of the prime suspect shortly afterwards supports that hypothesis.

Not at all. If anything it supports my hypothesis.

-Williams butted heads with Sloan over and over again (this FACT is irrefutable) - and told upper management that it was him (Sloan) or me (Williams)
-The team may not have told Sloan to step down, but they made it clear that they were supporting Williams and not the Coach
-Sloan quit because of the lack of upper management support
-A week later, Williams is still causing problems in the locker room - and is seemingly still unsatisfied with the coach, in spite of the fact that there is a new person in the role
-Team decides that Williams is a problem no matter who is in charge, cuts their losses, and ships him out of town.

Makes perfect sense to me.
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Post by Outside on Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:47 pm

bobheckler wrote:outside,

Not a problem. A couple of conditions, though:

1. How long is your life expectancy? Hmm... my blood pressure is good, both parents are still alive and in their 80s, and the family tree has numerous relatives who lived into their 90s. I'm 54. I don't drink all that much, but I think we're talking a lot of beer.
2. How much influence can I have over your life expectancy? If the beer I get is Lucky Lager, I'd say a lot.
3. You're not a beer drinker. I almost choked on my beer when I read this one.

I'm flexible. I'll accept any two of the above conditions... Okay, I choose no. 1 twice.

Compelling? It's getting there. Maybe another beer would help.
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