Non-Celtic Team Updates

If the Lakers and Mavericks keep playing the way they are, LA will have two lottery picks in the draft next summer.
The Mavericks have been dreadful so far. I heard this morning that Nowitzki called them something like "old, fat and out of shape".
The Lakers did play pretty well against Chicago on Sunday but did not play well yesterday.
Gasol's new shoulder issue won't help their problems.
With the make up of the team, with a new coach and new system, it will take a while for them to play well.
With that being said, unless one or two guys have a career year, LA is not a championship contending team.

Lamar Odom hasn't done anything to help Dallas.
He is 2 for 16 in fga attempts and has as many technicals as made shots in their first two games.

Lamar is used to playing for a winner and, with Dallas being 0-2, he isn't right now. Ergo, the frustration technicals. I don't put much weight in his effectiveness through the first two games, with almost no preseason, than I do in the Lakers' performance through two games.

I don't expect the Lakers to keep playing like this. Let's remember, Andrew Bynum is still serving out his 4 game suspension from his cheap shot on Barea in the playoffs last year (the league reduced it from 5 to 4. I presume that's because the season's shorter. This means that the next time the CBA comes up for renegotiation, everybody gets to take cheap shots and pay a lesser price). With the loss of Odom, that means Gasol and McRoberts are the frontcourt and that's about it and that's not enough. That will start to change 3 games from now (he has two more to serve).

In the end, I expect the Lakers to make the playoffs. They might not have a very high seed, but I don't see them missing the playoffs. That would eliminate one of your lottery picks. Who was the other one from? The Odom deal was for a trade exception, not a lottery pick. Personally, I think the trade exception is more valuable than the lottery pick, but it's not a lottery pick.

The players who need to have a career year, for the Lakers to have a championship contending year, would have to be either Fisher and/or Blake. As we saw last year, you can't count on your frontcourt to bail out a really poor backcourt (Kobe excepted) series after series after series. That is even more true now that the Lakers have lost versatility with the departure of Odom. At least one of those two have to really step up. Personally, I don't see it happening so I have to agree with your summation, TJ.

bob

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[quote="bobheckler"]Lamar is used to playing for a winner and, with Dallas being 0-2, he isn't right now. Ergo, the frustration technicals. I don't put much weight in his effectiveness through the first two games, with almost no preseason, than I do in the Lakers' performance through two games.

I don't expect the Lakers to keep playing like this. Let's remember, Andrew Bynum is still serving out his 4 game suspension from his cheap shot on Barea in the playoffs last year (the league reduced it from 5 to 4. I presume that's because the season's shorter. This means that the next time the CBA comes up for renegotiation, everybody gets to take cheap shots and pay a lesser price). With the loss of Odom, that means Gasol and McRoberts are the frontcourt and that's about it and that's not enough. That will start to change 3 games from now (he has two more to serve).

In the end, I expect the Lakers to make the playoffs. They might not have a very high seed, but I don't see them missing the playoffs. That would eliminate one of your lottery picks. Who was the other one from? The Odom deal was for a trade exception, not a lottery pick. Personally, I think the trade exception is more valuable than the lottery pick, but it's not a lottery pick.

The players who need to have a career year, for the Lakers to have a championship contending year, would have to be either Fisher and/or Blake. As we saw last year, you can't count on your frontcourt to bail out a really poor backcourt (Kobe excepted) series after series after series. That is even more true now that the Lakers have lost versatility with the departure of Odom. At least one of those two have to really step up. Personally, I don't see it happening so I have to agree with your summation, TJ.

bob

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Bob,

The Lakers traded Odom and their 2012 2nd round pick to Dallas for their 2012 1st round pick (unprotected).
I don't expect it to happen, but if Dallas has a terrible year and misses the playoffs, LA would have their lottery pick.
Any time a team makes a trade and doesn't take back salary they get a trade exception.

Fisher is not going to have a career year. That ship has sailed. They need Blake (who should start), Ebanks or McRoberts to have a career year.

[quote="tjmakz"]

bobheckler wrote:Lamar is used to playing for a winner and, with Dallas being 0-2, he isn't right now. Ergo, the frustration technicals. I don't put much weight in his effectiveness through the first two games, with almost no preseason, than I do in the Lakers' performance through two games.

I don't expect the Lakers to keep playing like this. Let's remember, Andrew Bynum is still serving out his 4 game suspension from his cheap shot on Barea in the playoffs last year (the league reduced it from 5 to 4. I presume that's because the season's shorter. This means that the next time the CBA comes up for renegotiation, everybody gets to take cheap shots and pay a lesser price). With the loss of Odom, that means Gasol and McRoberts are the frontcourt and that's about it and that's not enough. That will start to change 3 games from now (he has two more to serve).

In the end, I expect the Lakers to make the playoffs. They might not have a very high seed, but I don't see them missing the playoffs. That would eliminate one of your lottery picks. Who was the other one from? The Odom deal was for a trade exception, not a lottery pick. Personally, I think the trade exception is more valuable than the lottery pick, but it's not a lottery pick.

The players who need to have a career year, for the Lakers to have a championship contending year, would have to be either Fisher and/or Blake. As we saw last year, you can't count on your frontcourt to bail out a really poor backcourt (Kobe excepted) series after series after series. That is even more true now that the Lakers have lost versatility with the departure of Odom. At least one of those two have to really step up. Personally, I don't see it happening so I have to agree with your summation, TJ.

bob

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Bob,

The Lakers traded Odom and their 2012 2nd round pick to Dallas for their 2012 1st round pick (unprotected).
I don't expect it to happen, but if Dallas has a terrible year and misses the playoffs, LA would have their lottery pick.
Any time a team makes a trade and doesn't take back salary they get a trade exception.

Fisher is not going to have a career year. That ship has sailed. They need Blake (who should start), Ebanks or McRoberts to have a career year.

TJ,

Ok, I didn't know about the draft choices. I still don't see Dallas missing the playoffs, just as I don't see the Lakers missing them. Over the course of the coming month or so, I see both of those teams straightening up and flying right.

I agree about Fisher, that ship has long since sailed. I'm a big fan of a franchise showing loyalty to a valuable, longtime player/employee (which is why I get so upset when I get on the subject of Buss' inadequate demonstration of respect for George Mikan, Slater Martin and the 5 championships he inherited from the Minneapolis Lakers as well as their recent treatment of Brian Shaw) but there's a limit and that limit is when they are hurting the franchise. Starting D-Fish is hurting them now. I'm not sure what a "career year" for Blake would look like, but I'm not optimistic we'll see it anyway. He was actually perfect for the triangle, but they're not playing the triangle anymore. Obviously, it doesn't say much for the Lakers' chances if you're counting on a second year player and a newbie. I think if Troy Murphy has a really good year (he had 8 boards in 23 minutes the first game) you have a better chance than counting on McRoberts. Troy has at least shown, in the past, he can light it up and board.

bob

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Dallas lost is a very close game to OKC to bring their record to 0-3.
Lamar Odom had another dreadful game. 2-11 in fga for 4 points in 17 min.
In 3 games this season Odom is 4-27 in fga.
He will improve but how much is the question.
He is 32 and has distractions in his personal life.

The Lakers put together another great effort against the Knicks.
Mike Brown has LA buying into his offensive and defensive schemes.
The Lakers offensive enables more people to get involved as it utilizes constant player and ball movement. The Triangle was more stationary placement of players which meant the best scorers received most of the opportunities to score. With this offense, if you get yourself open, you will probably get the ball in a position to score.

Kobe looks great. For those that have said that he hasn't adjusted his game to come to term with his diminished athleticism, I have to say you are completely wrong. He is a much smarter players now and doesn't need to drive past his defender to be the best player on the court.

Metta World Peace looks much more comfortable with his new role. Instead of being buried in the corner hoping to shoot an open 3 like he was the last two years, he is involved with the offense and has some 1 on 1 opportunuties where he can use his strength against the defender.

I really like Steve Blake's role in this offense. He loves to push the ball up the court and is shooting with more confidence. I hope he becomes LA's starting pg in the near future.

Bynum comes back tomorrow. That should be a big boost for LA.

TJ,

31 and 32 points in the first two quarters. That's even better than the Celtics have been doing. (lol)

Sam

tjmakz wrote:Dallas lost is a very close game to OKC to bring their record to 0-3.
Lamar Odom had another dreadful game. 2-11 in fga for 4 points in 17 min.
In 3 games this season Odom is 4-27 in fga.
He will improve but how much is the question.
He is 32 and has distractions in his personal life.

The Lakers put together another great effort against the Knicks.
Mike Brown has LA buying into his offensive and defensive schemes.
The Lakers offensive enables more people to get involved as it utilizes constant player and ball movement. The Triangle was more stationary placement of players which meant the best scorers received most of the opportunities to score. With this offense, if you get yourself open, you will probably get the ball in a position to score.

Kobe looks great. For those that have said that he hasn't adjusted his game to come to term with his diminished athleticism, I have to say you are completely wrong. He is a much smarter players now and doesn't need to drive past his defender to be the best player on the court.

Metta World Peace looks much more comfortable with his new role. Instead of being buried in the corner hoping to shoot an open 3 like he was the last two years, he is involved with the offense and has some 1 on 1 opportunuties where he can use his strength against the defender.

I really like Steve Blake's role in this offense. He loves to push the ball up the court and is shooting with more confidence. I hope he becomes LA's starting pg in the near future.

Bynum comes back tomorrow. That should be a big boost for LA.

TJ,

I told ya so!

bob

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Kings: DeMarcus Cousins demands to be traded

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-kings-cousins

No way I can see we could pull it off, but I would give them anyone (or maybe two) not named Rondo, cash and a draft pick.

Someone's going to get an already solid and still developing young center here.

NYCelt wrote:Kings: DeMarcus Cousins demands to be traded

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-kings-cousins

No way I can see we could pull it off, but I would give them anyone (or maybe two) not named Rondo, cash and a draft pick.

Someone's going to get an already solid and still developing young center here.

NYCelt,

The part of DeMarcus Cousins that are still developing is his maturity. Not only has the Sacto coaching staff had enough, so has his teammates. He's said to be a bully in the lockerroom, throws tantrums and nobody wants to deal with him. Could KG and some of the other vets handle him? Sure, but only for this year. What happens next year? Will hardheaded Rondo and immature Cousins co-exist?

I'd rather not find out.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/217974/Kings_Not_Expected_To_Trade_Cousins


bob

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Hmmm...

If he's a head case that is an issue.

Probably one of the best young centers around too.

It'll never happen anyway but the thought of Rondo dishing to Cousins, and Cousins tough interior presence is mind-boggling from a talent standpoint.

Sounds like from a disruption standpoint it would also be epic.

Cousins has loads of talent, but he's a poster child for head cases. One and done at Kentucky, he's only 21 years old and immature even for that age. I don't know the particulars of his background, but he strikes me as a guy who dominated in youth leagues and high school, was idolized and coddled, grew accustomed to everyone around him indulging his selfish whims, and is finding out the hard way that a pro team doesn't operate that way.

Maybe, someday and with some other team, he'll figure it out, but I wouldn't bet on it. You don't want him on your team.

Outside

To anyone,

I'm usually firmly in the camp of not accepting head cases on the Boston Celtics. But I find it tantalizing to wonder how KG et al might deal with Cousins. Could they potentially help him make enough of a turnaround to brighten his NBA future while brightening the present of the Celtics? I'm not even considering the possibility that Doc would fail in relating to Cousins; my confidence in Doc's personnel skills is that high.

I guess that my evaluation would depend on the answers to two questions:

1. Do Cousins' "quirks" (perhaps that's being overly kind) affect either his or his teammates' play on the court, or are they mainly locker room issues? I wouldn't want him mucking up any fragile chemistry that is now gradually developing in the play of the club. If the locker room is the main issue, I might just take a shot at him.

2. How is Cousins' defense at the center position? The Celtics cannot afford to take on a defensive liability at this juncture. It would be difficult enough integrating a new guy into the defensive scheme under any circumstances. So I believe I'd try to trade for him only if he plays above-average defense. Moreover, he's listed in Basketball Reference as a 6' 11" 260-pound FORWARD. Is he really a legitimate center? (And I don't need to hear any more of the stuff about the lack of true centers around the league. I would specifically like to have one or two guys on the roster who can take advantage of all the teams without true centers and who can hold their own against the true centers who are out there.)

The deal itself could be relatively straightforward. Jermaine to the Kings, Cousins to the Celtics—straight up. Trade-checker says the salaries work. The Kings would get a good locker room presence who can still play (as long as they're willing to accept the same injury risks the Celtics are now taking) and whose salary would be removed from their cap at the end of this season. The Celtics would relieve themselves of the one guy whose playing time would be in greatest jeopardy if they traded anyone else for Cousins. I'd be willing to go through the rest of the season and the playoffs with Cousins (a fairly reliable 14/8 guy) and Stiemsma playing the majority of minutes at center and Bass and/or Wilcox or even KG chipping in when necessary.

I fully understand, and sympathize with, all the comments about what a nut job Cousins is. I'd just like to know more about the exact nature of his "mental idiosyncrasies" and his defense before completely abandoning the notion of trying to trade for him.

Sam

no thanks.

Cousins is Zach Randolph without the keen basketball IQ and sparkling personality.

Sam,

Cousins is a center. For some reason I've seen him and other centers often listed as "PF" but the guy can play the 5 with the best of them. I think I wrote something out of total fantasy about a year ago about him being the Celtics center of the future and teaming with Rondo so I find this whole bit kind of funny. I'll produce the crystal ball next.

I've watched him enough to know he's a heck of a talent at both ends. He can score, he can rebound, he can pass out of the post and set up others with accuracy. He's as hard-nosed as they come. Love that DirecTV NBA ticket, where you can surf and catch this stuff.

The Celtics have contacted Sacramento according to The Herald, but so has everyone else. The usual "League Source" is being quoted as saying our chances of getting him are highly unlikely.

My initial reaction was get him no matter who we part with short of Rondo. The only thing that makes me bite back on that last statement is that both Bob H and Outside seem to have a strong feeling he's the wrong guy because of attitude issues and both have probably seen a ton more about him out there on the left coast than I have here. I think Kleen isn't West coast but his reaction is about as quick.

Trying to see both sides there are plenty of stories about head cases that work out fine. DJ ring a bell? There are plenty of examples of dysfuntional teams that win big, and I often have reminded board members in similar debates that they've probably been on a few at some level; I know I sure have.

Most days, for a team ready and needing to make big changes as we are, I say take the risk on a highly talented malcontent. I'm usually pretty strong in my convictions about what I see on the court or playing field. The thing that makes me waffle so much here is that super-quick "no way" reaction from three of our respected friends.

I'm posing this to BobH, Outside, Kleen, and everyone else in addition to NYCelt. I understand everyone's reasons, caveats and qualifiers. Bottom line:

Let's say (although I understand it's highly unlikely) that Sacramento were willing to trade Cousins to the Celtics for Jermaine, straight-up.

Would you do it? Yes or No? Actually, don't bother answering here. I think I'll start a poll thread on the matter.

Sam

Sam,

Oh sure, be that way. I can't waffle on a poll.

I'll look for it!

Ginobili breaks his shooting hand and is out indefinitely.

sam wrote:To anyone,

I'm usually firmly in the camp of not accepting head cases on the Boston Celtics. But I find it tantalizing to wonder how KG et al might deal with Cousins. Could they potentially help him make enough of a turnaround to brighten his NBA future while brightening the present of the Celtics? I'm not even considering the possibility that Doc would fail in relating to Cousins; my confidence in Doc's personnel skills is that high.

I guess that my evaluation would depend on the answers to two questions:

1. Do Cousins' "quirks" (perhaps that's being overly kind) affect either his or his teammates' play on the court, or are they mainly locker room issues? I wouldn't want him mucking up any fragile chemistry that is now gradually developing in the play of the club. If the locker room is the main issue, I might just take a shot at him.

From a Yahoo Sports article (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AujJaKOUQ9J0F.G3CmS0QlC8vLYF?slug=ys-demarcus_cousins_kings_010112)

Cousins had run-ins with Sacramento coaches, including Westphal, former assistants Truck Robinson and Mario Elie, and strength-and-conditioning coach Daniel Shapiro. Cousins was also was suspended after a locker-room altercation with teammate Donte Greene last season after Greene didn’t pass him the ball for a potential game-winning shot in a loss to the Oklahoma City Thunder. At the time, Greene called Cousins “spoiled,” one source said, a reference to the franchise’s coddling of its young center.

“He’s selfish,” one source close to the team said of Cousins. “He’s always angry or clowning. He needs to change. The Kings have been great about covering things up for him, and his agent has been protecting him.

“He’s always miserable. He acts like he’s entitled.”

Some players are disillusioned with the constant drain of Cousins’ tantrums, sulking and absence of professionalism. “He’s a bully, and they let him get away with it,” one source said. “No one wants to deal with the guy.”

If his issue was just with the head coach, that's one thing. But that's a lot of coaches to have "run-ins" with. And unless the two sources quoted are the same person and happen to be Donte Green, there appear to be multiple players, coaches, and other people in the organization who are fed up with his act. I have yet to read a quote by anyone in the Kings organization in his defense, other than the owners and GM who want to protect their investment and merely say they're not trading him, which is not exactly defending him.

The best quotes come from Tyreke Evans and Chuck Hayes:

“He’s passionate and he wants to win, but he just needs to learn how to control his actions,” Kings center Chuck Hayes said. “Some things are better left unsaid. And if you’re not feeling the system, the team, the players, don’t let your body language say it.”

Said Kings guard Tyreke Evans: “I’ve known DeMarcus for a long time and I want nothing but the best for him, but hopefully he can keep his head on straight and be a part of this team because we need him.”

From an SI.com article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/01/01/demarcus.cousins.kings/index.html?sct=nba_t12_a1):

There was support for Cousins among his teammates, but numerous players talked openly about the changes they believe he needs to make. Recently added big man Chuck Hayes, whose free-agent signing was partly due to the need for a respected veteran voice on the league's youngest team, said Cousins simply must learn to control the emotions that might have played a part in his decision to talk about being traded.

"I've known him since '09 when he was going into his freshman year [at Kentucky]," Hayes said. "He's a tremendous talent. Maybe it takes a couple more years for him to get it or for him to figure out this game and how he can best dominate this game.

"But right now, the guy -- as good as he is talented, that's how much he is emotional. He'll show everything. And in this game, you have to have short-term memory. Learn to forget about it and move on. ... I've talked to [Cousins] so many times on the practice court, in the games, during the middle of the game, just so he doesn't have an outburst, just so his mood and his spirits will stay up and he'll see the brighter picture."

Kings forward Jason Thompson concurred that maturity issues remain for Cousins.

"The way you take it is, obviously he's a good talent, but you don't want the situation to be a distraction," Thompson said. "I don't want to say the word of 'cancer-like situations' -- I'm not saying he is that but it's those types of situations. You don't want those bad situations to keep occurring, because it has a bad effect on the team."

Hayes is doing what he was brought in to do -- what Garnett and the other Celtic veterans would do -- which is to provide the veteran mentoring that Cousins so desperately needs.

But I see in those quotes a team that recognizes both Cousins' potential as a player and as a destructive force. They are not defending him or his behavior in any way. Every one of them wants to see him do well but recognizes that he must change in order to do so. No one is saying, "Oh, he's fine, sometimes you have disagreements with the coach and it's no big deal."

I would guess I've watched the Kings as much as anyone here, and I've seen numerous examples of his behavior adversely affecting the team on the court. A play won't go his way, whether he misses a shot, doesn't get a call, doesn't receive a pass, or whatever, and he complains and sulks and goes into a downward spiral on the court. He wants to be LeBron, hoisting up the occasional three and dazzling everyone with his ballhandling and athletic prowess instead of using his skills to beneficial effect in the post. It's a waste, it's up to Cousins himself to correct, and I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe he's going to change.

sam wrote:2. How is Cousins' defense at the center position? The Celtics cannot afford to take on a defensive liability at this juncture. It would be difficult enough integrating a new guy into the defensive scheme under any circumstances. So I believe I'd try to trade for him only if he plays above-average defense. Moreover, he's listed in Basketball Reference as a 6' 11" 260-pound FORWARD. Is he really a legitimate center? (And I don't need to hear any more of the stuff about the lack of true centers around the league. I would specifically like to have one or two guys on the roster who can take advantage of all the teams without true centers and who can hold their own against the true centers who are out there.)

Like his overall play, he could be a good defensive center, but he is only sporadically so now. Not only is he reasonably tall (6'11" in shoes) and big (270 lb. or more), he's long (7'6" wingspan and 9'5" standing reach) and athletic for a guy his size. He has all the tools, except for between the ears.

sam wrote:The deal itself could be relatively straightforward. Jermaine to the Kings, Cousins to the Celtics—straight up. Trade-checker says the salaries work. The Kings would get a good locker room presence who can still play (as long as they're willing to accept the same injury risks the Celtics are now taking) and whose salary would be removed from their cap at the end of this season. The Celtics would relieve themselves of the one guy whose playing time would be in greatest jeopardy if they traded anyone else for Cousins. I'd be willing to go through the rest of the season and the playoffs with Cousins (a fairly reliable 14/8 guy) and Stiemsma playing the majority of minutes at center and Bass and/or Wilcox or even KG chipping in when necessary.

I fully understand, and sympathize with, all the comments about what a nut job Cousins is. I'd just like to know more about the exact nature of his "mental idiosyncrasies" and his defense before completely abandoning the notion of trying to trade for him.

I cannot imagine the Kings giving up Cousins for Jermaine O'Neal, who will be lucky to play 40 games this season and could easily retire afterward, regardless of whether the salaries work. Despite all his difficulties, Cousins is young and has enticing potential, so the Kings would have to receive something of value in return. JON is not value.

My guess is that the Kings sent him home for a game and publicized his trade demands, which he apparently made in emotional outbursts at Westphal, as some sort of wake-up call to him and aren't that serious about trading him at this point, but I'm sure they'd consider it if presented with the right package. The Celtics would have to come up with a lot more than JON to get him.

Outside