Celtics Paid for Ray's Surgery!

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Celtics Paid for Ray's Surgery! Empty Celtics Paid for Ray's Surgery!

Post by MDCelticsFan Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:42 am

After going through that medical expense for Ray's bone spur procedure, and the expense of heart surgeries for Green, and Wilcox, do you think it prudent in light of the financial outlay for medical expenses to let any of these three just walk to another team?

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Post by mrkleen09 Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:54 am

I dont think one has anything to do with the other.

If you were working for a Ford Dealership and hurt your ankle in the shop at Ford....then a few months later, left to go work for Chevy. Since your injury was incurred at Ford - Ford would be on the hook to pay for your medical treatment.

Same concept here. Bone spurs developed with Ray as a member of the Celtics....I am sure the CBA says they are on the hook to pay for the fix.

Now the fact that Ray let Celtics doctors do the operation - says a lot about his trust in the people here. But I dont think you can read much more than that into it.
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Post by MDCelticsFan Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:59 am

MRKleen:

If I were working for a Ford dealership, I'd love to get a new Ford Focus at employee pricing and enjoy years of getting 40 mpg and screwing the oil companies! (LOL)

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Post by gyso Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:52 am

MDCelticsFan wrote: After going through that medical expense for Ray's bone spur procedure, and the expense of heart surgeries for Green, and Wilcox, do you think it prudent in light of the financial outlay for medical expenses to let any of these three just walk to another team?

MD!

MD,

Fact or conjecture? All three? Can you provide a link or some other concrete evidence? That is where any discussion such as this should start, IMO.

Thanks in advance,

gyso

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Post by gyso Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:02 am

Here is a fact:

From Larry Coon's NBA Salary Cap FAQ:

71. Are player contracts insured?

There is a league-wide policy that insures the contracts of around 150 players each season. The five most expensive contracts for each team are included, and teams have the option of submitting additional names for coverage. The carrier has the right to exclude 14 contracts per season, such as when they consider a player with a very large remaining contract to be a medical risk. For example they excluded Luol Deng in 2008-09 because he had $71 million remaining and a history of back injuries. The list of excluded players changes each year, so a player who is not covered one season might be covered the following season.

If an insured player is disabled, there is a 41 game waiting period, after which the insurance company pays 80% of the guaranteed portion of the player's base salary. Once a player is covered, the carrier can't exclude the player for the remainder of his current contract.

If the player is traded, his new team receives the benefit -- for example, even though Cuttino Mobley's heart condition was discovered prior to his trade to the Knicks, the Knicks received the insurance payout.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q71

So it is possible that Ray's contract was covered. He wasn't a free agent at the time of the surgery.

Wilcox's contract was full MLE, so he may have been covered as well.

Green was not under contract, the offer to him was recinded after his physical.

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Post by MDCelticsFan Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:10 am

Gyso:

I thought it was just general practice that any medical condition discovered while perfoming basketball playing activities or aggrivated or arising as a result of basketball activities that required some type of treatment or surgical procedure was considered work related and would be the obligation of the team to which the player was under contract for said basketball-related activities would be held liable or responsible for the teatment or repair of that condition to most closely return to a normal order or functioning of the body part or parts affected by the injury or condition resulting from or discovered by the team for the individual under contract to the aformentioned team holding contractural rights to the player (s) in question.

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Post by tjmakz Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:34 am

gyso wrote:Here is a fact:

From Larry Coon's NBA Salary Cap FAQ:

71. Are player contracts insured?

There is a league-wide policy that insures the contracts of around 150 players each season. The five most expensive contracts for each team are included, and teams have the option of submitting additional names for coverage. The carrier has the right to exclude 14 contracts per season, such as when they consider a player with a very large remaining contract to be a medical risk. For example they excluded Luol Deng in 2008-09 because he had $71 million remaining and a history of back injuries. The list of excluded players changes each year, so a player who is not covered one season might be covered the following season.

If an insured player is disabled, there is a 41 game waiting period, after which the insurance company pays 80% of the guaranteed portion of the player's base salary. Once a player is covered, the carrier can't exclude the player for the remainder of his current contract.

If the player is traded, his new team receives the benefit -- for example, even though Cuttino Mobley's heart condition was discovered prior to his trade to the Knicks, the Knicks received the insurance payout.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q71

So it is possible that Ray's contract was covered. He wasn't a free agent at the time of the surgery.

Wilcox's contract was full MLE, so he may have been covered as well.

Green was not under contract, the offer to him was recinded after his physical.

gyso

gyso,

What you are referencing is player contracts that are insured.
This is not related to any type of health or medical insurance that would cover injuries or surgeries.

If a player has an injury in which he can no longer fulfill his contract, most likely the team will be paid from the insurance company for the balance of his contract.
There are some players such as Amare Stoudamire whose contract is not covered by insurance due to significant previous injuries.

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Post by tjmakz Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:53 am

Talking about medical conditions, this was just announced today:

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
The NBA has granted Boston a 2013 second-round pick from Oklahoma City in a dispute over Jeff Green's medical condition, sources tell Y!

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Post by bobheckler Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:56 am

In the bigger picture the cost of this surgery is chump change and may pay dividends if Ray feels appreciated and stays with the Celtics.

This is BIG business. Numbers that would set us back on our heels or send us screaming for the exits don't faze any of these people. Not Wyc, not Danny, not Ray, not for a NY second.

I believe that NO is thinking of buying out Rashard Lewis for $10M and getting his contract off their books. So, they traded two players to get Lewis just so they can pay ten million dollars to get rid of him. Compare that to this and you start to see the scale we're talking about.


bob

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Post by gyso Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:05 pm

tj,

You are right, it talks about a player's contract. I am just trying to use any facts available, instead of pure conjecture.

Of the three, two were under contract. Of those two, Ray had fulfilled almost all of his contract. Only Wilcox had a good amount of his contract left when his "injury" was diagnosed. I doubt that after the remainder after the 41 day wait that there was enough money on the books to be able to use that benefit.

So, where does that leave us? In normal workplaces, there is Worker's Compensation, which covers injuries in the workplace. If NBA players are covered under this type of insurance, then the insurance carriers could have paid for Ray's and Wilcox's surgeries. That is purely conjecture on my part, I don't know what insurance the NBA has to cover workplace injuries. That being said, if there was Worker's Comp, the insurance could have paid for two of the operations, not the Celtics.

gyso

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Post by gyso Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:22 pm

MDCelticsFan wrote:Gyso:

I thought it was just general practice that any medical condition discovered while perfoming basketball playing activities or aggrivated or arising as a result of basketball activities that required some type of treatment or surgical procedure was considered work related and would be the obligation of the team to which the player was under contract for said basketball-related activities would be held liable or responsible for the teatment or repair of that condition to most closely return to a normal order or functioning of the body part or parts affected by the injury or condition resulting from or discovered by the team for the individual under contract to the aformentioned team holding contractural rights to the player (s) in question.

MD!

For the majority of workers, workplace injuries are covered under Worker's Compensation insurance. Companies are obligated to ensure their workers are covered, depending on company size (how many workers). There is probably more to it than just the companie's size. The companies are not normally liable for the treatment or repair of workplace injuries. That is the very purpose if WC insurance, so that small companies do not go bankrupt paying for injured workers.

Does the NBA have a system similar to worker's compensation? I don't know. I imagine there is some kind of insurance to cover injuries.

However, as bob stated, there is so much money involved that the actual cost of these operations may be chump change for the teams.

gyso

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Post by RosalieTCeltics Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:31 pm

We are talking like this payment would come directly from the Celtics. Certainly they have insurance on each player for situations like these. I am sure of that.
I find it interesting that the Celtics were just granted a second round draft pick in the Jeff Green case. I am sure the fighting was for a first round, after all he lost an entire year of his basketball life due to this medical condition, and who knows if he will ever be the player he was supposed to be?
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Post by tjmakz Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:35 pm

The pick that was just granted to Boston is Charlotte's 2013 2nd round pick pick via OKC, so that pick should be in the 31-34 range next year.
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Post by NYCelt Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:44 pm

Hmmm...

I've got a bad rotator cuff.

I may have aggravated it while using my mouse on this board.

Sam? Anything?
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Post by gyso Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:48 pm

NYCelt wrote:Hmmm...

I've got a bad rotator cuff.

I may have aggravated it while using my mouse on this board.

Sam? Anything?

If worker's comp is based on actual pay, where does that leave you? (LOL)

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Post by MDCelticsFan Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:03 pm

Gyso:

It leaves NYCelt holding a bag with a BIG hole in the bottom! (LOL)

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Post by NYCelt Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:28 pm

I guess without Ray's shooting ability, I shouldn't expect Ray's benefits package!
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Post by RosalieTCeltics Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:41 pm

you wish!!!
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Post by NYCelt Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:13 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:you wish!!!

That's about it, Rosalie; I wish!
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Post by pete Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:29 pm

NY,

After reviewing the board's policy on work related injuries, you have to now use the other arm. In the unlikely event that it too becomes painful to post, you then must fill out the 75 page request for a preliminary hearing on this matter, as well as providing us with your first born male child.

Although it may seem harsh, I'm pretty sure you were the one that wrote it!

Please don't shoot the messenger!

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Post by NYCelt Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:12 pm

pete wrote:NY,

After reviewing the board's policy on work related injuries, you have to now use the other arm. In the unlikely event that it too becomes painful to post, you then must fill out the 75 page request for a preliminary hearing on this matter, as well as providing us with your first born male child.

Although it may seem harsh, I'm pretty sure you were the one that wrote it!

Please don't shoot the messenger!

Pete


Pete,

Good point.

Since my first born male child would register a grocery bill higher than the injury treatment cost I guess I'll just have to post left-handed.

Besides, I think we were all drinking when we wrote those policies.

Regards
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Post by RosalieTCeltics Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:30 pm

Pete - I want to sit on the committee that will make the decision whether to grant him workmen's comp when the time comes. I have so much sympathy for men!!!
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Post by gyso Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:38 pm

Rosalie,

Only if sympathy = apathy? (LOL)

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Post by pete Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:43 pm

Rosalie,

You are the only woman that I know that has any sympathy for men, that is awesome! You are welcome to sit on any board that I have any say in.

NY, I seemed to remember Bird relying on his left hand due to an injury, so that sound reasonable. Never thought about the grocery bill, based on a quick calculation, I will recuse myself from any further proceedings!

Pete




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Post by tardust Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:41 pm

can I get my union involved?
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