So What Happened

I missed the game last night. So what happened. I have not read any commentary from anywhere.

I did take a look at the box score and saw that Boston shot 1 for 15 from 3 point land and also was outrebounded 47 to 29. And the Hawks hit the offensive glass 16 to 6, But Boston outscored the Hawks in the paint and on fast break points and shot around 49% for the game. To's were pretty even.

I am going to make a blind evaluation that the Celtics lost this game because they gave up too many offensive rebounds which led to second chance points.

dboss

dboss

Just got overall hustled, failed to box out. Desire seemed gone. No fire, no drive, poor effort .
Just laid a big egg, Atlanta had an awfull lot to do about it too.

beat

Thanks Beat

It is a long season and games like this serve as a reminder to the Celtics that teams are going to bring their "A" games with them.

dboss

Dboss,

Boy, did you pick a great game to miss. My evaluation's on the post-game thread. But, in a nutshell, I talk about very little other than the rebounding. (Our handy dandy advanced stats indicate that the Hawks collected 41% of the rebounds that came off their offensive boards.) But I could also have talked about team lethargy (so much for "home cooking and rest" as an antidote). I could also have alluded to being a half step late for everything. I could also have mentioned (for maybe the 30th time) the problems of not having a good alternative to a three-point standaround mentality.

This was serious. This should be the absolute low point of the season as far as I'm concerned.

Nothing will correct poor rebounding like attention to fundamentals (completely lacking last night). But, because I think the bench is vulnerable in the rebounding department, with Sheed being in and out (literally), and because they really have a four-man bench plus some starter, and because Williams is playing well (the team leader, by a whopping margin, in rebounds per minute), I'm wondering if they'll try Baby at SF when he returns. Add another potential inside offensive presence to compensate for Sheed's perimeter mentality; add considerable rebounding bulk. He's got some Barclayesque agility, and I'd like to see it proven to me that he couldn't match up well with opposing 3s. Moreover, he's already mentally committed to transitioning from his former role with Sheed on the team.

I don't mean to imply that Baby's return would be some kind of panacea. But I do believe all the options potentially available to Doc won't be sorted out until the end of this calendar year (if then).

Sam

dboss, my concern with Doc's structured offensive theory when playing a running team is that the Celtics play "hurry up and slow down" while the other team plays loose, relaxed and needs not worry about the Celtics fast break. That allows the opponents offensive guy to focus on offensive boards without any concerns that the C's are going to take off on the break. On the other hand, it appears to me that Doc has the Celtics so focused on stopping the fast beak that most of the offensive guys are heading back on defense as soon as the threes and KG's long range shots are launched. The result----no offensive boards for the Celtics and too many offense boards for the "running teams".

There has been no post up game whatsoever which has pretty much taken the team's most reliable outside shooters, Ray and Eddie out of the game. Paul is working way too hard to get his shots and Rondo's quickness and speed have been negated by the slow-down, run down the clock offense.

Doc needs to let his "talent" use their natural "talent" and avoid dictating the game from the bench!!

We need more fun and less structure.

David

Sam, you and I look like Siskel and Ebert with these last two posts. Although, your analyses are always technical correct.

I agree with you about Baby's return (sorry Wyc, we still love Baby, what's a punch between good friends anyway). He will add another dimension. However, I believe Shelden should be given a significant amount of minutes. His confidence against Bynum and the Lakers will be important.

David

David,

I call the Ebert role. Yes, he's overweight, but he's still living...and he has hair.

Sam

Sam, like I said, you are always technically correct!!!

David

d14 sam dboss

When PP does his iso stuff he works too hard and we stand around and watch him too much. The reason we dont dig 1.) Kobe 2.) LaBron PP usually gets something nice done but it kills our low and makes him tired.

So Doc...fix it!

jeb65 wrote:d14 sam dboss

When PP does his iso stuff he works too hard and we stand around and watch him too much. The reason we dont dig 1.) Kobe 2.) LaBron PP usually gets something nice done but it kills our low and makes him tired.

So Doc...fix it!

Jeb, this is my concern as well. When the team is getting bogged down on offense, Paul tries a bit too hard to take over the game. He starts forcing things against double teams, etc. That was the point that I think Rosalie was making about Paul. I think the C's are trying to hard to follow the "programmed game plan" and our not simply letting their basketball instincts take over. Eddie is as ridgid as I have ever seen him and Ray is having to force too many shots as well. What's the point of paying $55M to smaller, quicker, faster point guard if they are going to force him to play "someone's style".

Come on Doc, just throw up the ball and let'em play. They have talent to adjust and dominate anyone.

David

D14

At least PP's iso stuff needs to be built in with some cutters or pick and pop-roll. Somethin that involves team.

There is nothing surprising here, guys. I have pointed out previously 3 things:

1) Celtics always have trouble with young teams with athletic front lines (Bulls, Hawks, Magic, etc.

2) I believe the Celtics may be one of the poorest offensive rebounding teams in the NBA;

3) Too much reliance on 3-point shooting;

The Celtics and therir age are not conducine to outrebounding young, athletic teams. What they can do is control game tempo. When they cannot control game tempo, they will lose a lot of times ti the NBA's best teams.

It is obvious to me that 2nd half movement and passing against both Suns and Hawks fell off considerably. Again, more standing around, more three point shooting, fewer free throws all adds up.

All of this is nothing new! We will be talking abpit these factors all season.

Go Celtics!

Seven years later

How times have changed.

dboss

Wow

Sure do miss those guys.

Very cool, dboss!

Pete, I am so glad you guys are still all on board the site, even if ALL those Celtic players and coaches from 2009 are gone...all except Danny and Wyc, and Gino of course.

Pete

Interesting that the Celtics and Hawks have played each other seven times in the playoffs

I miss our guys Jeb and Sam and find myself thinking about them a lot and I really miss not seeing a new post from them. But as you can see we still have them with us.

dboss

Worcester,

Glad you are here!

dboss, I do as well.

As you guys know, I don't post much, but read several times a day. When I read, I envision their responses to the posts here. Since they were so active, it is easy to imagine what they would write in response.

Pete

Kind of funny seeing this.

It takes me back to the '07-'08 playoff series, when a bunch of us got together to watch the Celtics play the Hawks in the first round of the playoffs in our last championship year. This was back in BDC days prior to this forum.

I remember picking up beat and his son Marcus at a stop on the NY Thruway along the way, and meeting up with Sam, Worcester, Cowens, BobC and several others at the Alston Sports Depot in Boston.  It was a fairly big group.  I remember BobC playing Marcus on one of those arcade mini free throw games in the bar, and walking away shaking his head at how many the kid managed to hit.  Sam showed a pre-game video of some of the old fast breaking Celtics teams from the Cousy years.

I'm sure I didn't mention everyone that was there and still with us on this board now.  But if you were present, be sure to remind me now!

We all have some history together.

I gave up basketball, of all types, after that humiliation administered by Marcus!

I believe Mike from (JP?) was there, as well as Sand. Both from BDC days though didn't carry over to this forum. That was my first time meeting board members and it was a very fun time.

I also remember the waitress..... Wait, what happens in Allston stays in Allston.

That was Mike Derderian from NP, North Providence. We still talk regularly, but he no longer has a computer. My friend zbill hough from westford was there too. Sam's classic film made the night.

Bob and W -

MikeDfromNP.  I remember him.

And not only the waitress, but that, shall we say, well endowed young woman?  The one that practically accosted Sam post-game, bouncing and jiggling some of her more notable features right in front of him.

Cowens was ready to go out on the town afterwards, but the rest of us were spent from the game.  Game 3, I think.  Hawks took it at home, big night for Josh Smith and a rookie named Al Horford.

Somewhere there are some pictures from that day.  I think they got posted to the BDC board at the time, but I'm not sure who took them.

Regards

I'm heart broken... I've heard about that waitress for years

Thanks for the mammaries.