POLL ON CELTICS' CHEMISTRY

The Celtics have now won six consecutive games. how about thinking back over the streak and indicating whether the starters or the bench have displayed better chemistry. Yes, I'm aware that there are often both starters and bench players on the floor at the same time. Just take a little "basketball license" and assume that, if there are at least starters on the floor, it's the starters out there and, if there are at least three bench players on the floor, it's the bench out there. I'm at least as interested in the reasons for your vote as in the vote itself.

Thanks,

Sam

As you can see I voted even. I think the starters have had good past chemistry, but not as good this year as last. They do seem to be looking more and more like last years starters. A big part of that is Bradley. He has allowed guys to move back into their roles that were there at the start. Terry back to the bench, Rondo being able to freelance more without it costing us so much.

The bench chemistry has gotten better thru the play of Sully and Lee. KG ends up with those guys a lot and they seem to push the ball a lot more and one guy doesn't dominate the ball. The defensive aggressiveness has picked up I think from AB on the first team. Trying to keep it going so to speak.

In all I think it is intertwined between the two groups. When we are substituting players we don't see a drop off like we did earlier in the year.

Well I probably didn't answer this very well. The only thing I can say for certain is the chemistry finally looks natural. To me that is the biggest part of being a Very good basketball team..

The Bench has been playing MUCH better lately and the most improved players on the streak (aside from Bradley) have all been off the bench - Lee - Sully and Green have gotten much more consistent and aggressive.

But there is no denying the stability that Pierce, Rondo and KG add - and Bass has started hitting his jumpers again....so I cant really vote for anything other than even.

Thanks to Tardust and Mrkleen for very thoughtful perspectives. Tardust, there are no right or wrong answers—only interesting ones.

Sam

I'm going with the about equal, though from what i've seen or gathered Bass has suffered a bit of the ol fish out of the water syndrome. Not sure if the Rondo-loop to KG has been in force this much either... Mostly Bass though seems/seemed to be a bit out of focus.

Sully and Green are really looking good out there too, maybe JET is sort of like the Bass of the bench lately but it'll come. Lee too, i think is making strides.

Overall i think the chemistry and confidence of both groups is growing, ive never liked the idea of "units" rather preferred the idea of interchangable players as needed, this season looks (to me anyhow) like we have a bit more of that going on that actual predescribed units.

While the first unit appears to have displayed a better devoloped sense of chemistry-as well they should, they've had in some cases 7 and 5 years of playing together, the second unit is not far behind, certianly not far enough behind to not say 'about equal"

i think the non starters deserve plenty of praise for that.

Doc made a good point about units last night. It isnt that he sees games as places to make 5 substitutions at a time...but he said in practice, it is important that the bench have a solid 5 that gets used to playing with each other....and that is finally happening with the return of Bradley.

I voted 3 starters they are the core but I sure am glad that both units are playing better. The key has to be the return of Bradley to the starting lineup, thus I favor them as that, as others have said, is the key to the streak.

I voted for the bench.

Lee's game, which was underwhelming when he was a starter in lieu of Bradley, was not good. His game in the past week or two has been stellar at both ends.

Sully has become a beast.

Green has developed confidence and is a very tough matchup when he's aggressive.

Barbosa, in the few minutes he has played, has been very effective.

Only JET has performed below expectations, both as a starter and coming off the bench.

The starters have struggled. Rondo had a good game last night against Charlotte, but has been a little prima donna who played weak defense and made some bad decisions, both in his play and demeanor. Pierce had some monster games but has cooled a bit. Bass' shot has been dropping more, but he's not at the same level he was last year. Only Bradley, among the starters, has truly exceeded expecations and his expectations were quite high to begin with.

According to 82games.com, the three top 5-man units in terms of +/-, are:

+42 - Terry, Lee, Sully, Green, Garnett. Four bench, one starter.
+31 - Rondo, Terry, Pierce, Bass, Garnett. A pre-Bradley starting unit.
+24 - Rondo, Lee, Green, Sully, Garnett. Three bench, two starters.

The second one, the +31 one, has by far the most minutes together than any other unit. That makes it the most reliable matrix, but it is also the oldest and least relevant since Bradley has played the last 7 games and the question posed by Sam is about the last 6 games.


bob
P.S. I cast my vote for the bench before I looked these stats up.


.

My vote is going to the bench. It has seemed more and more evident that these young guys are getting "IT". They have come in when the team has been faltering and before we know it we are up ten. The only one I would include in the lineup is, possibly, Rondo. However, it is obvious that he looks to his older teammates first.

As far as Bass is concerned, he has played hard. His offensive game is not what it was last year, but for the most part he is hustling when he is out there. However, with the addition of Sullinger to the team, his role has been
somewhat less. Green is finally showing the world what he can do and I believe that the best is yet to come with him,

Naturally, it goes without saying that Bradley has definitely affected this team. His attitude, his tenacity for the ball and just the way he plays defense in general is a joy to watch.

So, that being said, I still wouldn't want to go into the fire without our Big 3.
They youngsters are learning fast though.

Rosalie

I'm going to agree with Heinsohn when he said the bench is currently playing better than the starters. That could be due something other than chemistry. For example, they could be scoring more points per possession than the starters by going completely iso, which would minimize the importance of chemistry,

As a matter of fact, I think some members of the bench are more comfortable creating their own shots than depending on being set up. I think Lee does some of that (and has been very effective with it, particularly in taking it to the hoop when nothing else is available). But Terry is the main one. And the fact that he's out of sorts offensively reinforces my belief that, by being more of a free lance guy, he's not in tune with the chemistry the bench is building.

When I think of chemistry, I think not so much about individual players. I focus on how the players are interacting. When the bench (as supplemented by KG or someone else—sometimes Rondo) is on the floor, I see MUCH more movement without the ball than I see among the starters. I see better picks being set. I see a higher percentage of successful pick-and-rolls (primarily when Rondo's playing with the bench). I see at least as much ball movement, if not more. And, for the most part, I see better shots being taken.

BobH, you and I both had the same ideas about consulting 82games. However, in order to compare +/- figures, you have to divide those figures by the number of minutes played by that combination of players. That puts comparisons in the right context (sort of like using the "per 36 minutes" measure). Otherwise, players who logged more minutes would be more likely to have bigger pluses simply by virtue of the number of minutes they have logged.

You show Rondo-Lee-Green-Sully-Garnett in third place on an absolute +/- measure. On a +/- points per minute basis, they're actually WAY ahead of all other combinations.

According to 92games, the current starting lineup and the "purest" all-bench lineup both have negative +/- points on a points-per-minute:

-0.06 Rondo-Bradley-Pierce-Bass-Garnett (the current starting lineup)
-0.08 Barbosa-Lee-Green-Sully-Wilcox (the "purest" all-bench combination

Guess which Celtics 5-man combination scores BY FAR the most points per minute:

+0.97 Rondo-Lee-Green-Sully-Garnett

This happens to be the five I'd most like so see on the floor near the end (if Sully has made it that far without fouling out).

Here's how some other combinations with plus figures rank:

+0.56 Terry Lee-Green-Bass-Sully
+0.55 Terry-Lee-Green-Sully-Garnett
+0.48 Rondo-Lee-Sully-Pierce-Garnett
+0.24 Rondo-Terry-Pierce-Bass-Garnett
+0.21 Rondo-Terry-Green-Bass-Wilcox
+0.17 Rondo-Terry-Pierce-Green-Garnett

Yes, the number of minutes is nothing like it will be after a couple more months. Yes, I know that Sully and Terry played with the starters for a while while Bass played with the bench for a while. Also, I believe 82games is usually one or two games behind. So these are not perfect figures. But, subject to future change, it seems to be an undeniable fact that Rondo and KG are part of a considerably more successful unit when playing with Lee, Green and Sully than with Pierce, Bass and Bradley.

I also voted for the bench before doing all this lookup. So, on both an observational and statistical basis, I go with the bench.

Sam

I voted for the bench - I like their ball movement better, their defense better (except for AB) and I believe they're outscoring the starters.
So what's not to like?

Three starters plus 2 rotation guys. But ask again in 2 months

Dboss

This is our best lineup:
Rondo Bradley/Lee Pierce/Green Sully KG

So Cow, you can play only five at a time. Which five do you think has the better chemistry—a starter-heavy five or a bench-heavy five?

Sam

Sam depends on whos got their game going and who the opponent is, best match ups, etc......

.....I voted both about equal