Celts Making No Adjustments - Part 2

Everything I listed in my previous post about lack of adjustments can be reiterated after today's poor play against a porous Knick defense and team. The Celtics struggled to score against the poorest defense in the NBA. Again, things I saw today that were listed previously:

1) poor player and and ball movement (only 21 assists againat a team not even concentrating on defense); Rondo had 2 assists after the 5 minute mark of 3rd quarter;

2) Celtics were 8 for 15 on 3 pointers in the middle of the 3rd quarter, yet they only hit 2 of 10 the rest of game; see old legs, pacing and settling;

3) Isolation with Pierce and jumpshooting resulted in Rondo getting only 2 assists after the 5 minute mark of the 3rd quarter;

4) Allen and Garnett were 6 for 27 at one point in game. The legs are getting old folks. This will be a recurring theme if the Celtics don't start getting more player movement and ball movement. We have to intersperse our younger players.

5) We gave up too many 3-pointers again. We are not closing out on the shooters. See old legs, pacing. See interspersing younger players.

6) half of Wallace's shots were 3-pointers. Again he shot poorly. He is shooting 25% on 3's and approximately 35% altogether. Wallace is playing very good defense; get him down on the blocks (sound familiar?);

My original post stated these problems are going on without adjustments. After today's game all I can say is where is our coaching staff this year? What are they doing / not doing to turn this thing around?

I do feel Big Baby presence may give us a big boost. When is BB due to start working out?

Go Celtics!

I am happy to say that I completely missed the game (yes there is a merciful God above) thinking that the game was tonight. I was watching NFL action... thankfully.

Well, you know.. a W isn't always a W.

Hard to swallow this turkey!

On the brighter side, Rondo was an improved 4 for 8 from the line. YIKES.

I look forward to the post mortem with great interest.

GC

among the many strong points you make, SD, i completely agree with the need to intersperse younger legs (see Daniels, M. and Williams, S.) and the question of where the coaching staff is and What Are They Thinking ? (see Rivers, Doc) ...

Michael in Denver

Just saw highlights but looked pretty gloomy.

KG didn't seem to be moving well.

Ugly win.

KG got somewhat hurt 4th quarter and came up gimping toward the end of the game - glad he had the legs to get that last shot off solid !! i'll be looking forward to updates on that apparent strain or injury or whatever they'll call it in the Globe pages and on this site ...

gacracker wrote:I am happy to say that I completely missed the game (yes there is a merciful God above) thinking that the game was tonight. I was watching NFL action... thankfully.

Well, you know.. a W isn't always a W.

Hard to swallow this turkey!

On the brighter side, Rondo was an improved 4 for 8 from the line. YIKES.

I look forward to the post mortem with great interest.

GC

Wow Rondo is approaching Chamberlin's free throw numbers!!!!!!!!!!

This team paid lip service to coming out focused and aggressive in trying to take back the title they say they felt was stolen from them. Guys, you got to do more than talk a good game. This year's team does not commit to hard nosed defense for 48 minutes-too many uncontested lay ups and 3 pointers. What's wrong with KG and R. Allen's shooting. I give Ray some credit for trying to go inside more and do more with his mid range game. We need more KG post ups and Rasheed on the low block particularly when a couple of "3's" are missed. When the C's struggle to beat a 2 win team, you know the handwriting is on the wall. At this point, Cleveland, Orlando, and Atlantal are clearly ahead of the Celts. The Green & White look to be fading fast.-MD.

I am really disappointed to see so many scared, emotional, the sky is falling posts from such a well educated bunch of Celtics fans.

I understand the team isn’t playing as well as we might like them to be, or up to the potential they showed the first two weeks of the season – but to suggest that Atlanta, Chicago (a team the Celtics blew out by 28 points) or Orlando (a team the Celtics played terribly against for 3.5 quarters and still only lost by a few) are “clearly ahead” of the Celtics is so short sighted. Milwaukee is ahead of the Celtics in the Eastern Conference standings – does anyone seriously think they will be there in May?

Clearly the Celtics have some issues to work out, but honestly this constant questioning of motivation and thinking that the coaching staff is just sitting there and letting it happen without taking corrective action is just silly. Of course Doc is addressing this in practice everyday….of course KG, Ray and Pierce are all aware of the lack of execution.

Lets take a step back here people, the team is 10-4 with a .714 winning percentage. If they played this way the entire season, they would finish 58-23 and be in the 3rd or 4th position in the East. Is that ideal? No. But the world isn’t coming to an end, honestly.

I am not happy with the execution, I am not happy with the help defense and rotations, and I think the team badly needs a real back up Point Guard to push tempo when Rondo is out. But in the end, they have too much talent to not turn things around.

MRKleen: The back up point guard could have and should have been addressed by Danny Boy in the off season signing of either Andre Miller or Raymond Felton. Instead Portland signed Miller and Felton re-upped with the Bobcats!-MD.

mrkleen09 wrote:I am really disappointed to see so many scared, emotional, the sky is falling posts from such a well educated bunch of Celtics fans.

I understand the team isn’t playing as well as we might like them to be, or up to the potential they showed the first two weeks of the season – but to suggest that Atlanta, Chicago (a team the Celtics blew out by 28 points) or Orlando (a team the Celtics played terribly against for 3.5 quarters and still only lost by a few) are “clearly ahead” of the Celtics is so short sighted. Milwaukee is ahead of the Celtics in the Eastern Conference standings – does anyone seriously think they will be there in May?

Clearly the Celtics have some issues to work out, but honestly this constant questioning of motivation and thinking that the coaching staff is just sitting there and letting it happen without taking corrective action is just silly. Of course Doc is addressing this in practice everyday….of course KG, Ray and Pierce are all aware of the lack of execution.

Lets take a step back here people, the team is 10-4 with a .714 winning percentage. If they played this way the entire season, they would finish 58-23 and be in the 3rd or 4th position in the East. Is that ideal? No. But the world isn’t coming to an end, honestly.

I am not happy with the execution, I am not happy with the help defense and rotations, and I think the team badly needs a real back up Point Guard to push tempo when Rondo is out. But in the end, they have too much talent to not turn things around.

No hysteria here but real concern.

The teams that the C's have beaten have a combined winning percentage of 35%. The teams that have beaten the C's have a combined winning percentage of 71%. The C's have beaten no team that was playing well at tip off time.

Considering the amount of talent assembled here, there appear to be serious chemistry problems at this time that merit our full attention.

GC

mrkleen09 wrote:I am really disappointed to see so many scared, emotional, the sky is falling posts from such a well educated bunch of Celtics fans.
I understand the team isn’t playing as well as we might like them to be, or up to the potential they showed the first two weeks of the season...
Clearly the Celtics have some issues to work out, but honestly this constant questioning of motivation and thinking that the coaching staff is just sitting there and letting it happen without taking corrective action is just silly. Of course Doc is addressing this in practice everyday….of course KG, Ray and Pierce are all aware of the lack of execution.

Lets take a step back here people, the team is 10-4 with a .714 winning percentage. If they played this way the entire season, they would finish 58-23 and be in the 3rd or 4th position in the East. Is that ideal? No. But the world isn’t coming to an end, honestly.
I am not happy with the execution, I am not happy with the help defense and rotations, and I think the team badly needs a real back up Point Guard to push tempo when Rondo is out. But in the end, they have too much talent to not turn things around.

the post from SD that started this doesn't seem to me to be either emotional or scared, MrKleen. what i see is a realistic and objective view about what's happening on the floor, and i agree substantively with the points made. i don't think the sky is falling - i DO think there are serious problems for both players and coaching staff to address, and little sign that they are getting addressed.
When GC says "The teams that the C's have beaten have a combined winning percentage of 35%. The teams that have beaten the C's have a combined winning percentage of 71%. The C's have beaten no team that was playing well at tip off time...", that's an objective look at what we're playing like, not some emotional, distorted, thoughtless negativity.
So i'm not sure where you're coming from - this isn't a wave-your-pom-poms type of crowd. Nothing wrong with naming what you see. I see a team that needs different play from Sheed offensively (which unfortunately is not likely to happen this millenium [smile]), needs solid play from a healthy KG both inside and out, and at both ends (and health doesn't seem to quite be there), needs Ray to be Ray-Ray the shooter, needs (i agree) young legs thrown into the mix which in turn means a shift in perspective from the coaching staff (also a milleniium-shaking event). My 2 cents ... happy posting !

Michael from Denver

I understand the point of any message board is this very thing. To sit and analyze a subject to death, often saying things as a means to get them out, to bounce them off other like minded fans.

If this was a team that did not have the means and the tools to right the ship, I think I would be a bit more concerned. But when Rondo decides to play hard on every possession, when KG gets back to full health, when Ray’s shot starts to fall, when Sheed and Daniels and Williams all learn the defensive rotations better (and you know all of these things have a very high likelihood of occurring), the team will be just fine.

And remember, Glen Davis will be back soon…chipping in 10 to 12 points and 7 rebounds a game….taking a few more charges, banging other teams bigs. Even with making no other fixes, you add him to the line up and they certainly win one of the games they have lost, maybe two.

Glen Davis will help assuming his game will pick up at the level he left off at last Spring during the Orlando series. He is by no means the saving grace. It is apparent problems that run much deeper having to do with age and chemistry are at the root of the Celtics problems that have had recent manifestation-MD.

Mrkleen,

Where do you see Davis fitting in upon his return. Statistically, you're right; but he'll have to get the minutes (and be in a position to succeed) to score and rebound as before. With Williams playing as well as he is, will he just be pushed off to the pine to make way for Glen? Will they give Glen a shot (as I'm hoping) at the "3" position?

What's your thinking?

Sam

Why not package Baby, Williams, Allen and a draft choice for Bosh. Toranto will get nothing come next year.

112288

112288: Why not try to rob 'em? Make it T. Allen, Scal, a draft choice, and a future post in Pagliuca's cabinet when he runs for the White House!-(LOL)-MD.

I think this is going to be the low point of the whole season. As bad as we are playing we have been in every single game and could have won all of them.

I'd like to see the team suit up and play Lue or give Lester a real chance.

MDCelticsFan wrote:Glen Davis will help assuming his game will pick up at the level he left off at last Spring during the Orlando series. He is by no means the saving grace. It is apparent problems that run much deeper having to do with age and chemistry are at the root of the Celtics problems that have had recent manifestation-MD.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree MD.

Davis was playing very good ball in the pre-season as well…it isnt like he hasn’t done anything since last June. He came into camp in very good shape, and had some rock solid games during the pre-season. He will absolutely be a major addition to the team, and account for a +3 or +4 during the course of many games. That alone puts this team back in the mix – even while they continue to work on their defensive and offensive movement issues.

Now, I might buy the old legs argument, but it is too soon to make that one IMO. And as for the chemistry one, I don’t see that it is possible to go into Cleveland on opening night on national tv and beat them, and subsequently blow out the Bulls and Sixers – and be in the game till the end with Orlando and Phoenix and have some kind of deep rooted chemistry issues. Guess we will have to wait and see on that one.

Sam wrote:Mrkleen,

Where do you see Davis fitting in upon his return. Statistically, you're right; but he'll have to get the minutes (and be in a position to succeed) to score and rebound as before. With Williams playing as well as he is, will he just be pushed off to the pine to make way for Glen? Will they give Glen a shot (as I'm hoping) at the "3" position?

What's your thinking?

Sam

Sam, I think Davis will need to earn back those minutes back in practice, but I see no reason to think he will not. He was starting for this team in the playoffs and playing at a very high level, and then came to camp in better shape and more focused.

I don’t see him being able to cover most small forwards – but depending on match ups, I think he is a very capable defender and scorer.

Doc is all about matchups, so I think against some teams, Davis gets the call instead of Williams – but again, I think there is room for both of them in the rotation. Having too m any guys playing well is a problem that any team would like to have.

In the end, I am not suggesting that Glen is a “saving grace” as MD stated…but I don’t think a 10-4 team needs a saving grace. They need more consistent effort, a few less 3 pointers, better defensive rotations, and a few more shots to fall their way.

Kleen

We are stinking up the joint on O but again we have been in every game. To me that says when we start to score we are going to see some ten point margins.

This team has as many weapons on O as anyone and I think they will figure it out.

PP 's knee was tweaked and he had no lift but he didnt whine.

I am starting to wonder if it aint conditioning. I KNOW it is on KG I see him grabbing his shorts but I think the rest of the guys may be playing their way into shape too...other than Ray who is always in shape.

Jeb

If you were to give a grade A, B, C, D, or F (can use +- too)
to the players and Doc now what would you give them for there overall play to date? I'd use INC on Hudson and Giddins due to lack of minutes.

I think we'd have a bunch of C's with a couple of B's and maybe a D in there too. Might be inclined to give my only A to Williams right now.

beat

Beat

Great question! Doc = C, PP=B, KG= A for effort C for results, Perk B

Rondo B-, Ray Allen=B-, Sheed=D+, Shelden W=A, Quis=B+, Lester=C, Scal=B-, JR Giddens=C, Eddie H=D

Now this is for the season and not just this damned ol awful slump.

Good question Beat. To this point, here is my opinion.

Perk – A
KG – B
Pierce – B
Ray – D
Rondo – C

Sheed – C
Daniels – B
Williams – A+
House – C
Scal – B

Hudson, Giddens – Inc.
Davis - F

Doc – C
Tibs – C
DA – A (did great work over the summer)

Beat: Wow WEE I wish you were my teacher in high school. I could have gone to the beach for the Summer instead of Summer School. You grade on a VERY lenient curve!-MD.

MD

I really only graded Williams with an A

but as to the others here goes (based on the season) and also based on what I perceive there ability should be vs what they have done to date.
Overall preformance.

Pierce......B
Perk ........B+
Garnett....B-
Rondo......C+
R. Allen........C-
Williams...A
Sheed.....C-
Daniels....B+
House.....C
Scal.........B
Davis is in the corner on the stool with the dunce cap on...F
Hudson+ Giddins INC
Doc.......C+

In the booth

Tommy......A
Mike..........A
considering what they have had to work with so far usually keep a game intertaining.