Gerald Wallace Taking Lessened Role With Celtics As 'Slap In The Face'

sam wrote:Mrkleen,

Despite what I've said about Wallace, if there were a way for the Celtics to part with his contract, I'd be all for it.  Not one syllable of what I have said suggests I think he's part of the long-term solution in Boston.  But he's on this team; the likelihood is that he'll be here for a while unless they buy him out; and he's criticizing this team.  I'm simply trying to suggest how his mind is working when he makes these unfortunate comments.

If you really want to disagree with me, how about reflecting on some of the things I've said about how his mind is working on this matter?  That's been my primary interest in posting on this thread.

As for Sully and Bass being better defenders, we disagree.  I can live with that.  And, even if he were only the fourth best defender on the team, that would be pretty useful.

Sam

I think I did address your comments on what Wallace was thinking - in saying that his frustration is understandable and may well be a direct result of him trying to help Jeff Green, and Wallace maybe feeling that Green isnt giving a consistent effort. I also talked about this being a common issue with great players - getting frustrated that their teammates or players dont live up to the effort they put forth on a consistent basis.

But with age, should also come maturity. Wallace is playing 20+ mpg on a young team - that is more than. He didnt ask to come here, he didnt ask to be part of a rebuilding project, but he is being paid handsomely and should grow up and roll with the punches.

sam wrote:Mrkleen,

My points were never about the relative abilities of either Wallace or Green or whether Wallace was justified in speaking out the way he has.  As I hope I clearly stated, I was simply trying to get into the mind of Gerald Green.  I've always felt that one could understand the reason for something without having to like it.

But, since you mentioned it, while everyone seems convinced that Wallace's skills have clearly deteriorated, I haven't seen that big a dip.  His scoring average per minute is just about one-third of his career stat, but that's because he's taking only one-third as many shots in the Celtics scheme of things.  His field goal percentage with the Celts is 53%, which is 6 percentage points ahead of his career average.

But scoring isn't expected to be the focal point of Wallace's value.  I asked in a recent thread who, other than Avery Bradley, is currently a better defender on the Celtics team than Wallace.  I received no responses (at least last time I checked).  Right out of the box this season, there were all sorts of posts on this board about how he was a team leader.  Of course, that was before his verbal blasts.  But it seems to me that the level of his contributions has remained fairly consistent throughout the season.  Last night, I think I called him a whirling dervish on defense, and he was my co-MVP for the Celtics along with Olynyk.  And last night against the Lakers was Exhibit A that the Celtics desperately need all the defense they can get.

So, even if my main intent in posting on this thread was solely to try to fathom Wallace's thinking and NOT to justify his outbursts, I think I could make a case for the fact that he's (1) the most energized bunny on this team and (2) the level of his play has not necessarily deteriorated as much as many people believe.

Sam

Sam I just found this thread late, totally agree on your points, Wallace is definitely the best defensive player we have after AB, his defense looks great to me and interesting point that he might feel as frustrated as we do watching Mr Consistent night in and night out underachieve....if we gave Wallace Greens minutes I don't think we'd be any worse.

Sam, I disagree with your comments about Wallace. I see him take plenty plays off. I see him fall asleep on defense. I see him fall asleep on offense. He flips the ball at the rim at the free throw line (yes, I think he's bad there because he either does not care or he wants to intentionally miss shots). His hustle is often for plays he doesn't think he can get or shouldn't think he could get, false hustle. Like yesterdays play where he knocked the pass out of bounds that was going to the man he was guarding. Most players in the NBA would have been able to take that lazy pass the other way. IMO, he's the worse player on this team. I would rather see Wallace on the bench or at home and give a player like Chris Johnson the opportunity or play some with Bass guarding the spot and have KO and another big in there.

As for Green, it's frustrating because he has the potential to perform as an offensive scorer. He just does not seem to have the mentality to play that way on offense. Maybe with Rondo returning we'll see Green put into situations where he can score. Right now, my hope is that he can fill Ray Allen's scoring role, putting up points based on Rondo's actions. Defensively, Green does a fine job. I wish he was more physical but he keeps his opponents in front of him (unlike Wallace). I don't have any complaints about his effort on that end (unlike Wallace).

Kyle,

Agree about Green, not about Wallace. And so it goes.

Sam

I know this thread is about Wallace, but we seem to also be talking about Green as well. Green is a 3rd option on a good team. We can only make excuses for him for so long. Here are most of them:

1. He just got traded from the Thunder, he hasn't had time to adjust, wait till next year.
2. He just had heart surgery, he hasn't had time to get over it yet. (BTW- I had basically the same procedure done on my heart and I was back activeally very quick. me, the only thing that me might have been scared of was taking a charge in the chest or someone elbowing him there)
3. Paul Pierce is holding him back. He just needs time.
4. He is still ??? many months from heart surgery. (yes I have even heard this one recently)
5. Wait until Rondo gets back and then Green will play.

I like Green but I still say he is a 3rd option. He doesn't want to be the man. If he could help us get a real good all star via trade I am all for it.

Tardust,

Overall, I agree that Green is best suited to be a complementary player or, as you say, a third option. I suppose I even agree that Boston should do a deal if they get a real good all-star out of it, since that is obviously an upgrade for Boston. But a championship team needs A) stars; B) complementary stars; and C) role players, and I don't think they should dump Green just because he's B and not A.

I'm one of those who gives him slack because of the heart procedure. I'm glad you bounced back quickly from your procedure, but the activity that we do just doesn't compare to what an NBA player does. In fact, he has bounced back from the surgery and is able to perform at a very high level, but even if it impacts him only 3-5% or only impacts him to that degree some of the time, that can be the difference between a really good game and an okay game because the guys he's going against are really, really good every night. This is only his second season back after the surgery, and I remember Green saying last year that it still affected him some nights when he didn't have the same energy level and that his doctors told him that was to be expected.

I also subscribe to the Rondo theory, that having a healthy Rondo could help Green substantially. We may not see this until next season or only in flashes this season, but I don't see how it's unreasonable to think having an all-star point guard out will impact the performance of other players, especially one like Green who doesn't create his own shot that much.

I think the biggest problem here is that, with the departure of Pierce and Garnett, people expected Green to play at an all-star level -- 18-20 points (or more), 8-10 rebounds, a few assists, a couple of steals. But as you point out, that's not really who Jeff Green is; he's a third option. So how is it fair to be disappointed in his play when the standard he's being measured against is being an all-star?

Just because he's a very good third option doesn't mean that those of us not wanting to ship him out on the next bus are making excuses for him. Pointing out the potentially lingering impact of his surgery and the impact of Rondo's absence is just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Hes a very good third option with the athletic ability and skill set to be so much more, thats the frustration with Green, he has a jump hook and post up game, he can play the 4 for stretches, he should be able to play bully ball with most 3's. He can sky for dunks and athletic finishes with his height and wingspan and quickness that Paul Pierce wishes he could have done. We've seen him chase down from behind for a swat/block, he seems to have a close enough game to Paul George and Rudy Gay, but has so many 8-12 point games in a row....when he is in beast mode, very rare lately, we've seen him torch Lebron. He has enough ability to create on his own even without Rondo, 18 pg should be easy. Pierce could avg 25 in his sleep, why can't this athletic specimen give us 18?

In defense of Jeff Green, he is a top 10 scorer among all small forwards in the NBA and he is near the bottom among that group in terms of shot attempts.

In defense of Jeff Green he is 11th among small forwards in blocks

In defense of Jeff green he is 15th in rebounding among small forwards and if his upward trend continues (6.2 RPG month of Jan) he would be a top 10 rebounder among small forwards.

If he shoots the ball more he will score more.  If the offense led by Rondo gets him the ball in better scoring situations he will score more.

Jeff Green is a very productive Player at SF.  We would like to see him score more buckets.  

Do we really want to trade a top 10 scorer at the 3 spot?  Do we want to trade a strong rebounder and defender at the 3 spot?

Someone please tell me how our top scorer is the 3rd option?

That is simply not a true. On THIS team he is our #1 guy.

Anybody out there have a better alternative to Jeff Green?  Can we make a trade for a better SF?  

Reality checkup

dboss

To continue what Outside said, Jeff Green has been given some unrealistic expectations.

I've been saying for a while that he's essentially a role player...


KJ

Dboss, good use of statistics, and excellent logic supporting them. To answer your question on how our best scoring player could be the third option, the answer is that there should be two more offensively polished and aggressive scorers in the #1 and 2 options.

Sam