Danny Ainge Says Celtics In A Better Position Now Than Summer, 2007

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2014/03/danny-ainge-says-celtics-better-position-now-acquiring-kevin-garnett-ray-allen/



Danny Ainge Says Celtics in a Better Position Now Than Before Acquiring Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen

The Boston Celtics haven’t been in rebuilding mode since the 2006-2007 campaign, a season before Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen joined Paul Pierce to form a title-winning Big Three. In an address to season ticket holders, GM Danny Ainge assured the fan base that the team is now even better positioned to return to the top. Per the Boston Globe:

“I think we’re in a better position,” Ainge said in a video discussion live-streamed to Celtics’ season ticket-holders earlier this week. “I think it’s similar, though. We did have some good young players in Al Jefferson, who was a wanted commodity around the league. We were able to get Kevin Garnett for Al Jefferson [and] he was a big part of that.

“We have a lot of draft picks . . . I think our positioning is better.”

Celtics president Rich Gotham, who also participated in the discussion, sided with Ainge.

“We’ve got 10 first-round draft picks over the next five years,” Gotham said. “We’ve created enough salary-cap space that we can be opportunistic when opportunities present themselves, either at trading deadlines or when the draft comes up, and we feel like we’ve developed our young players this year.

“So when we gauge our season, that’s how I’m gauging it. I think we’ve executed well [with] those three things. I think we’re in a better place than we were last year even though the win-loss record doesn’t necessarily reflect that.”

The team is preparing for the draft and free agency, Ainge said. “At that same time, once our season ends, the trading period opens up again,” he added. “The three D’s — development, deals and draft — are how we build our team.”

As always, the question is whether Boston is an attractive destination for free agents who might instead choose, say, Miami or Los Angeles.

“If temperature and superficiality are the measures, no, we don’t compete well,” Gotham said. “But if coming to an organization that has got a great winning tradition and a proven track record of winning recently is attractive, then I do think we can attract players.

“I do think that what we have here is different than what other organizations [have]. When you see Kevin and Paul come back like they did this year and see the treatment they received from the fans and how special it was for them to have been part of the Celtics family, part of the Boston sports landscape, those guys understand what that meant.”

Celtics co-owner Wyc Grousbeck recently said that there would be “fireworks” this summer with regards to potential moves the team could make.

“That’s why we love Wyc,” Ainge said. “He’s a risk-taker. He’s not afraid. And he’s not afraid to spend the money and he’s not afraid to take chances. We sell to him, but we have to do a good job of selling him sometimes.”



bob
MY NOTE: Selling tickets. Well, the truth is we do have more good players available to trade AND we have A LOT more draft picks AND we have cap flexibility.


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It seems obvious that the Celtics are better positioned now than in 2007.  And, if Danny's selling tickets, he's doing so at the expense of putting added pressure on himself to make the most of those assets.

Sam

With all due respect to Danny Ainge, i think he's over-selling it a little.

Yes, we have the assortment of picks.  Back then, however, we had at least one good pick that turned out to be Jeff Green.  Our main feature was a proven, and apparently still developing into something grand, young forward to trade in Al Jefferson. Some of the complimentary pieces that went with Jefferson were at least equal to what we carry now as well.

I'm not sure our picks really put us in all that much better shape.  The draft can be a crap-shoot and not all of the picks are selections that are locked in.  If Rondo is not on the table, our one fairly valuable trading chip is Jeff Green, whose value might be slightly less than it was as a prized draft pick.

I think we're looking good, better in a year or so with money to spend, but not as good as you tell a group of season ticket holders whom you desperately need to keep happy.  You need to make it sound good for them; sometimes better than it actually is.  This is business and you have to keep the customer content, or at least satisfied that the new model will arrive soon and it's worth making the deposit now. It is, after all, part of the job and quite normal and expected.

It's going to be OK, alright, Danny.  Yes, I truly believe that.  And, possibly, just a few seasons down the road.  But I know a sales pitch when I hear one.  Better shape than the summer of '07? You're going to have to throw in the premium stereo and the V-rated tires before I'll buy this one.

NY Celt,

First round picks are an even greater commodity now than they were back then, considering the changes the NBA has made to the CBA and salary cap implications. And Ainge has enough of them to build an entirely new team (if he wanted to).

Having an elite PG, a two-way SG, a budding, yet viable PF, and a solid SF is definitely a great place to start. Throw in the expiring contracts over the next few seasons. I'd say Ainge is at least as well positioned as back then, if not more.



KJ

well maybe all that chatter about Kevin Love turns out to have something behind it.

Love and Deng from Minny
for
Green, Sully, Bogans non guaranteed salary our lotto pick and a future pick.

money is about the same, so the cap space is still around $51M after the trade.

bass to Charlotte

for Kidd-Gilchrist

Bass is expiring and Kidd -Gilchrist's deal has a team option.

still room to sign starting center and we have the #16-18 pick for depth.

lets say Gortat at $8M
Balyess back at $3M

rookie......Harris or Hood.

Roster:

Gortat
Fav
Deng
Love
KO
Anthony
Kidd-Gilchrist
Wallace
Hood
Bradley ($7M)
JOhnson
Bayless
Rondo
Pressey

if I am adding right we're about at the luxury tax line there or $70M.

k_j_88 wrote:NY Celt,

First round picks are an even greater commodity now than they were back then, considering the changes the NBA has made to the CBA and salary cap implications. And Ainge has enough of them to build an entirely new team (if he wanted to).

Having an elite PG, a two-way SG, a budding, yet viable PF, and a solid SF is definitely a great place to start. Throw in the expiring contracts over the next few seasons. I'd say Ainge is at least as well positioned as back then, if not more.



KJ

I don't know KJ.  The 06-07 roster going into the end of the season included Paul Pierce, Al Jefferson, Tony Allen, Kendrick Perkins, Rajon Rondo, Delonte West, Leon Powe and Ryan Gomes as well as ending up with what turned out to be the 5th overall draft pick. I don't see anyone on our current roster nearly as strong as Pierce or Jefferson except for Rondo, and it's still too soon to say if we'll pick as high as 5.  I think we're in good shape but to say better than '07 is overstating it in my opinion.  We did also already have the 32nd pick (Gabe Pruitt) and got #35 (Glen Davis) with Ray Allen in trade for West and pick #5. Added kickers were we had more money to spend already, and owned and traded the large and expiring contract of Theo Ratliff.

I'm not critical of Danny being a good salesman, I'm just stating that he is good enough to sell ice cubes to an eskimo.  That doesn't make him unethical, far from it, and as a business professional I respect and prize his talent.  112288 may be better by the way...

Regards

NYCelt wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:NY Celt,

First round picks are an even greater commodity now than they were back then, considering the changes the NBA has made to the CBA and salary cap implications. And Ainge has enough of them to build an entirely new team (if he wanted to).

Having an elite PG, a two-way SG, a budding, yet viable PF, and a solid SF is definitely a great place to start. Throw in the expiring contracts over the next few seasons. I'd say Ainge is at least as well positioned as back then, if not more.



KJ

I don't know KJ.  The 06-07 roster going into the end of the season included Paul Pierce, Al Jefferson, Tony Allen, Kendrick Perkins, Rajon Rondo, Delonte West, Leon Powe and Ryan Gomes as well as ending up with what turned out to be the 5th overall draft pick. I don't see anyone on our current roster nearly as strong as Pierce or Jefferson except for Rondo, and it's still too soon to say if we'll pick as high as 5.  I think we're in good shape but to say better than '07 is overstating it in my opinion.  We did also already have the 32nd pick (Gabe Pruitt) and got #35 (Glen Davis) with Ray Allen in trade for West and pick #5.

I'm not critical of Danny being a good salesman, I'm just stating that he is good enough to sell ice cubes to an eskimo.  That doesn't make him unethical, far from it, and as a business professional I respect and prize his talent.  112288 may be better by the way...

Regards

NYCelt,

I find myself aligning with KJ on this.  Draft picks are more valuable in this CBA than in the last and and we have a s--tload more of them now.

I'm not sure Gabe Pruitt is a selling point for why 2006-7 was better.

Also, I think that by including the Ray Allen trade you are confusing the issue.  How can you talk about the greater talent the 2006-7 squad had over this one by including Delonte West and then mention Ray Allen bringing us Davis when West went west in that trade.  It's either/or.  If we have Allen and Davis then we don't have West, Wally and #5. And Big Baby was not a big factor that year, averaging less than 14mpg and only 4.5ppg.

We don't know if we'll have the #5 pick this year, yet, but it'll be close.  We have 2 more games against NBA juggernaut Philadelphia 76ers (a juggernaut, in this case, is like an astronaut except it's their own jugular they're shooting for and not the stars) and it will be hard to lose both of those.  If we win both, we could end up in 7th.  Still, #7 in this draft could be better than Corey Brewer, who was the #7 pick in 2007.

We have two very good PFs, Bass and Hump.  While I'm not eager to see either one go they have value to other teams, more (I have to believe) than Wally.  Is Wally, West and #5 pick less attractive than a Bass, Bayless and a #5-#7 pick?


bob


.

Bob,

It's not my intent to throw Ray Allen and that trade into the mix, I was just saying where #5 ended up going as an afterthought.

I think we also have to look at the comparison in the context of what was thought about players we had at that time as well as the present value of todays holdings.  I think Jefferson, Powe and Gomes were thought to be more valuable to a given team then than Bass and Hump are now.  Being younger they also had more long-term value and Powe and Gomes came in at a much lower price tag.

When Pruitt was drafted he was thought to be a solid PG behind Rondo, and one of the best available out of the NCAA draft.  Again demonstrating that draft picks, then and now, are an unknown.  I do like having the picks we do, they're just an unknown variable, and I think we had more players of value and more cash available in '07 compared to '14, giving the edge to 2007.

I didn't include Wally Z or Telfair (or the Kandi-man) in my earlier comparison for a reason!  I was talking about value and they didn't seem to qualify...

Regards

Ainge ended the 2006-07 season with one all nba player on the roster(Pierce) and added 2 all nba players(Allen and Garnet) before the start of the 2007-08 season. I will see it as a miracle if Ainge can duplicate that feat this off season. I think it will take a minimum of two years,more likely three years,before the Celtics will be in a position to make a serious challenge for a championship.

swish

Swish,

I believe Ainge could, this summer, actually surpass his feat of acquiring Allen and Garnett in 2007.  In addition to being able to trade for Garnett and Ray this off-season, he could also sign the third member of the Three Amigos as a free agent.  Danny would be run out of town by all but the most sentimental fans, but at least he would have surpassed his earlier feat.

Sam

Sam

Sure they could sign them but would these three over-the hill players turn the 2014-15 team into a serious contender?

swish

Then he could say that Garnett, Pierce and Allen are walking through that door and they aren't even old and gray..

Swish.  It was a joke.

Sam

Sam
I've been thinking about that for a while now and have been leaning toward the idea that you intended it as a joke. As my reasoning process slows down I'm giving some thought to the idea of going to a one day delay before responding to any posts. Thanks for confirming my thoughts.
swish

BobH,

Thanks for including Bass and Humphries, two valuable assets.

I suppose we could take the comparative approach here:

2007: Pierce, Jefferson, West, Rondo, Wally, Gomes, Perk, T. Allen, Powe

2014: Rondo, Green, Bradley, Sully, Hump, Bass, Bayless, and 9 first round picks over next 5 years.

Seems pretty closely matched.




KJ

k_j_88 wrote:BobH,

Thanks for including Bass and Humphries, two valuable assets.

I suppose we could take the comparative approach here:

2007: Pierce, Jefferson, West, Rondo, Wally, Gomes, Perk, T. Allen, Powe

2014: Rondo, Green, Bradley, Sully, Hump, Bass, Bayless, and 9 first round picks over next 5 years.

Seems pretty closely matched.




KJ

KJ,

You forgot Kelly.  As a #13 pick who has shown in the past month that he belongs in the NBA, he probably should be included in the baseline roster.

On the 2007 squad, we also had John Dillinger, er, I mean Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, Gerald Green (who, unlike now, was NOT a desired NBA player back then) and Wally Szerbiak.  Telfair was a locker room cancer because of the gun incident, Ratliff was an expiring contract, Gerald Green was a deer and Wally wasn't the same player once he no longer had KG.  Gomes was a nice player, a smart player and an overachiever, but not a real good player and undersized for a PF.

On the 2013 squad, in addition to the players you mentioned, we have Chris Johnson (who is showing us and GMs around the league something) and Vitor (6'11", 260# veteran centers have value, as a general rule and he's only going on 26).  I'm not going to include Babb and Pressey because they're bubble players that might not have any value to other GMs at this time, but CJ is showing himself to be a legit rotation player and Vitor's a center in a league with a scarcity of them.

Also, depending upon what happens with Philly next year, we will either have another, 10th, first round pick or two more 2nd rounders.

Roll all that together and I think we're in better shape now than on draft day of 2007.


bob


.

Hi,
I believe this topic was discussed quite extensively before.
IMO, Celtics 14 are better than Celtics 7. The main advantage is multiple picks that DA can use to find young talent or use to get a star or two.
OTOH, I'd rather compare Celtics 14 with Celtics 03 or 04.

AK

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I believe this topic was discussed quite extensively before.
IMO, Celtics 14 are better than Celtics 7. The main advantage is multiple picks that DA can use to find young talent or use to get a star or two.
OTOH, I'd rather compare Celtics 14 with Celtics 03 or 04.

AK

sinus,

This has been discussed, true, but as the season has gone along and we've had a chance to see what we've really got.

For example, when the season started:

1.  We all thought Jeff Green would explode this year.
2.  We didn't know what to expect from Sully after back surgery.
3.  We thought Kelly would be Dirk-lite after seeing him in summer league.
4.  We thought Wallace would suck and be a cancer and Hump was Mr. Kardashian.
5.  We thought the pitbulls would be a great back court until Rondo came back.  Bradley has turned out to be a scorer, Lee's gone and now we have to assess Bayless.
6.  We thought Jordan Crawford would be a horrible point guard, he wasn't, and now he's gone.
7.  We thought the best long-term player in the Brooklyn deal, the one that had a future with us, was MarShon Brooks.
8.  We didn't know Chris Johnson from Johnson & Johnson.
9.  We didn't know if Pressey could cut it (I still don't).

There's 9 differences, between then and now, addressing 12 different players.

You want to compare 03-04 because that was Danny's first year as GM?

Here's the roster in 02-03 (the roster he inherited):

42 Vin Baker C 6-11 232 November 23, 1971 9 University of Hartford
4 Tony Battie C 6-11 230 February 11, 1976 5 Texas Tech University
30 Mark Blount C 7-0 230 November 30, 1975 2 University of Pittsburgh
9 J.R. Bremer PG 6-2 185 September 19, 1980 R St. Bonaventure University
5 Kedrick Brown SF 6-7 222 March 18, 1981 1 Okaloosa-Walton Community College
11 Mark Bryant PF 6-9 245 April 25, 1965 14 Seton Hall University
12 Bimbo Coles PG 6-1 180 April 22, 1968 12 Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
7 Tony Delk PG 6-1 189 January 28, 1974 6 University of Kentucky
43 Grant Long PF 6-8 225 March 12, 1966 14 Eastern Michigan University
0 Walter McCarty SF 6-10 230 February 1, 1974 6 University of Kentucky
31 Mikki Moore C 6-11 225 November 4, 1975 4 University of Nebraska
34 Paul Pierce SG 6-6 230 October 13, 1977 4 University of Kansas
41 Bruno Sundov C 7-2 220 February 10, 1980 4
8 Antoine Walker PF 6-8 224 August 12, 1976 6 University of Kentucky
55 Eric Williams SF 6-8 220 July 17, 1972 7 Providence College
11 Shammond Williams PG 6-1 201 April 5, 1975 4 University of North Carolina
45 Ruben Wolkowyski PF 6-10 270 September 30, 1973 1


Now, here's the roster in 03-04 (after he had an opportunity to tinker with it over the summer, add a draft pick, etc):

7 Chucky Atkins PG 5-11 160 August 14, 1974 4 University of South Florida
42 Vin Baker PF 6-11 232 November 23, 1971 10 University of Hartford
11 Marcus Banks PG 6-2 200 November 19, 1981 R University of Nevada, Las Vegas
13 Dana Barros SG 5-11 163 April 13, 1967 13 Boston College
4 Tony Battie C 6-11 230 February 11, 1976 6 Texas Tech University
30 Mark Blount C 7-0 230 November 30, 1975 3 University of Pittsburgh
5 Kedrick Brown SF 6-7 222 March 18, 1981 2 Okaloosa-Walton Community College
12 Ricky Davis SF 6-6 195 September 23, 1979 5 University of Iowa
56 Brandon Hunter PF 6-7 260 November 24, 1980 R Ohio University
13 Mike James PG 6-2 188 June 23, 1975 2 Duquesne University
20 Jumaine Jones SG 6-8 218 February 10, 1979 4 University of Georgia
45 Raef LaFrentz C 6-11 240 May 29, 1976 5 University of Kansas
0 Walter McCarty PF 6-10 230 February 1, 1974 7 University of Kentucky
4 Chris Mihm C 7-0 265 July 16, 1979 3 University of Texas at Austin
43 Kendrick Perkins C 6-10 280 November 10, 1984 R
34 Paul Pierce SG 6-6 230 October 13, 1977 5 University of Kansas
5 Michael Stewart C 6-10 230 April 25, 1975 6 University of California
44 Jiri Welsch SG 6-7 208 January 27, 1980 1
55 Eric Williams SF 6-8 220 July 17, 1972 8 Providence College


I don't know how many draft picks were available to Danny in those years.

The team he inherited was mediocre (44-38).  The team he tweaked it into in 03-04 sucked worse (36-46).  So what?  This isn't like flipping a switch, sometimes you have to take a step back, by trading Antoine Walker for example, in order to take two steps forward.



bob


.

Bob,
My reason for comparing to 03/04 is, beside the new GM, as you summarized those teams were mediocre, sucked and going nowhere.

AK

If we lose most of our remaining games and the ping pong gods cooperate, we might be better off now than 2007. Rondo is poised for a good year, and imagine him directing Bradley, Green, Sully and Embiid down the court, or some other combination wrought by trading for the assets and good role players we have now. (Hey, I can dream, can't I?) Hawk

One thing (about the only thing) I haven't seen discussed in this thread is the key holdover leader.  In 2007, it was Paul Pierce.  In 2014, it's Rajon Rondo.  (Yes, I know Rondo was also around in 2007, but I believe Pierce was much more influential on the team than Rondo was back then.)

I personally feel more comfortable with Rondo being the key holdover player.  Better a point guard, who will have a direct influence on every other player on the floor, than a wing with iso tendencies.

Sam

That wing with iso creating his own shot abilities kicked ass on the medias best wing player in that years Finals. His iso skill separates him from many good wings of his generation that were borderline all stars that will never get a sniff of the HoF, like say a Shawn Marion or Ron Artest and he proved with the right talent he could also play team ball.

cowens/oldschool wrote:That wing with iso creating his own shot abilities kicked ass on the medias best wing player in that years Finals. His iso skill separates him from many good wings of his generation that were borderline all stars that will never get a sniff of the HoF, like say a Shawn Marion or Ron Artest and he proved with the right talent he could also play team ball.

Pierce was the captain, yes, and very well respected. But Rondo, as a PG, has a completely different impact. He runs the offense, and it's his job to make sure everyone is in a position to score, as opposed to having to be the team's volume shooter.

Also, while Pierce had a great finals, the Celtics overall had the better team.




KJ

Going into that Finals, we struggled to get there and LA breezed through the competition, thus we were underdogs by the media. The one match up we had the advantage over them was Pierce, they had nobody that could handle him, thus he could exploit them on the biggest stage and the one match up they supposedly had the edge was Kobe, but our overall team D shut him down.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Going into that Finals, we struggled to get there and LA breezed through the competition, thus we were underdogs by the media. The one match up we had the advantage over them was Pierce, they had nobody that could handle him, thus he could exploit them on the biggest stage and the one match up they supposedly had the edge was Kobe, but our overall team D shut him down.

The Lakers didn't have Bynum, so I think it could be argued that Perkins was the biggest advantage as a post defender and intimidating presence.


KJ