Re: Celtics Draft Workout Thread

by **KyleCleric** Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:15 am

I've a hard time saying pass on Randle. He's one of the few players in this draft with NBA ready skills. As a PF, he can score, defend, and rebound for the position, and do so well. Vonleh can rebound but isn't there with his other skills, but has the upside to potentially be a force at either big position. They need to clean up Randle's ankle, and he's expected to miss the summer league, but he should be ready in September. I have a hard time passing on a guy who has a good chance of being a top 10 power forward in this league very soon.

by **bobheckler** Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:46 am

Alex Kennedy: Walter Tavares is one of the most intriguing players in this draft. Executives are fascinated. Super raw, but he's 7'3 with a 7'9 wingspan. Twitter @AlexKennedyNBA

bob
MY NOTE: Danny had him in for a workout on Wednesday.

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by **Sam** Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:24 pm

Kyle,

The main reason I'm interested in Vonleh is that he has the potential to grow into a dominating center. I don't want just another PF like Randolph, no matter how good he is. At least not unless the Celtics have a center intimidator in the fold by the time of the draft. (Maybe it's because, the few times I saw him play, he looked no more than ordinary against opposing college defenses).)

Sam

by **bobheckler** Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:17 pm

http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2014/06/marcus_smart_ok_with_changes

Marcus Smart OK with changes

SOMETHING TO PROVE: Marcus Smart drew plenty of attention during his two years at Oklahoma State.

Saturday, June 14, 2014
By: Steve Bulpett

WALTHAM — Marcus Smart wouldn’t mind a bit being drafted by the Celtics with the No. 6 overall pick later this month.

It wouldn’t bother him to come to a team with an established All-Star point guard — a team for which he worked out yesterday — and it wouldn’t faze him to move to the Northeast after growing up in Texas and playing at Oklahoma State. Heck, he’d even be able to deal with the change to his name that would come with living in these parts.

Name change?

“Mah-kis Smaht,” he repeated through a laugh after being told the Bostonian translation of his given name. “Mah-kis Smaht.”

Nickname: “Wickid.”

Celtics assistant coach Waltah McCahty went through a similar transformation when he was traded here in 1997. “But I’d already played for Rick Pitino and Jim O’Brien, and they never said my name right,” he said. “I was used to it.”

Smart, meanwhile, is used to being a star on whatever team he’s graced. He went from a McDonald’s All-America in high school to the U.S. Basketball Writers’ freshman of the year at Oklahoma State. Smart then resisted the urge to be a one-and-done, coming back to lead the Cowboys in what was his sophomore and final season in college.

But if he’s picked by the Celts and Rajon Rondo isn’t traded, the rugged 6-foot-4 point guard will most likely be starting games on the pine. According to Smart, no worries.

“Not at all,” he said. “Rondo’s one of the greatest point guards to ever play this game, and if I’m fortunate enough that Boston picks me and that means I have to sit on the bench, that’s an honor to learn from one of the greatest point guards.

“He’s been playing it for a while. He’s a veteran. He knows what he’s doing, and, like I said, he’s one of the best to play this game, so it’d be an honor to play behind him.”

As do others, Smart sees similarities with his game and Rondo’s.

“Oh, definitely,” he said. “Everybody knows Rondo’s a fighter and playing defense he’s a guy you do not want to play against if you’re an offensive player. He harasses the ball. He’s a pest, as the people like to say. He’s kind of what I am, you know? Especially at my size — 6-4 — and I can move very well for my size and my length. It causes problems for my opponent.

“The guy just makes winning plays on both ends. He’s not one of the best shooters, but he can still affect the game in many ways. I’m not one of the better shooters; everybody knows that. I’m working on it, but I can still affect the game in many ways.”

Smart’s own reputation as a “fighter” was burnished this past February when he shoved an overly mouthy Texas Tech fan during a loss in Lubbock. He was suspended three games and apologized for his part in the incident that was at least as regrettable from the other side of the equation if not more.

“Surprisingly, not many teams have asked me about it,” said Smart, still sweating from the end-of-session conditioning test at the Celtics’ facility. “They kind of just understand it’s the competitiveness in you, and just talking to me and understanding that I know that I learned my lesson from it. They just want to really know who I am and get a little deeper into my background.”

In the Lubbock affair, it was a fan getting to Smart. Usually he’s the one getting under a foe’s epidermis.

“I guess you can say that,” he said. “If it happens, it happens. They say the game of basketball is 80 percent mental or something like that, so if I can get under my opponent’s skin before a game even starts or before a play starts, then I’ve already won that match.”

Smart was after a different kind of win yesterday as he auditioned with a strong group of potential draftees. He had some things to prove.

“That I can do a lot more than what people thought I could,” he said. “You know, I’m showing that my shot is improving, and I can knock down shots consistently.

“I just came out and competed. You know, everybody knew what kind of competitor I was, but for those on this coaching staff that probably didn’t really know for a fact for sure, I just came out and proved that even more and just proved that I can play at the next level.”

Smart has two more workouts for lottery teams before sitting back and letting the process run its course. You won’t find him refreshing his browser to check the latest mock draft machinations.

“It all comes down to June 26,” he said of draft night. “You don’t know what’s going to happen. We’ve seen a lot of strange things happen in the draft. People trade. People trade up. People trade down. You never know where you’re going to go.”

That’s a pretty healthy way of looking at things. Smaht even.

bob
MY NOTE: If he's drafted by the Celtics he is either gone or Bradley's gone or Pressey's gone (or maybe Bayless). Obviously, if any of them are gone it's because someone is incoming and so that might not be a bad thing. If Smaht is the one who sticks around, I'm not averse, depending upon who is coming in (e.g. if Bass or Hump and Bradley go to Minny as part of a deal for Love or Bass and Bradley to Houston for Asik).

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by **kdp59** Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:41 pm

a point guard who won't be playing the point

or a 2 guard that can't shot well.

not at #6 for me.

by **Sam** Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:06 pm

Agreed, kdp. I've tried to maintain an interest in Smart because NYCelt thinks so much of him and I trust NYCelt's judgment. But, plain and simply, the Celtics need tall guys more than short guys. Even if he is gifted with the knowledge of how to make the very best of his abilities, those abilities just aren't a priority in my book.

If NYCelt reads this, are you a fan of Smart because of Smart himself, or are you a fan of Smart because of your vision of Smart as a Celtic?

Sam

by **worcester** Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:40 pm

He's 6'2" and listed as 6'4". Short is not smart for a SG, and we already have one of those. For the zillionth time, we need a center and an outside shooter. Smart is neither.

by **KyleCleric** Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:25 pm

sam wrote:Kyle,

The main reason I'm interested in Vonleh is that he has the potential to grow into a dominating center. I don't want just another PF like Randolph, no matter how good he is. At least not unless the Celtics have a center intimidator in the fold by the time of the draft. (Maybe it's because, the few times I saw him play, he looked no more than ordinary against opposing college defenses).)

Sam

I get that. I'd be happy if Vonleh was the pick. The upside is tremendous with Vonleh and at worse, he'll be a decent defensive PF who can rebound. With Randle, you get a player who is likely a hit, one that makes an impact quickly. I did see a lot of Randle during the season, at times even struggle, but he always competed even when he was having difficulty. He has the mentality to be a scorer at this next level, the physicality and toughness at the basket. It was impressive his ability to get the ball in the hoop on contested shots around the paint. He's the kind of player you really want for an offense because he'll get to the hoop, cause defensive fouls, help set the tone of a game on that end. I don't expect Randle to fall to us but if he did, he's my pick and I just try to use other resources to get that center to play next to him. Maybe in terms of skills, he is comparable to Randolph but from all indications, Randle is a great teammate and he seems like much better at attacking the rim.

by **Sam** Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:56 pm

The Celtics have trying to use a variety of resources to get a center, and they haven't really had one since Perk. To expend what's arguably their top resource right now (#6) without having that center seems wasteful to me.

Sam

by **bobheckler** Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:33 am

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2014/06/marcus_smart_stands_out_in_celtics_workout.html

Marcus Smart Stands Out in Celtics Workout
Brian Robb
@CelticsHub
Boston.com Correspondent
JUNE 13, 2014 6:46 PM

Brian Robb has covered the Celtics and the NBA since the 2008-09 season. His work has appeared on NBA.com, CelticsHub.com, ESPN.com, and CBSBoston.com.

WALTHAM – Marcus Smart likes a challenge and that’s exactly what he faced Friday as he worked out against top guard prospects from around the country in front of the Celtics’ coaching staff and front office.

The stacked workout group featured Michigan's Nik Stauskas, Michigan State's Gary Harris, Missouri's Jordan Clarkson UCLA's Zach LaVine, and Louisiana-Lafayette's Elfrid Payton along with Smart.

As the top-ranked prospect in this year's draft field, Smart embraced the opportunity to match up with top-flight competition, a departure from other lottery prospects like Julius Randle who took part in a solo workout Friday morning for Boston.

“I told my agent, Lee Melchionni, you see all these guys dodging,” Smart explained. “My biggest attribute, to me, I’m a competitor. I show my best skills when the game’s on the line, when somebody’s guarding me, and there’s competition."

Smart continued: “Whoever you put in front of me, I’m not going to back down. I’ve never backed down from a challenge. That’s not me. That’s not what my makeup is. In a sense, it’s kind of showing the teams that it doesn’t matter [who I face]. I’m supposed to be ranked one of the top guards here, but I’m still playing against guys that’s lower [ranked] than me that might have a chance – if they do this, if they do that – to move up in the rankings. But that doesn’t scare me because of who I am.”

It’s unclear at this point just how much of a fit Smart could be for the Celtics, if the team selected him with the sixth overall pick. Avery Bradley and Jerryd Bayless enter the offseason as free agents but Rajon Rondo remains in place as the team’s leader and point guard. Smart indicated today he would have no problem playing second fiddle to Rondo in the backcourt.

“Rondo’s one of the greatest point guards to ever play this game,” Smart said. “If I’m fortunate enough and Boston picks me, and that means I have to sit on the bench (behind) Rondo, that’s an honor to learn from one of the greatest point guards in that position. Especially with me playing the point guard position, he’s been playing it for a while…It would be an honor.”

After the workout, Brad Stevens had nothing but complimentary things to say about the former Oklahoma State star rising to the challenge against a tough field.

“I thought he was good. I thought he was physical,” Stevens continued. “I thought he was a leader. I thought he shot the ball well in drills. I think that clearly, he’s got a way about him that people follow. He is a very tough guy and competed the whole time. My expectations for him were high from that regard, but he certainly met them.”

DRAFT WORKOUT ODDS AND ENDS

A few leftover items of interest following the guard workout:

--After witnessing two kinds of workouts on the day, Stevens was asked about whether he had a preference between watching solo workouts compared to group ones. "As a guy in the workout that’s doing the workout that doesn’t get to see quite as many games, I’m just trying to see as many guys as possible, period, whether they’re on the court by themselves or 3-on-3," said Stevens.

--Payton told reporters he is expected to be drafted anywhere from the 7-20 range in the first round. His stock has risen on many draft boards after his recent workouts.

--Stevens gave his two cents on the Spurs’ domination of the NBA Finals during the past two games, making a unique analogy to state his point. "I saw somebody say that playing the Spurs is like playing chess against a computer," Stevens said. "They’re such a machine right now. But you’ve seen the Heat turn it up a notch to where they’re untouchable and both those teams are absolutely playing at a high level. You can have a feel for them, but that doesn’t mean you can do anything about it. Doesn’t mean you can stop them."

--The Celtics are tentatively planning to have their next workouts with prospects on Monday and Thursday of next week.

bob

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by **bobheckler** Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:57 am

6/16/14 workout roster:

Shabazz Napier, Keith Appling, Dave Dudzinski, Jermaine Marshall, Markel Starks and Tyler Stone.

Getting down to the bitter dregs now, I think.

bob

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by **NYCelt** Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:23 pm

sam wrote:Agreed, kdp. I've tried to maintain an interest in Smart because NYCelt thinks so much of him and I trust NYCelt's judgment. But, plain and simply, the Celtics need tall guys more than short guys. Even if he is gifted with the knowledge of how to make the very best of his abilities, those abilities just aren't a priority in my book.

If NYCelt reads this, are you a fan of Smart because of Smart himself, or are you a fan of Smart because of your vision of Smart as a Celtic?

Sam

Sam,

Just stumbled over this; sorry didn't catch the question earlier.

I think taking Smart might be smart (wasn't going to use "wise" or "intelligent" when I could use "smart" there), for a variety of reasons...

- I expect Embiid, Parker, Wiggins and Vonleh to be gone.

- Smart appears to be one of the harder working more intelligent players available this year.

- With the others gone, I subscribe to taking the best available athlete, especially when rebuilding.

- Other than possibly Vonleh, no good center options seem available (as long as Embiid is gone).

- Smart is one of the few guards I've seen in recent years that I truly think can become a starter/regular rotation player in the NBA at either guard spot. I think there are several teams he could start for as a rookie, at either guard.

- I feel he is insurance at two positions, should we lose either Bradley or Rondo, and I think he will be a more complete two-guard than Bradley.

- Were we to retain Bradley and Rondo, I think he would give us one of the stronger guard rotations around in a very short time. We may want to find quality forwards, but if we end up with a deep, talented pool of guards, we're still making progress.

- He's a productive, consistent, offensive threat, and stronger defender than most people seem to realize. His outside shooting fell off a little this past season, but we're not finding players who walk on water at #6.

That's the quick list, anyway. I guess that's actually a combination of taking Smart for the player he is individually as well as how he would fit as a Celtic.

Regards

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:07 pm

I like Smart too, hes a physical defender, he reminds me a little of Tony Allen with much better offensive skill and handle, lately I've been reading alot of reports that Aaron Gordon is athletic enough to play the 3 and he has alot of intangibles. If he could morph into a Kawhi Leonard type, a defensive rebounding force from the 3 and his shot could evolve/develop like Kawhi, that might be hard to pass up.

by **Sam** Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:40 pm

Would you guys rather have Smart than Asik? I'd much rather see Danny use the pick as part of a deal for a legitimate center.

Sam

by **bobheckler** Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:54 am

The Celtics have looked at about 50 prospects over the past few weeks.

bob

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by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:16 am

sam wrote:Would you guys rather have Smart than Asik? I'd much rather see Danny use the pick as part of a deal for a legitimate center.

Sam

if Gordon can morph into the next Kawhi, I'd rather keep the pick and offer one from next year or the year after. Kawhi is 22 and came into league as athletic stopper, now hes got the shot and more skills after years of work and hes still young.

by **NYCelt** Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:17 am

sam wrote:Would you guys rather have Smart than Asik? I'd much rather see Danny use the pick as part of a deal for a legitimate center.

Sam

Sam,

In my opinion, yes, I'd use the pick to take and keep Smart, even if it meant passing up a chance to get Asik.

I think it's going to take a few seasons to build this team the right way, and I see Asik as merely a potentially adequate overall choice at center. It would be my own preference to wait and see who else might become available via free agency or draft over the next two or three seasons. In a year or two we'll be in a better position financially to go after a stronger player if we're looking for a veteran versus a promising rookie.

In the interim, I feel that Smart could be a strong part of a group of guards that might help attract free agents down the road, and will give us a strong point guard if a replacement is needed. Consider it an odd twist, but I think having someone like Smart on the roster could help us retain Rondo if he sees we're trying to build a strong, deep backcourt. Rondo is intelligent enough to recognize a potential running mate or strong backup when he sees one. If Rondo departs and we have no plan B, we could once again be looking at an extended period of time where The Celtics are an afterthought. I think this could be exactly what Mike Gorman was talking about when he said The Celtics top draft/shopping priority was at guard.

Ultimately having some combination or all among Rondo, Smart and Bradley in the backcourt seems to me to be a stronger selling point to other free agents than having Asik at center and possibly none of those three at guard. Asik and Bradley are no selling point either. Having Rondo, Smart or both appears stronger from a recruiting and team building standpoint to me. I think it represents building a much stronger nucleus.

I know I just used the term "strong" about a dozen times. I think it fits the situation perfectly, so I bagged the thesaurus. I think taking Smart versus dealing #6 in a package for Asik puts us in a much better position of strength for all the variables involved.

Regards

by **bobheckler** Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:29 am

sam wrote:Would you guys rather have Smart than Asik? I'd much rather see Danny use the pick as part of a deal for a legitimate center.

Sam

sam,

I'd rather have Smart AND Asik. I don't see it as an "either/or" because I don't think Asik is worth a #6 plus $9M worth of players. He should be available for weaker draft picks (which include future picks which are not as valuable as current picks) plus players.

Here's a possible trade scenario that does not require giving up the #6 for Asik (so it could be used for Kevin Love or Smart or Exum):

Celtics get:

Asik - salary for trade purposes is $8.4M but balloons to $15M next year.

Rockets get:

Bass - $6.45M
Bogans - $5M and immediately waivable
Clippers first round pick next year. Another future pick if necessary.

This trade works using the NBA trade machine.

So, they lose $15M in salary AND they only gain $6.45M (Bass, since Bogans is immediately cut), that's almost $9M freed up to pursue Carmelo.

The scary part is that at the end of next year we would have Rondo, Love and Asik all coming up for contract renegotiations, and Asik thinks he's a big deal and made $15M the year before and looks at Sanders and others making $11M+.

bob

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by **Sam** Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:30 am

Well, Danny must have a pretty good feel for how much he can depend on getting solid help versus long-term projects through the draft. Among other things, that will help him home in on where trades or free agency will be the way to go.

Sam

by **NYCelt** Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:56 am

Bob,

I never thought about that possible approach. I was strictly answering the question of Asik vs Smart, of which I'd take Smart.

What you bring up on the financials, and possibility of what we might have to pay Asik to retain him, make me want him even less. I just don't see him as someone we need to pursue at this time.

Regards

by **Sam** Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:23 pm

Wow!

Okay, guys, get used to more instances of the Celtics developing bad habits on defense because they won't be playing in a balanced defensive system. And the more years that situation endures, the more bad habits they'll develop. Get used to power forwards straining their backs and other body parts in an attempt to guard the center position.

It very well may take several years for the Celtics to become contenders. But they don't need to pull a Rip Van Winkle during that period. They can gradually develop and learn good habits—but that will be less possible if they don't have the intimidating center.

So Celtics might prefer to draft another undersized guard rather than shoring up the center position with a player who has proven to be a defensive/rebounding force at center whenever he has started? Unbelievable!

Sam

by **KyleCleric** Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:30 pm

I'd rather draft Vonleh or Randle or Exum than trade for Asik or draft Smart or Gordon.

by **bobheckler** Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:07 pm

Michael Scotto: Sources: Boston Celtics will bring in Walter Tavares for a workout today. The 7-foot-3 center is a rising prospect. #NBADraft Twitter @MikeAScotto

7'3" (probably in barefeet, since he's Euro and that's how they measure), 265#, 22 years old.

Draftexpress.com

Tavares exceeded all expectations this season relative to his experience-level and the quality of the competition he faced in arguably the toughest domestic league in Europe, as the starting center of a team currently in fifth place in the ACB.

Listed at 220cm (a hair under 7-3), Tavares has fantastic size to go along with a huge wingspan and extremely large hands. He moves well for a player his size, running the floor awkwardly but effectively, showing nice agility in his ability to set screens and dive to the rim, and also being extremely mobile defensively.

Tavares' biggest appeal as a NBA prospect lies in his ability to protect the paint. He blocks shots at a very nice rate, ranking #1 overall in the ACB on a per-game basis and third-best per-minute. He does a great job of hedging pick and rolls and recovering, something you rarely see from a player this size, and is still able to be very effective as a weakside rim-protector due to his mobility, length, terrific timing and instincts.

Tavares is also an excellent rebounder on both ends of the floor, which is unique considering the work he does as a weak-side shot-blocker. The 12.8 rebounds he averages per-40 minutes ranks fourth in the ACB, with a good share of them coming on the offensive end (4.5 per-40). He boxes out well, shows a high activity level, and uses his incredibly long arms, huge hands and excellent timing to clean the glass effectively, despite not being very vertical.

Offensively is where Tavares' lack of experience and polish shows the most at the moment. He's not much of a scorer at all, averaging just 11.5 points per-40 minutes, as he doesn't have much of a post game (just 17 attempts all season), and doesn't show much range outside of five feet, attempting only six jumpers all season. 77% of Tavares' offense this season came off cuts, pick and roll finishes, and offensive rebound put-back attempts.

With that said, Tavares does show some flashes of effectiveness here in the small role he's asked to play. He is a very solid finisher, converting 63% of his attempts around the basket, as he barely needs to jump to dunk the ball with how big and long he is. He also knocks down 71% of his free throw attempts, which is pretty good from a player his size, especially considering when he started playing. He has a good basketball IQ and looks very mature for a player playing his first real season of high-level professional basketball, as he does not look lost in the slightest and executes his team's offense very effectively.

As mobile as Tavares is for his size, he still lacks considerable explosiveness for a NBA big man, as he struggles to get off the ground effectively, which hurts him as a finisher at times. He still has a lot of work to do on improving his lower body strength as well, as he gets backed down by stronger players and is fairly foul prone, averaging 5.4 fouls per-40 minutes.

bob
MY NOTE: Never picked up a basketball before 2010 and he shoots almost 73% from the charity stripe? Shame on you, Rondo and Asik! Tavares and Nurkic are the only other centers in this draft besides Embiid. The draftexpress video says that his interior defense is one of his strengths.

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by **worcester** Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:02 pm

Very intriguing

by **Sam** Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:33 pm

While I believe it's easier to teach defense than shooting touch, it seems he has pretty good defensive credentials already. I'd prefer the bulk of the offense to come from the other four players anyway. Is he a sign-and-stash or a sign-and-develop guy? Time will tell.

If they don't have a center by draft time, I'll try to overcome my slit wrists long enough to tout him at #17.

Sam

Sam

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