How Much Is Too Much For Kevin Love?

Swish,

That was just a setup question.  My real question is what criteria did the players you selected satisfy?  My ultimate point is that some people would consider Sam, Bailey and Heinsohn role players.  So can role players be all league or elite or whatever term one wants to use?

Sam

Sam Sure a role player can be an elite player. But then, aren't all players role players ?

Swish

Swish, I agree that most players are role players. But I remain confused about the specific qualifications that a role player needs to qualify as "all league."

Sam

Sam
I only cataloged the championship team for each year (64 years). With the exception of 2010-11 ( Jason Kidd ) and 1957-58 ( Slater Martin) the all league players were talented scorers and or rebounders.

swish

As of 6/5/14.  This could just be posturing or it could be real.  There is talk that the package Chicago is allegedly putting together (Taj Gibson, Jimmy Butler, Carlos Boozer's expiring $16.8M contract plus the #16 and #19 picks for Kevin Love and Kevin Martin.  The Trade Machine says this deal works) is more attractive to Minny than the alleged package Danny is offering (any combination of Jared Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk, Jeff Green, Brandon Bass, Keith Bogans’ non-guaranteed contract and their nine first-round picks over the next five years).  There is also an article by Jackie Mac that alleges that the relationship between Danny and Flip when he was here helping the coaching staff last year was "cool", as in "not warm".

A report came out yesterday too that Sacto is one of the leading candidates for Love too because they have made everybody on the team available except for DeMarcus Cousins and would be willing to take Love without a guarantee he'll re-sign with them (aka "The Lakers Gambit").  Good luck to them.  Yeah, the weather is much better than Boston or Chicago, but it's not exactly a cultural or nightlife buffet table.

Right now, in my opinion, this is still all very much posturing and blah blah.  It won't start getting real until the week before the draft and the Wolves will want to know exactly where they'll be drafting and then it'll come together swiftly.

What I want to know is "why does everybody assume that Derrick Rose is going to come back at anywhere near former levels?".  The rumors are he's going to try out for Team USA next month.  Ok, that's great, and Kobe was back too, until his body told him he was being too optimistic.  Granted, Rose is much younger than Kobe and will heal better/faster and he has had a long time to rehab but Rose's first return didn't go well either.  He's only 25 years old and has had two knee surgeries already (left ACL and right miniscus).  Rehab for a torn miniscus is anywhere from 3-4 weeks to 3-4 months, depending upon how severe the tear was.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/16/us-nba-players-meniscus-idUSTRE7BF23P20111216

Rose tore his miniscus on 11/22/13, underwent surgery on 11/25/13 and was out for the rest of the season despite there being almost 4 months of season left at that point.  On the same day Rose had the surgery, the Bulls announced he was out for the season.  Does that sound like a minor miniscus tear to you?  I know, this is all tangential to the Kevin Love thing but I've been astonished at the level of denial going on with Rose for a while now.



http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233678/Sources-Timberwolves-Not-Enamored-With-Celtics-Potential-Offer-For-Kevin-Love


Sources: Timberwolves Not Enamored With Celtics' Potential Offer For Kevin Love
Jun 05, 2014 1:02 AM EDT


By visiting Boston last weekend, Kevin Love opened speculation that he would not only welcome a trade to the Celtics but also be open to signing a long-term contract with the team.

Love is willing to consider the scenario of a trade to the Celtics followed by an extension, according to sources.

However, the Minnesota Timberwolves are less than enamored with what the Celtics can offer them in a potential trade for Love. The Celtics could offer the No. 6 draft pick, the future selections from the Brooklyn Nets, the No. 17 pick and a combination of role players such as Jeff Green and Jared Sullinger.

The Timberwolves reportedly believe they have already fielded better trade offers, including from the Chicago Bulls.

Glen Taylor also has pause in regard to another major trade with the Celtics. Taylor gave the OK for Kevin McHale to deal Kevin Garnett to Boston in 2007.

The Cleveland Cavaliers, owners of the No. 1 overall pick, have interest in Love, but the feeling is not mutual, according to sources.



bob



.

Flip Saunders has found a new head coach!  It's him!

AP is reporting that Flip Saunders will be the next head coach of the T-Wolves.

Good news, bad news.  Now that the Wolves have a head coach, they can settle upon a strategy and style of play, which will let them move towards trading Love for specific players/picks that will fit that style. One obstacle cleared away.

The bad news is that, if Jackie Mac is right, Ainge and Flip aren't bosom buddies and the owner of the Wolves is afraid he'll get "Ainged" again (although it wasn't Danny's fault Al Jefferson tore up his knee in Minny, there was nothing wrong with him when he left Boston).


My gut is saying "forget about Kevin Love".  Tomorrow, I'll do another gut check and it'll be the other way.  Won't know for another 3 weeks.


bob


.

Brilliant move by Rose if he tries to come back from serious knee surgery by trying out for Team USA.  Show tons of allegiance to the Bulls.

Sam

I hope Danny is singing Jim Steinman's song: "I would do anything for Love, but I won't do that."

Despite Minny "not wanting" rotation guys like Sully, Olynyk, etc, they are not in a position of power. They are at risk of losing Kevin Love for nothing. I'd have to say the pressure is on them to make a move, unless they don't even care to do anything (which I doubt).


KJ

How can they tout Butler and Gibson as headliners on a deal with mid-to late round picks as compensation for Love as greater value than #6 and Sully + other picks and talent/cap relief? Butler and Gibson are the definition of rotation quality current talent and upside. Sully is a rotation quality player now but certainly has more upside than either of those two. The #6 is certainly far more valuable than both of those players as well.

Interesting piece about this story...


http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/05/report-bulls-have-made-better-trade-offer-than-celtics-for-kevin-love/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs



Report: Bulls have made better trade offer than Celtics for Kevin Love

Dan Feldman Jun 5, 2014, 1:59 PM EDT

The Minnesota Timberwolves say they don’t want to trade Kevin Love. Seriously, they don’t. They insist.

OK, maybe they’ll trade him later. Minimum, they’ll keep him until draft night.

Despite all this posturing, the Timberwolves are getting offers for their disgruntled star player. As soon as word spread Love wants out of Minnesota – and likely even before – teams across the NBA began sending the Timberwolves trade proposals.

Minnesota can either completely ignore these offers or evaluate them. Seems like the latter is a wiser option, even if the Timberwolves don’t want to act on them.

The Bulls emerged early as a potential suitor, and the Celtics reportedly have interest too. Love fanned those flames by visiting Boston, but just two catches – the Celtics don’t have cap room, and Love isn’t a free agent anyway.

Reportedly, Boston made Minnesota an offer, though. It just isn’t good enough.

Jackie MacMullan of ESPNBoston.com:

The Timberwolves privately maintain they already have fielded better offers from other teams, among them the Chicago Bulls

On the merits, the Celtics can make pretty intriguing offers – more on that later – but they might have to come substantially stronger than other teams, because Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor and president/coach Flip Saunders don’t jive with Boston.

MacMullan:

Taylor still hasn’t recovered from the last seismic Minnesota-Boston transaction, which led to a Celtics championship. In fact, sources in Minnesota say, the thought of conducting another major transaction with Boston gives Taylor great pause.

Some of McHale’s friends, including Ainge, felt Saunders undermined McHale, his former college teammate, during his final days in Minnesota.

When Doc Rivers hired Saunders as a “postseason consultant” for the Celtics during the 2012 playoffs, the interaction between Flip and Ainge was minimal and noticeably cool.

MacMullan doesn’t detail Chicago’s and Boston’s offers, but both teams have plenty of assets, including all their own future first-round picks.

The Bulls could offer some combination of:

No. 16 pick in 2014 draft
No. 19 pick in 2014 draft
Top-10 protected pick from the Kings between 2015 and 2017
Better of their own and the Cavaliers’ 2015 first-round picks (as long as Cleveland falls outside the lottery)
Nikola Mirotic’s rights
Jimmy Butler
Taj Gibson
Carlos Boozer’s expiring contract (to make salaries match without making Minnesota take a long

It’s easy to see how Chicago could put together a tempting offer. It’s just a matter of how much the Bulls want to trade for a player who’s locked up for only one – maybe two – more years.

But the Celtics, if they choose, could put together a pretty impressive offer of their own. In draft picks alone, they can offer a combination of:

No. 6 pick in 2014 draft
No. 17 pick in 2014 draft
Lottery-protected 2015 first-round pick from 76ers (if Philadelphia misses playoffs, it becomes two second rounders)
2015 Clippers first-round pick
2016 Nets first-round pick
Better of their own and the Net’s 2017 first-round picks
2018 Nets first-round pick

For example, Boston could offer some combination of its draft picks – along with Joel Anthony, Keith Bogans, Chris Johnson and either Phil Pressey or Chris Babb to make salaries match – for Love and agree to complete the trade as soon as the July moratorium ends.

Minnesota could immediately waive Bogans, Pressey, Johnson and Babb at no cost. Only the final year of Anthony’s contract ($3.8 million) would remain on the ledger. That’s significant – and more immediate than Chicago can offer – financial relief. The obvious hang-up is which picks to include.

Boston could also include Kelly Olynyk and/or Jared Sullinger, though that adds cost to the Timberwolves. Regardless, there are options.

Without question, the Celtics have more than enough to pry Love – at least unless the Bulls have made an incredible offer that exceeds expectations.

So, MacMullan’s report tells me either Chicago is offering too much for Love or Boston has, at least so far, refused to offer enough. But if the Celtics want Love, they probably have the assets to make a strong offer.

They just haven’t yet.
---


Should be interesting to see whether Ainge decides to rescind the offer or proposes more...



KJ

Why even mention that the Celtics don't have enough cap room (implying that free agency could be an option) and then state the fact that Love's not a free agent anyway. Are some of these media outlets training chimpanzees to type random letters until they randomly happen to produce something that resembles like a coherent article for publication?

Sam