Potential of this Team

Sometimes, we fans become so focused on results (good or bad) that we give short shrift to the potential being demonstrated by the Celtics  The Glimmer Thread is intended to be a safeguard against becoming too results-oriented.  But, in my definition at least, a glimmer has to have the substance of a true trend behind it.

But there's also a layer of hope that lies below the glimmer level.  The best word I can think of to describe that lower level is "potential."  And, although I know others will disagree with me, seeing something happen once or twice, while not often enough to indicate a trending glimmer, qualifies as indicating potential.  Because, once a player has accomplished something, it's proof enough to me that he has the potential to do so again.  Maybe he will, and maybe he won't replicate the accomplishment, but the latent potential is there.

Two games ago, I posted after the game that the bench was basically out to lunch, but the starters demonstrated an ability to close out a nip and tuck game.  It wasn't the first time they had done that, so the accomplishment definitely represented demonstrated potential that needed just a little more proof to become a bona fide glimmer.

One game later, I find myself writing that the starters (except for Green and maybe Zeller) were in never never land and deserved to be benched in favor of a group of backups who collectively demonstrated their own brand of potential, scoring more points than the bench in any other Celtics game in history.  (And they obviously did a lot more than score.  Arguably led by Marcus Smart, they did a pretty respectable job of coming back from a huge deficit and then holding their own defensively against a highly ranked Washington team that has two players with talents that have been the death knell for the Celts this season: a legitimate center with really strong offensive (especially on the pick and roll) and rebounding skills and arguably the fastest guard in the league, who can dominate in the open court, going to the hoop, and hitting the mid-range jumper.

So now we're confronted with a starting group and a bench group, both of which have demonstrated what I would define as considerable potential in contesting games against a pretty good team.  I'm not quite sure what to do with that two-headed situation.  I find it relatively easy to assume that the starters will snap back (especially after being embarrassed at being benched) to being able to play a representative brand of ball against the big boys.  It's a little more difficult to convince myself that the incredible performance of the bench last night wasn't just a fluke.  The two things that give me greatest hope on that score are (1) Smart appears to be the kind of catalyst who can jack up a team's defense and, by doing that, can also add adrenalin to the offensive attack and (2) the fact that Jeff Green basically plays with both the starters and the bench.  And I happen to believe that, right now, Jeff Green is the Celtics' best player, the Celtics' most consistent player, and the closest thing to a real "go to" (in a performance sense) player that the Celtics have.  And I believe Jeff is demonstrating a strong sense of purpose whenever he's on the floor.

But what's got me a bit flummoxed is wondering what would happen if both the starters and the bench began realizing their respective potentialities on a fairly regular basis.  The kind of dual forces that would each be capable of "covering" for the other if the other were having an off night.  The kind of dual forces that, if they're both operating at or near peak effectiveness could be competitively very scary to say the least.  The kind of dual forces that could only get even better if a raft of draft picks, a little cap space, and a few smart trades were utilized in the right way.

If it seems to anyone that I'm making far too much of just a couple of games, then I suggest that you go back and reread my definition of "potential."  Potential sort of falls into the "I'm just sayin'" category; it is definitely NOT some prediction (how I had that word) in any form.  It's the result of several players banding together effectively, rather than just one good player having a good game.  And it's definitely short of what I'd call a glimmer.

Speaking of which, I'm adding my second glimmer in two games to the Glimmer Thread.  This one pertains to Jeff Green's leap in effectiveness, aggressivness, and self-assurance.  Here's hoping Jeff doesn't let us down.

Frankly, the very fact that I can feel comfortable writing a thread of this nature so early in the season is something that I find rather amazing.  It has gotten to the point where, each time I'm tempted to write off a player, he comes up with great performance.  Now the guy I'm tempted to write off is Phil Pressey—not through any real fault of his but because I am liking the dual threat posed by Turner as a substitute floor general.  That's no knock against Marcus Smart, but I still need more proof that he can become a real floor general.  The way things are going, probably Pressey will each score 30 and have 15 assists in the next game.

Sam

I really love the potential all around game just demonstrated by Marcus Smart, for opponents he can hurt you and beat you so many different ways, if this game can lead to a glimmer of his overall ability, we really have a playa....and potential all star.

I like Turner, thought it was a great signing, potential steal, and that he wasn't used right at Indy. There must be a reason he was taken so high in the draft, he used to hurt us when he was with Philly. As much as I love and root for AB, Turner's offensive game is so much more diverse than AB's, theres really no comparison, he just needs steady minutes. Right now I'm thinking his game has more potential impact than AB's.

Were pretty stacked in the backcourt with those 4 and Thorton who can put up points in bunches when hes on and his defense is surprisingly good. How we gonna find time for James Young? as I like seeing Green and Turner together at the 3 and 2.

Cow,

Agree about preferring Turner over Avery Bradley.  Turner can hurt other teams in more ways offensively; and, although he's no better than average on defense, I like his added height in the defensive end at SG, to say nothing of backing up the "5" position.  I'd also rather keep Bass than Olynyk.  (I know I'll get slammed for that one, but that's fine.)

I'd love to see Danny package Bradley and Olynyk and at least a couple of first rounders for an impact center.  Although Bradley can't be traded until January 15, 2015 because he recently signed a contract, such a trade would work financially after that date.  I'd be very happy to trade from the two positions where the Celtics are most stacked to add to the one position where they're least stacked.

I could live very comfortably with throwing the following team against the wall (figuratively speaking) to see what sticks during the rest of the season:

C Asik and Zeller
PF Sullinger, Bass
SF Green, Turner, Smart, Wallace, Young
SG Turner, Smart, Thornton, Young
"5" Rondo, Smart, Turner, Pressey

Powell and Faverani (if they can find him) DL bound

I really like the versatility of such a roster which, in essense, would represent the equivalent of having 17 players dress for games.

Sam

Dboss,

If Smart continues his current developmental trend, I could easily see him as an upgrade over Bradley at the shooting guard position.  I'm not nearly sold on the future of Smart as a floor general, but I believe he and Rondo and Turner could represent a nice rotation in the backcourt, with James and/or Thornton in the wings.  I keep hearing how great a defensive player Bradley is, but I continue to believe that he's nothing like the defensive player he was a couple of years ago—maybe three.

He's a short SG in a league of larger SGs.  Avery is streaky (both good and bad), and I see him as very limited offensively to threes and jumpers, at which he's quite good.  (The league and draft are full of players who are good shooters.)  I don't see him as ever being a slasher because (1) he's a pretty bad ball-handler, (2) he's too short and gets lost among the tall timber, and (e) he has great difficulty finishing at the rim unless he has exactly the right angle of approach.

There's another factor that I hesitate to mention because it actually bothers me.  IF Rondo leaves, and IF the Celts can't replace him with a solid ball distributor, Avery will be one of the most affected players on the team because he cannot create his own shot.  He's almost strictly a catch-and-shoot guy.  The reason I hate to mention it is that I hate to envision a future filled with iso plays and threes due to the lack of a really good ball distributor.

You could easily be right about Avery; but, at this point in time, I think the Celtics need versatility more than they need limitations.

Sam

Sam,

Your thoughts of wondering about the potential of this year's team is solid and i think really has to be based on you thinking that there is clearly more talent on this year's team than there was last year.

Humphries showed a lot last year, but when you had to use guys hard working and very likeable guys like Babb and Johnson on even a semi regular basis the talent of last year's group did not really measure up.  There was the stigma of being in the official first year of a rebuild to tussle with.  There is also the fact that the young guys from last year are much improved this year and also that Stevens and his staff are now in their second year together.

I have thought that the talent upgrade has been visible all season long, but it would be some time for it to start to look like it was coming together.  There is no question in my mind that when they are able to take big early game leads like they have done in many games this year it is very much because the talent level has improved over last year.  

This is the reason that I have been on my big kick about this team needing "a/the guy" to emerge and tie all the pieces together.

Clyde,

You bet there's more talent on this year's team.  But it's also the types of talent.

Humphries played well for the Celts last season, but he was more of a one trick pony, with that sweet pop shot.  In my book, Zeller is a clear upgrade because he's more mobile and can hurt other teams with the pick and roll, the pick and pop, and running the floor.  He's also quite mobile in setting picks, and he's a better passer than I expected.

Jeff Green's having a better year, if not a breakout year, partly because of his own resolve and partly because teammates are taking the scoring pressure off him and are opening up scoring opportunities for him.  In general, they're spacing the floor better.  Guys like Turner and Thornton are legitimate scoring alternatives.  Rondo (with the exception of the most recent game) is becoming more comfortable with where his teammates like the ball.

I keep hoping the promise they're beginning to show is real and not some kind of fluke.  I'm pretty certain it's legitimate because they keep demonstrating the potential of which I speak.

As for the guy to tie all the pieces together, I tend to think of two guys—once each on offense and defense.  It's difficult not to finger the floor general as the guy who should be rallying the troops around him on offense.  Alternatively, I suppose Jeff Green could become the guy if he continues to display the aggressiveness and self-assurance that has marked his play lately.  I just hate to burden him with an added duty for fear it could lead to an overwhelming responsibility and make him regress in his performance level.

 it's difficult not to assume that Smart will be the guy on defense, perhaps requiring a year under his belt to give him the credibility he'll need in marshaling the defensive forces.

Sam

sam wrote:Clyde,

You bet there's more talent on this year's team.  But it's also the types of talent.

Humphries played well for the Celts last season, but he was more of a one trick pony, with that sweet pop shot.  In my book, Zeller is a clear upgrade because he's more mobile and can hurt other teams with the pick and roll, the pick and pop, and running the floor.  He's also quite mobile in setting picks, and he's a better passer than I expected.

Jeff Green's having a better year, if not a breakout year, partly because of his own resolve and partly because teammates are taking the scoring pressure off him and are opening up scoring opportunities for him.  In general, they're spacing the floor better.  Guys like Turner and Thornton are legitimate scoring alternatives.  Rondo (with the exception of the most recent game) is becoming more comfortable with where his teammates like the ball.

I keep hoping the promise they're beginning to show is real and not some kind of fluke.  I'm pretty certain it's legitimate because they keep demonstrating the potential of which I speak.

As for the guy to tie all the pieces together, I tend to think of two guys—once each on offense and defense.  It's difficult not to finger the floor general as the guy who should be rallying the troops around him on offense.  Alternatively, I suppose Jeff Green could become the guy if he continues to display the aggressiveness and self-assurance that has marked his play lately.  I just hate to burden him with an added duty for fear it could lead to an overwhelming responsibility and make him regress in his performance level.

 it's difficult not to assume that Smart will be the guy on defense, perhaps requiring a year under his belt to give him the credibility he'll need in marshaling the defensive forces.

Sam

We still need a baseline defender, somebody who has the whole floor in front of him and call out plays etc. It's hard for a perimeter defender like a guard to do that.

I've been reading everything I can about last night's game and have been reveling vicariously through you guys and the writers about Smart's impact but he can't hold the baseline against penetration or backdoor cuts. You need a big for that.



bob


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bob we do need a rim protector very badly, but this kid Smart may already be the best 6'4" defender in the NBA, he can guard 3 positions....his defense inspired the whole team, incredible heady physical defender.

Great posts all over today, and the excitement is coming in the wake of a loss! The final score is not the big story this year, because this team's potential, as currently constructed, is increasingly hard to ignore. Add another piece or two, particularly a defensive standout at center, and we could beat anyone. Smart is special, combining skills, strength and outstanding attitude (in that way he reminds me of Hondo). Green finally seems comfortable in green. Kudos to Danny for clever acquisitions and to Brad for daring to experiment. Hawk

Bobh,

Hope you're hearty and healthy and soaking up all sorts of cultural and visceral benefits.

I think those who have been talking about Smart's potential ability to be the takeover guy on defense relates more to his having leadership instincts and especially to lead by example.  I doubt that any of us has gotten off the Mr. Intimidator kick, except that the team without one, has only increased our curiosity about what would happen by "See me in April" time if we actually had one.

Yes, the second Wiz game was actually much more exciting and revealing to me than the Wiz game 24 hours earlier.

On a side note, I don't know whether everyone heard that John Wall had remained very close to a little girl with cancer for the past several months.  I assume he met her during a good will hospital visit.  He received word, shortly before the most recent Celtics-Wiz game, that she had passed away.  He dedicated that game to her, which takes any sting out of the loss for me, and he broke down during a post-game interview when asked about her.

Sam

Sam

Thanks for sharing this very touching story.  The game of compassion and love--  The biggest game of them all.   See below link for full story.

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/12/08/john-wall-washington-wizards-miyah-cancer

swish

Thanks for posting the link, Swish.

Sam

BobH,

I like the term "baseline defender" as a possible alternative to the misused "rim protector." Of course, I thought "rim protector" was just fine until it got besmirched by those who couldn't grasp the nuances of the complete definition and those who overused it because it was a new, shiny term that made them sound knowledgeable.

The language evolves, for good and for bad, but always forward.

cowens/oldschool wrote:bob we do need a rim protector very badly, but this kid Smart may already be the best 6'4" defender in the NBA, he can guard 3 positions....his defense inspired the whole team, incredible heady physical defender.

Cow,

I've noticed over the years that you and I seem to gravitate towards the same type of player; physically dominating, punishing players rather than 'finesse' players.  I saw a number of pictures over the summer where Smart was standing next to other players, PF Julius Randle for one, and commented how HUGE Smart's shoulders were, even against the much taller Randle.  Someone said to me "who cares about his shoulders?  He's not playing linebacker!" but his bigger frame, if not slowed down by the extra weight, makes him very tough to play against.  6'3", 220# SG Dwayne Wade has been able to dominate in match ups his entire career even though 6'3" isn't tall for a SG, because of the size of his frame without loss of speed.   Smart is 6'4", 227#.  That's a diesel.



bob


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sam wrote:Bobh,

Hope you're hearty and healthy and soaking up all sorts of cultural and visceral benefits.

I think those who have been talking about Smart's potential ability to be the takeover guy on defense relates more to his having leadership instincts and especially to lead by example.  I doubt that any of us has gotten off the Mr. Intimidator kick, except that the team without one, has only increased our curiosity about what would happen by "See me in April" time if we actually had one.

Yes, the second Wiz game was actually much more exciting and revealing to me than the Wiz game 24 hours earlier.

On a side note, I don't know whether everyone heard that John Wall had remained very close to a little girl with cancer for the past several months.  I assume he met her during a good will hospital visit.  He received word, shortly before the most recent Celtics-Wiz game, that she had passed away.  He dedicated that game to her, which takes any sting out of the loss for me, and he broke down during a post-game interview when asked about her.

Sam

Sam,

So far so mostly good, thanks for asking.  I was down for a day and two nights in Mandalay with food poisoning (or as I put it on Facebook "the Diet of Champions") but otherwise quite hearty.  In fact, I've already had to punch a new hole in my belt and am getting close to needing another  (yes, the food poisoning helped but carrying 45# on your back from hotel-to-hotel and trekking to ancient pagodas works too).  Am currently in southern Myanmar, in the city of Mawlamyine.  Formerly known as Moulmein when it was the capital of British Burma, it was the subject of a Rudyard Kipling poem (even though he was only here for 3 days).  George Orwell, author of 'Animal Farm' and '1984' lived here for years.

I leave Myanmar on the 18th (that'd be the 17th to you) for Chiang Mai,  Thailand.  Thai women are some of the prettiest in Asia and Chiang Mai women are famous in Thailand for being the most beautiful.  I might not ever come back.  I can get NBA league pass via satellite, can't I?

Hope you and Sally are likewise doing well in your new place and enjoying planning your next trip. Be the wild orangutan.



bob
PS I read about that little girl and Wall's dedication of the game to her. A noble effort by us and a noble effort and deed by him. Nice to see, all round.

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