Leadership

I posted a version of this elsewhere, but I believe it's important enough to merit its own conversation rather than being buried elsewhere. I'm thinking Jae Crowder has all the makings of a legitimate leader on this team. He's not a star, and he probably never will be. He might not even become a starter over time because his game is so well-suited to subbing in to give the team a shot of adrenalin. But he appears to be an ideal finisher, and that type of guy normally commands the kind of respect that infuses him with leadership tendencies. Moreover, the fact that he felt free to speak his piece just a couple of weeks into his Celtics tenure, coupled with the fact that the subject of his mini-rant was playing harder, suggest hes got the aggressive mentality and strength of character to become a leader. If he can further refine the reliability of his outside shot, so much the better, but he's already shown me that he meets leadership requirements. It's obviously early in the going in his Celtics career, but I really like this guy's style, and I believe they were fortunate to get him.

By the way, Jae's acquisition is just another example of how Danny is a much better judge of basketball horseflesh than he is sometimes given credit for. Think of it this way. In Rondo, he gave up someone who can be a masterful ball distributor when at the top of his game). In Crowder, Danny procured someone who can generate points for his team and deny points to the opposition just by dint of the way he plays; and there's no equivocation as to whether Jae will be at the top of his game every night. I'm not equating Jae's game to Rondo's because they play different roles; but I wouldn't back away from a vigorous discussion of who was/is the more valuable player for the Boston Celtics at this point in the team's redevelopment.

Sam

Sam,

Right now Crowder is looking like the guy I asked if Rondo should have been from the beginning of the season for the Celtics. This guy appears to be filling the role of "that guy" who makes his team better and the guy that they look to for guidance, example, etc. His level of play may never be of the 'star' variety, but every team needs a guy to set the pace for the entire team.

First, he seems to give everything he has all the time, he seems to understand how to win, he is now even speaking to the press about the first thing that every winning (or wanting to win) team needs and that is hustle and energy.

Jae Crowder = James Posey.  An energy, glue guy.  Not a star, maybe not even a starter, but a 2nd unit stalwart with 6th man qualities.  He brings energy and hustle and elevates the energy and hustle of everybody else on the floor with him.  Before last night, when was the last time you saw Sully go to the floor for the ball?



bob



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I like Jae so far, but there are a lot of things that go against this narrative of him being a potential leader.  

First off, no one has any idea how long he will be here.  Kind of hard to be a leader when you are still in a state of career limbo yourself.  

Secondly, Crowder is only 24.  That might see old compared to the Celtics core, but how many 28, 29 30+ year old veterans are going to take their lead from a reserve player with 2 years of NBA experience who as been here for a few weeks

Lastly, unless you are talking about an aging veteran who has already proven themselves in the NBA over a long career - I am not sure how your team leaders are the 7th or 8th man, but if there are any - there certainly aren't many.

BobH,

Yeah, Crowder has some of Posey's qualities, especially on the defensive end. But I believe Jae plays a more aggressive offensive game than James. Of all the field goal attempts James made in his career, 49% were threes (67% in his year with the Celtics). Jae's corresponding percentage is 35% (both for his career and in the little time he's spent with the Celtics. I think Jae is always looking for an opportunity to take it to the hoop, and the three is a later option with him. James' game lent itself more to perimeter shooting.

Interestingly, the two had/have comparable career success from the arc (Posey 35%, Crowder 33%), although Jae is shooting the three ball at only 21% with the Celtics in his short stay so far. (I hope and trust that figure will increase as he becomes more comfortable with the Celtics.

When you're a hustle guy, comfort doesn't seem matter as much as effort in your "short game," which is probably why his Celtics 2-point percentage is wall above his career 2-point percentage, 54% to 50%.

Sam

Mrkleen,

Technically there are eight Celtics who are older than Jae.  But, on a basketball team, a year or two difference in age doesn't mean nearly as much in leadership potential as how a guy carries himself and, in this case, how hard he plays.  Moreover, tenure with the team could be more influential than age on acknowledgement of leadership by teammates.  Only three members of the Celtics' rotation have been with the team significantly longer than Jae: Bass, Green and Bradley.  So far, I haven't seen signs that any of those three is destined to step into a leadership role, although I'm not denigrating their performances on the court.

As for his being the 7th or 8th man, he has become both a catalyst and finisher for Brad.  I think that's far more important than age.  People on this board have justifiably not been shy about conjecturing about Smart as possible leadership material; and, compared with Marcus, Jae's tripping over his beard.  Personally, I believe Jae has more of a leadership mentality than Marcus, but it's early in both careers.

Let me ask you this question.  What player on the Celtics has been the most consistent driving force on the team during his minutes on the floor since Rondo left?  If it's not Crowder, he has to be in the conversation.  One could make the point that he's been here for only a few games.  To which one might reply, "Yeah, he's just getting started."

This qualifies as one of those "See me in April" situations.  We'll then have a better feel about whether the level of Jae's early performance has staying power, and we'll certainly know whether or not the Celtics will have traded him by February.  If he keeps playing at his current level, I'll be surprised if Brad doesn't lobby for Jae to stay.

If there's one legitimate question about his leadership potential, it could be amount of playing time. I think being a finisher trumps a lot of other factors. But, despite his heroics last night, he played only 15 minutes, and eight teammates had more minutes. If he's used as only a temporary shot in the arm—or only at the end of games, which would be very odd—by Brad, any leadership potential could lack serious credibility. That's another "See me in April" factor.

Sam

mrkleen09 wrote:I like Jae so far, but there are a lot of things that go against this narrative of him being a potential leader.  

First off, no one has any idea how long he will be here.  Kind of hard to be a leader when you are still in a state of career limbo yourself.  

Secondly, Crowder is only 24.  That might see old compared to the Celtics core, but how many 28, 29 30+ year old veterans are going to take their lead from a reserve player with 2 years of NBA experience who as been here for a few weeks

Lastly, unless you are talking about an aging veteran who has already proven themselves in the NBA over a long career - I am not sure how your team leaders are the 7th or 8th man, but if there are any - there certainly aren't many.

Mrkleen,


Age is often age and experience related, but not always.  Alexander the Great and Napoleon Bonaparte come to mind.  For that matter  Bill Russell was a leader of the Celtics from an early age too.  

Ok, so let's say that Crowder and Smart are "leaders" now and then Danny trades for an older, more veteran and accomplished player.  A KG-like figure.  Does that mean Crowder and Smart stop being leaders, or does it just mean there's a new sheriff in town and Crowder and Smart are now deputy sheriffs?  As long as the struggle to be THE alpha male doesn't become egocentric and personal and remains team-oriented I don't see a problem with a newbie coming in and asserting himself.  Or deferring.

Bass and Green are older, have more years in the league and on the Celtics and they didn't seem to have a problem with Smart being vocal and he's a rookie.

Sure, it probably is too soon to proclaim Crowder as the leader but either way it doesn't matter.  He will grow into it or someone will leapfrog him and it is all good.


bob


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I like Crowder and his play a lot and I hope he stays around for a few years at least. We can use his hustle and effort on this young team.

he may be a leader or not, I guess only the locker room can determine that one.

but I personally don't see him as ever being more than the 8-10th guy on a good teams roster.

not trying to be a downer, we need good 8th men too!

mrkleen09 wrote:I like Jae so far, but there are a lot of things that go against this narrative of him being a potential leader.  

First off, no one has any idea how long he will be here.  Kind of hard to be a leader when you are still in a state of career limbo yourself.  

Secondly, Crowder is only 24.  That might see old compared to the Celtics core, but how many 28, 29 30+ year old veterans are going to take their lead from a reserve player with 2 years of NBA experience who as been here for a few weeks

Lastly, unless you are talking about an aging veteran who has already proven themselves in the NBA over a long career - I am not sure how your team leaders are the 7th or 8th man, but if there are any - there certainly aren't many.

Speaking of "age"

Marcus noted yesterday that he is older than James Young by a few months, first time he's seen a Celtic play that is older than him...thus he figures his shot at the NBA is now officially over.

Also I do like Crowder too but as you say there is so much shaking out yet to be done over the next several months/years a single leader might be hard pressed to emerge.

beat

My point was that we are talking about a 24 year old who has been here for 9 games and is playing 16 minutes per game.

I know we are all looking for glimmers of hope, but lets slow the leadership train down a bit here folks

Leadership.

There's a topic I love, and have been deeply involved in from both a business and athletic standpoint.

The fact is, a leader can be anyone on a team (or in a business), and can emerge at any time.  Often, the team leader is not evident and may very well not be a star or even a starter.  In some rare instances, a player is the leader from the point of his arrival forward.  A great example of this one is KG, who despite Paul Pierce being named captain, was the team leader.  Rondo, who has been much discussed here of late, by team accounts at the time, took over the mantle of team leader in the 2012 pre-season.  In the not-too-distant past of a team with a very vocal Antoine Walker and rapidly emerging Paul Pierce, the team leader was none other than Eric Williams.

It's certainly possible that a young newcomer like Crowder could become a leader or even the leader quickly; but from my own experience as a player (collegiate baseball, boxing and HS football, not much basketball at 5' 9" with a bad knee!), a certified coach (State University of NY and NAIA, Wisconsin Private Schools), and making a regular study of leadership in the business world and on the playing field, that would be a very rare happening.

NYCelt,

I would agree with you on your leadership thoughts, but it is very possible that a guy who plays as hard as Crowder seems to play can also gain a leadership position in a group by just the timing of his arrival to said group.

This may especially be true when the group has been void of such a leader for a period of time. The new guy who goes 100% is often thought of as a blessing after none of the other members of the group 'wanted' to take the leadership role either verbally or physically.

There are lots of people in groups who have lots of talent but just never seem to rise up to take on the leadership role in the group. Mostly this is because the leader is always more scrutinized when things such as group success is not within easy grasp.

Although never in the Cs huddles, practices or meetings, I will bet that they are a bunch of guys on this team who let out some real long sighs when Crowder started to step up in the leadership category. Mostly those sighs were saying something like "phew, glad that someone else is doing this and that I don't have to".

This is not meant as a serious attack on any of the guys who have been on the team all year (although I did criticize Rondo for not taking this role), but rather a softer criticism based on "you know it needed to be done, you could have at least tried" because if you have been in sports (as all of these guys have) you know that all successful teams have leaders of some kind. You also know that if you do not have some positive leaders that you are also not a successful team.

You can only lead by example. If Crowder not only talks the talk but also walks the walk others will in time follow.