Brad Stevens Should Get COY Consideration

I too believe you are way off base Shamrock

What happens this season is not the point playoffs or not.

We have plenty of attractive assets to move up in the draft if need be.

beat

mrkleen09 wrote:You said very clearly that Danny is "trying" to make the team worse....that is what I cant wrap my head around.  How anyone can look at Danny Ainge and his history of building teams - and think he has ever had losing or "tanking" in his vocabulary is beyond me.  There are a lot of things "out there" from a lot of idiots on boards like Boston.com or ESPN....so yes, some people might feel that way - but the proof is in the evidence.  Anyone who watches this team can see they are playing hard, coming together in support of each other etc.

Rondo had a very high probability of testing free agency in the summer, so DA went and got assets for him rather than waiting and getting nothing for him.  That was an astute move, not a move to intentionally make the team worse.  Green was a similar move.

I see no evidence of Danny Ainge trying to do anything but stockpile assets to use in coming years.  Sorry.

The tone of my statement about Ainge "trying to make the team worse" was meant to be more like good-natured ribbing/teasing than an actual indictment of his performance. Perhaps I used the wrong language in my original post, but c'mon, cut me a little slack here - I was pretty clear in my next post that I am sure Danny has the team's long term interest in mind. I agree with almost all his moves based on the logic you used above. Also, I never used the word "tanking". In fact, I would argue that I just pointed out the obvious, i.e. that Danny decided to take a step or two back in order to get better in the long run. I actually agree with the strategy.

However, to deny that Danny has made moves to make the team worse is ridiculous. First, trading Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett clearly made the team worse. That is the team Danny initially handed Brad. I'm pretty sure Danny knew that would make the team worse. Trading Rondo and Jeff Green was pretty much a concession that Danny was not interested in trying to squeak into the playoffs. I don't know how you could say otherwise. Did he do it for the long-term health of the team? Of course - you don't actually believe that I think Danny doesn't have the Celtics' best interest at heart do you?. It was never a criticism of Danny, whom I love as a GM. The whole point of my original post is that Brad hasn't had a chance to really prove himself as a coach because of the talent of his teams.

beat wrote:I too believe you are way off base Shamrock

What happens this season is not the point playoffs or not.

We have plenty of attractive assets to move up in the draft if need be.

beat

Beat - I'm afraid I wasn't clear. I entirely agree with what you and MrKleen said about the value of playoffs vs future assets, etc, etc. I actually think Ainge is kind of a brilliant GM. The whole point of my original post was that it is premature to judge Brad as a coach, since he doesn't have a great team to work with. The reason he doesn't have a good team right now is largely because of the moves Ainge has made. Again, I agree with the moves, and believe they will pay off in the end, but right now, the Celtics just are not a very good team. No coach could make them good. That was my point. Just to be clear, I like many of the current players. They try hard. Some have a lot of potential. Some will be traded for better players. Some are even pretty good right now. But overall the Celtics just aren't good enough to win a lot of games, and I don't think that Brad should be blamed for that. I also think its silly to say he is COY when we have no evidence that the team has over-achieved, or that another coach would have gotten less out of them. Sorry for long-winded reply and the perhaps poorly worded earlier post....

Shamrock,

I took your comment about Ainge as being tongue-in-cheek. I find that, when a comment on this forum could be taken as either serious of a form of levity, it's usually the latter. I tend to use a lot of humor in my posts, and I went through years of having people interpret my attempts at witticism seriously. I think that now they just ignore me.

Sam

sam wrote:Shamrock,

I took your comment about Ainge as being tongue-in-cheek.  I find that, when a comment on this forum could be taken as either serious of a form of levity, it's usually the latter.  I tend to use a lot of humor in my posts, and I went through years of having people interpret my attempts at witticism seriously.  I think that now they just ignore me.

Sam

Kleen (and Sam (and Beat))

After re-reading the posts, I can see now that I am in the wrong. Without knowing me, how on earth could posters know my intent from the words I actually wrote? Bad writing elicited reasonable responses. It is important to be clear, since we are all passionate fans (and lets all stay that way!), and I haven't seen one poster here who even approaches trolling. Will try and be more careful in the future.

Bury the hatchet?

Shamrock

No problem

One thing that does bug me a little is when some point out select mistakes like overlooking a player in the draft...........geesh the entire draft is a crapshoot after the first 5-8 picks

Years ago some team took LaRue Martin !! (portland perhaps) With the #1 pick

I saw Martin play in Buffalo one time... he fouled out in like 8 minutes....

Every GM in the league fumbles picks, every damn one.


As for us now, we are sort of fun to watch, guys are emerging into their rolls, no stars and thats OK, balance too, how many times do we put 5-6-7 players in double figures? Seems almost every game now.

And there never was a hatchet in the first place

beat

Shamrock...no worries at all.

I dont agree with every move DA has made by a long shot. But I always feel he is doing what is best at the time. So when you said he was trying to make the team worse, which inversely means makes them lose games, which is the definition of tanking - intentionally losing games - I reacted.

As Beat said, even if you didnt clarify your points - there is no hatchet at all.

I'm not sure that Ainge has any idea of how to build the kind of team that Steven's probably needs.



KJ

k_j_88 wrote:I'm not sure that Ainge has any idea of how to build the kind of team that Steven's probably needs.



KJ

KJ,


You don't think Danny and Brad have regular discussions about this?


bob




.

k_j_88 wrote:I'm not sure that Ainge has any idea of how to build the kind of team that Steven's probably needs.



KJ

I dont think DA can be that picky even if he wanted to be. A rebuild could happen in any number of different ways, so I dont see how he can (or should) have a particularly way of going about it. Get the best players you can through draft, trade, free agency - when the dust settles, if Brad isnt the best guy for the job - bye bye Brad. Danny is beholden to the Boston Celtics not his coach.

mrkleen09 wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:I'm not sure that Ainge has any idea of how to build the kind of team that Steven's probably needs.



KJ

I dont think DA can be that picky even if he wanted to be.  A rebuild could happen in any number of different ways, so I dont see how he can (or should) have a particularly way of going about it.  Get the best players you can through draft, trade, free agency - when the dust settles, if Brad isnt the best guy for the job - bye bye Brad.  Danny is beholden to the Boston Celtics not his coach.

I think this is a point that is often lost.  It seems to me the assumption is frequently made that the route will be, or needs to be, similar to '07, when it's completely impossible to say.

BobH,

Judging by the kind of offense that Brad seems to want to run, that requires a roster laden with decent-to-adept ballhandlers, kind of like SAS. I'd have to say my main doubts are rooted in the draft and Ainge's ability in selecting the kinds of players that will actually help tailor the roster to what Stevens needs. I understand that not everyone shares my sentiments on this, but Ainge's drafting history does not inspire much confidence to me.


NYCelt,

My main assumption isn't about the overall course, but mainly drafting.



KJ


KJ

k_j_88 wrote:BobH,

Judging by the kind of offense that Brad seems to want to run, that requires a roster laden with decent-to-adept ballhandlers, kind of like SAS. I'd have to say my main doubts are rooted in the draft and Ainge's ability in selecting the kinds of players that will actually help tailor the roster to what Stevens needs. I understand that not everyone shares my sentiments on this, but Ainge's drafting history does not inspire much confidence to me.


NYCelt,

My main assumption isn't about the overall course, but mainly drafting.



KJ


KJ

Got it KJ; didn't intend to aim my comment about expectations at you since I know where you're coming from.  It was more of a general comment agreeing with mrkleen's point about rebuilding.

A number of people have expressed concern over D. Ainge's draft record.  I think if we select another project in the first round this year (a la Fab Melo or James Young) the villagers may chase Ainge out of town with pitchforks and torches.