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Danny Does it Again. Something (in Fact, Plenty) for Nothing!
by Sam Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:15 am
Danny has once again squeezed the very most out of trading very little. Thornton's instant offense may be missed, but Thomas will more than cover that void. The pick Danny traded was one of the least valuable, since it was top-10 protected and would probably have been a low first-rounder unless Lebron and mates totally self-destruct. And Danny got two players (or at least one) for a player he was going to buy out on Monday and (I hear) also getting a trade exception in the deal.
Sam
Crack a beer, Celtics fans.
You're done bottoming out.
Danny Ainge went out and snared himself a nice piece in scoring guard Isaiah Thomas from Phoenix right at Thursday's trade deadline, then turned around and brought in Pistons' forward Jonas Jerebko, a rangy, solid defender with an expiring contract. Both are good moves on their own merit for a team that actually may have some designs on a playoff spot in the woeful Eastern Conference.
But what made them great moves -- both for now and for the future -- is that Ainge gave up virtually nothing in either deal while maintaining all of the best, most valuable currency he's been piling onto Asset Mountain since the summer of 2013.
For Thomas, the Celtics sent Marcus Thornton's expiring deal and the 2016 first-rounder acquired in last summer's ice cream headache of a three-team deal with Cleveland and Brooklyn that netted Tyler Zeller and, somewhat ironically, Thornton. That pick was Cleveland's, is protected from 1-10 and given the Cavs' place in the current NBA hierarchy, it's likely to fall somewhere in the mid-20s in the 2016 draft. In other words, who cares?
Next, he spun Tayshaun Prince, who he was reportedly going to buy out on Friday, back to the site of Prince's glory days with the Pistons in exchange for a player who does some of the same things only is significantly younger, and is also up at the end of the year. In other words, come on down, play defense and take a few 3s for the next two or three months, maybe help us make the playoffs and vaya con dios.
It should probably also be noted here that the Pistons also sent bench fodder Luigi Datome to the Celts in order to make the money match up just right. Datome probably won't play much, if at all, for the Celtics and is a restricted free agent after this season. But the fact that Ainge swung two players for Prince, who again was to be gone for nothing within 24-48 hours, is miraculous.
So just like that, the Celtics have a go-to guy on offense whom they've coveted for months and who makes relatively cheap money. Thomas scored 20 per game last season with Sacramento and this year with the Suns he's putting up 15 while playing nine fewer minutes a night. He's small (5'9") but can get to the rim with terrific speed and quickness and also shoot just under 40 percent from deep. Having him around takes some offensive burden off of Avery Bradley, who has made himself into a good jump shooter but can't create his own shot or do much of anything off the dribble.
The Celts can now better contend for the playoffs this year even with Jared Sullinger out for a stretch (really, grabbing that 8-seed and picking, say, 16th in the draft, is pretty much the same as not grabbing it and picking 13th or 14th, right?), still find plenty of time to play and develop Marcus Smart (and possibly free up more minutes for James Young in the absence of Prince) and maintain all the flexibility to go nuts come summer time. None of the potentially top-flight draft picks acquired these past couple of years have gone anywhere. Those picks Ainge stole from Brooklyn in the Paul Pierce/Kevin Garnett trade? Still here.
And if for some reason Thomas doesn't work out, his contract makes him completely movable should the Celts feel the need to include him in targeting a big name or two in June and July.
This is a good day for the Celtics and their fans. They got better without giving up anything of consequence to do so and are just as flexible for the future as they've been all along.
There is light at the end of the rebuild tunnel and it's shining nice and bright.
Sam
- Jeremy Gottlieb
- @jmg2776
- Boston.com Staff
- FEBRUARY 19, 2015 4:11 PM
ABOUT THE AUTHORJeremy Gottlieb is a Boston native and seasoned sports writer/nerd whose work has appeared in The Boston Globe, The Eagle-Tribune, The Metrowest Daily News and at BDCwire, SB Nation and Bleacher Report.
Crack a beer, Celtics fans.
You're done bottoming out.
Danny Ainge went out and snared himself a nice piece in scoring guard Isaiah Thomas from Phoenix right at Thursday's trade deadline, then turned around and brought in Pistons' forward Jonas Jerebko, a rangy, solid defender with an expiring contract. Both are good moves on their own merit for a team that actually may have some designs on a playoff spot in the woeful Eastern Conference.
But what made them great moves -- both for now and for the future -- is that Ainge gave up virtually nothing in either deal while maintaining all of the best, most valuable currency he's been piling onto Asset Mountain since the summer of 2013.
For Thomas, the Celtics sent Marcus Thornton's expiring deal and the 2016 first-rounder acquired in last summer's ice cream headache of a three-team deal with Cleveland and Brooklyn that netted Tyler Zeller and, somewhat ironically, Thornton. That pick was Cleveland's, is protected from 1-10 and given the Cavs' place in the current NBA hierarchy, it's likely to fall somewhere in the mid-20s in the 2016 draft. In other words, who cares?
Next, he spun Tayshaun Prince, who he was reportedly going to buy out on Friday, back to the site of Prince's glory days with the Pistons in exchange for a player who does some of the same things only is significantly younger, and is also up at the end of the year. In other words, come on down, play defense and take a few 3s for the next two or three months, maybe help us make the playoffs and vaya con dios.
It should probably also be noted here that the Pistons also sent bench fodder Luigi Datome to the Celts in order to make the money match up just right. Datome probably won't play much, if at all, for the Celtics and is a restricted free agent after this season. But the fact that Ainge swung two players for Prince, who again was to be gone for nothing within 24-48 hours, is miraculous.
So just like that, the Celtics have a go-to guy on offense whom they've coveted for months and who makes relatively cheap money. Thomas scored 20 per game last season with Sacramento and this year with the Suns he's putting up 15 while playing nine fewer minutes a night. He's small (5'9") but can get to the rim with terrific speed and quickness and also shoot just under 40 percent from deep. Having him around takes some offensive burden off of Avery Bradley, who has made himself into a good jump shooter but can't create his own shot or do much of anything off the dribble.
The Celts can now better contend for the playoffs this year even with Jared Sullinger out for a stretch (really, grabbing that 8-seed and picking, say, 16th in the draft, is pretty much the same as not grabbing it and picking 13th or 14th, right?), still find plenty of time to play and develop Marcus Smart (and possibly free up more minutes for James Young in the absence of Prince) and maintain all the flexibility to go nuts come summer time. None of the potentially top-flight draft picks acquired these past couple of years have gone anywhere. Those picks Ainge stole from Brooklyn in the Paul Pierce/Kevin Garnett trade? Still here.
And if for some reason Thomas doesn't work out, his contract makes him completely movable should the Celts feel the need to include him in targeting a big name or two in June and July.
This is a good day for the Celtics and their fans. They got better without giving up anything of consequence to do so and are just as flexible for the future as they've been all along.
There is light at the end of the rebuild tunnel and it's shining nice and bright.
Sam- Admin
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Re: Danny Does it Again. Something (in Fact, Plenty) for Nothing!
by Sam Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:02 am
Just for the heck of it, I attempted to track Danny's personnel moves since the end of the 2013-14 season to see where they netted out. I did it quickly, and I'm pretty sure there are some trade exceptions (and possibly some other elements) missing. But following is what I found:
Picked Smart and Young in the draft.
Traded future 2nd round pick for Marcus Thornton, Tyler Zeller and a protected first round pick, which (in combination with Thornton) just became Isaiah Thomas. So, in essence, he traded a 2nd round pick for Tyler Zeller, Isaiah Thomas, and a protected first round pick.
Signed-and-traded Kris Humphries for a trade exception and 2015 2nd round pick, thus getting something for a player who had already decided on free agency.
Traded Bogans and two 2nd round picks for three players who were waived plus Dwight Powell plus two 2nd round picks. Got rid of Bogans and his salary.
Signed Evan Turner as a free agent. Turner would become the starting floor general.
Traded Joel Anthony for Will Bynum, getting rid of Anthony’s salary and waiving Bynum.
Traded Powell and Rondo for Jae Crowder, Brandan Wright and Jameer Nelson. Got a $13 million trade exception for Rondo, who would have walked at the end of the year for no return. Crowder has become a solid rotation player.
Traded Brandan Wright for a protected 1st round pick, which becomes two 2017 2nd round picks if not used before then.
Traded Jeff Green (who would probably have walked in return for nothing at the end of the season) for Tayshaum Prince, Austin Rivers, and a future first round pick.
Traded Jameer Nelson for Nate Robinson, who was subsequently waived.
Traded Austin Rivers for Chris Douglas-Roberts, Shavlik Randolph and a 2nd round draft pick.
Signed Andre Dawkins to a 10-day contract. Didn’t re-sign him after second 10-day contract.
Traded Marcus Thornton and protected 1st round draft pick for Isaiah Thomas.
Traded Tayshaun Prince for Jones Jerebko, Luigi Datome and a trade exception.
I tried to keep track of the incoming and outgoing draft picks, which tended to cancel each other out except for a plurality of one incoming 1st rounder and one incoming 2nd rounder.
By my admittedly rough calculation (and I'd be delighted if someone wanted to correct any omissions or errors) following is the "balance sheet:"
Net inflow: Jae Crowder, Evan Turner, Isaiah Thomas, Shavlik Randolph, Marcus Smart, James Young, Jonas Jerebko, Luigi Datome, a protected first round draft pick, a second round draft pick and several trade exceptions.
Net outflow: Two starters (Rondo and Green) who probably would have bolted at the end of the season, leaving the Celtics nothing in return, a good rebounder (Humphries) with a large salary, a malingerer (Bogans) with a mid-range salary.
In short, Danny has netted eight human assets (including at least four strong rotation players plus a potentially future star plus a protected 1st round draft pick plus a 2nd round pick plus significant trade exceptions in return for shedding at least $15 million in salary and getting something in return for two starters who probably would have left the team this summer in return for nothing.
I've heard that all female pigs residing within 200 miles of Boston are missing ears because Danny has all of them and is busy making silk purses out of them.
And none of the information contained above includes Danny's pre-2014-15 moves to get the three unprotected Brooklyn first round picks and the Clippers' first round pick
No general manager (or President functioning in that role) is perfect. A year or two ago, I posted a tabulation of Red Auerbach's first round picks through the years, and something like 40% or 50% of them didn't make it as NBA rotation players. Well Danny's average in the totality of his transactions is significant better than 50%.
It seems to me that people who disparage Danny's expertise in the personnel part of the job are (let's use a nice word) ill-advised. Given what he's had to work with, I believe his performance borders on the incredible.
As just one example, try to imagine the game of "chicken" that was probably played between the two franchises in the negotiations over the Thomas deal. And then take a wild guess at who didn't blink first!
Nice going Danny. Go Celtics!
Sam
Picked Smart and Young in the draft.
Traded future 2nd round pick for Marcus Thornton, Tyler Zeller and a protected first round pick, which (in combination with Thornton) just became Isaiah Thomas. So, in essence, he traded a 2nd round pick for Tyler Zeller, Isaiah Thomas, and a protected first round pick.
Signed-and-traded Kris Humphries for a trade exception and 2015 2nd round pick, thus getting something for a player who had already decided on free agency.
Traded Bogans and two 2nd round picks for three players who were waived plus Dwight Powell plus two 2nd round picks. Got rid of Bogans and his salary.
Signed Evan Turner as a free agent. Turner would become the starting floor general.
Traded Joel Anthony for Will Bynum, getting rid of Anthony’s salary and waiving Bynum.
Traded Powell and Rondo for Jae Crowder, Brandan Wright and Jameer Nelson. Got a $13 million trade exception for Rondo, who would have walked at the end of the year for no return. Crowder has become a solid rotation player.
Traded Brandan Wright for a protected 1st round pick, which becomes two 2017 2nd round picks if not used before then.
Traded Jeff Green (who would probably have walked in return for nothing at the end of the season) for Tayshaum Prince, Austin Rivers, and a future first round pick.
Traded Jameer Nelson for Nate Robinson, who was subsequently waived.
Traded Austin Rivers for Chris Douglas-Roberts, Shavlik Randolph and a 2nd round draft pick.
Signed Andre Dawkins to a 10-day contract. Didn’t re-sign him after second 10-day contract.
Traded Marcus Thornton and protected 1st round draft pick for Isaiah Thomas.
Traded Tayshaun Prince for Jones Jerebko, Luigi Datome and a trade exception.
I tried to keep track of the incoming and outgoing draft picks, which tended to cancel each other out except for a plurality of one incoming 1st rounder and one incoming 2nd rounder.
By my admittedly rough calculation (and I'd be delighted if someone wanted to correct any omissions or errors) following is the "balance sheet:"
Net inflow: Jae Crowder, Evan Turner, Isaiah Thomas, Shavlik Randolph, Marcus Smart, James Young, Jonas Jerebko, Luigi Datome, a protected first round draft pick, a second round draft pick and several trade exceptions.
Net outflow: Two starters (Rondo and Green) who probably would have bolted at the end of the season, leaving the Celtics nothing in return, a good rebounder (Humphries) with a large salary, a malingerer (Bogans) with a mid-range salary.
In short, Danny has netted eight human assets (including at least four strong rotation players plus a potentially future star plus a protected 1st round draft pick plus a 2nd round pick plus significant trade exceptions in return for shedding at least $15 million in salary and getting something in return for two starters who probably would have left the team this summer in return for nothing.
I've heard that all female pigs residing within 200 miles of Boston are missing ears because Danny has all of them and is busy making silk purses out of them.
And none of the information contained above includes Danny's pre-2014-15 moves to get the three unprotected Brooklyn first round picks and the Clippers' first round pick
No general manager (or President functioning in that role) is perfect. A year or two ago, I posted a tabulation of Red Auerbach's first round picks through the years, and something like 40% or 50% of them didn't make it as NBA rotation players. Well Danny's average in the totality of his transactions is significant better than 50%.
It seems to me that people who disparage Danny's expertise in the personnel part of the job are (let's use a nice word) ill-advised. Given what he's had to work with, I believe his performance borders on the incredible.
As just one example, try to imagine the game of "chicken" that was probably played between the two franchises in the negotiations over the Thomas deal. And then take a wild guess at who didn't blink first!
Nice going Danny. Go Celtics!
Sam
Sam- Admin
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Re: Danny Does it Again. Something (in Fact, Plenty) for Nothing!
by kdp59 Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:22 am
good to see there are others that agree with me about the Thomas move.
While I didn't see the Jerebko addition as much needed at first, once I saw the Sully injury reports, it made more sense.
the Swede is a stretch four at worst, who supposedly plays good defense (we'll see about that).
losing Sully will make it much harder to make that playoff push this year, as someone will need to pick up the rebounding slack. I 'm not sure who on our roster can do that.
Looks like Zeller will be back starting though.
While I didn't see the Jerebko addition as much needed at first, once I saw the Sully injury reports, it made more sense.
the Swede is a stretch four at worst, who supposedly plays good defense (we'll see about that).
losing Sully will make it much harder to make that playoff push this year, as someone will need to pick up the rebounding slack. I 'm not sure who on our roster can do that.
Looks like Zeller will be back starting though.
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Age : 64
Re: Danny Does it Again. Something (in Fact, Plenty) for Nothing!
by bobheckler Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:19 am
I'm back in CA, ridiculously jet-lagged, wondering what the hell I was thinking when I booked my travel out of Asia on Chinese New Years and the NBA trade deadline.
So, trying to wrap my mind around all this while using toothpicks to prop my eyelids open:
Two trades:
1. 26 year old Isaiah Thomas, who was the first person Danny called last summer when the balloon went up on free-agent hunting, for Thornton and our least valuable first rounder since it is useless unless Kyrie Irving and LeBron get into a knife fight. I like Thornton and appreciate what he gave us, including no bitching about minutes, but we needed an upgrade at point more than we needed a SG.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html
2. 28 year old Jonas Jerebko (who is not bad, just not spectacular), and 27 year old Gigi Datome for 34 year old rental Tayshaun Prince. This reporter says that Datome is "bench fodder". I can see International's head exploding from here. International was quite excited that the Celtics were in the "Gigi Datome Sweepstakes" when he was thinking of making the move from Italy to the NBA. We'll see. One person's "bench fodder" is another person's perfect role player. It will be quite interesting to see how these two Euro players fit into Brad's uptempo style. Euros seem to thrive in that style. With Sully being down for a while Jerebko's acquisition might be timely.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jerebjo01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/datomlu01.html
They don't call him Trader Danny for nothing. He gets good looks at two players for a player that was absolutely, positively going to be gone next year (and, it was suggested, could have been bought-out and gone next week meaning $ out and nothing in return except an open roster slot) and he moves a player who probably would not have been here next year because there is no way Danny would have paid him anywhere near the $8M he is making now and gets a player he coveted but couldn't get until now. And all he had to give up for all this was two rentals and a useless pick and none of our core.
Also, Thomas's contract was front-ended and actually declines over time, so salary cap issues get easier going forward.
bob
.
So, trying to wrap my mind around all this while using toothpicks to prop my eyelids open:
Two trades:
1. 26 year old Isaiah Thomas, who was the first person Danny called last summer when the balloon went up on free-agent hunting, for Thornton and our least valuable first rounder since it is useless unless Kyrie Irving and LeBron get into a knife fight. I like Thornton and appreciate what he gave us, including no bitching about minutes, but we needed an upgrade at point more than we needed a SG.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html
2. 28 year old Jonas Jerebko (who is not bad, just not spectacular), and 27 year old Gigi Datome for 34 year old rental Tayshaun Prince. This reporter says that Datome is "bench fodder". I can see International's head exploding from here. International was quite excited that the Celtics were in the "Gigi Datome Sweepstakes" when he was thinking of making the move from Italy to the NBA. We'll see. One person's "bench fodder" is another person's perfect role player. It will be quite interesting to see how these two Euro players fit into Brad's uptempo style. Euros seem to thrive in that style. With Sully being down for a while Jerebko's acquisition might be timely.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jerebjo01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/datomlu01.html
They don't call him Trader Danny for nothing. He gets good looks at two players for a player that was absolutely, positively going to be gone next year (and, it was suggested, could have been bought-out and gone next week meaning $ out and nothing in return except an open roster slot) and he moves a player who probably would not have been here next year because there is no way Danny would have paid him anywhere near the $8M he is making now and gets a player he coveted but couldn't get until now. And all he had to give up for all this was two rentals and a useless pick and none of our core.
Also, Thomas's contract was front-ended and actually declines over time, so salary cap issues get easier going forward.
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 61300
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Danny Does it Again. Something (in Fact, Plenty) for Nothing!
by Outside Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:47 am
Bob,
Welcome back. Dr. Outside's proven remedy for jet lag is to take two Anchor Steams and then see me in March, though Dr. Sam's method is to see me in April.
Welcome back. Dr. Outside's proven remedy for jet lag is to take two Anchor Steams and then see me in March, though Dr. Sam's method is to see me in April.
Outside- Posts : 3019
Join date : 2009-11-05
Re: Danny Does it Again. Something (in Fact, Plenty) for Nothing!
by Shamrock1000 Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:54 am
As I mentioned in another post, almost seems like Danny is operating at another level as GM. These deals are steals for the Celtics. The Cleveland pick might have brought in a Delonte West-level talent, but it could have just as easily brought in a Fab Melo. Thomas is a proven entity. Thornton was great for us, but he was not in our long term plans. Does Thomas have some flaws? Of course, but a guy who can generate points as quickly as Thomas can be important piece of a good team.
Don't know much about the two euro guys, but considering Prince was going to be bought out anyways, Danny scored again.
Danny has begun to cash in some of his assets for actual players. Is this a turning point in the rebuilding process?
Don't know much about the two euro guys, but considering Prince was going to be bought out anyways, Danny scored again.
Danny has begun to cash in some of his assets for actual players. Is this a turning point in the rebuilding process?
Shamrock1000- Posts : 2708
Join date : 2013-08-19
Re: Danny Does it Again. Something (in Fact, Plenty) for Nothing!
by bobheckler Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:57 am
Outside wrote:Bob,
Welcome back. Dr. Outside's proven remedy for jet lag is to take two Anchor Steams and then see me in March, though Dr. Sam's method is to see me in April.
outside,
thanks. I'm anticipating about 2 weeks of cultural and sticker shock. I had one last night when I paid $50 for sushi. That's an entire day's bill, including room and food, in almost every place I've been in the past 3 1/2 months.
Anchor Steams sound about right and getting 2nd opinions are always wise. Maybe I'll follow the prescription of both doctors and have 2 Anchors for March and another two for April. I'm such a cautious fellow.
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 61300
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Danny Does it Again. Something (in Fact, Plenty) for Nothing!
by gyso Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:19 pm
bobh,
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back!
You wrote,
"26 year old Isaiah Thomas, who was the first person Danny called last summer when the balloon went up on free-agent hunting, for Thornton and our least valuable first rounder since it is useless unless Kyrie Irving and LeBron get into a knife fight. "
Danny wanted him then, but all we could use to sign him as a free agent was the NTP-MLE. Thomas signed with the Suns for a little bit more and now we have him locked up long term anyway. Win: Danny.
The 2016 first rounder from the Cavs would be projected to be a pick very late in the 1st round. Definite crap-shoot territory, plus since it is a 1st round pick, it is guaranteed. We have two 2016 second-rounders, one from Philadelphia 76ers and one from the Minnesota Timberwolves. I don't expect much of a turnaround from either of those teams, so the picks should both be very in the early 2nd round. Still crap-shoot territory, but for less money and non-guaranteed. Win: Danny
All that, and we still have Bass. Who would have guessed that? The market for a stretch-4 that cannot stretch it out to the 3 point line is less than many of us guessed.
gyso
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back!
You wrote,
"26 year old Isaiah Thomas, who was the first person Danny called last summer when the balloon went up on free-agent hunting, for Thornton and our least valuable first rounder since it is useless unless Kyrie Irving and LeBron get into a knife fight. "
Danny wanted him then, but all we could use to sign him as a free agent was the NTP-MLE. Thomas signed with the Suns for a little bit more and now we have him locked up long term anyway. Win: Danny.
The 2016 first rounder from the Cavs would be projected to be a pick very late in the 1st round. Definite crap-shoot territory, plus since it is a 1st round pick, it is guaranteed. We have two 2016 second-rounders, one from Philadelphia 76ers and one from the Minnesota Timberwolves. I don't expect much of a turnaround from either of those teams, so the picks should both be very in the early 2nd round. Still crap-shoot territory, but for less money and non-guaranteed. Win: Danny
All that, and we still have Bass. Who would have guessed that? The market for a stretch-4 that cannot stretch it out to the 3 point line is less than many of us guessed.
gyso
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Re: Danny Does it Again. Something (in Fact, Plenty) for Nothing!
by RosalieTCeltics Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:37 pm
Welcome back my friend It is good to know are back on American soil!!!
So, looks like we got our wish, Steady Eddie Bass is still with us and it sounds like DA is going to sign him to another contract. Go figure.
Thomas looks like a good pick up and the other guys can take this time to show if they are really NBA worthy. D-leaguers?
Anyway, glad you are home, take your time de-compressing, and before you know it it will feel like you hardly went anywhere. Hope you had a great time, sounds like you did.
Rosalie
So, looks like we got our wish, Steady Eddie Bass is still with us and it sounds like DA is going to sign him to another contract. Go figure.
Thomas looks like a good pick up and the other guys can take this time to show if they are really NBA worthy. D-leaguers?
Anyway, glad you are home, take your time de-compressing, and before you know it it will feel like you hardly went anywhere. Hope you had a great time, sounds like you did.
Rosalie
RosalieTCeltics- Posts : 39981
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Age : 76
Re: Danny Does it Again. Something (in Fact, Plenty) for Nothing!
by worcester Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:07 pm
As I've always said, trust the Mormon.
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