Nate and Davis versus other backup PGs and PFs

I trolled BDC today, saw Dudder pop his head up and decided to hit it with a big mallet (Whack-a-Dudder). I'm providing the part of Dudder's post (in which he was responding to one of mine) that I then wrote a rebuttal to. This is on the "LA's vs top teams" thread at BDC, if you'd like to read in entirety.

I'm not posting this here to show me vs Dudder, but rather to provide some thoughts about how Davis and Nate are doing versus their peers.

First the excerpt from Dudder's post, for context, then my response to him.
_______________________________________________________________
When your best player off the bench is either a morbidly obese tweener or the
second shortest guy in the league that you just got from a team whose coach viewed
him as a cancer.... then you are talking about a bad bench.

_______________________________________________________________

Dudder,

Perhaps you didn't take the time to read my post carefully. I specifically said that Odom (and Shannon Brown) were excluded from my assessment of the Laker bench. However, since you've been so nice as to lean in and lift your chin for me, let me deliver some bad news about your "basketball acumen", or lack thereof.

As far as your characterizations of the Celtic bench players you refer to, they are completely non-basketball in nature. "A morbidly obese tweener"? "The second shortest player in the league"? Those are intelligent basketball assessments from you? Well, actually, maybe for you they are. I guess you thought HOFer Wes Unseld, at 6'7", 290# was a "morbidly obese tweener" too? As usual, your ability to inject irrelevancies and self-proclaimed priorities as part of your regular rebuttal efforts highlight your pre-set agenda. Unfortunately for you, we're not all dumb enough to fall for your game.

Glen Davis's numbers, per 36 minutes of play, versus other back up PF/Cs.

Glen Davis (Boston) ======= /> 12.7 ppg, 8.4rpg, 1.8apg, 1.0spg, .5blkspg
Lamar Odom (LA) ======= /> 12.0ppg, 11.3rpg, 4.0apg, 1.1spg, .9blkpg
Birdman Andersen (Denver) = /> 10.1ppg, 10.2rpg, .8apg, 1.1spg, 3.0blkpg
Brandon Bass (Orlando) ==== /> 15.8ppg, 6.8rpg, 1.0apg, .8spg, 1.4blkpg
Andersen Varejao (Cleveland) /> 10.8ppg, 9.7rpg, 1.3apg, 1.1spg, 1.2blkpg


So, Davis' performance/minute of play is in the ballpark with backup centers and power forwards on other high-quality teams. One important difference between Davis and those players is that those players are those teams' FIRST PF/C off the bench (or in the case of Odom and Varejao, have actually been starters), while Davis has not started for Boston this year even once, nor is he our first PF/C off the bench! All the above players are those teams' 6th or 7th player. Davis is our 9th player (Nate, a new Celtic who is working his way into the rotation, is averaging .6mpg less than Davis. My guess is that by the playoffs come around, he'll average more mpg than Davis, which would make Davis our 10th man). When your 9th player is faring well against other playoff teams' 6th or 7th men, YES DUDDER, that is evidence of a strong bench. Not bad for a "morbidly obese tweener", but maybe I just don't have that fine eye for critical skill sets that you claim to have.

As far as your observation of Nate's height goes, that is another example of your highly advanced and sophisticated basketball IQ on display. Wow. You're good.

Nate Robinson's numbers, per 36 minutes of play, versus other back up PGs.

Nate (Boston only #s) === /> 18.0ppg, 48% 3pt%, 4.2rpg, 3.3apg, 2.2spg
Jordan Farmar (LA) ===== /> 14.8ppg, 36.5% 3pt%, 3.1rpg, 3.2apg, 1.4spg
Jeff Teague (Atlanta) === /> 11.1ppg, 23% 3pt%, 3.3rpg, 6.1apg, 2.2spg
Delonte West (Cleveland) /> 12.6ppg, 35% 3pt%, 4.0rpg, 4.5apg, 1.4spg
Jayson Williams (Orlando) /> 10.9ppg, 38% 3pt%, 2.8rpg, 6.3apg, 1.2spg

Every single one of the other points guards have been playing with their teams for longer than Nate has been with the Celtics. Every one of them has been integrated into their offenses and knows their teammates preferences and Nate STILL has the highest scoring average, most rebounds/game and most steals per game. On the issue of 3pt shooting, which you have previously gone on record as saying is a "critical point guard skill set", Nate kills them all. None of them are even remotely close. But according to you, you big Dudder, he's another example of how the Celtics bench isn't strong, because he's the second shortest player in the league and that's really, really important. Right?

Mike D'Antoni viewed Nate as a cancer? How many championships has Mike D'Antoni won, despite having a pretty damn good Phoenix team together for years?

If I were you, I wouldn't put too much weight on other people's opinion about who is a "cancer", not on this board. You might not like some of the answers people will send you. Time to start backstroking, Dudder.

bob

Dudder is a TOTAL JOKE. It would not surprise me if it turned out that he were mentally challenged....or a Yankees fan.

If it helps to know more about him, Dudder is probably in his late 40s now. He lives on the South Shore of Boston. He's divorced and really loves his kids but has them only a portion of the time. The only discussions we're had in which I thought I was dealing with the real man (as opposed to an affectation) involved his kids.

He somehow became independently wealthy a while ago and doesn't have to work. For his Social Security number call.......

His situation seems to have made him a rather morose figure. I've personally invited him to several of our Celtics board functions, and he has refused. I once had an extensive on-board conversation with him in which I asked why he bothers to post and argue so much. His answer? "Its fun."

That sounds like a throwaway response, but I believe he basically likes to argue just for kicks. His gratification seems to come largely from riling people up. When the Celtics won the championship, he "mysteriously" disappeared for a considerable time.

He's certainly no idiot in discussing the Celtics or basketball. And he seems to delight in doing extensive research to develop his often-convoluted "rationales."

He is one of those posters who makes it a point not to attack people but, rather to present his case in a maddening convoluted way so as to provoke others into getting themselves into trouble. (If player A is top 10 and player B is top 8, that makes Player C Top Gun. Blah Blah.)

He's a character. But anyone who believes he's in a rational discussion with Dudder concerning the Boston Celtics is kidding himself. No offense, BobH; I think your response was masterful. Just expect the usual glib Marshmallow Fluff in retaliation.

Sam

sam,

I know I'm wasting my time if I think Dudder will ever admit he's wrong. Fortunately, I'm not that stupid.

There's a place where knowledgeable, polite basketball fans, most of whom are Boston Celtic fans, go. It's called Sam's Celtic Forum (I'd be happy to provide you with a link if you're interested).

Then there are places where largely basketball-illiterate bar fighters go.

Sometimes, I get tired just being nice. I just try to make sure I don't take it out on the good folk. :-)

Do you know that old joke about the two vultures, sitting on a tree, and one vulture turns to the other one and says "Patience, my ass. I'm going to kill something!". Well, sometimes I get so frustrated with the know-nothing numbnuts over at BDC I go there just to kill one of them. Dudder would be no loss. In fact, he's not even a speed bag. He's the heavy bag, the one that just hangs there looking stupid, and you hear the wind whistle out of when you make solid contact. That "ooph" sound.

To reiterate, I posted that here to shed some light on how two of our key bench players fare against their peers. I didn't edit the parts about Dudder out, so I felt I should include his lead-in for context. If people here really were impressed by Dudder's perspective, they'd be at BDC.

bob

Bob,

I understand perfectly. I always thought of Dudder in the same vein as ingesting some Drano to clean out my intestines.

Sam

sam,

More like Rain-o, since it's obvious Dudder doesn't know anything about 'D'.

bob