Bob Ryan disappointed in Smart

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/Bob-Ryan-Disappointed-with-how-its-turning-out-with-Marcus-Smart?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

Bob Ryan was a big fan of Marcus Smart in his first season with the Boston Celtics.

His opinion has changed a little bit in Smart’s second season.

“I thought he was a different type of guy. I saw in him as a young player last year, a leader to be, a real team leader type of guy. Not an agitator,” said Ryan. “He plays hard. We know that. But there’s a big difference than playing hard and being a jerk. He does have a disturbing tendency. The shot isn’t improving. I’m very disappointed because I was very much, as you say, an officer in the fan club.”

There is more in the video if you click on the link. I think we all wish Marcus would improve as a shooter, but is anyone else getting the same impression as Ryan Regarding Smart's character??? I'm not, and I watch a lot of games....

Shamrock1000 wrote:

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/Bob-Ryan-Disappointed-with-how-its-turning-out-with-Marcus-Smart?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

Bob Ryan was a big fan of Marcus Smart in his first season with the Boston Celtics.

His opinion has changed a little bit in Smart’s second season.

“I thought he was a different type of guy. I saw in him as a young player last year, a leader to be, a real team leader type of guy. Not an agitator,” said Ryan. “He plays hard. We know that. But there’s a big difference than playing hard and being a jerk. He does have a disturbing tendency. The shot isn’t improving. I’m very disappointed because I was very much, as you say, an officer in the fan club.”

There is more in the video if you click on the link. I think we all wish Marcus would improve as a shooter, but is anyone else getting the same impression as Ryan Regarding Smart's character??? I'm not, and I watch a lot of games....

shamrock,

I am.

He low-blowed Matt Bonner in a game. It was obvious that it was intentional. 1 game suspension.

He was fined $15k for making an obscene gesture in a game vs NYK.


bob


.

bobheckler wrote:

Shamrock1000 wrote:

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/Bob-Ryan-Disappointed-with-how-its-turning-out-with-Marcus-Smart?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

Bob Ryan was a big fan of Marcus Smart in his first season with the Boston Celtics.

His opinion has changed a little bit in Smart’s second season.

“I thought he was a different type of guy. I saw in him as a young player last year, a leader to be, a real team leader type of guy. Not an agitator,” said Ryan. “He plays hard. We know that. But there’s a big difference than playing hard and being a jerk. He does have a disturbing tendency. The shot isn’t improving. I’m very disappointed because I was very much, as you say, an officer in the fan club.”

There is more in the video if you click on the link. I think we all wish Marcus would improve as a shooter, but is anyone else getting the same impression as Ryan Regarding Smart's character??? I'm not, and I watch a lot of games....

shamrock,

I am.

He low-blowed Matt Bonner in a game.  It was obvious that it was intentional.  1 game suspension.

He was fined $15k for making an obscene gesture in a game vs NYK.


bob


.

Actually, now that I think more about it, I remember I was disappointed when he punched that guy in the balls last year - totally forgot about that. And you're correct about the 2 incidents you mention. Worth monitoring.

Was just one Celticsblog, reading an article about Marcus' shooting slump. The article doesn't offer much new insight, but I thought one of the comments after the article was kind of interesting:

Ainge signed the top defensive players he could bc relative to offensive stars (very hard to get), defensive stars are comparatively cheap.

That’s been a key to this rebuild! Marcus is Defense first. Bradley, Crowder, Amir and several others are either defense first or very balanced players (ie Turner).

IT is one of the few offensively focused guys, and per Danny’s point, he’s getting all the attention.

You need these defensive pit bulls. Danny knows it. We should all know it. Bob Ryan should know it.

Never judge Marcus by his offensive game. Even there, I think he’ll be absolutely fine in time.

TGIF

by Fred Roberts on Mar 25, 2016 | 11:50 AM

I thought the bit about Ainge hiring defensive studs based on a cost-benefit type of analysis was pretty astute - I never quite saw that aspect of it.

Heres the link in case anyones interested:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/3/25/11303736/discussing-marcus-smart-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad

Smart is a keeper!

A few things have happened to create a cloud of cynicism over his head but he is just a real high energy competitive player and he plays with an edge.


Smart continues to work hard and he just needs to develop more.  We need controlled aggression out of him. I am less concerned with his shooting than I am with his decision making (when to knock the crap out of a guy) He hates to lose and he hates not to play well. He is his own hardest critic.



dboss

Smart's rather poor shooting of late has drawn lots of attention. And, a lot of this attention has caused his few times of weak decision making rise to the forefront.

I am not really sure that a 22 year old player who is only finishing his second full season needs to be tossed under the bus at this time. Marcus has not shot well, but the rest of his game has grown considerably from last season. If you remember when he was injured earlier in the season that the team stumbled without him to the point that everyone (fans, coaches, GM and his teammates) was concerned that he would not get back onto the court soon enough.

His shooting will improve by next season (if not before this season ends) and he will be a part of group that challenges again for our next banner.

As far as comparing him to Rondo before he was traded, Smart hustles and plays hard ALL the time. Rondo was done for me when he was quoted as saying that he had not tried to play defense for a couple of seasons. Smart may never have Rondo's offensive skills but I will take him over Rondo EVERY day.

Is it time to put Marcus Smart in the Tony Allen category and just accept that is who he is?
Marcus is definitely not a point guard.
Playing shooting guard when you are one of the worst shooters in the league is also not a good position for him.
Boston probably needs to just embrace his defensive strengths.
Marcus will probably have to be switched out on offense and defense at the end of games.

Rondo is not a good comparison to Marcus.
Rondo was one of the top 5 pg's in the league in his prime.
He dominated games with huge triple doubles, even in the playoffs.
Marcus could get better, but some players just don't improve their shooting abilities too much.

wideclyde wrote:Smart's rather poor shooting of late has drawn lots of attention.  And, a lot of this attention has caused his few times of weak decision making rise to the forefront.

I am not really sure that a 22 year old player who is only finishing his second full season needs to be tossed under the bus at this time.  Marcus has not shot well, but the rest of his game has grown considerably from last season.   If you remember when he was injured earlier in the season that the team stumbled without him to the point that everyone (fans, coaches, GM and his teammates) was concerned that he would not get back onto the court soon enough.

His shooting will improve by next season (if not before this season ends) and he will be a part of group that challenges again for our next banner.

As far as comparing him to Rondo before he was traded, Smart hustles and plays hard ALL the time.  Rondo was done for me  when he was quoted as saying that he had not tried to play defense for a couple of seasons.  Smart may never have Rondo's offensive skills but I will take him over Rondo EVERY day.

Clyde,

I, for one, am happy that Rondo is gone and replaced with Jae Crowder, HOWEVER, his comment about not playing defense for a few years was meant as a compliment to Bradley and his defense.  What Rondo was saying is that, thanks to Bradley, he hasn't needed to play defense as much and could expend more energy on the offensive end.

Yes, Rondo's defense did decline, it was bad in Dallas and is now drawing notice in Sacto (read the 'Comments from the Other Side - Kings' thread) but the comment by him was taken a bit out of context.

There are players who don't play hard nor smart (see Howard, Dwight).  There are some players who play hard and smart.  There are other players who play hard but not very smart, they can't think their way past their emotions and rely heavily upon instinct.  His mistakes make me question if he is one of the third category.  I'm not ready to throw him under the bus, as you have pointed out he is only 22 and is finishing up only his sophomore year, but I would no longer consider him to be 'untouchable' in a trade scenario.  The value coming in would have to be significant, of course, but I'd take the call if I was Danny.  That is a change from my position last year and, even, from earlier this year.

His shooting is something else.  When was the last time you saw Smart get a 'shooter's bounce' on a shot?  They seem to either go straight in or the bounce off the rim HARD.  That's a lack of touch and/or maybe the result of poor mechanics thing.  How do you give a person with a poor shooter's touch good shooter's touch?  


bob


.

I appreciate defensive players. I was a defense-first player myself. But a guy who not only doesn't contribute much offensively and is in fact a liability at that end cannot ultimately be anything more than a spot role player on a championship contender.

In years past, you could hide a poor offensive player, though it's easier to do for a forward than a guard. But in today's pace-and-space game, a perimeter player who can't shoot will drag the entire offense down.

There are 283 NBA players who play at least 15 minutes per game and have played in at least 30 games. Among that group, Smart is the second worst in both field goal percentage and three-point percentage.

http://bkref.com/tiny/6FEQ0

You can live with that if you're satisfied being a middle-of-the-playoff-pack team in the Eastern conference, but for a team with higher aspirations, that won't cut it.

I compare myself to Nixon on this one."I hate the media." I love the edge Smart brings on D. I can deal with the few over the top rope issues . Hard to teach a softie to become hard but you can pull the reigns in on the other stuff.

Bob Ryan is off the mark on this one.

Marcus Smart is the type of strong defender this team needs in order to take the next step up.  His shooting has been better, and will probably pick up a bit again. That's not going to be his role with us, however, and that's why he's now a wing coming off the bench, and part of what amounts to a second unit group. It's not the role that was originally envisioned for him, but it is what has developed and it's a positive for this team.  There was one "behavior issue," but it's not a pattern.

You win championships with the depth, defense, and yes, the ability to add a little scoring from time-to-time that you get from a player like Marcus Smart.

I feel the comparisons to Tony Allen are solid. Though Smart may BECOME a better player on both ends than Allen. So for me that's his ceiling.

he's also best NOT being the primary ball handler.

now one thing I have been increasingly seeing that disturbs me, is the always complaining to the refs after each call or non call (in the players mind).

Smart, Turner and Sully are primary complainers that I see and all should just shut up and play the game.

Let Stevens get on the refs when needed, that's part of his job.

I hope you guys are wrong about the Tony Allen comparisons. I'll always have a soft spor for TA, but you should certainly hope for more with the 6th pick. I don't see an obvious comparison for Marcus.

Lets remember the kid is just legally eligible to drink !!

I'm not too concerned about any thing yet.

beat

With the pathetic offensive numbers that he is putting up he needs to have the the defensive game changer reputation of Bill Russell to justify anything more than role minutes off the bench. Fortunately he is still young and has the time to get his shooting up to a respectable level but for many its just not a teachable skill. Perhaps he will be the equivelent of Baseballs "Good field no hit". Time will tell.

 swish

Just a little comparison

At age 23 and in his second year with the C's our own John Havlicek shot .417 from the field
he lowered that the following year to .401 and then as a 25 YO in his 5th year in the league shot .399.

I don't think too many consider him to be a bust on the offensive end as things turned out.

Smart at the age of 23 ...oh wait he's only 21

Yes he is shooting at the real low mark of .343 from the field, after shooting .367 in his shortened rookie year. I'm willing to give him time to get this figured out.

Hondo never got above .450 till he was 29 !!

beat

beat wrote:Just a little comparison

At age 23 and in his second year with the C's our own John Havlicek shot .417 from the field
he lowered that the following year to .401 and then as a 25 YO in his 5th year in the league shot .399.

I don't think too many consider him to be a bust on the offensive end as things turned out.

Smart at the age of 23 ...oh wait he's only 21

Yes he is shooting at the real low mark of .343 from the field, after shooting .367 in his shortened rookie year. I'm willing to give him time to get this figured out.

Hondo never got above .450 till he was 29 !!

It's not a straightforward comparison across eras. FG percentage was lower then, for a variety of reasons.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

Even so, Smart's percentage is significantly lower than Havlicek's.

Can Smart improve his shooting? Yes. The point is that he has to improve or else he risks becoming relegated to a minor role with little impact on the team's future.

Outside wrote:

beat wrote:Just a little comparison

At age 23 and in his second year with the C's our own John Havlicek shot .417 from the field
he lowered that the following year to .401 and then as a 25 YO in his 5th year in the league shot .399.

I don't think too many consider him to be a bust on the offensive end as things turned out.

Smart at the age of 23 ...oh wait he's only 21

Yes he is shooting at the real low mark of .343 from the field, after shooting .367 in his shortened rookie year. I'm willing to give him time to get this figured out.

Hondo never got above .450 till he was 29 !!

It's not a straightforward comparison across eras. FG percentage was lower then, for a variety of reasons.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

Even so, Smart's percentage is significantly lower than Havlicek's.

Can Smart improve his shooting? Yes. The point is that he has to improve or else he risks becoming relegated to a minor role with little impact on the team's future.

 Here are the comparative numbers.

 Havlichek 1963-64 --  fg% .417 vs a league average of .433 --- Percentage difference of .016
 Smart      2015-16 --  fg% .343 vs a league average of .452 --- Percentage difference of .109

Not a very favorable comparison for Smart

 swish

BTW, I should have noted that even though I don't feel that Smart will become a good offensive player in the NBA , I wouldn't trade him.

I feel his defensive ability's will have him on the all defensive team for years and he CAN change games on that end alone.

his shot WILL improve I feel over time, but I don't think he'll ever be a very good shooter.

I said I felt his Ceiling was a better Tony Allen, but when he was drafted I said he could be another Dennis Johnson.

he could still become that type of player, eventually.

I think we'd all be very happy if Smart would fall somewhere between Allen and Johnson as a Celtic.

There is room on any team for an elite level defender.

And since the Celtics have amble opportunity to add more shooters, Smart is and will continue to be a vital part of what this team needs to do at the defensive end. Let us not under value defensive impact. After all 1/2 of the game is played on the defensive side of the ball and it is not like Smart does not provide offense.

I totally disagree with Ryan's opinion.

dboss

Smart is now 22 years old.
He hasn't been a good shooter at all in 2 years of college ball and 2 years in the pros.
He is a good rotation player, but will probably never be a starter in the NBA because he's not a PG or SG and he probably won't be one of the two best guards on whatever team he plays for.

Outside wrote:I appreciate defensive players. I was a defense-first player myself. But a guy who not only doesn't contribute much offensively and is in fact a liability at that end cannot ultimately be anything more than a spot role player on a championship contender.

In years past, you could hide a poor offensive player, though it's easier to do for a forward than a guard. But in today's pace-and-space game, a perimeter player who can't shoot will drag the entire offense down.

There are 283 NBA players who play at least 15 minutes per game and have played in at least 30 games. Among that group, Smart is the second worst in both field goal percentage and three-point percentage.

http://bkref.com/tiny/6FEQ0

You can live with that if you're satisfied being a middle-of-the-playoff-pack team in the Eastern conference, but for a team with higher aspirations, that won't cut it.

I would agree with all that except if that bad offensive player is a defensive stopper/stud then he is still able to contribute to winning which Smart does. I think Smart is all NBA defensive level even if he doesn't get the recognition this year. He is in a shooting slump right now, his offense can only get better, he has much better ball handling and point guard skills than TA and he is similar to TA in that they are both same size and able to cover the 1 to 3 at a very high tenacious level.

beat wrote:I compare myself to Nixon on this one."I hate the media."   I love the edge Smart brings on D.  I can deal with the few over the top rope issues .  Hard to teach a softie to become hard but you can pull the reigns in on the other stuff.  

good point, you think coaches haven't given best instruction to KO or Zeller? they will never be even average defensive players, but Smart could/will eventually get better on offense.

NYCelt wrote:Bob Ryan is off the mark on this one.

Marcus Smart is the type of strong defender this team needs in order to take the next step up.  His shooting has been better, and will probably pick up a bit again. That's not going to be his role with us, however, and that's why he's now a wing coming off the bench, and part of what amounts to a second unit group. It's not the role that was originally envisioned for him, but it is what has developed and it's a positive for this team.  There was one "behavior issue," but it's not a pattern.

You win championships with the depth, defense, and yes, the ability to add a little scoring from time-to-time that you get from a player like Marcus Smart.

totally agree with everything on this post and Bob Ryan has morphed into an old man that is annoying as hell sometimes.