POST GAME GOLDEN STATE

STUDS AND DUDS: CELTICS SHOCK WARRIORS, END LONGEST HOME WINNING STREAK IN PRO SPORTS HISTORY

WEEI

By Mike Petraglia

The Celtics pulled off the unthinkable Friday night in epic fashion.

Playing without Jae Crowder, Boston got 22 points from Isaiah Thomas, 21 points from Evan Turner and 20 points and 12 rebounds from Jared Sullinger to lead the Celtics to a 109-106 win over the Golden State Warriors at Oracle Arena, ending the longest home winning streak in major pro sports history.

Steph Curry got a clean look in the final seconds at a potential game-tying three. The shot rimmed out and the Celtics had their best win of the season and the signature win of the three-year Brad Stevens era.

The Warriors, who committed 22 turnovers, had won 54 straight regular season games on their home and hadn’t lost on their home court since Jan. 27, 2015, when they fell in overtime to the Bulls. The Warriors last lost on their home court in Game 2 of the NBA finals last June to the Cavaliers. The win also avenges Boston’s heartbreaking double-overtime loss to the Warriors on Dec. 11 at TD Garden.

It was just Golden State’s eighth loss of the season, dropping them to 68-8 on the season. They must win five of their final six games to break the record of the 1996 Chicago Bulls.

The win improves the Celtics to 44-32 on the season and pull to within a half-game of the Hawks (45-32), who lost in overtime to the Cavaliers Friday night.

The Warriors came out gunslinging. Their first three field goals were 3-pointers, racing out to leads of 6-0 and 9-4. But that gunslinging mentality also led to six turnovers in the first six minutes, five of which were committed by Steph Curry.

Thanks to great defense from Avery Bradley, Isaiah Thomas and Marcus Smart, the Celtics were able to hold the combination of Curry and Klay Thompson scoreless until Curry’s 3 with 4.3 seconds left in the first quarter, a trey that gave the Warriors a 23-21 lead after the opening 12 minutes. The Warriors finished the first quarter with eight turnovers.

The Celtics were killing themselves at the free throw line, missing six of their first 11 attempts. The Warriors took a 35-28 lead but the Celtics scored the next eight points to take a one-point lead, capped by an Evan Turner three with 3:01 left in the first half. Curry’s second three ended the Celtics’ run. The Warriors continued their remarkably sloppy play with the ball in the second quarter, committing five more turnovers and 13 for the first half. Avery Bradley’s three with 2.3 seconds left in the first half gave Boston a 45-43 lead heading to the locker room.

Curry had just two field goals (both threes) and six points in the first half, while committing seven turnovers.


What was even more remarkable was the scoreless first half by Isaiah Thomas, the Celtics’ top scorer who came in with two 14-game streaks. For 14 straight games, Thomas led the Celtics in scoring (a new franchise record) and in each game, he had scored at least 20 points, two games shy of Paul Pierce’s 16-game streak in the 2005-06 season.

Curry opened the second half with his third and fourth threes of the game in the opening 63 seconds, putting Golden State up, 49-45, and prompting a quick timeout from Brad Stevens. Thomas followed that up with his first points of the night, a layup followed by a floater to tie the game, 49-49. Thomas then connected a pair of free throws for a 51-49 Celtics lead.

Thomas and Curry put on an epic display of scoring showmanship for the rest of the quarter. Curry hit seven threes in the quarter and finished with 21 points in the period. But Thomas went from being scoreless to having 18 points after three periods, helping Boston to an 82-79 lead heading into the fourth.

Evan Turner’s pullup from eight feet put the Celtics up, 88-83, with 10:04 left. Smart’s layup put the Celtics ahead, 90-83, just 30 seconds later. Smart hit a three with 8:35 left to put the Celtics ahead, 93-83. The Celtics led 95-85 when Leandro Barbosa hit a three that cut the lead down to 95-88 with 6:19 left. Jared Sullinger’s two free throws with 5:37 left put Boston back up nine, 97-88. But the Warriors went on a run.

Draymond Green’s put back cut Boston’s lead to three, 99-96, with 3:58 left. The Warriors were on the verge of a fast-break layup when Bradley stole the ball in transition from Brandon Rush and fed Thomas for a layup with 3:22 left, putting Boston up, 101-96. Turner’s turnaround with 2:11 left put the Celtics up, 103-96. Thompson hit a three to make it 103-99. After a Boston miss, Curry went the length of the court for a layup that made it 103-101. But Turner responded with a jumper with 1:16 left to put the lead back to four, 105-101. With a chance to tie, Green committed Golden State’s 22nd turnover of the night with 23.9 seconds left.

The Celtics wrap up the five-game Western road trip Sunday night with a return trip to the Staples Center and a matchup with Kobe Bryant and the Lakers. Assuming Bryant plays, it will be the final meeting between the future Hall of Famer and the Celtics, a rivalry that dates back to 1996.

For a complete box score, click here. To go beyond the box, read on.

STUD OF THE NIGHT: Evan Turner

His clutch shots down the stretch sealed the upset.

DUD OF THE NIGHT: None

On a night where it took a complete team effort to shock the defending world champs, everyone contributed in some form or fashion.


WHINE OF THE NIGHT: The free throw shooting woes continued. They started off missing 11 of their first 21 attempts at the charity stripe before making eight of their final nine to finish 19 of 30 at the line. Amir Johnson was 1-of-5 from the line.
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Celtics find long-missing poise in statement win over Warriors

ESPNBOSTON

Chris Forsberg

ESPN Staff Writer

OAKLAND, Calif. -- Boston Celtics coach Brad Stevens rarely shows emotion on the sideline, but maybe sensing that his team needed one last jolt of late-game confidence as the Golden State Warriors made a feverish rally trying to preserve both a 54-game home winning streak and their quest for an NBA record 73 wins this season, he did. Stevens wouldn't let his team even consider the notion that its lead might slip away.

"[Stevens] kept saying, 'Look, this is ours. We’re going to win it,'" said Celtics point guard Isaiah Thomas, whose layup with 8.3 seconds remaining -- the result of a needle-threading inbound pass from second-year guard Marcus Smart, coupled with a pair of last-gasp misses by the Warriors, allowed Boston to emerge with a heart-stopping 109-106 triumph at Oracle Arena.

Added Thomas: "[Stevens] showed more emotion than usual."

The Celtics, music thumping inside the visitor's locker room at Oracle Arena, likewise exulted after a statement win against the league's defending champs. Boston had taken the Klay Thompson-less Warriors to double overtime back in December at TD Garden before the Warriors prevailed. The Celtics, even as they challenge for a spot in the top half of the Eastern Conference playoff ladder, have lacked a real statement victory in recent weeks.

Until Friday night. Thomas scored all of his team-high 22 points in the second half, dueling throughout a mesmerizing third quarter with Steph Curry, who finished with eight 3-pointers but missed with a chance to tie the game in the frenetic final seconds.

Thomas, Boston's 5-foot-9 All-Star who has now scored 20-point points in 15 straight games, beamed inside the locker room at Boston's ability to take down the NBA's Goliath. Having let a win slip away the night before in Portland, in part because of Thomas' miscues, and in the midst of a four-team dogfight for a top playoff spot in the Eastern Conference, Thomas gushed about the way the Celtics responded and the confidence they can find in this win.

"We know we can beat the best teams in the league," Thomas said. "In our schedule, we beat a lot of the top teams. And we know we can compete. And we know we’re a team that guys don’t really want to play when it comes to the playoffs, just because of how we play and how hard we play."

Inside Boston's locker room, Celtics players were stumping for Avery Bradley to earn All-Defense first team honors, particularly the way he harassed the likes of Damian Lillard and Curry on consecutive nights. Smart, who had been mired in a terrible offensive slump, drew a big media crowd for the mark he left on both ends of the court on this game.

Yes, there was a newfound buzz in Boston's locker room, as if Friday's game reminded the Celtics what this group is capable of.

"I think it’s great for the organization, for the team," Jared Sullinger said. "We understand that’s a great basketball team over there. And they’re chasing history. And so they’re playing great, and we came out with a win. It was a good game. It was a great game. If anybody was watching that game, they loved it because it was just a back-and-forth type of basketball game. And it’s special."

The Celtics withstood multiple bouts of adversity, whether it was Draymond Green's red-hot shooting in the opening minute, or Thomas' offensive funk for much of the first half. And despite playing without Jae Crowder, maybe the nerve center of the team's defense, who had returned to game action following a three-week absence on Thursday night, Boston never believed it didn't have a chance to beat the Warriors.

And maybe that belief is what inspired Stevens to provide a little extra fire at the end of the game.

"Of course [Stevens] was fired up. At the end of the game, he was fired up," Bradley said. "We were all fired up. We all wanted to come in here and get a win. I feel like a lot of teams might come in here and just play hard and hope to win. We knew we were gonna win since the beginning of the game. You don’t understand, in the timeout, we were telling each other, like, we’re gonna win this game, the entire game."

By the time Stevens emerged to talk with the media, he was back to his even-keeled self. He expressed appreciation for the way his team bounced back from Thursday's loss and withstood Golden State's charges.

But asked if the magnitude of the opponent suggested any more progress than usual, Stevens closed his media session by offering, "Progress is not in the result. The progress was in the poise."

112288

If you do not think this game has an affect on next year's free agency..........think again!

This game sells Boston and Brad Stevens.

Danny....all you have to do is sit back and open your check book.......the stars will come to you now!

112288

I had a gut feeling that the Celtics were going to win this game. A most impressive win coming off the Portland loss.

Add 2 more shooters and another big and the Celtics will be contenders.

dboss

This was a good, hard fought win for Boston.
In reality, it's one win that probably won't have anything to do with next year.
Golden State hasn't been playing great basketball lately. They got blown out by Portland and the Lakers and just won in overtime against Utah.
If Boston loses to the Lakers tomorrow night, does that water down the importance of this win?
None of us have any idea what Durant will do this summer. It's just not realistic to try to predict how each team will do in free agency.

Is this not one of the best Celtics teams to root for, ever? I'm not saying it's one of the best Celtics teams ever, but it is one of the best to root for. These guys are all heart and hustle. What a superb bunch of guys, playing like a team as our Sam would have most dearly wished. Dick up in heaven, I hope you tuned in for this one!

What a fun game (we won, ergo it was "fun".  Any other result limits it to no more than "close" or "competitive" or "good", possibly "great".  If we had lost a close one, against that team, I would have bestowed the moniker of "great" on it, because of the elite quality of the competition but it still wouldn't have been "fun".  Losing is never fun.).  I watched it from a bar called Paul & Eddy's in Cupertino, near the Apple campus.  The place is divey, but the crowd was geeky.  That's because geeks like to think that hanging around places that real people hang out means they are real people too.  Only a geek would think that.  At first I think they thought every time I punched the air when the Celtics scored or made a stop I was angry but eventually they figured out those were expressions of joy (the little yips and jigs I would do when GSW turned the ball over probably helped it to sink into their massively analytical but socially awkward brains).  After the game I made a point of going to each of them and shaking their hands and saying "good game", which pissed them off to no end because it reminded them GSW lost and we're not used to that out here, not this year.  Geeks might not be good in the real world with real people but they are still highly competitive, in their Big Bang Theory type of way.  I can be such an evil putz sometimes.  :-)




Before the game I was told by my friend (who would have carefully picked up his drink, moved out of the way and let me take on the whole bar if the geeks decided to do something non-digital about me.  All they ended up doing was texting each other insulting comments about me when they were standing right next to each other) that there is only one NBA team that the Dubs have NOT beaten by more than 5 points in the last two seasons and that team is the Boston Celtics.  Last night one streak ended but another one continued.  I think we deserve some credit for ending their earlier continuous win streak too.  Technically Milwaukee ended that streak, but that was the 2nd game of a back-to-back where the first game was the 2OT in Boston.  We lifted GSW's chin so that the Bucks could get a clean shot at it.

Jeez, where to begin?

1.  We shot 47%.  I'm really having trouble wrapping my mind around that, even more so than the win itself.  Sure, the win is YUGE (to quote a presidential candidate) and we've been tough on them before, but 47%?  Wow.  The question is "why can't we do that more often?".  I mean, it's not like the now 68-8 Golden State Warriors are a poor defensive team.

2.  Curry and IT both had horrible first halfs and then both of them went off in the 3rd.  18, I think, for IT and 21 for Curry on 7 3ptrs.  Curry is unreal.  What you all saw in the 3rd quarter is what I've been watching all year.  He hits one to break the seal and feel it, from anywhere, and 3s become like layups to him.  I've seen a lot of shooters in my life, a lot of great shooters, but I think he takes the cake.  MJ and Kobe could shoot, but they also relied heavily upon their athleticism to get the extra inch or two of separation to get off the shot.  Curry does it all with skill.  His ballhandling that has the defender tripping over their own feet and that flick-of-the-wrist release that gets it away so fast.  I will say this again:  Steph Curry wasn't shooting like that when he first came into the league.  Good, Hell yes.  Great?  Maybe, but not off-the-hook sick like he is now.  It should give hope to RJ and other young'uns.  A lot of people seem to be oohing and ahhing about Bradley's defense on Curry, and he played about as good as one can, but Curry still scored 29 points on 9-19 including a "did you read that correctly?" 8-14 from 3.  Yep, I read that correctly.  8-14, 57%.  And that's what people are saying was after what should be first team All-Defense pressure from Bradley.  So, I guess with any lesser mortal guarding him he would have gone off for 60.  He also had 9 TOs, and that might be the key point of this game.

3.  Sully does love big games, doesn't he?  20 points and 12 boards, even 2-2 from 3.  A solid game against the much bigger Bogut.  I will give Bogut credit for one thing, though, he did start going out to the arc to cover Sully, which is more than Whiteside and Gobert did.  That was, however, just what Brad wanted.  Drag their bigs away from the basket.  Major ganas by Sully.  He wanted this win, bad, and he played like it.

4.  Amir worked hard, did some nice glue stuff, but his awkwardness and fall down almost cost us the game with that last TO that Draymond Green was able to take.  Kelly is another one who looked like he had 2 left feet.

5.  I think I gotta give the game ball to Turner.  I've been as critical, if not more so, as anybody of his game all year but when he plays like this he turns me inside out.  He was SO clutch last night.  5 TOs is too many, and would normally have me calling him Evan Turnover, but he did so many other good things I'm willing to forget about them.  One big, clutch basket after another.  Steal, then another, then another.  His Jack-of-all-trades-but-the-master-of-none game might make him a permanent 6th man, but a helluva 6th man.

6.  Smart played a good game too.  I've been down on him too but last night he did a lot of good things.  Pinpoint passes for 6 assists and only 2 TOs.  3-7 shooting isn't great, although MUCH better than usual for him, but he had 5 points in the 4th when we were struggling to score that were very clutch.  He has ganas, serious ganas, he needs to improve his offensive skills and learn how not to lose his head in key moments on defense.

7.  Excellent experience for Rozier, to get meaningful minutes in a game with playoff intensity against the best team in the league (arguably one of the best teams ever, based upon their record).  You cannot buy experience like that.  I thought he played quite well too.  I cannot understand why he doesn't use his crossover dribble more, but one thing he is exceptional at, especially at 6'2", is rebounding.  He is a great rebounding guard.  He had 5 boards in 17 minutes.  He has a nose for the ball.  I told my friend he has a 6'9" wingspan and he stared at me.  Then I told him Bradley's was over 6'8" and he blinked.  Danny might have a blind spot for NBA centers but, with the exception of alligator-armed offensive player Kelly Olynyk, he is a hound dog for players with wingspans like California Condors.  The average human being has a wingspan that is 2" longer than their height.  The average NBA player has a wingspan that is 4" longer than their height (and they are taller overall).  Rondo, 6'1", with a 6'9" wingspan; Bradley, 6'2" with a 6'8"+ wingspan; Rozier, 6'2" with a 6'9" wingspan;  Mickey, 6'8" with a 7'3" wingspan.  So, they are all deceptively tall but they have the speed of the smaller man.  It's like having a 4-cylinder car with a turbo.  They are going to compete well against other 4-cylinder cars and do surprisingly well against normal 6-cylinder cars.

8.  Bogut left the game after a collision with Bradley (which I thought should have been a moving screen foul on Bogut.  My friend, a lifelong Warriors fan, disagreed.  He said they were both moving so no foul.  Huh?  The defender is expected to run after his man, it's the defense's responsibility to stand still and hold position on a pick.  And this is a guy with a high BBIQ.  He just wigged out because the 260# Bogut went to the locker room after colliding with 180# Bradley, who stayed in the game. He bought me a Guinness and I forgave him his sins.  I'm easy that way).  He had 1 block.  The Dubs had 7, with 5 of the remaining 6 coming from players 6'8" and shorter.  Only Mo Buckets, who is 6'10", had a block.  6'8" Draymond Green led the Dubs with 2 blocks, everybody else had no more than 1 block.  My point?  7 blocks, 5 by wings, guards and swings and one of the blocks by a big is NOT a rim protector.  The Celtics had 1 block, we outshot them, we scored more points in the paint than them (48-30) and we held them to 45.8% on the game when their season average is good for #2 in the league at 48.6%.  Maybe there are other things to consider when rating a defense.  

And when they went small, by necessity with Bogut out, our lead shrank.

9.  GSW leads the league with 20.7 fast break points per game.  We are 6th with 16.0.  Last night we beat them at their own game 16-11.  Some of that were some overly aggressive passes and some of that was just getting back.  

There has been talk, in general and on this board, that we aren't that good because
A)  Our wins are coming against inferior teams.
B)  Our losses are coming against playoff teams.
C)  We're a team of wusses without Jae Crowder.
D)  We're too short.
E)  We don't have enough rim protection and interior beef.

There has been a stretch where all those were true.  Last night proved there are other ways to win and that with good execution, respectable shooting and an active and aggressive defense, we can beat even the best of the best.  6 games left and we are already 4 wins ahead of last year with only Amir as being a significant addition and, with all due respect to him, he's not worth 4 wins +.  We're doing well, bumps in the road notwithstanding, we're just not doing it with a traditional looking roster.  We are, however, doing with a traditional style.  An active and aggressive defense coupled with an uptempo offense was the hallmark of the Russell Celtics.  Do we need talent upgrades?  Sure, but this season's improvements and the win last night proves the principle, in my opinion.  If we were to meet the Warriors again in the playoffs (and that would have to be the Finals, which would be glorious for us!) we'd be lucky to win one game.  I wouldn't take this game as being evidence of us being ready to take them on.  Having said that, winning a game is one more than we did last year and the Warriors are a better team than the Cavaliers, especially this year.  Winning this game, even though it's just another game, is immensely valuable from a player and team development perspective.  It's like a gold nugget that you had to dig for and earn.

I'll say one more thing:  I pity every team the Dubs face for the rest of this year, including the playoffs.  This loss came, in a way, at a good time for the Warriors but a very bad time for their opponents.  I predict the Warriors are now going to go on a tear until it's over.  The reason why they are so good this year is because they play every game like it's a playoff game and, on the rare occasions they have lost, they have proceeded to punish every team of poor bastards that were unlucky to be schedule next until their next loss.  Then they refocus and seek vengeance anew.





I haven't written a long diatribe like this on a post-game thread in a while because I felt like I was sucking all the air out of the thread and not leaving much for others to opine on, but after this thrilling and FUN game I just had to let loose one more time.

Your turn.


bob


.

Bob

your words........ Losing is never fun.).

that is a BIG reason a guy like Cousins needs to be out of a loosing culture...i did some quick checking and 75% of his techs have come in loosing games of course that is on par with their season I suppose.

What I liked best sure we seemed pretty thrilled at the end but it was a controlled celebration cause there is so much more to do.........what a reflection on the coach and staff cause we do have so much more to accomplish this year and certainly next.

And we need to keep Turner he's just getting better and better.

beat

I am firmly on the Turner bandwagon, have been for about a month and a half. It is time to realize that this guy has found the team he belongs on, with a spot on the second team to bring the energy needed to get them going if the first team sputters. It has taken a while, but, give credit where credit is due. This guy has personally been responsible for several wins in the second half of the season. He still can frustrate you at times but, makes up for it. He is a smart guy, it has just taken a while to find is niche.

Thomas, what can you say about him? I was totally frustrated in the first half. He could not get a bucket or even a decent call when he deserved it. He was struggling from the free throw line, where he has been so steady. Then the second hallf came and we watched a true superstar in action. He found a way to get himself untracked. He walked by Scal and whispered "it only takes one shot to get me going" and he was right. What a cocky, talented player. He is proving to all that he is for real.

Every guy had some hand in this win, Jerebko hit a shot that kept them in the game, Kelly, Sully, boy does he bask in the glory of big games.

This game was fun! These young guys have given us alot of hope that we are not that far away from Glory Days. I love this team and am going to be sad to see some of them gone boy next year. Danny has done a
great job so far and the best is yet to come. Kevin Durant? He would be smart to come here, a wonderful organization, a great coach and a team that he can help over the top and get that ring he so desires.

Dreaming? Yup? But I have been a Celtic dreamer since the 1960's, I watched them win titles when no one said they could. Why not again??????

Rosalie

Somewhere on this site recently I rather negatively lit into the Celtics and their current play and remaining games and implied they would probably go 0-2 against Portland and GSW on this back-to-back.

Please forgive me for my shortsightedness. True Celtic fans know better. That victory certainly got the attention of the entire league. They are still currently in 6th but tied with ATL.

I'm not smart enough to figure out if 3rd Place is theirs to win or lose. I know they play ATL, MIA and CHA so clearly they have to beat all three of them and more than likely not lose any of the remaining games vs. LAL, MIL and NOP.

It does look like the @ATL game per Matty on Final Kick thread will be the one that determines our seed. Hopefully, someone like TNT or ESPN will pick that up for all of us to see.

Can anyone determine quickly if there is a scenario where we get 3rd?

db

At the start oc the year i opined that Turner was our best player. Now he probably follows Jae, IT, AB, and perhaps Sully. Still he is a keeper at the right price.

I'm also going to assume GSW now hopes they see CLE instead of BOS in the finals.

db

bob

Great win, I beg to differ I do think our 2 games against GS shows me evidence we are or can take them on and be very competitive in a 7 game series, having said that don't fool yourself we still need better big man rim protection, but maybe not against this team. They don't have a dominating scoring big like a Towns or Cousins that can abuse us in the paint. They have necessary rim protection, but their offense is all the new era space and pace and 3's. They are writing the book on that style and as shown in these games that is also one of our strengths, sure we didn't shut Curry down, but he had how many turnovers?

In boxing styles make fights, George Foreman would knock out Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, and Ali would struggle against them, but Ali would beat Foreman every time....so we are one of the few teams with the necessary elite backcourt defenders to create some havoc against them and we play at a fast pace also, we can run with them and have the depth to run and defend hard on them.....notice I'm not using any stats LOL. Next year if we can improve or acquire better 3 point shooting, we could be right there with them and I'm not saying were gonna win 65-70 games, I'm just saying styles make fights and anybody who follows boxing would agree with me. We might have their number in a way every game would be like these 2 games and hopefully were gonna get even better.

cow

can somebody please punch Draymond Green?

Cow, you are so right. It's all about the matchups, and we matchup very well with GSW, but not so wll against the Cavs and Spurs. Why? Cause we lack a big 5.

worcester wrote:Cow, you are so right. It's all about the matchups, and we matchup very well with GSW, but not so wll against the Cavs and Spurs. Why? Cause we lack a big 5.

Thanks worse when you go on your trip with bob, maybe you can ask him why he always tries to give me a hard time? doesn't he know I'm always right.

cowens/oldschool wrote:bob

Great win, I beg to differ I do think our 2 games against GS shows me evidence we are or can take them on and be very competitive in a 7 game series, having said that don't fool yourself we still need better big man rim protection, but maybe not against this team. They don't have a dominating scoring big like a Towns or Cousins that can abuse us in the paint. They have necessary rim protection, but their offense is all the new era space and pace and 3's. They are writing the book on that style and as shown in these games that is also one of our strengths, sure we didn't shut Curry down, but he had how many turnovers?

In boxing styles make fights, George Foreman would knock out Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, and Ali would struggle against them, but Ali would beat Foreman every time....so we are one of the few teams with the necessary elite backcourt defenders to create some havoc against them and we play at a fast pace also, we can run with them and have the depth to run and defend hard on them.....notice I'm not using any stats LOL. Next year if we can improve or acquire better 3 point shooting, we could be right there with them and I'm not saying were gonna win 65-70 games, I'm just saying styles make fights and anybody who follows boxing would agree with me. We might have their number in a way every game would be like these 2 games and hopefully were gonna get even better.

cow

cow,

Our 2OT loss to them was at the end of a very long, hard road trip for them.  I can't remember the exact number but there were a lot of games in a short period.  Our game was the next-to-last game on that road trip, so the 2nd game against Milwaukee was them digging down deep for resources, after digging down deep to hold us off.

Last night we did well, I'm just not going to get TOO giddy about it.  They were without Iggy AND Ezeli.

If bigs are what it's all about then why isn't Minny, with Towns and Dieng, or Sacto with Cousins and WCS and Koufos, going to be in the playoffs?  The age of the dinosaur is over.  Today's bigs need to be long, but mobile.  They have to be able to run someone off the 3pt arc and then keep going and outrun a guard to the other end.  They need to go out to the 3pt arc, to challenge a shooter, and still be quick enough to get back into the action when the ball is moved around quickly with passes so it can be dumped in when the passing angle opens up.  Pure beef isn't where it's at anymore since defenders are SO quick and long they can swarm a player in the low blocks before they can do much.  Shaq would have a tough time nowadays because his style was to just bounce his man back into the 3rd row with his butt and then get a layup.  He'd have a ridiculously long SF (e.g. Jonas Jerebko, Kevin Durant, Paul George) doubling him, and then getting back on defense when Shaq passed out to the perimeter.  He, Shaq, wouldn't be able to get 4+ dribbles in before he was swarmed.  I know he was getting doubled back then, but when he passed out the defense couldn't recover fast enough.  Now, they do.

GSW is the best team in the NBA, one of the best ever.  They are a perimeter, guard/wing/swing oriented team as opposed to the traditional "feed the beast down low" style.  If we match up well with them, like you are saying, then we're heading in the right direction.

Danny has done a pretty good job of gazing into a crystal ball and predicting this change.  He tried to get in on the front end of it by swapping thunder lizard Kendrick Perkins for new era velociraptor Jeff Green.  He just forgot that velociraptors are cold-blooded lizards too and aren't hungry all the time like warm-blooded mammals.  Right idea, even the right talent and skill sets, just no ganas.

So, he had to hit the reset button again.

Jahlil Okafur is a throwback to the thunder lizard epoch.  He's a beast down low.  The problem Philly is having problems, and why they were supposedly even talking about trading him, is because his game and Noel's aren't symbiotic.  They are both almost exclusively paint players, and that's not today's game.  30 years ago, in the mid-80s (yes, it's 30 years), they'd be a pair made in heaven.

I think Jordan Mickey is going to solve a lot of our problems.  If he was 3" taller, he'd be perfect, but he isn't.  He does, however, fit the modern mold of today's bigs.  He can shoot from outside.  He's 35% from 3 in D-league this year.  I am not as impressed with his 53% 2pt fg% because those interior points are against smaller, inferior talent, but a 3 is a 3 is a 3 and bigs tend to have an extra beat or two of time to shoot because their defenders don't want to come ALL the way out like a guard would.

You're right, styles make fights, but belts are the measurement of the success of a style.  Ali did struggle against Norton and Frazier but how many championships did Norton and Frazier win?  Frazier won two, I think, but one of them was given to him after Ali was stripped of his title because of his position against the Vietnam War.  Norton never won one.  Ali won 3x.  You can love the puncher (Smokin' Joe has always been one of my all-time favorites, actually) but the boxer won more times than not.  Not an actual boxer but Rocky (played by Sly Stallone) won his championship being a puncher.  Then he got KO'd by Clubber Lang (played by Mr T) and then went into training to learn how to become a boxer.  The style I want for the Celtics is the style that wins, whatever it may be.  I can adapt to winning "weirdly" a lot faster than I can to losing "my way".



bob


.

Oh yeah Cow, I am gonna tell Bob in one sentence why we need a big and have to listen to his retort for three days and 33 miles. Yeah, sure I am gonna do that.

worcester wrote:Oh yeah Cow, I am gonna tell Bob in one sentence why we need a big and have to listen to his retort for three days and 33 miles. Yeah, sure I am gonna do that.

LMAO, worse can you remind bob how Sacto with Cousins, Timberwolves with Towns and Spurs with Aldridge and Duncan crushed us in games this year, by going inside very often. Records don't always measure who is going to win, alot of times its match ups and styles. Also if doubling down on a big is so effective to stop them, how come it didn't work for us in match ups with those teams I just mentioned. We have great perimeter and wing defenders, is Stevens not a good coach, maybe he needs Heckler to tell him to double down on the big?

Sure wish Jordan Mickey had played more. I'd like to see what he'd do against Townes or Cousins. I'd still like to see Cousins in green playing alongside Durant. Think Sacto would take Kelly and our Nets pick?

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:
In boxing styles make fights, George Foreman would knock out Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, and Ali would struggle against them, but Ali would beat Foreman every time....

You're right, styles make fights, but belts are the measurement of the success of a style.  Ali did struggle against Norton and Frazier but how many championships did Norton and Frazier win?  Frazier won two, I think, but one of them was given to him after Ali was stripped of his title because of his position against the Vietnam War.  Norton never won one.  Ali won 3x.  You can love the puncher (Smokin' Joe has always been one of my all-time favorites, actually) but the boxer won more times than not.



bob


.

Cow and Bob,

Off topic from hoops, but setting The Ring record straight.

I know Cowens boxed, as did I, and we both consider ourselves students of The Sweet Science, so a couple of minor points…

Norton did hold two heavyweight titles, the NABF, by TKO over Jerry Quarry, and the WBC, which was awarded retroactively for his win over Jimmy Young in a title elimination fight when Leon Spinks was stripped for not fighting Norton.  Spinks at the time decided to give his first title defense against Ali, which was against WBC rules since Norton was ranked as top contender.

Ali fought Foreman once, and beat him by outsmarting him.  Ali let Foreman punch himself out.  After Foreman's arms got heavy in the third, Ali turned it around.  Ali is famously quoted as tying Foreman up in the seventh and whispering in his ear "Is that all you got George?" and "My turn."  The fight was called by TKO in the eighth.  Hard to say if Ali would beat him again.  Ali's strategy was known only to him.  He told Angelo Dundee that he had a plan on his way in to the ring, but Dundee didn't know what it was.  Ali is probably my favorite athlete ever, but I always thought if there had been a rematch, with any coaching, Foreman would have had the advantage.  Ali's "Rope-A-Dope" was brilliant, but probably a one-time thing.

Anyway, I'm picking at really minor things here; back to basketball…

It was a nice win, and a statement on how far we've come.  I wouldn't get too carried away, we've still got a lot of growing to do.  Still the win was well earned and I would agree with Worcester on both his points; this is a very enjoyable team to root for and Dick would be thrilled.

Regards

NYCelt wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:
In boxing styles make fights, George Foreman would knock out Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, and Ali would struggle against them, but Ali would beat Foreman every time....

You're right, styles make fights, but belts are the measurement of the success of a style.  Ali did struggle against Norton and Frazier but how many championships did Norton and Frazier win?  Frazier won two, I think, but one of them was given to him after Ali was stripped of his title because of his position against the Vietnam War.  Norton never won one.  Ali won 3x.  You can love the puncher (Smokin' Joe has always been one of my all-time favorites, actually) but the boxer won more times than not.



bob


.

Cow and Bob,

Off topic from hoops, but setting The Ring record straight.

I know Cowens boxed, as did I, and we both consider ourselves students of The Sweet Science, so a couple of minor points…

Norton did hold two heavyweight titles, the NABF, by TKO over Jerry Quarry, and the WBC, which was awarded retroactively for his win over Jimmy Young in a title elimination fight when Leon Spinks was stripped for not fighting Norton.  Spinks at the time decided to give his first title defense against Ali, which was against WBC rules since Norton was ranked as top contender.

Ali fought Foreman once, and beat him by outsmarting him.  Ali let Foreman punch himself out.  After Foreman's arms got heavy in the third, Ali turned it around.  Ali is famously quoted as tying Foreman up in the seventh and whispering in his ear "Is that all you got George?" and "My turn."  The fight was called by TKO in the eighth.  Hard to say if Ali would beat him again.  Ali's strategy was known only to him.  He told Angelo Dundee that he had a plan on his way in to the ring, but Dundee didn't know what it was.  Ali is probably my favorite athlete ever, but I always thought if there had been a rematch, with any coaching, Foreman would have had the advantage.  Ali's "Rope-A-Dope" was brilliant, but probably a one-time thing.

Anyway, I'm picking at really minor things here; back to basketball…

It was a nice win, and a statement on how far we've come.  I wouldn't get too carried away, we've still got a lot of growing to do.  Still the win was well earned and I would agree with Worcester on both his points; this is a very enjoyable team to root for and Dick would be thrilled.

Regards

Jimmy Young he was Floyd Mayweather before there was a Floyd, a pitty pat puncher who was hard to hit and made you look bad, and would tie you up and clinch if you got too close or were hitting him, he also had a win over Foreman. Norton and Frazier were both punishing inside sluggers that always moved forward. Anyone moving into the power of George Foreman would get flattened, as those two great fighters did, but a fast talented guy moving away from him would always give him trouble, so I think Ali could have beat Foreman again, but I'm biased as I was his biggest fan. On another note around the time Foreman was fighting Holyfield in his mid 40's, word I heard on the street was Tyson wouldn't fight him, was afraid and knew at some point they would be going toe to toe and exchanging and he knew he was too small and didn't want any part of that, thats how much power George Foreman had.

I believe it was Angelo Dundee who said that yes Ali beat Norton but he took so much punishment from Ken that he was never the same fighter again. Ali's was a pyrrhic victory ove Norton.

worse I think that was the 3rd Ali-Frazier war, both fighters killed each other in an epic slugfest, every writer claimed it was the most brutal fight in boxing ever. Then a year later Ali had the 3rd fight with Ken Norton and didn't look right, then he fought Ernie Shavers a year later and had rounds he barely escaped/survived. Ali fought everybody, then paid for it later unfortunately.

Just have to chime in with what fun game to watch. The Celtics are playing well and with Trader Danny knowing how important it is not to pull the trigger on a marginal trade we will be even better next year. My hope is that they will draft well enough to defend this year's title. They may not have the best roster in the NBA but they have as much heart as any team. How long before Brad isn't considered an up and coming coach any more? More and more this could be Danny's best signing ever.

As far as Ali is concerned I feel sure he would have beaten Foreman again, but in a different fashion. His ability to out think his opponent is unmatched. As was his ability to know a punch was coming and prepare/counteract it. But for me his greatest moment ever will always be lighting the Olympic Torch and bringing so many people to tears.