Cannot Teach An old Dog New Tricks

What a waste of energy this game was. We played great D, Moved the ball down low in the paint, all the
right things and we forget everything we have done the last 4 games! Doc sent a message to the team by getting tossed with less then 2 minutes to go. Obviously the destiny of the team is now out of the hands of the coaching staff and now in the hands of the players. Now we are behind Atlanta and could face Cleveland in the second round.

Going to be a long summer.

112288

1122

we are up one game on hawks in the loss cloumn no?

nope wrong 25 each my bad...sigh

112288 wrote:What a waste of energy this game was. We played great D, Moved the ball down low in the paint, all the
right things and we forget everything we have done the last 4 games! Doc sent a message to the team by getting tossed with less then 2 minutes to go. Obviously the destiny of the team is now out of the hands of the coaching staff and now in the hands of the players. Now we are behind Atlanta and could face Cleveland in the second round.

Going to be a long summer.

112288

Where you been the last 4 games brother?

Nice to see the boo birds who only show up when their message can make sense.

You cant win em all....Celtics played just fine.....Jazz played better. Period.

jeb65 wrote:1122

we are up one game on hawks in the loss cloumn no?

Tied in the loss and they own the tie breaker.

112288

mrkleen09 wrote:

112288 wrote:What a waste of energy this game was. We played great D, Moved the ball down low in the paint, all the
right things and we forget everything we have done the last 4 games! Doc sent a message to the team by getting tossed with less then 2 minutes to go. Obviously the destiny of the team is now out of the hands of the coaching staff and now in the hands of the players. Now we are behind Atlanta and could face Cleveland in the second round.

Going to be a long summer.

112288

Where you been the last 4 games brother?

Nice to see the boo birds who only show up when their message can make sense.

You cant win em all....Celtics played just fine.....Jazz played better. Period.

If you are going to get play-off rhythm you cannot collapse as we did in the second half. Utah was completely out-classed by us in the first half and yes I've watched very game this season. I call it as I see it and we just plain got away from our game plan in the second half.

112288

112288 wrote:If you are going to get play-off rhythm you cannot collapse as we did in the second half.

Utah is one of the best teams in the NBA - especially at home.

Losing in Salt Lake is no indication of playoff rhythm...Jazz got hot in the second half...it happens.

We did collapse in second half,defense fell apart,no rebounding and missed a bunch of bunnies.....however I still like what I saw recently in last 4 games.With adequate rest between games in playoffs,Stern likes to drag this out,we can be a legit force in playoffs.Were a legit 10 deep and last 4 games have shown me we can execute and we can hit shots,my biggest concern is our rebounding.Sheed and KG are such feeble rebounders now,too many times have seen a great defensive stand then we can't come up with the ball.

112288 is not just a "boo bird who shows up when his message can make sense." He's an administrator/moderator of this forum who contributes often to the board, not only through a reasonable balance of positive and negative posts as he sees fit but also through initiatives such his running of our latest charitable "March Madness" effort (which was his brainstorm).

I appreciate efforts to avoid labeling on the board.

Thanks,

Sam

Sam wrote:112288 is not just a "boo bird who shows up when his message can make sense." He's an administrator/moderator of this forum who contributes often to the board, not only through a reasonable balance of positive and negative posts as he sees fit but also through initiatives such his running of our latest charitable "March Madness" effort (which was his brainstorm).

I appreciate efforts to avoid labeling on the board.

Thanks,

Sam

Fair enough Sam. But when a team loses a game after notching 4 impressive wins in a row, and someone says "going to be a long summer" - it just seems to rub me the wrong way.

Hi,
Unfortunately, the "collapse" started at the very end of the 2nd quarter. And it was prompted by poor execution on O. Before that Celtics were working like a Swiss clock, offense and defense in sync, increasing the lead very slowly but surely. But at about 1 min before the end of the quarter attitude "end of 2nd quarter=end of the game" set in. IMHO, you can't give Jerry Sloan and his team such a big opening. Comes 3rd quarter, and they capitalized on that as much as they could. Celtics tried to get back but it's very hard to catch a team like Jazz when your own engine misfiring here and there. oh well...
I hope they learn the lesson and continue to march to the playoff level.

AK

I'm no b-ball coach, but it has to be difficult to know when to pull the plug when the five guys on the court are showing great momentum and start subsituting/putting the starters back in. Some people argue that Doc is very rigid in his subbing, not adjusting in the second half (or at all) no matter what is going on. This may be true.

Others argue that Doc should be more free flowing with his substituting, allowing the hot hand(s) to remain on the court...until what? Until it's too late It's like market timing. Very, very few people are successful at buying right on the low and selling out right at the peak. Maybe you've done it once, but I promise over time you will have a losing $ record.

I think Doc does what he does so that the guys know exactly what they have to do in the time given them. If someone knows they have a job to do in a given amount of time, then you come in as boss at 5PM and say, "Hey, you're doing great, keep going, work 'til 8 PM," Sure, you're happy for a brief moment because the boss just patted you on the back. But you're also pissed because now you have to call your wife, tell her you're working late, re-arrange your schedule, etc. You're not going to give your best effort for those next 3 hours.

Everyone has their job to do in the given time. If you do it better than expected, great. Worse than expected, not so great but someone in the next shift will have to pick up your slack. But expending the time just because your hot must have more negative impact than positive otherwise all the coaches would be doing it. I think if you start monkeying with the times of players or bench vs. starters they start to question their value and contribution(s).

Each game is completely different. Sometimes the starters dominate and the bench sucks. Sometimes vice versa. Sometimes both suck and other times both play great, but it's up to the coaches to sense it then for the players to determine how they are best to contribute and help the other(s) out.

Coaching the Great Starters Play/Great Bench Play should be easy. Those are the blowouts. The 67%+ Assist/Shots taken, 6+ in double digits scoring, etc. It's the other three categories that that all teams face a majority of the time where the coaches make their money. If Doc pulls the guys exactly the same each time, no one's ego gets bruised. If you do great in that time, great. If you screwed up, have a seat and realize somone else is going to have to carry you and play harder because you came up short. Yeah, it will sting a little bit, but you are still eager to get back out on the court and prove yourself the next time.

Let's not forget, we beat 2 quality teams on the road. We haven't been able to say that for quite some time this season. And unless we go undefeated throughout the playoffs, we are going to have some off nights.

What we do need to do now is re-establish homecourt dominance. We have quality games coming up this week in which to do that and prove that. We won the Southwest trip, almost got the broom out. Let's see what they do with those chances.

dbrown

Well said.

When climbing stairs it's never straight up. (or straight down).
Maybe things came a little to easy in the first half. We seemed to be getting the calls and working. Then like you said just before the 1/2 it started to slip. when we got blindsided to start the 3rd we could not get the momentum back.

1 game is all it is. Utah is a good team and tough at home. No sin losing to them at their place. That game is behind us learn what needs to be done a bit better and move on.

beat

losing hurts. we all love the celts. After a loss none of us are at our best.

Doc's method is just one way to skin the proverbial cat. He in essence takes all the emotion out the process. Given what he has to deal with on and off the court with egos, etc. this method would work well overall and appears to work for every other team in the NBA.

With as many games that are played, someone has to have tried the "leaving the guy in with the hot hand" approach and probably wound up losing the game as a result more often than not, otherwise it would be the norm. I would imagine when the hot guy crashes, it's very ugly. Either it results in injury, he's too tired later on when he's needed most, etc. From our perspective as fans, we all want to see the hot guy make 20 3's in a row. But the adrenalin high and subsequent bigger crash to the player are taken into consideration and it gets the big X. But the coaches know better than us armchair folk. And they are compensated for that.

To me working hard is great. But working smart is 10X's better. It doesn't mean being lazy, it just means trying to achieve and go beyond in the time you are given. Doc is forcing these guys to work smart. Sprint vs. Marathon. Each game is a 5K, the season is the marathon, but the time you are out on the court is a clearly a sprint. Otherwise these guys could all play 48 minutes. Each playoff seires is a sprint because you aren't promised another series each round. The playoffs to the finals is a marathon, well maybe a 1/2 marathon in the grand scheme of things.

Besides, Utah is not a team we are going to face in the playoffs. CLE is. And they are coming up. DEN is a potential finals team. They're next.

I would like to see a +Starters/+Bench vs. DEN. That will go a long way to re-establishing fear in the hearts of teams coming to Boston. While I'll take a 1 point victory, a blowout would be nice.

a blow-out might be nice, but containing Melo is a piece of work. i'll just take a W, if we can get it. and with the Nugs D in some disarray with the loss of their "glue" guy on D, the C's will have their chances for sure. just need to not get in a shooting match with these guys - play Celtics ball and we should get the W.

about the Jazz, agree with 112288 when he said "we just plain got away from our game plan in the second half." i think so too, though i'd have to say i don't know what our game plan would be for Okur when he starts launching 3's from the corner.

and agree with MrKleen too. he said "Utah is one of the best teams in the NBA - especially at home. (This is true - the record is clear).

Losing in Salt Lake is no indication of playoff rhythm...Jazz got hot in the second half...it happens." yup. and even in the later minutes we had a chance to come back, but we went cold, and PP was off all night after having some very good recent games.

it happens. the sky isn't falling. time to move on. bring on the Nuggets.

Michael

The Nuggs are a ten ton shithammer. Very dangerous and they pack their lunch against good teams. I would think a victory against them at home would be both a signal to the nba that we are to be dealt with and a further solidifying of new resolve to take care of our home court.

So much for needing a "Post-Game" thread.

jeb65 wrote:The Nuggs are a ten ton shithammer. Very dangerous and they pack their lunch against good teams. I would think a victory against them at home would be both a signal to the nba that we are to be dealt with and a further solidifying of new resolve to take care of our home court.

agreed, though the Nuggets aren't the same team defensively without K Martin, out while undergoing recovery from a painful blood platelet/plama procedure to heal his knee. he's out for maybe 2-3 more weeks, if the controversial procedure works. the C's have a better chance to get their offensive flow going without him in there. here's hoping they take care of home court.

Go C's.

bigpygme wrote:

jeb65 wrote:The Nuggs are a ten ton shithammer. Very dangerous and they pack their lunch against good teams. I would think a victory against them at home would be both a signal to the nba that we are to be dealt with and a further solidifying of new resolve to take care of our home court.

agreed, though the Nuggets aren't the same team defensively without K Martin, out while undergoing recovery from a painful blood platelet/plama procedure to heal his knee. he's out for maybe 2-3 more weeks, if the controversial procedure works. the C's have a better chance to get their offensive flow going without him in there. here's hoping they take care of home court.

Go C's.

Michael,

You're right about that, but their team basketball IQ goes up about 40 points without him.

bob


/

Mrkleen,

I can understand that it rubs you the wrong way. You're a very positive fan, and it's been a long haul to look as good as they are. I'm right there with you in terms of feeling the Celtics deserve to have us backing them in a very positive way.

But the issue isn't one of message. It's one of style. A comment can be questioned without the attachment of an editorial label.

Thanks for understanding.

Sam

First the Celtics own one of the best road records in the NBA. This year if we are to do go deep into the play-offs, road wins will play a big part in that.

Second, many on the board argued that the team has experienced a lot of injuries which lead to the dismal record beginning the day after Christmas. In essence board members are saying the Celtics lost their rhythm and the time now until the play-offs will be an important time to regain that rhythm. I agree to a point. I am still not convinced it was all injuries that led us to 20 losses since Christmas. I still believe there is an underlying current within the locker room among the players that has played an important part in the down turn of the Celtics and to this day raises its ugly head and causes the players to lose focus like last night.

Four wins in a row sounds great but the first two were against teams going down hill and will not make the play-offs. I looked at the Houston & Dallas games as having begun the win streak. I was very impressed by Big Baby and his newly found offensive rebounding and jump shot from the outside and the overall teams jump on the defensive end of the court.

We owned Utah last night in the first half. But the lack of focus started to creep in with about 2 minutes to go in the second and clearly showed itself in the third.

Ya, loses like this do happen but when you are a team trying to regain your Mo Jo after what happened in January and February a loss like that does not sit right with me and should not with any Celtic fan. I cannot go through life nor through watching Celtic games and settling for mediocrity and I will call it as I see it with anything in life including the Celtics when I do not get what was billed to me in October as a possible Championship Team and going 25 & 5 'til Christmas.

I am not a fair weather fan who hides for 22 years like many have done. I have done more to follow and root for the Celtics as a fan then most folk since 1961 and that includes having to live on Long Island and having to beg borrow or steal from my parents to go to games either in Boston or NY.

Finally posting a different point of view is healthy in any form. If it is done in a professional manor and not antagonistic as I have always and will always continue to do "As I See It"!

112288

Fair play to you both.

I am just not ready to declare it a long summer in March, but there is no need to question your loyalty to make my point.

Fair point raised by all parties in this matter!

112288

nice work guys...great forum...makes me proud