Charles Barkley: One-and-done players 'have no idea how to play basketball'

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/charles-barkley-one-done-players-161700934.html



Charles Barkley: One-and-done players 'have no idea how to play basketball'



Sporting News


Wed, May 11 9:17 AM PDT




Charles Barkley has been critical of the current state of the NBA before, and he was at it again Wednesday when he appeared on "The Dan Patrick Show."

The TNT basketball analyst was asked about Tracy McGrady's statement that the league is "watered down," and he agreed with it. Barkley added some reasoning why he felt that way, and it starts with players leaving college too soon.

"The NBA is watered down. The NBA is the worst I've ever seen it. I think we've got to address all the kids coming into the NBA after one year (in college)," he said. "I think it has something to do with all these kids we're drafting out of high school ... now we're drafting kids after one year of college. It drives me crazy. They have potential, but they have no idea how to play basketball. Tracy has a great point, but it's something I've been saying for the last three years."

The Hall of Fame player continued with his thoughts on one-and-done players shortly after in the interview. He believes there should be a two-year college minimum for players so they can take more time to understand the game.

"You look at Steph and Kawhi (Leonard), they both stayed in college X amount of years. (It's) something we have to address. I know everybody is in a hurry to get paid, but we have watered down our product. You look at the last few rookie classes we've had — they've all been guys who only stayed in college for one year and they all have one thing in common — they all are not very good. We're drafting young guys, trying to make them NBA players, and they just can't play."

Barkley says the players who leave early might be good in a few years, but they are undeveloped when they arrive. He says this process isn't fair to the fans, who deserve good players in the draft who can help immediately.



bob
MY NOTE:  I agree.


.

Me too.

Totally disagree.


swish

There's a number of players that are not one and done and don't know how to play. Charles is a hater and a terrible analyst.

AND.... there are lots of one and dones that are not very good as well.
But who is CHARLES to say what's best for those players that come out early. It depends on the player(s).Barkley paints a broad stroke and speaks in absolutes all the time. Ass Clown!

Of course it's watered down. Too many teams Charles.

Ktronic1 wrote:Of course it's watered down. Too many teams Charles.

Hey ktronic!

Are you a college basketball fan?


bob


.

Not at all watered down. 23 teams in the 80's - 30 now. The world wide population market has more than compensated for the increase of 7 teams. In addition,basketball is now a 12 month event for the youth of this country who now play highly organized basketball in the summer while still in the elementary grades. Talk about feeder programs for the colleges and eventually the Pros. The talent level has never been better or more abundant. As usual Sir Charles is just echoing the Good Old Days theme.


swish

Charles is not speaking for the interest of the young players. He's representing the interest of the fans who want a higher quality product on the floor. Who can argue that players who play 1 year in college are better prepared for the NBA on the whole than those who play two years? Yes there is much talent in the NBA, but college does a fella good. The more of it the better.

The entire idea of many of these guys going to college for even one year is a farce.  The barely can make it to the classes and the classes are pure fluff.  They attend for 1 1/2 semesters and can't wait until the end of March Madness, where they promptly leave school, never to return.

They have been coddled, overly praised and have been told they are the greatest all their lives.  Many rules have been twisted or outright broken for them and by them in the process.  The NCAA hands out punishment, but by then, the players have moved on and are left unaffected.  The punishment for the college's personnel isn't lasting.  The entire process gives the players a sense of entitlement that transfers over to the NBA.

Suggesting that the players go for two years is a change that I believe is the wrong direction.  I suggest that they stop the farce of forcing these players to go to college.  If they don't, the courts will eventually make the colleges pay the players.  The best of the players will insist on it if the rules make them play while the colleges reap the rewards.

I would suggest that the draft be extended out for a couple more rounds.  Then the rosters should be extended out to 25-30 players.  This could all be modeled around how the NHL does it.  Have a true minor league, one team per each NBA team.  The "iffy" players could get a two way contract; more pay per game on the NBA team, less pay per game in the DL, but still more pay in the DL than now to make it worth it all.  Once upon a time, I was a hockey fan and I knew the ins and outs of how it works, but not so much anymore.  BobC is a fan, perhaps he could explain some of the pros and cons of such a plan.

I don't know if the player's association would buy into such a plan, but eventually they will have to do something like this.  The system (college sports as a minor league to pro sports) as it is now is broken.  There is way too much money in it for everything to be above board.  A true professional minor league would open the game to more cities and more players.  The league could include better insurance, money counseling, post career programs, etc.  It is all in the total package and presentation.

Then college sports could go back to being a true amateur, yet exciting league.

Anyway, that's my 2c (and probably more)

gyso

gyso wrote:The entire idea of many of these guys going to college for even one year is a farce.  The barely can make it to the classes and the classes are pure fluff.  They attend for 1 1/2 semesters and can't wait until the end of March Madness, where they promptly leave school, never to return.

They have been coddled, overly praised and have been told they are the greatest all their lives.  Many rules have been twisted or outright broken for them and by them in the process.  The NCAA hands out punishment, but by then, the players have moved on and are left unaffected.  The punishment for the college's personnel isn't lasting.  The entire process gives the players a sense of entitlement that transfers over to the NBA.

Suggesting that the players go for two years is a change that I believe is the wrong direction.  I suggest that they stop the farce of forcing these players to go to college.  If they don't, the courts will eventually make the colleges pay the players.  The best of the players will insist on it if the rules make them play while the colleges reap the rewards.

I would suggest that the draft be extended out for a couple more rounds.  Then the rosters should be extended out to 25-30 players.  This could all be modeled around how the NHL does it.  Have a true minor league, one team per each NBA team.  The "iffy" players could get a two way contract; more pay per game on the NBA team, less pay per game in the DL, but still more pay in the DL than now to make it worth it all.  Once upon a time, I was a hockey fan and I knew the ins and outs of how it works, but not so much anymore.  BobC is a fan, perhaps he could explain some of the pros and cons of such a plan.

I don't know if the player's association would buy into such a plan, but eventually they will have to do something like this.  The system (college sports as a minor league to pro sports) as it is now is broken.  There is way too much money in it for everything to be above board.  A true professional minor league would open the game to more cities and more players.  The league could include better insurance, money counseling, post career programs, etc.  It is all in the total package and presentation.

Then college sports could go back to being a true amateur, yet exciting league.

Anyway, that's my 2c (and probably more)

gyso

I agree 100% with what you are saying here.

The NBA needs to expand the D-league to a 30 team "minor" league. One team per NBA team, this is the route they have been moving to. With the New TV money there is no reason for any team to balk at this, IMO.

expand the draft to 3 or 4 rounds total, with ALL players 18 and over eligible. Each pick should have a slotted salary for NBA play and D-League play ( D-league salarys for these players will be much higher than today to keep players in the system).

Drafting team keeps the rights to any drafted player for four years total.


I have read articles that some of these things have/are being discussed by the league now.

Playing devil's advocate, what about an alternative approach... just like most other professional jobs, require a 4-year college degree to be employed by the league. This both improves the product because the players have 4 years to develop in the NCAA and because GMs and scouts have 4 years worth of data and the ability to see whether the players build their skills year over year, as opposed to with one and dones, where they often have to guess whether they are seeing athleticism or true talent. In another added benefit, this probably goes a decent way to weeding out the idiots who can't get along with their coaches, end up in the news for doing stupid things, etc.

That said, it would likely never happen, so I do like the minor league idea, where coaches and players can focus on developing skills rather than just winning games. You don't have to have 'project' players riding the bench and never getting into games, and you can teach your players your system so they can fit in better with the big league team when they get called up.

a lot of these kids are not "college" material in the first place.

Why not just let the kids(Parents) decide the path that they want to take. That's the way baseball handles it. Some go to college - Some go directly into pro ball. Obviously some players have the talent to compete at a very young age with the very best veterans in the league. See Karl Anthony Towns ( 2015-16 ), 20 year old rookie. What advantage would he have gained by going to college for three more years that he couldn't match by signing a pro contract and spending those same 3 years playing major or minor league ball. Ok - a college degree - but at the expense of about 17.8 million dollars.

swish

Here's an idea.... in the next CBA, build in a payscale that rewards players for going to and staying in College, essentially giving them back some of the salary they would lose for staying.

So for example, if you sign as an 18 year old out of high school, the max rookie contract is $500k... the team is taking a large risk on your on and off court development. If you come out after one year of college ball, the max contract is $1M. 2 years, $1.5M, etc.

Where this would fall down is for the guys who have borderline NBA talent, aka James Young. After one year of college ball, you can fake it, and teams take a chance that you'll develop. If he had stayed in for four years and not progressed, he wouldn't have gotten picked where he did.

swish wrote:Why not just let the kids(Parents) decide the path that they want to take. That's the way baseball handles it. Some go to college - Some go directly into pro ball. Obviously some players have the talent to compete at a very young age with the very best veterans in the league. See Karl Anthony Towns ( 2015-16 ), 20 year old rookie. What advantage would he have gained by going to college for three more years that he couldn't match by signing a pro contract and spending those same 3 years playing major or minor league ball. Ok - a college degree - but at the expense of about 17.8 million dollars.

swish

I agree with you 100% Swish.
Let the kids have the option of going pro or going to college.
Towns was ready for the NBA.
Simmons is physically ready for the NBA, other than his jump shot.
If kids had to stay in college for 4 years, all of the good players would be playing in Europe or China.
I would rather watch them play 1 or 2 years of college ball here.
I can't see any way that the NBA is going to start a minor league.
I do think they need to significantly up the pay for D-League players.
Currently, they can make up to $25,000 plus free housing.
I think they should make $75,000.

swish wrote:Why not just let the kids(Parents) decide the path that they want to take. That's the way baseball handles it. Some go to college - Some go directly into pro ball. Obviously some players have the talent to compete at a very young age with the very best veterans in the league. See Karl Anthony Towns ( 2015-16 ), 20 year old rookie. What advantage would he have gained by going to college for three more years that he couldn't match by signing a pro contract and spending those same 3 years playing major or minor league ball. Ok - a college degree - but at the expense of about 17.8 million dollars.

swish

Baseball really isn't a very good comparison.  Baseball has multiple levels of established minor leagues and I don't believe anybody actually goes directly from high school to the big leagues.  In the NBA, players could if they were allowed.

Your first sentence should be the way of it.  Let the players, parents and the market decide.  Stop the one-and-done farce.

gyso

gyso wrote:

swish wrote:Why not just let the kids(Parents) decide the path that they want to take. That's the way baseball handles it. Some go to college - Some go directly into pro ball. Obviously some players have the talent to compete at a very young age with the very best veterans in the league. See Karl Anthony Towns ( 2015-16 ), 20 year old rookie. What advantage would he have gained by going to college for three more years that he couldn't match by signing a pro contract and spending those same 3 years playing major or minor league ball. Ok - a college degree - but at the expense of about 17.8 million dollars.

swish

Baseball really isn't a very good comparison.  Baseball has multiple levels of established minor leagues and I don't believe anybody actually goes directly from high school to the big leagues.  In the NBA, players could if they were allowed.

Your first sentence should be the way of it.  Let the players, parents and the market decide.  Stop the one-and-done farce.

gyso

perhaps rare.......

But Al Kaline never played 1 inning of minor league baseball..............

Kaline bypassed the minor league system and joined the Tigers directly from high school as an 18-year-old "bonus baby" signee, receiving $35,000 (equivalent to $309,558 in 2015),[8] to sign with the team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Kaline


and her is the list of baseball players that never played professionally at a lower level
a lot more than even I though although very few since 2000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baseball_players_who_went_directly_to_Major_League_Baseball

(some played college baseball and in so doing cannot be eligible for the major league draft until there junior year is over)
Certain groups of players are ineligible for selection, generally because they are still in school. The basic categories of players eligible to be drafted are:


• High school players, if they have graduated from high school and have not yet attended college or junior college;
• College players, from four-year colleges who have either completed their junior or senior years or are at least 21 years old; and
• Junior college players, regardless of how many years of school they have completed


beat

In my opinion, I haven't heard of a better solution than the one year requirement.
If the NBA lets kids in immediately after HS, we and teams never see them play against top talent in the country.
I think the NBA wants them to play at least 1 year of college ball, so they can see these kids play against other really good players and most likely play in the NCAA tournament.
I agree that the schooling is a joke if a player knows he's staying for 1 year.
He takes easy online classes.
I know colleges aren't real happy with the 1 year requirement but they will take that over no requirement.

beat wrote:

gyso wrote:

swish wrote:Why not just let the kids(Parents) decide the path that they want to take. That's the way baseball handles it. Some go to college - Some go directly into pro ball. Obviously some players have the talent to compete at a very young age with the very best veterans in the league. See Karl Anthony Towns ( 2015-16 ), 20 year old rookie. What advantage would he have gained by going to college for three more years that he couldn't match by signing a pro contract and spending those same 3 years playing major or minor league ball. Ok - a college degree - but at the expense of about 17.8 million dollars.

swish

Baseball really isn't a very good comparison.  Baseball has multiple levels of established minor leagues and I don't believe anybody actually goes directly from high school to the big leagues.  In the NBA, players could if they were allowed.

Your first sentence should be the way of it.  Let the players, parents and the market decide.  Stop the one-and-done farce.

gyso

perhaps rare.......

But Al Kaline never played 1 inning of minor league baseball..............

Kaline bypassed the minor league system and joined the Tigers directly from high school as an 18-year-old "bonus baby" signee, receiving $35,000 (equivalent to $309,558 in 2015),[8] to sign with the team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Kaline


and her is the list of baseball players that never played professionally at a lower level
a lot more than even I though although very few since 2000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baseball_players_who_went_directly_to_Major_League_Baseball

(some played college baseball and in so doing cannot be eligible for the major league draft until there junior year is over)
Certain groups of players are ineligible for selection, generally because they are still in school. The basic categories of players eligible to be drafted are:


• High school players, if they have graduated from high school and have not yet attended college or junior college;
• College players, from four-year colleges who have either completed their junior or senior years or are at least 21 years old; and
• Junior college players, regardless of how many years of school they have completed


beat

Somehow I knew that you would know this.  Actually, this is a "Players who debuted in Major League Baseball without playing minor league baseball" list.  That means that they went from anywhere (HS, college, unknown) directly to the big leagues without playing in a minor league first.  It doesn't mean that they stayed there, just that they debuted there.  There is no telling if they stayed there, without picking the links to every player.  

Since 1986, there were 8 players on that list and every single one of them went to college.  Even the one without a listing, Ariel Prieto, actually went to college.  I picked his name and the link took me to his own page.  He was from Cuba, graduated from Fajardo University in Santiago de Cuba.  He ended up in the minors.

The list is also full of "Bonus Babies".  "The Bonus Rule was a rule instituted by Major League Baseball in 1947 that prevented teams from assigning certain players to farm clubs.[1] The rule stipulated that when a Major league team signed a player to a contract in excess of $4,000 ($42,400 today), the Major League team was required to keep that player on the 25-man roster for two full-seasons."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Rule

Take away the Bonus Babies and the list gets considerably smaller.  

The list did include 9 hall of famers.  Al Kaline was one of them and also was a bonus baby.  Likewise Harmon Killebrew, Sandy Koufax.

I guess that there are some who went directly from high school to the baseball major leagues (and never played in the minors), but in the last 100 years, it is a very lonely trail.

gyso

2 years of college is helpful in that players get to work on their athletic skills, but the contribution to their academic skills is questionable. 2 years in the D league could do the same developmentally for an 18-20 year old. The D League has a 50 game schedule, better for youngsters than the NBA's 82 game marathon. What concerns me most about players going right to the NBA at age 19 is their health. Bones, muscles, tendons, and ligaments need a chance to grow, attach properly, and solidify, especially for big men 6'7" and over. I also worry about the future heart health of big men after they leave the NBA. Too many die too young.

I would note the NBA already has a minor league that they own.

19 teams this year, with 22 slated for next season.

not a big stretch to require each NBA team to have one D-league team.

NBA teams could then carry 13 players on the active roster and call up players as needed for injuries. saving the teams full salaries on 1-2 roster spots and covering some of the cost.

Have the teams use the parent teams name and colors even.

Maine Celtics for instance.

bobheckler wrote:

Ktronic1 wrote:Of course it's watered down. Too many teams Charles.

Hey ktronic!

Are you a college basketball fan?


bob


.

In March I certainly am

Charles has it semi-correct.  Despite his clown act, he's smarter than most NBA commentators.

True, most of the one-and-done crowd have not developed to their potential.

The issue actually is, the NCAA needs them there in D1 ball for the year.  Let those phenoms go directly to pro ball from high school, and the NCAA tourney, the most lucrative sporting event there is, gets reduced in stature and gate attraction.

It's not about the NBA.  Forget them.  It's about the NCAA and the money derived directly and indirectly from being a tourney team.

The one year rule needs to stand for economic reasons.