FULL COURT PRESS: AUSTIN AINGE TRIES TO FIND GEMS AT 16, 23, LOCAL TALENT, DANNY AINGE GETS ‘BORED’ IN WORKOUTS

by **112288** Sat May 21, 2016 9:16 pm

WEEI

By Mike Petraglia

Austin Ainge speaks to reporters Wednesday in Waltham. (Mike Petraglia/WEEI.com)

WALTHAM – A show of hands: Who remembers, without Googling, when John Stockton was taken in the 1984 draft?

If you answered 16th, you win the prize for best understanding where we’re going with the following premise. As much as will be made of the significance of the third overall pick in the NBA (and understandably so), the Celtics also own the 16th and 23rd picks in the June 23 restocking exercise called the NBA draft and could wind up with a gem.

In that ’84 draft, everyone remembers eventual hall of famers Hakeem Olajuwon went first overall to the Rockets, Michael Jordan third to the Bulls and Charles Barkley fifth to the Sixers. But it was another future hall of famer, in Stockton, who slipped through the cracks and fell to the Jazz at 16.

There was a lot of talk this week from the Celtics about why those second two first-round picks shouldn’t be forgotten. One high-ranking executive told me, “We are in a great position. The Nets did the losing for us to get the third overall pick and we have Dallas’ and our own. This should be a lot of fun for Danny.”

Indeed, the Celtics president of basketball operations and son, Austin, the director of player personnel, will not only have multiple scenarios for No. 3 but 16 and 23 as well.

“Obviously, you have to prepare for the entire draft, and we do that with every draft. It doesn’t really change that much for our preparation,” Austin Ainge said. “But obviously, toward the top of draft, it usually has a bigger impact on your franchise so you try to focus a lot on those guys. But there are franchise that have been drafted in every range and that’s the benefit of having multiple picks, multiple swings at the bat.

“It’s all in context. You have their high school career, their college career, their workouts, their measurements, some of the background information we collect. It all just adds up so it’s all just small bits of information adding together. Can’t let one bit sway everything and certainly a workout won’t but it helps us.

“I think that’s the case in every draft, and it’s not that they end up being the same, it’s just hard for us to tell. We always say six of these next 40 picks are going to end up being really good players. It’s just that we don’t know which ones. It’s hard.”

Since 1970, the Celtics have picked 16th three times, Troy Bell (2003), Lucas Nogueira (2013) and Terry Rozier (2015). Rozier is the only one to have played with the Celtics. In that span, Boston has chosen 23rd twice, in back-to-back years, when they took Charles Bradley in 1981 and Darren Tillis in ’82.

“The higher the draft pick, you have a better chance,” Austin Ainge added. “There’s going to be really good players available at 16, there’s going to be really good players available at 23. It’s just harder to identify in that range. It’s a little harder. We’re going to work really hard to do the best we can.”

The guard-rich Celtics certainly don’t figure to be in need of a guard, and they weren’t last year. But that didn’t keep them from taking Rozier and Hunter. The case could be the same this year if they feel a particular guard out of a good program could help them win.

On guard: Keep a very close eye on Ryan Arcidiacono. The senior out of Villanova who flipped the title-winning assist to Kris Jenkins at the buzzer in Houston worked out this week for the Pacers and has many of the same characteristics that Stockton had but – at 6-foot-3 has a bigger frame. He was not an NBA prospect before this season but then he led Villanova to another 30-win season and shined in the tournament. He’s got all of the intangibles (toughness, great internal clock, intelligence, leadership) that someone like Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens look for. He led a high-profile program to a national title and handled himself in a way that causes NBA GMs to take notice. The team that takes a chance on him could wind up with a hidden treasure.

“Toughness is a big part of our program,” Austin Ainge said. “We value that so putting them in strenuous situations and see how they react matters.”

The Sixers are such a team in desperate need of a point guard and while they certainly love the elite skill of Providence’s Kris Dunn, Arcidiacono is a player who went up against him in the Big East. Archie was 5-1 head-to-head against Dunn. One player can’t turn everything around overnight but a guy like Arcidiacono, who played up the Main Line from Wells Fargo Center, could certainly give the Sixers a more professional look.

The Celtics took a close look at Arcidiacono’s backcourt teammate Josh Hart this week. The junior out of Nova had an uneven shooting performance at the Combine in Chicago but is still regarded as an NBA prospect. He’s said many times that’s he’s 50-50 as to whether he might commit to the draft. He tweeted Saturday that he still hadn’t made up his mind but it’s sounding more and more like he’ll return to the Main Line.

The same could be said for many of the prospects that work out early in the pre-draft process for NBA teams. Hart, Sophomore Abdul-Malik Abu (N.C. State), Sophomore Trevon Bluiett (Xavier), Junior DeAndre Bembry (St. Joe’s) are all underclassmen who have until this Wednesday to make up their mind to stay in or go back to school.

“They’re just here for feedback so we’ve been in communication with their college coaches, talk to them a little bit, try to give them some honest opinions, try to help them make them make their decisions. Big decision for those kids,” Austin Ainge said.

Abu is a 6-foot-8 forward who played with the Ainge family at Marblehead High before transferring to Kimball Union prep and moving onto N.C. State.

“Malik’s a great kid. He played on my little brother’s high school team,” Austin Ainge said. “I’ve seen him play a lot, play a lot. He’s a great kid, really athletic, still a little raw skill-wise. He’s made improvements on his body and his game in his two years at N.C. State. He’s got a tough decision to make.

“As with all the kids, we have a pick in just about every range. We’ve been able to get a lot of these kids in. And we targeted them. We got a lot of kids in that we know will probably go back to school. It just helps in our evaluation for the future.”

Danny Workout Warrior: The Celtics had 12 more players in for workouts on Wednesday. All the workouts can get repetitive which is why Danny Ainge gets personally involved.

“He’s out there. He likes to interact with them a little bit to try and get a feel for them,” Austin said of dad. “As much as strategy, I think he’s kind of bored and having fun as well.

“We’ll have few more [workout players] than normal but that has more to do with the rule change than the number of picks we have. We always try to work out guys in every range, partly because we don’t know the range yet. Top 10 or 15 might be kind of vaguely in a range but then after that, it’s really all over the place. We have more guys coming in but that’s more due to the rule change, and the fact that we they will come in with the number of picks we have.”

Going Big: Dragan Bender is not the only 7-footer that has the interest of the Celtics. Chinese big man Zhou Qi (Joe chee) is 7-foot-1 and he came to Waltham this week to work out. While not as advanced physically or well known as the Croatian 18-year-old, Qi was someone who piqued the interest of Austin.

“I went to China and saw him play. We’ve known about him for a couple of years,” Ainge said. “He’s probably the third or fourth-most recognized name in Chinese basketball so he’s a known commodity. But it was great to have him in today and have him work out. He doesn’t speak a ton of English. I compare him to kind of when I took Spanish I in junior high, kind of that level of English. But he knew basketball stuff real easily and picked it up quickly.

“He’s so long. He’s got a good touch, just real skinny still.”

112288

by **bobheckler** Sun May 22, 2016 12:22 pm

In this draft there are no obvious or, at least, very likely future superstars except for Simmons and Ingram (although, to be honest, I really question Simmons' ganas. He has had it easy so far, playing against inferior college players. You have to work your ass off everyday when you get to the NBA because the players are bigger, stronger, faster and the NBA is brutally Darwinian). Everybody from 3 down is either a solid role player or "potential". This means that unless Danny can trade up into #1 or #2 we are looking, in all likelihood, at a solid role players/adequate starter or project with the upside worth waiting for.

Likely Lottery Picks Who I Project To Be Solid role players/adequate starters include:

Buddy Hield (JR Smith without the thug mentality)
Jakob Poetl
Domantis Sabonis (think Tyler Hansbrough minus 10 pounds)
Skal Labissiere

Potential (but not obvious) Superstars:

Dragan Bender
Kris Dunn
Thon Maker

There are always "sleepers" in every draft. Kobe Bryant was picked #13. DeAndre Jordan was picked #35. Jae Crowder was picked #34. Chandler Parsons was picked #38. AJ Hammons, who appears to me to be a matchup-dependent dinosaur, could be one of these too. It happens, it's just not where the smart money is.

Therefore, it seems to me that unless Danny moves up to #1 or 2 he should either draft Bender and accept that it will take 3 years for his learning curve to flatten out (he has already played a few years on a superior pro team against players 10 years older than him) or trade the pick. Using a #3 pick on a role player who won't take us up to the next level doesn't excite me. An asset that valuable should produce an all-star, either current or future.

Just my 2c.

bob

.

by **steve3344** Sun May 22, 2016 1:54 pm

bobheckler wrote:In this draft there are no obvious or, at least, very likely future superstars except for Simmons and Ingram (although, to be honest, I really question Simmons' ganas. He has had it easy so far, playing against inferior college players. You have to work your ass off everyday when you get to the NBA because the players are bigger, stronger, faster and the NBA is brutally Darwinian). Everybody from 3 down is either a solid role player or "potential". This means that unless Danny can trade up into #1 or #2 we are looking, in all likelihood, at a solid role players/adequate starter or project with the upside worth waiting for.

Likely Lottery Picks Who I Project To Be Solid role players/adequate starters include:

Buddy Hield (JR Smith without the thug mentality)
Jakob Poetl
Domantis Sabonis (think Tyler Hansbrough minus 10 pounds)
Skal Labissiere

Potential (but not obvious) Superstars:

Dragan Bender
Kris Dunn
Thon Maker

There are always "sleepers" in every draft. Kobe Bryant was picked #13. DeAndre Jordan was picked #35. Jae Crowder was picked #34. Chandler Parsons was picked #38. AJ Hammons, who appears to me to be a matchup-dependent dinosaur, could be one of these too. It happens, it's just not where the smart money is.

Therefore, it seems to me that unless Danny moves up to #1 or 2 he should either draft Bender and accept that it will take 3 years for his learning curve to flatten out (he has already played a few years on a superior pro team against players 10 years older than him) or trade the pick. Using a #3 pick on a role player who won't take us up to the next level doesn't excite me. An asset that valuable should produce an all-star, either current or future.

Just my 2c.

bob

.

Sabonis is Bob Ryan's favorite player in the draft. Said he LOVES that kid. Saw him say that in an interview a few days ago.

by **bobheckler** Sun May 22, 2016 2:28 pm

steve3344 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:In this draft there are no obvious or, at least, very likely future superstars except for Simmons and Ingram (although, to be honest, I really question Simmons' ganas. He has had it easy so far, playing against inferior college players. You have to work your ass off everyday when you get to the NBA because the players are bigger, stronger, faster and the NBA is brutally Darwinian). Everybody from 3 down is either a solid role player or "potential". This means that unless Danny can trade up into #1 or #2 we are looking, in all likelihood, at a solid role players/adequate starter or project with the upside worth waiting for.

Likely Lottery Picks Who I Project To Be Solid role players/adequate starters include:

Buddy Hield (JR Smith without the thug mentality)
Jakob Poetl
Domantis Sabonis (think Tyler Hansbrough minus 10 pounds)
Skal Labissiere

Potential (but not obvious) Superstars:

Dragan Bender
Kris Dunn
Thon Maker

There are always "sleepers" in every draft. Kobe Bryant was picked #13. DeAndre Jordan was picked #35. Jae Crowder was picked #34. Chandler Parsons was picked #38. AJ Hammons, who appears to me to be a matchup-dependent dinosaur, could be one of these too. It happens, it's just not where the smart money is.

Therefore, it seems to me that unless Danny moves up to #1 or 2 he should either draft Bender and accept that it will take 3 years for his learning curve to flatten out (he has already played a few years on a superior pro team against players 10 years older than him) or trade the pick. Using a #3 pick on a role player who won't take us up to the next level doesn't excite me. An asset that valuable should produce an all-star, either current or future.

Just my 2c.

bob

.

Sabonis is Bob Ryan's favorite player in the draft. Said he LOVES that kid. Saw him say that in an interview a few days ago.

steve,

Well, then I guess I just disagree with Bob Ryan. I saw nothing in his game that would make him anything more than a banger. Bangers have their value, for sure, but if you want to be more than just a role player (Tyler Hansbrough) or acceptable starter (Tristan Thompson) you need more to your game. Put another way, put Tristan Thompson on a team that doesn't have 4 dead-eye shooters on it (LeBron, Irving, Love and Smith) and see how he does. Thompson was the #4 pick and he is never going to be an all-star. He can't run, he can't pick-and-pop. Take away LBJ and Irving forcing the defense to move, and give Thompson the space to get under the basket, what does he do then?

It's too bad he doesn't quite have his father's size and it's especially too bad he doesn't have his court vision and passing ability. Then I'd revise my opinion.

bob

.

by **Ram** Mon May 23, 2016 1:45 am

Bob,

You ask what Thompson would do on a team without 4 dead-eye shooters? Look no further than his stats in the two seasons prior to LBJ's arrival. He was 21 and 22 years old and played all 82 games in both seasons with a PER of 15.5 and per 36 mins averaged 13.4 pts, 10.7 boards, 1.25 assists and 1.4 STOCKS.

Since the arrival of everyone else but Irving he has played in all 82 games the past 2 seasons age 23-24 and has a PER of 15.75 and per 36 mins averaged 10.8 points, 11.3 boards, 0.8 assists and 1.5 STOCKS.

He is basically the EXACT same player. The only stat he is significantly better in is his FG% going from 48% to 57% which is obviously just a combination of going from a real young player expected to be the #2 or #3 option to a more experienced player with 2 more elite passers on the court with him while only expected to be the #5 option.

He was drafted too high and is overpaid for sure. But don't put him in the same sentence as Psycho T or call him merely an 'acceptable' starter whose success is dependent on his shooting teammates. Those guys RAVE about him as both a player and teammate. He is doing the same stuff he did before LeBron arrived and is a very good starter.

by **Ram** Mon May 23, 2016 2:35 am

Thompson is a player akin to Paul Silas, AC Green, Michael Cage, Buck Williams, Horace Grant, Tyrone Hill, Ben Wallace, PJ Brown, Kendrick Perkins, Udonis Haslem... etc. Some obviously better, some slightly worse, but all the 3rd-5th best starters on contenders playing the tough guy role at PF and C.

If you told me Sabonis would be another Thompson, I'd take him at 16 in a heartbeat. If you told me he was another Hansborough he's probably not worth pick 23. Maybe 31 or 35.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon May 23, 2016 10:50 am

Ram wrote:Thompson is a player akin to Paul Silas, AC Green, Michael Cage, Buck Williams, Horace Grant, Tyrone Hill, Ben Wallace, PJ Brown, Kendrick Perkins, Udonis Haslem... etc. Some obviously better, some slightly worse, but all the 3rd-5th best starters on contenders playing the tough guy role at PF and C.

If you told me Sabonis would be another Thompson, I'd take him at 16 in a heartbeat. If you told me he was another Hansborough he's probably not worth pick 23. Maybe 31 or 35.

great points ram, bob used to be like us, appreciating the tough hard nosed players needed to win, then as game changed, he changed and hes too much into this pace and space mentality, meanwhile guys like Thompson, Biyambo, Adams, Kantor, Bogut, Ezeli have made huge to significant contributions to their team getting to this level at playoff time and he calls these guys dinosaurs that have no place going forward, well give me some of those oldschool hardhats for say a wus like Kelly Olynck anyday on my team.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon May 23, 2016 11:03 am

and ram for a 33 year old kid, glad you brought up Paul Silas, one of the greatest role players in the history of the game, one of Reds biggest mistakes was getting rid of Silas after the 76 season, Silas on that 77 team could have been the difference in the 76er playoff series that year. If Red had kept the still great Silas and Paul Westpaul, that team had 4 titles in them. Silas could not be denied on the boards, he was that relentless and was a key contributor on the Sonics championship team in 78.

somehow one of my roles on this board is to make sure guys like Perk and Silas are not overlooked for all they did for the cause.....

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon May 23, 2016 11:12 am

if you can get a 4th round pick that will avg 10+ rebounds for ten years, thats a great pick!!!, we are still searching for a guy/force like that

by **worcester** Mon May 23, 2016 11:16 am

Cow, Bob doesn't need me to defend him, so I won't. But the NBA has clearly shifted from 1985-86 when a strong inside game was de riguer with few 3 pointers to today's game which has a plethora of 3 point attempts. I personally prefer an inside out game, and whichever style one plays, it's good/great to have a dominant center who can defend, rebound, pass, and score from 12+ feet outside. Kelly is ok on the latter 2 of those 4 attributes. I still think he'll be a strong player off the bench against the 2nd team players of our opponents. Sure wish he had a higher ceiling for a 7+ footer.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon May 23, 2016 11:27 am

worse if a guy can't anchor a defense and defend the opposite sides biggest mofo on the other team by himself, he is not a center.....we need a center, even as the game has changed.

by **worcester** Mon May 23, 2016 11:30 am

Well, for sure KO is not it. A healthy Noah would be a big plus, as would Pau. Then we can be patient while a couple of big young draftees mature.

by **Ram** Mon May 23, 2016 11:58 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:and ram for a 33 year old kid, glad you brought up Paul Silas, one of the greatest role players in the history of the game, one of Reds biggest mistakes was getting rid of Silas after the 76 season, Silas on that 77 team could have been the difference in the 76er playoff series that year. If Red had kept the still great Silas and Paul Westpaul, that team had 4 titles in them. Silas could not be denied on the boards, he was that relentless and was a key contributor on the Sonics championship team in 78.

somehow one of my roles on this board is to make sure guys like Perk and Silas are not overlooked for all they did for the cause.....

Good stuff, those are the type of players I love as well and I will always champion for them.

My father's favorite players were Silas, Hondo and Cowens and I always heard how tough they were and watched a lot of old film. I know the 1977 Celtics lost a 7 gamer to the 76ers and it definitely would have been interesting if Silas were on that team instead of Curtis Rowe. The history books and my father were not fans of Rowe and Wicks who arrived after the '76 title team, but on paper they looked like good moves. Rowe was a 25 year old all-star the year before he came here and Silas was 32. Wicks was brought over just for $ and Westphal was traded after the '75 season, when he didn't even score 10ppg, for Charlie Scott, who was a 26 year old all-star at the time and won a title in '76 putting up very good numbers.

Silas might have made a difference in a couple close games vs. Philly in '77, but there were still two more series to win after that. I could see one more title, but not 2 more. If Havlicek hadn't hurt his shoulder in '73 that team probably wins a title, or so everyone has always said.

I wouldn't want to change history at the end of the 1970's despite all that dysfunction and John Y. Brown garbage b/c it all eventually led to the team getting Bird, Parish and McHale. Who knows if they kept Silas and Westphal if those moves still happened?

by **Ram** Mon May 23, 2016 12:05 pm

Now when it comes to the 1980's I'd have liked to have seen some better drafting by Red in between Ainge in '81 and Lewis in '87.

Doc Rivers over Greg Kite in '83, Jerome Kersey over Michael Young in '84, AC Green or Terry Porter over Sam Vincent in '85. Those moves would have really helped those '87-'88 teams that were pretty close to winning titles but burned out their starting 5's.

by **bobheckler** Mon May 23, 2016 1:07 pm

Ram wrote:Now when it comes to the 1980's I'd have liked to have seen some better drafting by Red in between Ainge in '81 and Lewis in '87.

Doc Rivers over Greg Kite in '83, Jerome Kersey over Michael Young in '84, AC Green or Terry Porter over Sam Vincent in '85. Those moves would have really helped those '87-'88 teams that were pretty close to winning titles but burned out their starting 5's.

Ram,

Your examples are exactly why I consider the draft to be a crap shoot. When Red Auerbach, The Hoop Whisperer himself, can blow picks that badly there really isn't much hope for anybody else.

To respond to you and Cowens, I respected (and still respect) those players, but that was then and this is now. Just as the game changed from the mid-40's to the late '50s and then changed again in the '70s and '80s, you need players that will win in each of those eras. If the game changes because players are better shooters from range, then you need better shooters from range and better defenders out on the perimeter. I'm watching highlights of the '86 ECSF game 5 on youtube. The difference between the game then and now is HUGE! The shots they took, that they were open for, would not be open today. Tough defense? Hell yeah, they really packed the paint and defended the baseline like Spartans, but you do that now and they'll kick the ball around and rain 3s down on you at a 35-40% rate. That's an eFG% of 52.5%-60%. That's like turbo-charging a car.

I'm not saying today's style of players are necessarily better than those old-timers, what I am saying is that today's style of players are appropriate for today's game and if you want to win today, then those are the ones you go after.

bob
P.S. As an additional edit here, the Celtics outscored the Hawks 39-6 in this 3rd quarter and there was only 1 3pt fga taken in the quarter by either team, and that was by Ainge (who hit it). Can anybody see a game being played today in which there was only 1 3pt fga taken in a quarter?

.

by **Ram** Mon May 23, 2016 1:53 pm

bobheckler wrote:

To respond to you and Cowens, I respected (and still respect) those players, but that was then and this is now. Just as the game changed from the mid-40's to the late '50s and then changed again in the '70s and '80s, you need players that will win in each of those eras. If the game changes because players are better shooters from range, then you need better shooters from range and better defenders out on the perimeter. I'm watching highlights of the '86 ECSF game 5 on youtube. The difference between the game then and now is HUGE! The shots they took, that they were open for, would not be open today. Tough defense? Hell yeah, they really packed the paint and defended the baseline like Spartans, but you do that now and they'll kick the ball around and rain 3s down on you at a 35-40% rate. That's an eFG% of 52.5%-60%. That's like turbo-charging a car.

I'm not saying today's style of players are necessarily better than those old-timers, what I am saying is that today's style of players are appropriate for today's game and if you want to win today, then those are the ones you go after.

bob

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying here. I disagreed with your dismissal of Tristan Thompson as just an 'acceptable starter' who wouldn't be much w/o 4 shooters around him. The reality is that the guy was basically the same player from 2012-14 before LeBron and Love showed up and is a very good starter. Stats proved this. If Sabonis is going to be another Thompson than he is worth pick #16 any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon May 23, 2016 9:59 pm

Ram wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:and ram for a 33 year old kid, glad you brought up Paul Silas, one of the greatest role players in the history of the game, one of Reds biggest mistakes was getting rid of Silas after the 76 season, Silas on that 77 team could have been the difference in the 76er playoff series that year. If Red had kept the still great Silas and Paul Westpaul, that team had 4 titles in them. Silas could not be denied on the boards, he was that relentless and was a key contributor on the Sonics championship team in 78.

somehow one of my roles on this board is to make sure guys like Perk and Silas are not overlooked for all they did for the cause.....

Good stuff, those are the type of players I love as well and I will always champion for them.

My father's favorite players were Silas, Hondo and Cowens and I always heard how tough they were and watched a lot of old film. I know the 1977 Celtics lost a 7 gamer to the 76ers and it definitely would have been interesting if Silas were on that team instead of Curtis Rowe. The history books and my father were not fans of Rowe and Wicks who arrived after the '76 title team, but on paper they looked like good moves. Rowe was a 25 year old all-star the year before he came here and Silas was 32. Wicks was brought over just for $ and Westphal was traded after the '75 season, when he didn't even score 10ppg, for Charlie Scott, who was a 26 year old all-star at the time and won a title in '76 putting up very good numbers.

Silas might have made a difference in a couple close games vs. Philly in '77, but there were still two more series to win after that. I could see one more title, but not 2 more. If Havlicek hadn't hurt his shoulder in '73 that team probably wins a title, or so everyone has always said.

I wouldn't want to change history at the end of the 1970's despite all that dysfunction and John Y. Brown garbage b/c it all eventually led to the team getting Bird, Parish and McHale. Who knows if they kept Silas and Westphal if those moves still happened?

great stuff ram, I was a teenager during that 70's run and my old man used to talk incessantly about Russell, Cousy, the Jones brothers and ofcourse Havlicek. I still remember him screaming with glee during games and him explaining the fastbreak, 3 on 1 and 3 on 2 and I did catch the tail end of the Russell era. Hondo was ahead of his time and was the mold for Derek Jeter, everybody gave him respect as the ultimate winner. On the 4 titles, I truly feel if we kept Westpaul, who was the best guard in the league for about 5 years, and kept Silas, that we could have gotten 2 more titles out of that team. Red didn't know how much Westpaul would improve.

One of Reds and every GM in the league's biggest mistake was passing on Julius Erving, who was playing at U Mass and was literally right in Reds backyard. I had heard of Dr J as Julius Erving even before he was drafted to the ABA from my cousins and Uncle, who was a math professor at U Mass.

by **worcester** Mon May 23, 2016 10:19 pm

Cow, I know Dr. J's daughter well. Super gal. Awesome tennis player. Got her dad's genes.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon May 23, 2016 10:31 pm

bobheckler wrote:
Ram wrote:Now when it comes to the 1980's I'd have liked to have seen some better drafting by Red in between Ainge in '81 and Lewis in '87.

Doc Rivers over Greg Kite in '83, Jerome Kersey over Michael Young in '84, AC Green or Terry Porter over Sam Vincent in '85. Those moves would have really helped those '87-'88 teams that were pretty close to winning titles but burned out their starting 5's.

Ram,

Your examples are exactly why I consider the draft to be a crap shoot. When Red Auerbach, The Hoop Whisperer himself, can blow picks that badly there really isn't much hope for anybody else.

To respond to you and Cowens, I respected (and still respect) those players, but that was then and this is now. Just as the game changed from the mid-40's to the late '50s and then changed again in the '70s and '80s, you need players that will win in each of those eras. If the game changes because players are better shooters from range, then you need better shooters from range and better defenders out on the perimeter. I'm watching highlights of the '86 ECSF game 5 on youtube. The difference between the game then and now is HUGE! The shots they took, that they were open for, would not be open today. Tough defense? Hell yeah, they really packed the paint and defended the baseline like Spartans, but you do that now and they'll kick the ball around and rain 3s down on you at a 35-40% rate. That's an eFG% of 52.5%-60%. That's like turbo-charging a car.

I'm not saying today's style of players are necessarily better than those old-timers, what I am saying is that today's style of players are appropriate for today's game and if you want to win today, then those are the ones you go after.

bob
P.S. As an additional edit here, the Celtics outscored the Hawks 39-6 in this 3rd quarter and there was only 1 3pt fga taken in the quarter by either team, and that was by Ainge (who hit it). Can anybody see a game being played today in which there was only 1 3pt fga taken in a quarter?

.

so bob without any change in personel or playing style, which team would win, the 86 Celtics or 87 Lakers or 83 76ers vs your pick on todays team?

by **112288** Mon May 23, 2016 10:34 pm

Played pick-up ball with him in Hempstead and Roosevelt and Baldwin park games when we were about 15 - 16. Even then you could tell he has something special!

112288

by **worcester** Mon May 23, 2016 10:42 pm

I bet he can still play. But he'd get winded quick.

by **bobc33** Mon May 23, 2016 10:45 pm

BobH that was a fascinating video of a great third quarter. Very good point above us the lack of attempted threes, forgot just how reluctant everyone was to take them back then.

I wonder why it took so many years for the game to evolve to where it is today?

by **worcester** Mon May 23, 2016 10:46 pm

Cow, given how okc is handling gsw, i'd take the 86 celtics over either now - of course without today's hand check or flagrant foul rules. Bird and Ainge could still bomb from outside, and the Celts would own every rebound on O and D, plus make 65%+ of interior baskets attempted.

by **bobc33** Mon May 23, 2016 10:56 pm

so bob without any change in personel or playing style, which team would win, the 86 Celtics or 87 Lakers or 83 76ers vs your pick on todays team?[/quote]

Cow I know you are asking BobH, and we'll never be able answer the question, but darn if I don't think the Warriors of last year could stay close with the 86 Celtics, with the eventual winner being..........

Our big three, with Walton coming off the bench, would destroy them down low. Yet, with the Warriors launching and making so many more threes than us, the advantage would have to be with.............

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