Durant to Golden State

cowens/oldschool wrote:Durant is a pussy, he couldn't come near holding any of the greats of the games jockstrap, hes a 6'11" version of George Gervin, who also couldn't defend for shit. The player that first made the Finals against Lebron couldn't take over a game back then and 9 years later he still can't do it in the clutch, same overated game, for all his gaudy stats I'd take a primetime Paul Pierce over Durant anyday, Pierce always had ganas, Durant has no balls and never grew them.

That's fine. You don't have to like Durant's decision, but you reinforce my point that criticism of his decision is based primarily on emotion.

As for Durant's defense, I think you're selling him way short. He was a (literally) huge part of the Thunder's "small" lineup that was really long and gave the Warriors fits in games 1-4. They took the concept of the Warriors small lineup that had been so successful and supersized it, with Durant at 6-11 and 7-5 wingspan being the difference maker. He was really active, tipping balls, blocking shots, and creating havoc all over the court. He and Roberson were the most impactful defensively. Just my take.

Outside

If you go back to the 2016 Playoff Thread, I was taking shots at Durant then based on his play, that he had too many minutes of non aggression and disappeared for key stretches. His outside shooting was also pretty underwhelming this playoff run for someone with such a reputation as a lights out 3 point shooter. Look how hard Lebron played down 3-1 and look how Durant couldn't lead or take charge and get anything going to take over very winnable games once up 3-1. His defense is like Steph Curry's, they couldn't put him on Irving or Westbrook for obvious reasons, in 12 they couldn't put Durant on Lebron either, Durant probably asked for someone else to cover Lebron, but I will agree on a team with Igoudala and Barnes at SF, he could freelance a little and not get exposed defensively too much. When Durant first didn't/couldn't take charge vs Heat and Lebron in 12 we all gave him a pass because he was young, well his game really hasn't evolved much since then, he still can't do it at crunch time and he knows that, so why play with that burden that true superstars embrace? Magic couldn't wait to get back to Finals in 85 and take it to C's and Larry....and that bad finish in 85 fueled Bird to have his best season in 86, thats how the greats handled their business, Durant is not a great, his game and character on the floor has flaws.

On another note in 69 when the Lakers created the first super team, Bill Russell stepped up and showed everybody what Celtic Pride and Celtic basketball is all about. I was a kid, but I still remember that old team was a huge underdog vs that stacked Laker team and now that I think about it I'm actually glad we didn't sign Durant.

cow

Another old school all time great that would expose/destroy Durant is a primetime John Havlicek, even though Spurs lost series, alot of teams found the best way to cover Durant is a tall fast 2-3 like Danny Green that can stay in front of Durant and bother his handle. Durant is too skinny and frail and never developed a physical post up game despite being 6'11" to punish other teams when they have little 6'5"- 6'6" guys on him. Could you imagine what a 2 way relentless runner and defender like Hondo would do to Durant? On defense Durant wouldn't be able to keep up with Hondo, especially Hondo putting him through a maze of picks with and without the ball. Look how many times Hondo came through with intangibles and making the right play and hitting big shots in the clutch, and heres Durant who never got that all out hustle part of the game developed like a KG or Lebron, Durant is soft, especially in the clutch.

Cow, if he's such a lousy player, then I guess all this fuss is over nothing. If he's not good enough to be "the man," then I guess he shouldn't be criticized for not choosing a team where he could win a title as "the man."

People like Charles Barkley say it shouldn't matter if he ever wins a title, but criticism of Durant like yours is what happens to a player's reputation when he doesn't win one.

Winning titles cures all ills. Look at what's happened to LeBron -- he's practically deified now after all-time great performances in games 5-7, and the criticism that came with his sub-par, iso-heavy play in games 1-4 is forgotten, let alone his disappearing act in the 2011 finals and his ineffectual individual, non-team play in the 2014 finals. If Golden State makes one or two more open shots in game 7, Bogut doesn't get hurt, Iguodala doesn't get back spasms, or Kerr doesn't pull a boneheaded move and put Ezeli in late in the fourth in game 7 -- moves outside of LeBron's control -- he doesn't win that title and seemingly get elevated to the Mt. Rushmore of all-time greats by those making snap judgments.

A true assessment should require more than the attention span of a fruit fly. It's looking at the body of work and not deifying LeBron because Cleveland won this title or crucifying Durant because OKC lost the conference finals. But for many, that's not how it works, and a particular instance of winning or losing in the playoffs becomes the indelible image of that player.

Sometimes winning titles is truly outside of a great player's control, but winning titles can solidify the perception of a great player. I knew KG was good, but I didn't know he was that good until he joined the Celtics and they won the title. But for the first 12 seasons of his career, he was a guy who was good enough to win an MVP but couldn't get anywhere in the playoffs. Chris Paul is denigrated by some as a guy who has great regular seasons but has never been good enough to get to a conference finals. Before he won a title, Oscar was viewed by some as a player focused on individual stats who wasn't good enough to win a title. Karl Malone is viewed by some as a great player who shrunk on the biggest stage.

For KG and Oscar, joining great players on another team to win a title changed the perception of them as players. For Karl Malone and Chris Paul, not winning a title is a stain on their careers. If Durant plays well and wins a title with the Warriors, any perception of him being soft in the clutch will be rewritten.

Outside I never ripped Durant for not winning a championship, I pointed out flaws in his game and commented about how he took the easy way out. Instead of going thru the growing pains with his team which is a unique process that all the greats except Bill Russell had to go through at some level, he bailed. Instead of learning how to improve his game and improve how to make his teammates better, he bailed. Instead of being a great example to young people that in life there are going to be obstacles, but you have to dig deeper within yourself and go stronger and harder and leave it all on the floor....he bailed. Instead of having a chip on his shoulder and getting his team ready for a bigger better dynamic run to play even more together and play harder and better for each other, he bailed.

Let us remember it is Durant's choice where he wants to play. Nobody passes judgment on where we want to work except maybe family members or close friends. I wasn't upset when LeBron went to Miami or came back to Cleveland. It was his decision. I was bugged by how he made each move a public spectacle including a ring count in Miami and his TV show when announcing the King was moving. I wonder how many people in OKC were critical of the the move from Seattle in like stealing another citie's franchies.

Outside wrote:Cow, if he's such a lousy player, then I guess all this fuss is over nothing. If he's not good enough to be "the man," then I guess he shouldn't be criticized for not choosing a team where he could win a title as "the man."

People like Charles Barkley say it shouldn't matter if he ever wins a title, but criticism of Durant like yours is what happens to a player's reputation when he doesn't win one.

Winning titles cures all ills. Look at what's happened to LeBron -- he's practically deified now after all-time great performances in games 5-7, and the criticism that came with his sub-par, iso-heavy play in games 1-4 is forgotten, let alone his disappearing act in the 2011 finals and his ineffectual individual, non-team play in the 2014 finals. If Golden State makes one or two more open shots in game 7, Bogut doesn't get hurt, Iguodala doesn't get back spasms, or Kerr doesn't pull a boneheaded move and put Ezeli in late in the fourth in game 7 -- moves outside of LeBron's control -- he doesn't win that title and seemingly get elevated to the Mt. Rushmore of all-time greats by those making snap judgments.

A true assessment should require more than the attention span of a fruit fly. It's looking at the body of work and not deifying LeBron because Cleveland won this title or crucifying Durant because OKC lost the conference finals. But for many, that's not how it works, and a particular instance of winning or losing in the playoffs becomes the indelible image of that player.

Sometimes winning titles is truly outside of a great player's control, but winning titles can solidify the perception of a great player. I knew KG was good, but I didn't know he was that good until he joined the Celtics and they won the title. But for the first 12 seasons of his career, he was a guy who was good enough to win an MVP but couldn't get anywhere in the playoffs. Chris Paul is denigrated by some as a guy who has great regular seasons but has never been good enough to get to a conference finals. Before he won a title, Oscar was viewed by some as a player focused on individual stats who wasn't good enough to win a title. Karl Malone is viewed by some as a great player who shrunk on the biggest stage.

For KG and Oscar, joining great players on another team to win a title changed the perception of them as players. For Karl Malone and Chris Paul, not winning a title is a stain on their careers. If Durant plays well and wins a title with the Warriors, any perception of him being soft in the clutch will be rewritten.

I just wanted to point out we are in total agreement about KG, I too had seen him from afar and thought he was easily first team all NBA before he joined the Celtics. I think I read somewhere years ago, he had the most 20-10-5 seasons of anyone in history and 2nd most was Larry Bird. Then when he came here and transformed the team and lead them to the best record in a dominant season, yeah I didn't know he was that great either until he got here and he wasn't a prolific scorer, he was a great ball handler and passer for a big and ofcourse his defense was incredible, worthy of Russell comparisons. Best defensive PF ever, more athletic than Duncan or McHale and maybe more intense than anyone in history? How did he not get the MVP in 08? and thanks especially KG for accepting that trade to the Nets!!! your still helping us.

a real superstar would be primed to go back at the Warriors harder and better prepared and motivated to make up for the loss, they would be ozzing revenge, revenge, working and working and seething to get back after it next year......NOT jump to that other team....?????

cowens/oldschool wrote:a real superstar would be primed to go back at the Warriors harder and better prepared and motivated to make up for the loss, they would be ozzing revenge, revenge, working and working and seething to get back after it next year......NOT jump to that other team....?????

Maybe after being engaged to the same Gal for 9 years, and no ring to show for it, he figured that the only way he would ever get a ring would be to find another woman that seemed to be more suited for marriage.

swish

swish wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:a real superstar would be primed to go back at the Warriors harder and better prepared and motivated to make up for the loss, they would be ozzing revenge, revenge, working and working and seething to get back after it next year......NOT jump to that other team....?????

 Maybe after being engaged to the same Gal for 9 years, and no ring to show for it, he figured that the only way he would ever get a ring would be to find another woman that seemed to be more suited for marriage.

  swish

LOL, good one.

swish wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:a real superstar would be primed to go back at the Warriors harder and better prepared and motivated to make up for the loss, they would be ozzing revenge, revenge, working and working and seething to get back after it next year......NOT jump to that other team....?????

 Maybe after being engaged to the same Gal for 9 years, and no ring to show for it, he figured that the only way he would ever get a ring would be to find another woman that seemed to be more suited for marriage.

  swish

he walked out at the alter with his fiances hottest friend, what a nice guy!!!

cowens/oldschool wrote:

swish wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:a real superstar would be primed to go back at the Warriors harder and better prepared and motivated to make up for the loss, they would be ozzing revenge, revenge, working and working and seething to get back after it next year......NOT jump to that other team....?????

 Maybe after being engaged to the same Gal for 9 years, and no ring to show for it, he figured that the only way he would ever get a ring would be to find another woman that seemed to be more suited for marriage.

  swish

he walked out at the alter with his fiances hottest friend, what a nice guy!!!

  Sounds to me like he ditched a dog for a winner - smart guy - and now after 9 years with Atlanta I hope Horford gets his ring with the Celts.

  swish

Maybe Durant cares more about winning a ring than being called a superstar. The whole issue is another media driven show. Notice the slant on the story where Durant is pursuing a ring, rather than the money, is largely ignored by the media, from where I sit.

glad Larry and Magic and Isiah and Michael all wanted to kill each other on the floor

cowens/oldschool wrote:glad Larry and Magic and Isiah and Michael all wanted to kill each other on the floor

Larry, Magic, Isiah and Michael ,up to 1988, played under a vastly different form of free agency then exist now.
See below article.

"Before Tom Chambers, NBA free agency wasn't very "free" at all. It seems like an idea completely detached from the current league, but before 1988, the NBA's top stars hardly moved around. If your contract was up, you generally signed a new one with your previous team. If another team wanted to sign you, they'd need to send compensation to the previous team.

Chambers' case was the first in true free agency history. Chambers enjoyed moderate success with the Seattle SuperSonics, putting up 20 points and seven rebounds per game over four years, and after his deal expired in 1988 he was certainly due for a raise. The earliest stages of unrestricted free agency were implemented that summer, and soon, a precedent was set. The Phoenix Suns wined and dined Chambers before presenting a five-year, multi-million dollar offer, and the NBA had its first free agency poster boy."

By 1988 Larry and Magic already had 3 championships under their belts while Isiah got his ring during his 1st year of modern free agency and Michael got his during his 3rd year of modern free agency.


swish

"Kevin Durant was almost 'ready to go' sign with the Boston Celtics when Tom Brady joined pitch meeting"

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/kevin-durant-signed-celtics-tom-brady-article-1.2717452

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/07/21/jae-crowder-told-kevin-durant-celtics-gameplan-to-beat-warriors-mad-durant-still-chose-warriors/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs&yptr=yahoo

Kevin Durant said he nearly picked the Celtics because they brought Tom Brady to their meeting.

Jae Crowder saw another reason Durant should’ve chosen Boston over the Warriors.

Crowder, via Tom Westerholm of MassLive:

“We were the only team in the NBA to beat both (Cleveland and Golden State) on their home court — the only team in the NBA, the Boston Celtics,” Crowder said. “We told him that. We played him clips from both games and told him basically the scouting report of how we guarded Steph (Curry) and Klay (Thompson) — our entire game plan, basically. That’s what made me mad. We (expletive) told him everything we do to beat these guys, and we beat them, and he went and joined them. … I felt like afterward, I was talking to Isaiah, like maybe after you sit back, you shouldn’t have told him everything, but who the (expletive) thought he was going to Golden State, realistically? It was like a slap in the face for us, basically.

That team is for sure the villain of the league,” Crowder said. “Every other NBA guy, friends of mine, are really disgusted from how the league is turning on that standpoint. Everybody is joining together, everybody wants to go to Golden State or Cleveland.”

steve3344 wrote:http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/07/21/jae-crowder-told-kevin-durant-celtics-gameplan-to-beat-warriors-mad-durant-still-chose-warriors/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs&yptr=yahoo

Kevin Durant said he nearly picked the Celtics because they brought Tom Brady to their meeting.

Jae Crowder saw another reason Durant should’ve chosen Boston over the Warriors.

Crowder, via Tom Westerholm of MassLive:

“We were the only team in the NBA to beat both (Cleveland and Golden State) on their home court — the only team in the NBA, the Boston Celtics,” Crowder said. “We told him that. We played him clips from both games and told him basically the scouting report of how we guarded Steph (Curry) and Klay (Thompson) — our entire game plan, basically. That’s what made me mad. We (expletive) told him everything we do to beat these guys, and we beat them, and he went and joined them. … I felt like afterward, I was talking to Isaiah, like maybe after you sit back, you shouldn’t have told him everything, but who the (expletive) thought he was going to Golden State, realistically? It was like a slap in the face for us, basically.

That team is for sure the villain of the league,” Crowder said. “Every other NBA guy, friends of mine, are really disgusted from how the league is turning on that standpoint. Everybody is joining together, everybody wants to go to Golden State or Cleveland.”

Jae Crowder for President!!