Celtics 'phones are ringing' ... maybe for Jahlil Okafor or DeMarcus Cousins?

CSNNE

By Kevin O'Connor July 08, 2016 12:57 PM


WALTHAM – Al Horford believes that by signing with the Boston Celtics, the doors have been opened for “many other big free agents” to join the team in the future. But owner Wyc Grousbeck and president of basketball operations Danny Ainge have been adamant that -- at least for this summer -- the Celtics aren’t quite done yet.

“Well, I feel the phones are definitely ringing. Danny is definitely talking to people for sure, and has indicated that our work is not yet done,” Grousbeck said at the Celtics practice facility in Waltham. “But I’ve got to say that I feel good about this team and I feel patient. We have draft picks coming up. We have a long-term strategy. I don’t just want [Banner] 18. I want 19 and 20.”

Ainge supported those comments, telling reporters in Utah, “We are still looking at doing deals and we’re certainly not finished for the summer.”

The Celtics are aiming to build a dynasty, not just be in the conversation for a title, and maybe win one. Ownership and the front office are thinking big, so should fans should too -- at least with the understanding that it may be an extended process before reaching that level.

So if the Celtics actually aren’t done, who are they aiming for?

Grousbeck spoke on 98.5 The Sports Hub’s Felger & Mazz on Thursday and suggested it's a player they had previously targeted.

“We were just talking about a trade earlier today where the asking price from the other team was for a difficult player, and I’m not going to say who, but it’s dropped pretty significantly since draft night," Grousbeck said Thursday. According to various reports prior to and after the draft, the Celtics reportedly targeted Chicago wing Jimmy Butler, Milwaukee wing Khris Middleton, Sacramento big man DeMarcus Cousins, and Philadelphia centers Jahlil Okafor and Nerlens Noel.

Butler is likely off the table due to their recent signings of Dwyane Wade and Rajon Rondo, and the Bucks would be without a shooter if they dealt Middleton. However, Okafor, Noel, and Cousins could still be available, and both the Sixers and Kings are in need of a point guard, which the Celtics have a surplus of. Cousins has long attracted the Celtics, and perhaps the Kings would be more willing to move him, especially considering their immense depth and youth at the big man position.

Cousins averaged 26.9 points per game last year as one of the NBA’s most ferocious scorers. He can score effectively from all levels of the floor and is a much better defender than he credits for. He would immediately elevate the Celtics to contender status.

But personality-wise he's a shaky fit. Cousins hasn’t clashed with coaches, teammates, executives, and referees. He’s an egotistic player who might operate well in a winning environment, but he also might not. The Celtics’ team chemistry is fluid and Cousins could taint it.

The demand in a trade would also be significant. Unless the price has fallen off a cliff, the Celtics would likely have to include one of their talented point guards (Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier), as well as the 2017 Nets swap and/or 2018 Nets first, and probably even more.

Cost/risk analysis might prove to be too significant for the Celtics to commit to Cousins being the player to help bring a banner.

So what about the Sixers? They wanted to draft Kris Dunn, but they were reportedly asking for the No. 3 pick and more for Okafor or Noel, which is outrageous. Grousbeck said the price has come down "pretty significantly" on the player they were discussing, so maybe it's them.

Both Okafor and Noel can’t space the floor, and the Sixers drafted another non-shooting forward/big in Ben Simmons. Joel Embiid is also expected to return, so they now have an overflow of depth in the frontcourt. The Sixers are almost forced to make a trade or they risk having an unbalanced roster. The Celtics have plenty of picks they can part with in the future, though they’d prefer to hold onto both Nets picks. Philadelphia also needs a point guard, so both Smart and Rozier should be intriguing to them. Rozier’s emergence in summer league has also helped make one of them somewhat expendable.

By using process of elimination and context clues, it’s reasonable to assume that Noel or Okafor could be the Celtics’ target that Grousbeck has been hinting at.

Of the two, Okafor is more likely. Though Noel would be a tremendous fit next to Horford, the Celtics insist on remaining flexible, and Noel would prevent them from doing that. He’s a restricted free agent next summer and will demand a max contract, so the Celtics would be locked into a roster including Noel as a core piece. If you keep in mind Grousbeck’s comments about Banners 18, 19, and 20, that path wouldn’t get them to where they want to be.

But Okafor could. The second-year center doesn’t hit restricted free agency until 2019, so if the Celtics were to acquire him, they would still retain the cap space to sign another max level free agent next summer.

Okafor would give them a go-to scoring option as well. He averaged 17.5 points per game as a rookie and is already a dominant low post scorer. When most teams are zigging by going small, the Celtics could zag by adding one of the league’s young, great interior threats. They haven’t use the low post frequently in the past (sixth-least in post ups last year, per Synergy/NBA.com), but Okafor is still a weapon that can be used to their advantage. He’s a beast in the paint, and a significantly better passer than he showed last season. Plus, the Celtics like to run their offense through their bigs.

“We play through our bigs a lot and that’s something we have a desire to continue to do,” Celtics head coach Brad Stevens said when asked about Horford. “It’s great from a fit standpoint in a lot of ways, but certainly in the way we play.”

Though Okafor has his limitations as a defender and he doesn’t space the floor offensively, Horford helps mitigate some of those flaws as one of the rare bigs that can both stretch the floor and protect the rim.

It would’ve been a bad idea for the Celtics to deal the No. 3 pick for a player with Okafor’s limitation, but if the price is actually down, then he makes a great deal of sense as a low-cost, high-upside player that would still allow them to make noise in the trade and free agent market next summer.

Kevin O’Connor can be followed on Twitter: @KevinOConnorNBA.

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I would deal Smart before Rozier. I have a feeling Rozier might turn out to be special. Some say shooting is the easiest thing to learn , but I haven`t seen much progress there . I like Smart`s competetiveness and defense but he doesn`t have much of an offensive skill set . I suppose he could start raining threes and become Bruce  Bowen. We may have a glut of guards, but the only real point guards are IT  and Rozier, and even Thomas is more of a 2 in a point guard`s body. I know I`m in the minority here, but I would take a chance on Cousins if the price was right ( it probably won`t be), and he agreed to a workable contract. I think he`s the best center in the game and he seldom misses games.

we just signed Horford, why does anyone think we need another Starting center?

I know, I know....Horford supposedly wants to be a PF. Too bad after 10 years as an NBA center, that's what you are.

are the Celtics going to go with a "twin towers" approach?

doubtful to me.

now, if you want to talk about the Celtics trading for an elite outside shooter/scorer....now THAT would make sense.

Middleton still in play?

kdp59 wrote:we just signed Horford, why does anyone think we need another Starting center?

I know, I know....Horford supposedly wants to be a PF. Too bad after 10 years as an NBA center, that's what you are.

are the Celtics going to go with a "twin towers" approach?

doubtful to me.

now, if you want to talk about the Celtics trading for an elite outside shooter/scorer....now THAT would make sense.

Middleton still in play?

Amir is probably gone next year and if Sully stays he is probably gone next year as well.  I have not heard much about Zeller either.

long term maybe we need to get a young center now.  on the other hand we can still use a shooter.

dboss

jrleftfoot wrote:

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I would deal Smart before Rozier. I have a feeling Rozier might turn out to be special. Some say shooting is the easiest thing to learn , but I haven`t seen much progress there . I like Smart`s competetiveness and defense but he doesn`t have much of an offensive skill set . I suppose he could start raining threes and become Bruce  Bowen. We may have a glut of guards, but the only real point guards are IT  and Rozier, and even Thomas is more of a 2 in a point guard`s body. I know I`m in the minority here, but I would take a chance on Cousins if the price was right ( it probably won`t be), and he agreed to a workable contract. I think he`s the best center in the game and he seldom misses games.

You make some valid points.  Smart does not shoot the ball well enough to play the 2 and his PG skills are also limited.  He is a player without a position but he can play great defense.  I think he is a specialty player.  Rosier looks really good at the point and he is significantly quicker with the ball in his hands than Smart.  If I had to make a choice I would keep Rosier.

dboss

I say 'no' to Okafur if it means parting with the #3 AND Smart.

Okafur is a good offensive player in the paint only.  56% of his fgas are at the rim and <6' is the only shot zone where he shoots over 50%.  In other words, he's Shaq.  Now, that might not be the worst thing, The Diesel was the best center of his era, if that is the only part of the game you look at.  Shaq was also a pretty good defender.  Okafur is not.

Take a look at the charts on this link.  If Okafur took just 2 dribbles his fg% dropped below 50%.  Speaking of Shaq, he would keep his dribble alive for as long as it took to either bounce his man into the 3rd row or until they threw a double team at him.

He had almost 2x as many TOs as assists (2.3 TOs vs 1.2 assists).  That sucks.  Period.  Even for a big.

He shot 50.8% last year, virtually all from point-blank range.  Amir shot 58.5% last year, also almost all from point-blank.  I know about $ and all but how is Okafur an upgrade over Amir?  Amir is 3x the defender Okafur is.  Okafur shot 68.6% from the line.  15' is out of his range. How does that fit "pace and space".

Okafur played at a 97.65ppg pace. Sully played at a 100.21ppg pace. Jeez.

Okafur's fg%, in the clutch, is worst than Sully's. So, what's so great about him?

Click on the tab that takes you to defense.  You'll see he is useless more than a few feet from the rim.

Now go to matchups on offense.  Sully held him to 40%.  Why?  Because Okafur is useless outside of 6'.

He averaged 1.4 blocks/36mpg.  Amir was 1.7 blocks/36.  Shaq, just to continue with that comparison, averaged 2.3 blocks/36mpg in his career.  


http://nbasavant.com/player.php?ddlYear=2015&ddlShotMade=&ddlTeamDefense=&player_id=1626143



Do we need beef?  Yeah, we do, but let's find someone besides a one-trick dinosaur like Jahlil Okafur and let's not give up too much for him.

Sorry. NOT a fan of his game. You need to be more than just BIG in this NBA.


bob


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Okafor would not be a good addition if he were to cost either Smart or Rozier at this point.

Both Smart and Rozier can be traded, however, but if they are traded a much better player than Okafor (Cousins?) must be part of such a trade.

I think Sullinger is gone and Horford is no great shakes as a rebounder. I think his natural position is the 4. Its not so much where he wants to play , but what he is better at. I think he is better facing the basket.  That`s why I was surprised Zizic was sent packing so quickly. I think Ainge has somebody in mind and I hope its not Okafor

bobheckler wrote:I say 'no' to Okafur if it means parting with the #3 AND Smart.

Okafur is a good offensive player in the paint only.  56% of his fgas are at the rim and <6' is the only shot zone where he shoots over 50%.  In other words, he's Shaq.  Now, that might not be the worst thing, The Diesel was the best center of his era, if that is the only part of the game you look at.  Shaq was also a pretty good defender.  Okafur is not.

Take a look at the charts on this link.  If Okafur took just 2 dribbles his fg% dropped below 50%.  Speaking of Shaq, he would keep his dribble alive for as long as it took to either bounce his man into the 3rd row or until they threw a double team at him.

He had almost 2x as many TOs as assists (2.3 TOs vs 1.2 assists).  That sucks.  Period.  Even for a big.

He shot 50.8% last year, virtually all from point-blank range.  Amir shot 58.5% last year, also almost all from point-blank.  I know about $ and all but how is Okafur an upgrade over Amir?  Amir is 3x the defender Okafur is.  Okafur shot 68.6% from the line.  15' is out of his range.  How does that fit "pace and space".  

Okafur played at a 97.65ppg pace.  Sully played at a 100.21ppg pace.  Jeez.

Okafur's fg%, in the clutch, is worst than Sully's.  So, what's so great about him?

Click on the tab that takes you to defense.  You'll see he is useless more than a few feet from the rim.

Now go to matchups on offense.  Sully held him to 40%.  Why?  Because Okafur is useless outside of 6'.

He averaged 1.4 blocks/36mpg.  Amir was 1.7 blocks/36.  Shaq, just to continue with that comparison, averaged 2.3 blocks/36mpg in his career.  


http://nbasavant.com/player.php?ddlYear=2015&ddlShotMade=&ddlTeamDefense=&player_id=1626143



Do we need beef?  Yeah, we do, but let's find someone besides a one-trick dinosaur like Jahlil Okafur and let's not give up too much for him.

Sorry.  NOT a fan of his game.  You need to be more than just BIG in this NBA.


bob


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Okafor is definitely an upgrade over Amir.  I have to disagree with you about that.

Amir is very much on the downside of his career.  

Okafor is still a kid and he put up very good rookie numbers.  comparing pace and other things does not contemplate that teams play different styles.  As far as scoring what is with this rejection of embracing a low post scorer?  It is not like Amir shoots the ball well from deep.  As a point in fact Amir was horrible from deep last year.

I am not advocating for Okafor but just pointing out that Amir has no upside just downside and he is not a long term solution at center or any other position.

Anyways my main concern is about shooting.  DA has yet to address that issue.  We still do not have a reliable bu at the 2.  

dboss

jrleftfoot wrote:I think Sullinger is gone and Horford is no great shakes as a rebounder. I think his natural position is the 4. Its not so much where he wants to play , but what he is better at. I think he is better facing the basket.  That`s why I was surprised Zizic was sent packing so quickly. I think Ainge has somebody in mind and I hope its not Okafor

Jr,

One of the ideas I'm coming to accept is that traditional statistics are becoming less and less relevant as we move towards a positionless NBA.  When Horford is out at the 3pt arc to challenge shooters, or drive them off the arc, as we saw in the playoffs then he is not likely to get that rebound because he is out of position.  He is, however, doing a great job for his team.  The flip side of that is that guards and wings like Brown and Rozier and Bradley will get more rebounds because there will still be rebounds to be had and our other bigs can box them out and let the back court players go get the ball. And having the ball in the back court's hands is where we want to get it anyway.

A more relevant stat is "what % of the defensive rebounds does Player X get when he is within Y feet of them?".  Unfortunately, stats with that kind of depth are often not available to fans.

If Amir's rebound/minute goes way up this year because Horford is out challenging shooters, and making them miss, and he doesn't have Sully still down there trying to grab the rebound (and unwilling to go out to the arc like Horford will) too that's ok with me.


bob


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Mark Murphy
@Murf56 about 13 minutes ago
Celtics renouncing qualifying offer to Sullinger makes clear they didn't see him fitting with Horford, Amir, et al. Need more spacers.

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bob
MY NOTE:  If Sully isn't enough of a floor spacer, doesn't that eliminate Okafur as a trade possibility?  Sully has MUCH better range than Okafur.

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Why does everyone keep spelling Okafor's name wrong? Yeesh.

Sully is renounced because he has and will continue to have conditioning issues.  He cannot get up and down the court.  

If the Celtics decided to get rid of all players on the team that are poor 3 point shooters most of the team would we gone.

dboss

Ram wrote:Why does everyone keep spelling Okafor's name wrong? Yeesh.

Ram,

Fur no good reason.


bob


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Poor guy can't catch a break on this site, haha, not only does everybody hate his game they also diss his name.

Still learning to navigate the site, so I hope I am responding to Bob Heckler`s response to me---lol. Valid points, Bob. I`m not criticizing Horford`s game. (Heck , as a former Gator myself and an admirer of former Miss Universes, I am happy to have him , and his wife on our side.) His game is what it is and I expect he`ll be a great addition. Using old school statistics, however, I just don`t expect him to grab a slew of rebounds and I`d rather see a big pull them down and hit a ball-handler in stride streaking down court than a guard fighting for the ball and having to take it the length of the floor. I am aware that those are not the only two possibilities , of course. Just saying that with Sullinger gone we need a defensive rebounder more than ever.

Sully is a good rebounder. Sully is not a great rebounder. Al will account for 90% of the rebounds that Sully got.

Other guys have to pick up the slack.

dboss

jrleftfoot wrote:Still learning to navigate the site, so I hope I am responding to Bob Heckler`s response to me---lol. Valid points, Bob. I`m not criticizing Horford`s game. (Heck , as a former Gator myself and an admirer of former Miss Universes, I am  happy to have him , and his wife on our side.) His game is what it is and I expect he`ll be a great addition. Using old school statistics, however,  I just don`t expect him to grab a slew of rebounds and I`d rather see a big pull them down and hit a ball-handler in stride streaking down court than a guard fighting for the ball and having to take it the length of the floor. I am aware that those are not the only two possibilities , of course. Just saying that with Sullinger gone we need a defensive rebounder more than ever.

Jr,

If you want to respond to a specific post, click 'quote' at the top right hand corner of the post you wish to reply to, go down past the last [/quote], hit return a few times and begin your reply.


bob


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dboss wrote:Sully is a good rebounder.  Sully is not a great rebounder.  Al will account for 90% of the rebounds that Sully got.

Other guys have to pick up the slack.

dboss

Statistically speaking Horford will account for about 65% of Sully's rebounds. Sully grabbed 8.3 boards in 24 mins last year. Horford has averaged roughly 32 minutes and 7.3 rebs each of the last two seasons, since he had the muscle tear after a fantastic start to the 2013-14 season (like 18p/9r in 30 games).

So over just the 24 mins of Sully's he will be replacing he will grab 5.4 rebs to the 8.3 Sully was getting. Of course he will be better in EVERYTHING else on the court. So we'll have a more positive impact overall, with a minor dip in rebounding. Stinks to get a little worse at the battle of the boards, but it is a very small sacrifice to make to get a lot better in the end. 

Horford will also be getting 8 minutes a game that went to Zeller or David Lee. And the team will be much better for those minutes as well and might actually see an increase in rebounding there. I didn't crunch the #'s, but we can safely assume Horford will have more impact regardless. 

If there are 96 minutes available to two "bigs" then I see this breakdown:

Horford - 32 mins
Johnson - 24 mins
Olynyk - 24 mins
Jerebko - 8 mins
Unknown big (Zeller, Yabusele, Mickey) - 8 mins

It is too bad the C's didn't just renounce the rights to both Zeller and Sully and use their remaining 8-9 million in cap space to get Ezeli for the same 2/15 (or even like 2/18 with year one 8.5m and year two a 9.5m team option). He would have been good for 24 mins a game. Taking the ones we'd give Jerebko, the as of yet unknown big and cutting Amir/Olynyk down to 18-22 mins.

I think we are ok for now as long as we add a veteran for depth who is a true center. We have enough guys 6'10" or under who are just as much PF's as they are C's in Horford, Mickey, Jerebko, Johnson and Bentil. That last veteran, Amir and Jerebko are probably gone after this season, replaced by Zizic, Yabusele and either a draft pick or FA next summer.

good research Ram

I think Amir may play less minutes..say 20 MPG.

This of course is speculative.  All the analytics will change.

bob Okafor is 20 years old or so and can create his own shot in the low block in a variety of ways, his defense and rebounding can improve, I think your looking into this analytics stuff too much. Hes a true center, don't forget who he is playing with and the Sixers plight last season, its not an ideal environment to grow and develop. Get the right coaching and pieces around this kid and lets see what he can do, its not like he defends at KO's level.

REPORT: JAHLIL OKAFOR 'UPSET' SIXERS 'TRIED LIKE HELL' TO TRADE HIM

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/report-jahlil-okafor-upset-sixers-tried-hell-trade-him?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

Poor baby.  

"and his people are upset."

So what are "his people" going to do about it?   Firebomb the Spectrum?

Okafor would be a great addition, allowing Horford to move to the 4 (agree with leftfoot; he's better suited there anyway) and in time hopefully creating a great frontline with Brown.  For a guy that played hurt and then missed a good part of his rookie year, Okafor looked just fine.  Problem is, I still don't believe the 6ers have any real interest in trading him.  Not until they can get a look at Embiid over an extended period in the regular season, at least.  You have to give value to get value, so that Nets pick would probably be in play along with Smart or Bradley.  I could see dealing one of those two guards, but would hate to part with that pick; next year it could easily lead to a center or shooter.

NYCelt wrote:Okafor would be a great addition, allowing Horford to move to the 4 (agree with leftfoot; he's better suited there anyway) and in time hopefully creating a great frontline with Brown.  For a guy that played hurt and then missed a good part of his rookie year, Okafor looked just fine.  Problem is, I still don't believe the 6ers have any real interest in trading him.  Not until they can get a look at Embiid over an extended period in the regular season, at least.  You have to give value to get value, so that Nets pick would probably be in play along with Smart or Bradley.  I could see dealing one of those two guards, but would hate to part with that pick; next year it could easily lead to a center or shooter.

Next year's draft is expected to be very strong. I want to keep the pick unless an extraordinary deal happens (Cousins). Wouldn't give it up for Okafor.

steve3344 wrote:

NYCelt wrote:Okafor would be a great addition, allowing Horford to move to the 4 (agree with leftfoot; he's better suited there anyway) and in time hopefully creating a great frontline with Brown.  For a guy that played hurt and then missed a good part of his rookie year, Okafor looked just fine.  Problem is, I still don't believe the 6ers have any real interest in trading him.  Not until they can get a look at Embiid over an extended period in the regular season, at least.  You have to give value to get value, so that Nets pick would probably be in play along with Smart or Bradley.  I could see dealing one of those two guards, but would hate to part with that pick; next year it could easily lead to a center or shooter.

Next year's draft is expected to be very strong.  I want to keep the pick unless an extraordinary deal happens (Cousins).  Wouldn't give it up for Okafor.

If that pick turns into Harry Giles, or my hometown guy, Thomas Bryant, I'd like to keep it too. Big men with rebounding and defense.