Post Game Thread - vs Detroit Pistons, Away

[bobheckler]

http://www.espn.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4724474/marcus-smarts-hustle-makes-al-horford-the-hero



Marcus Smart's hustle makes Al Horford the hero
play





1:24 AM PT


Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer




Let's not bury the lead: Boston Celtics big man Al Horford, playing his first game Saturday since suffering a concussion in practice on Halloween, was simply spectacular against the Detroit Pistons.

Horford scored 18 points on 7-of-12 shooting with 11 rebounds, five assists, three blocks and two steals. In a two-point game, he was an impossible plus-17 in plus/minus over 33 minutes, 45 seconds of floor time. Not only did Horford produce the game-winning putback with 1.3 seconds remaining, but he also blocked Aron Baynes' shot at the buzzer to seal a 94-92 triumph over the Pistons at The Palace of Auburn Hills.


Al Horford's putback is about to give the Celtics a last-second lead, but Marcus Smart -- whose hustle made the play possible -- is in no position to see the heroics unfold. AP Photo/Paul Sancya
But none of Horford's heroics would have been possible without Marcus Smart risking life and limb to simply keep the ball alive on Boston's final possession. It was Smart who charged full throttle from the 3-point line and leaped into a wall of four white jerseys, tipping the ball just enough to allow Horford to quickly flick it back up and break the game's final tie.

On his fearless charge, Smart leaped between Ish Smith and Tobias Harris. Caught beneath the rim, Smart tried his best to force up his own putback but didn't have a good angle. He went crashing to the floor as Smith leaned forward from Smart's impact. Smart was able to brace his fall slightly with his arms, but the side of his head appeared to hit the floor. Smart needed a moment to collect himself after the play (and Smith immediately checked on him after seeing the hard crash).

After a timeout, Smart stayed on the floor for Detroit's final possession and chased Pistons leading scorer Marcus Morris before the last shot went to Baynes.

"The credit is to Marcus. I mean, that's championship plays that he made, winning plays that he made right there," Horford told reporters in Detroit. "So he just literally crashed the glass hard -- the ball just fell, and I just put it back in."

This was the quintessential Marcus Smart play on the quintessential Marcus Smart night. Smart put up only two points on 1-of-9 shooting and missed all five 3-pointers that he took. But in 31 minutes of floor time, he tallied seven rebounds, three assists, two blocks and no turnovers.

Without Smart's hustle, the Pistons likely corral Jae Crowder's missed 3-point attempt and call timeout with a few seconds to play in a tie game. Instead, Horford produced a bucket that not only capped a brilliant performance but gave Boston a much-needed jolt of positivity after Friday's loss to the Golden State Warriors.

"It was Marcus Smart's effort," Celtics coach Brad Stevens told reporters of the winning putback. "That was effort."

Smart, who missed the start of the season after spraining his left ankle in Boston's final preseason game, had tweaked that same injury in Friday's game. Smart bruised the ankle in the third quarter and was ruled out for the rest of the night. Stevens said the team would reevaluate Smart before Saturday's game, and Smart was able to shuffle to a reserve role, with Horford and Crowder back in the starting lineup.

Smart's impact is typically reflected in Boston's on/off-court splits, but through 10 appearances, Smart actually has been a net negative for the Celtics. Boston's net rating is minus-1.4 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor, and it jumps to plus-3.1 when he's on the bench. On Saturday night, however, Smart's net rating was a plus-5.7.

For the season, Smart is averaging 10.6 points, 4.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists and 1.4 steals per game. Some look at Smart and see a 2014 No. 6 pick who is an inconsistent offensive player in a reserve role. But Celtics fans know Smart's value can't fully be quantified by his basic stat line. Smart has embraced difficult defensive challenges lately, often giving up size to opposing small forwards while starting in Crowder's place.

It's the hustle plays that really tend to distinguish Smart, as he proved on Saturday.

But back to Horford, who hardly looked like a guy who had been sidelined for three weeks while navigating the league's return-to-activity and concussion protocols.


"I felt good. I felt really good," Horford told reporters. "Very frustrating these past few weeks, dealing with a lot of different things. Finally, I'm at the point that I felt good enough today that I was ready to play."

Horford credited strength coach Bryan Doo for keeping his wind up while the concussion kept him away from basketball activities. Horford admitted to being gassed after the first five minutes, but he hardly showed any other rust from the extended time off. Watching the Celtics struggle while posting a 4-5 record in the nine games he missed, Horford has a greater appreciation for being back on the floor.

"Being on the side like this, seeing the team have its ups and downs, it really just makes you lock in as a player," Horford told reporters. "It makes you appreciate, I guess, a lot more the process and playing and building something. Because we're building something here."



____________________________________________________________________________________________________


http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/11/boston_celtics_analysis_al_hor.html#incart_river_index




Boston Celtics analysis: Al Horford does it all in return, Brad Stevens unveils most interesting lineup




Boston Celtics center Al Horford (42) dunks against the Detroit Pistons during the second half of an NBA basketball game in Auburn Hills, Mich., Saturday, Nov. 19, 2016. Boston won 94-92. (AP Photo/Paul Sancya)
Jay King | mjking@masslive.com By Jay King | mjking@masslive.com


on November 20, 2016 at 6:00 AM, updated November 20, 2016 at 10:03 AM



You know someone, surely, who packs everything he owns for a weekend trip, piling clothes on top of clothes until the bag nearly bursts. Horford squeezed in a simple assist first, because he couldn't leave that behind, then added a perfect box-out moments later. Before forgetting, he went to grab a pick-and-pop 3-pointer from his closet, then folded as many blocks and steals as the Boston Celtics needed to shove beside it. After making room for a double-double, he remembered at the last moment he could use a putback, game-winning layup, and, oh yeah, he almost forgot a game-saving block.

By the time Horford finished packing the bag with 18 points, 11 rebounds, five assists, three steals, two blocks, a last-second bucket to earn a 94-92 win, and an at-the-buzzer rejection to end it, he must have known he couldn't possibly fit much of anything else. Anybody who forgot how much value the four-time All-Star adds to the Celtics needed only to watch everything he jammed into his first game back from a concussion.

After nine games off, Horford handled the ball on fast breaks, grappled with Andre Drummond down low, knocked down seven of his 12 field goal attempts, hit two of three 3-point tries, finished with a +17 over 34 minutes, and almost swallowed Aron Baynes when the Detroit Pistons big man tried to tie the game at the buzzer. The Celtics failed to play a complete game -- the third quarter reeked -- but it all felt OK because Marcus Smart hustles like a maniac and everybody's healthy again. After a dozen games of mixing and matching through injuries, Boston can finally build on the rotation head coach Brad Stevens expected.

How does Isaiah Thomas (who recorded 24 points, eight assists and no turnovers) feel about that development?

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Isaiah Thomas ✔ @Isaiah_Thomas
Got everybody back. Now let's get this thing rolling! #CsUP
7:37 PM - 19 Nov 2016
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IT and D

With a full roster for the first time this season, the Celtics unveiled what might be their most interesting lineup: the IT and D unit, featuring Thomas, Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder and Horford.

That's a tiny, relentless group -- and it gave Detroit fits during important moments. According to NBA.com, that unit combined to shoot 7 for 11 over seven minutes of action, and even rebounded three of its four misses. Among Celtics lineups, only the starting five received more playing time. Despite some defensive lapses, the IT and D lineup outscored the Pistons 18-14 -- the group essentially closed both halves, suggesting head coach Brad Stevens wanted to save it for critical times.

A team can't stay that small forever, but the Celtics know they put opponents in dangerous situations by spreading the court so wide around Thomas. Check out this possession down the stretch:



via GIPHY

With Bradley spotted up in the corner and skilled players everywhere else on the Celtics perimeter, Thomas dribbles around a high ball screen to find all the space he needs. Horford's pick forces Ish Smith to trail the play, essentially leaving Thomas in a 1-on-1 situation with Drummond. Though the former UConn center can slide his feet, this is a mismatch all the way through. A slight hesitation move from Thomas pauses Drummond for just a beat, freeing an open path to the hoop.

How much does Horford help Boston's small lineups? Here's what happens when Stevens decides to drag Detroit's big man away from the basket:



via GIPHY

As Crowder takes on pick-and-roll duties, Horford locates himself in the corner, occupying Baynes. Thomas spins Smith around with a crispy crossover and finds Detroit has nobody but wings to defend the rim. The resulting floater is elementary.

With so many driving lanes, the IT and D unit should have no issues scoring consistently, but will need to be sharp defensively. Despite all the speed and grit with Thomas, Bradley, Smart and Crowder all on the court, lineups with that quartet surrendered an ugly 110.8 points per 100 possessions over limited time last season, according to NBA.com. Even with Horford changing the dynamic for that group at both ends, defense is a valid concern. The IT and D group could be so much fun, though, as we saw against Detroit.


Stevens' decision keeps Drummond on the bench

After the Pistons tied the game at 92-all with 23.2 seconds left, Stevens decided against calling timeout. The decision kept Drummond, one of the NBA's best rebounders, on the bench -- and paid off when Smart crashed the glass to create a second-chance game-winner for Horford.

According to the Detroit Free Press' Vince Ellis, Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy said he took out Drummond with 30 seconds left because Baynes is "really good" at the play the team ran to tie the score. But in a nifty play call from Van Gundy, all Baynes did was set a pick and roll to the hoop while Smith found Tobias Harris for a 3-pointer.

"As it turned out, quite honestly, I'm not sure Aron's part didn't really have a lot to do with it," Van Gundy said. "I'm kicking myself right now. If he'd been in the game, we probably get the rebound and we probably are still playing (in overtime) instead of talking to you (the media). Not that I don't enjoy talking to you guys, but that could have waited another 45 minutes."




bob



.

[dboss]

The Celtics are a totally different team with Crowder and Horford in the lineup.  However this group has played too few games together so it is going to take some time before they reach a level of proficiency.

I think a lot of fans may disagree with this but I think IT shoots too much.  Now that Horford and Crowder have returned we should see a more diverse offense.  The Celtics ran a fair number of Pick and rolls with Horford but the quality of passing was sub-par.  They will need to work on that to take advantage of Horford's abilities.

There was Marcus Smart again making huge plays.  He shot like crap but there he is again making the type of plays that win ball games.  

KO looks horrible and out-of-place.  In very limited action he went 2/3 from the field but overall his shooting has been a big disappointment.   He has only played 7 games so that is a very small sample size and he has not found a rhythm.  However his ceiling looks a lot closer now.  This year we will find out if he is a core player in the rotation because it is quite obvious that he does not have the talent to be an NBA starter.

Jerebko, Zeller and Amir Johnson are also very inconsistent.  None of them are quality starters and none of them can be expected to perform well.  Basically we got one good big in Horford and the rest of the group are Bums!

We do not need just one upgrade to our frontline, we need Multiple upgrades.

The Celtics are a guard dominant team and will continue to win their share of games but size and athleticism particularly at the 4/5 spots is deficient.

I do like the development of Rozier and Brown.  

The GS games was poorly coached.  For a team with above average on the ball defenders I would have liked to see a full court man to man press implemented when the lead grew over double digits.   Do the Celtics ever use that type of aggressive defense?  No.

GS is a rhythm team so if you take some time off the shot clock it will disrupt their ability to score.

The win last night was a good hard fought win.  Detroit had not lost a game at home all year and Boston won on the rd in the 2nd game of back to backs.

dboss

[bobheckler]

A win is a win is a win, but shooting 40% won't get you many of them, not in a league that is trending towards offense.  In the 3rd quarter we looked like old men, shooting 7-22 in the quarter.  There was no movement.  IT was doing an uncomfortably reminiscent Rajon Rondo imitation by walking the ball up every possession.  Detroit, on the other hand, ran at every opportunity.  IT's man, Ish Smith, ran it down his throat all night.  

Which leads me to a rant about our offensive sets.  I don't like them.  We are taking a ton of long jump shots and 3s and we are not a good jump shooting team.  All we do is pass around the perimeter, do dribble-handoffs at the perimeter, but we don't have any cutters.  Nothing is towards the rim.  Nobody sets back picks for their teammates to break them free.  We have a slasher in Jaylen Brown.  Are we setting back picks he can rub his man off on, or staggered screens he can can curl around and get a pass after he takes the turn?  No.  We are counting on the defenders taking their eyes off of Bradley etal for us to get our back cuts and that is not pro-active.  Brad is very good at identifying players' strengths and putting them into positions to win, allegedly, but he is telling a bunch of non-jump shooters to be a jump shooting team.  I know that Horford and Crowder were out, but so what?  Amir and Zeller and Kelly are all good pnr players, especially Amir and Zeller.  In fact, pnr are their fortes because their outside games are weak and pnrs will take them into the paint where they want to be, and yet we didn't play that game.  How many pnrs did you see Amir do in the 9 games Horford was out?  I'm starting to think our offensive problems are stemming from playing a game we don't have the horses to play, and that's the coaching staffs' fault.  

Marcus Smart's suicide dive for the rebound with time running out may have saved the game by giving Horford a chance but he also shot 1-9 on the game and 0-5 from 3.  In other words, if he wasn't the #1 worst offensive player in the league we wouldn't have needed his heroics at the end.  If he had shot even a poor 3-9 (still a very shitty 30%) we would have won this going away.  Brad is always fond of pointing out it's the little things throughout the game that make the difference and not just crunch time.  Well, Smart is inept on offense.  Why he shoots at all, I have no idea.  He should be a Worm, and do his specialties (hustle, defense, rebounding, flopping) and leave the offense to someone else.  Anyone else.

IT with another inefficient night.  Why are we shooting in the low 40's, or worse!?  One reason is because IT shoots 7-22 like last night.  He's averaging 43.5% on the season, 32.5% from 3.  Is that a good shooter?  N.O.  Does he do other things, like penetrate, that we need done?  Absolutely, but if you are counting on a 43% shooter to win games for you, you have a problem.  In fairness to IT, he did have 8 assists and zero turnovers, and that was critical.  We only had 8 TOs all game, and that's great, but Detroit only had 5.  

Jonas Jerebko coming alive.  His season-to-date has stunk but his last two games, against GSW and Detroit, have been quite good.  Great energy and hustle.  He wanted to remind the Master of Disaster what a mistake it was trading him and Gigi for Tayshaun Prince.  It was.

Brown, Zeller, Kelly.  All big zeros.  Brown gets some slack, he's a rookie even if he is the #3 pick and yet has only averaged 13 mpg in his last 5 games because he's blowing defensive assignments but the other two have no excuses.  Kelly had a few good games as a starter but if he can only play like that as a starter then he needs to up his game and earn that spot and he hasn't done it the last couple of games.  The best thing about Kelly's game last night is that Jon Leuer and Aron Baynes, Detroit's back up PF/C and Kelly's men for much of the game, had even worse games than him.  How bad?  They were a combined 0-11 for 0 points, while Kelly was at least 2-3 for 5 points.  Nevertheless, I'm not interested in a race to the bottom, even if they are tag team power diving more effectively than him.  Amir isn't impressing me neither.  For a guy whose fortes are pnr offense and defense he hasn't been very good at either recently.

Morris was hot and Brown kept losing him.  Even Jae gave up a crunch-time corner 3 to him.  Which part of "hot" don't they get?

Jae is rusty.  Aside from 3-9, he was dribbling the ball up court, all alone, and just lost it.  

I LOVE Terry Rozier's rebounding.  LOVE.  He is just getting his first real minutes this year and he has a lot to learn about running an offense and all but damn that 6'2" kid can board!  Avery was putting up the big numbers with Horford and Crowder out but inch-for-inch, minute-for-minute, pound-for-pound Terry Rozier is a phenomenal rebounder.  If you don't have a monster like Andre Drummond then use your bigs to box out and let your wings like Rozier go get the ball.

Speaking of Andre Drummond, has anybody seen him and DeAndre Jordan together at the same time?  Maybe they're the same person and are just moonlighting with multiple teams.  Their games are identical.  Great rebounders, great shot blockers/intimidators, piss-poor frito shooters and not much more capable on offense outside of 4'.  Alley-oops R Us.  If you play good perimeter defense, to prevent the penetration/defensive switch and lob off the pnr, and put a body on him underneath it should be possible to neutralize him, since he cannot create anything for themselves on offense.  That is harder to do with Jordan, because CP3 is just too damn good to keep out all game, but Ish Smith?  Should have been easy.

Saved Horford for last.  Wow.  I forgot why he was the 2nd more sought after free agent last summer, because I hadn't seen him all year (I missed the first few games).  Amazing versatility.  A lot of credit is going to Smart for getting a finger on that rebound with time running out but it was Horford who gently, AND ACCURATELY, put the board back in with just 1.3 seconds left.  He didn't panic and overshoot it, he just put it in.  Very cool cucumber.  Then there was his Wilson burger on Baynes to seal it.  7-12 for 18 points, 11 boards, 5 assists and only 1 TO and 3 blocks.  The entire Detroit team, including excellent shot blocker Andre Drummond, only had 4 blocks.  In fact, 2 of their blocks were by Reggie Bullock on Mighty Midget.  Another great thing about Horford's game was its versatility.  He hit two 3s, two from mid-range and two layups.  So, no matter where he was, you couldn't leave him.  That changes defensive strategies, A LOT, which often depend upon making the decision to back off someone in order to pack the paint, or double-team a star or whatever.  You cannot leave Al Horford and that makes the game easier for everybody.  And did you see him dribbling full court?

Yeah, I know I'm kinda grumpy, and that's weird because we won, but our truly pathetic offense is bothering me.


Box Score:

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400899638











bob


.

[cowens/oldschool]

Kelly sucks, Smart and Brown at least have attributes of a real player that can play and with work improve.....I don't see that with Kelly and Zeller. Smart will have bad shooting games, but he'll also have better ones, either way he is an asset IMHO. He makes much more impactful defensive and intangible plays than most players, that is a skill/talent that you need on teams. Superstars need those type of players around them to win. Cowens needed Silas, Kobe needed Artest to get past us. Take Smart off this team, our defense and rebounding suffer.

[bobheckler]

Kelly sucks, Smart and Brown at least have attributes of a real player that can play and with work improve.....I don't see that with Kelly and Zeller. Smart will have bad shooting games, but he'll also have better ones, either way he is an asset IMHO. He makes much more impactful defensive and intangible plays than most players, that is a skill/talent that you need on teams. Superstars need those type of players around them to win. Cowens needed Silas, Kobe needed Artest to get past us. Take Smart off this team, our defense and rebounding suffer.

Cow,

As long as he doesn't shoot.  He is shooting 37.6% for the season so far, 30.8% from 3 and is shooting, get this, 47.1% from the line.  That is NOT a typo.  He can rebound, he can defend, he can flop, I don't care.  Just don't shoot.

He also rebounds 4.3 rebounds/game in 32 mpg.  Not THAT impressive.

TAFKARA (The Asshole Formerly Known As Ron Artest) and Paul Silas were starters, so saying that our superstars (let's just say that's IT and Horford) needs players like that around hiim like those other two examples doesn't make sense.  Smart lost his starting game, and it wasn't because of his defense or his rebounding.  He lost it because he is a one-man parade of empty possessions on offense.  Kelly lost his starting job because his defense isn't as good as Amir or Sully's.  Smart lost his starting job for the same deficiency, just on the other side of the ball (yes, Cowens, the game requires both defense and offense).  Furthermore, TAFKARA was 6x All-League and DPOY.  So he wasn't just a good defender, he was elite and, in one year, the best in the league.  As far as Paul Silas goes, he was 5x All-Defense.  He averaged 47% fg% his first year with Boston, 44% his 2nd year with Boston, 41.7% his 3rd year and 42.6% his 4th.  After his 4th year, the one where he only shot 42.6%, Red traded Paul Silas in a 3 team deal that got us Curtis Rowe.  Curtis.  Freaking.  Rowe.  That's what Paul Silas was worth at that point.  You are trying to compare Marcus Smart to a DPOY and a 5x All-Defensive player whose fg% Marcus Smart would kill for, and Paul Silas was NOT a good shooter, but his shooting degraded to where it was so bad Red Auerbach traded him for the the NBA equivalent of a box of Krispy Kremes.  And Smart would still kill for Silas' numbers, that's how bad Smart's are.  And, just to add a finishing touch, Silas' rebounding, both total and /36mpg, were still up near career highs, so he didn't get traded because of that, and his rebounding numbers are Hell-and-Gone better than Smart's.  

And Smart was the #6 pick.  #6 picks are expected to become starters, and fairly quickly.  #13 picks, like Kelly, are not.

Just don't shoot, Marcus, just don't shoot.  Watch some Rodman film so you can see how that works.


bob


.

[cowens/oldschool]

bob Silas got traded because of money, NOTHING else and was still a big contibutor on those Sonic teams.

you might have a point based on Smarts history on shooting, I still think it can get better.

Kelly is just a fockin pussy all the time 24/7, I hate watching his rag doll deficiencies on the floor....where they were drafted means nothing to me. I still see Smart contribute in alot of ways, Kelly emboldens teams to go right at him.

[112288]

I know that Silas was traded for money problems with the Celtics due to ownership not wanting to pay him.  That was stated in Tommy Heinsohn's book and it hurt Tommy as as a coach.

KO experiment should be just about over..............let's start rapping the package to send him somewhere!


112288

[dboss]

Speaking of Paul Silas, the Celtics became a contender when they added him.

dboss

[swish]

Speaking of Paul Silas, the Celtics became a contender when they added him.

dboss

I believe that they were a contender the year before Silas came to Boston

swish

[cowens/oldschool]

yeah but they had nobody to match up/bang with Debusshere, Kuberski and Nelson just couldn't do it, to get to that next championship level we needed Paul Maul Silas, one of my favorite players.

[bobheckler]

I think Kelly's time in Boston is drawing to a close because:

1.  this is his last contract year and both sides agreed to no extension,

2.  he isn't a game changer and

3.  Danny is big-game hunting for a game changer.  

Danny isn't going to spend the money to keep a 7'er, even if they can shoot 40% from 3, if that will suck up salary cap he wants for a monster.  At worst, I think Kelly might be on our roster through this year and will be a sign-and-trade during the summer.


bob


.

[worcester]

IT shot 25% from 3 point land, Marcus -% with five attempts from beyond the arc. Otherwise we're shooting the 3 ball well. Jonas and Jalen especially. Terry too. Progress. Kelly's +/- stands out. He used to be solidly plus. Guess he matches up poorly against Detroit.

[worcester]

Weak spots in our top ten lineup - Kelly, Amir, and Zeller...all our tallest guys (except for Horford). We need help at the 5.

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