Who was saying last week that the Celtics are better off without IT?

mrkleen09 wrote:

He is just "trade bait".

Thomas is not likely to score 44 every night, but he is the main cog in our team's offense since he is the only real "scorer" on the team.

He will not be needed only when the Cs have found two guys who can do what he can do on offense.

Let's forget the stats and if a player is or isn't a great defender for a moment.

This is the most important player on the team at this time.  All due respect to Horford and Bradley, but it's Thomas.

What amazes me most is what he can do given his size.  I've posted pictures from this past summer when my son attended his camp.  IT is my size, I've seen this fact personally.  I mean, look, I have a hard time finding jeans that aren't too long; this is a small guy we're talking about.  Yet night in and night out he puts up the points we need. His passing is under-rated and he's a decent playmaker as well.  We can afford to keep a player who can be a defensive liability if we can get the offense IT brings as a tradeoff.  So you keep a Marcus Smart around to compensate and play them in a situational system.  You want some high picks in the draft?  No IT and our own picks get higher fast!

wideclyde wrote:Thomas is not likely to score 44 every night, but he is the main cog in our team's offense since he is the only real "scorer" on the team.

He will not be needed only when the Cs have found two guys who can do what he can do on offense.

I counted 17-18 guards, guys at both positions, who could do what Thomas does. These range from the league's #1 scorer (Westbrook) to #43 (Chris Paul). 

That means just over half the the teams in the league have a guard who can similarly provide what Thomas does for the C's if thrust into his role here. 
If the C's were to find TWO guys to do what he does, one would almost certainly have to be a guard, moving Thomas to a bench/6th man role his detractors think is best for a guy who is 5'9". 

That is a pretty tall task as far as team building I would say? Let's just be happy with what we have. An all-star PG on a top 3 team in the east. Danny will find out how IT fits into the puzzle of turning a good to very good team (one in that 5-10 range in the league overall) into the top 5 title contending team we all hope to see next season or at the latest by 2018-19.

I was saying we could do better than IT. So the guy has a good game, scores the most points he ever has. He is a true phenom, always amazed what a guy my height can do in the NBA. But he is a hero baller and he will never lead any team to a championship. The C's went on a great run last year to make the playoffs. They were eliminated in the first round because the Hawks targeted IT. nufced

17goingon18

Yeah, nuff said.

You add a legit big man who can rebound and defend the paint (Noel) and a good shooter at SF to spell Crowder - and the Celtics are right in the conversation, with IT leading the way.

Noel can rebound? he has durability issues

Zizic might be our mobile glass eating defender....

cowens/oldschool wrote:Noel can rebound? he has durability issues

Looks like it to me - Average 11 and 8 in limited minutes last season..and he is 22 years old. As long as you dont give up much, so very little downside to trying that experiment.

For me, the question isn't are the Celtics better off with or without IT. That's easy; they're better off with all their starters healthy. But a related question is should the Celtics build around a short, brave, spark-plug PG who will never be happy in a 6th-man (Vinny Johnson) role? I don't think so and I don't think his trade value will ever be higher than now. Hawk

So, at what point do you stop taking two steps back to take a step forward?

The Celtics without IT are likely out of the playoffs - which makes them another middle of the pack team with nothing to offer free agents. You need a nucleus of winners and a team on the rise, not a team full of potential and nothing to show for it like the Sixers or Jazz.

Totally reject the idea that you cant build around IT.

MrKleen,

I would say that the rebuild falls flat on its face if Thomas is not around for at least two more years. I am basing my thoughts almost purely on what you mentioned about slipping back to the middle of the pack without him.

However, beyond two years Thomas will not have the same place atop the Cs roster and a different leading man will be a necessity.

In other words, he may get us to near or into the finals in one of the next couple of seasons, but will not be the guy to build the franchise around after the 2018 (maybe 2019) season. We will have had time to further improve the talent level on our team and will ride with the new talent, Horford, Rozier and Brown at that point with guys like Crowder and Smart filling various (and important) leadership rolls.

Some of you guys are never satisfied.

We have been waiting for a star since the aging Big 3 were dismantled and now we have one, and all you do is poke holes in his game or talk about 2019? Seriously.

I will leave this aside, as I just watched the Cs lead by the undersized, spark plug, who will never be core player to build around - lead his team AGAIN to a win, 3-0 on the road on this trip.

I have already admitted that I was wrong - we do need IT now.

But I still remember how his game was completely dismantled in the playoffs. If he can overcome that this year then I will be convinced that he can lead this team to another banner.

Another thing, before he was injured he was often walking the ball up the court a la Rondo, taking valuable time off the clock which resulted in a lot of desperation shots. Since his return however he has been pushing the ball up the court and we have been winning. I just hope he keeps that up.

Berlin-T

Mea Culpa. I criticized IT earlier as well. Keep up the great work Little Big Man.

Here are a couple fact-ish opinions:

1. During the playoffs, Bradley and Kelly were out, leaving Isaiah without a couple of our better shooters that he could pass off to.  We had Turner, but he has no shot outside of mid-range.  Sully, Crowder, Jonas, Smart, etc, were not reliable enough to help carry the load.  The opposing defense could (and did) focus on Isaiah, much to our chagrin.  I would like to see what Isaiah can do in the playoffs with a healthy team before I put too much weight on last year's results.

2. Before he actually went out this season with the groin pull, he tried to play through it.  I do not know exactly how long he played with 1 1/2 legs under him, but I am sure it was at least a week, maybe more, before he was shut down.  Now that he is healthier (maybe still not 100%) the results seem to be much better, with Isaiah running with the ball more.

gyso

Through last night, Thomas has led Boston in scoring 22 times this season. ... Bradley has scored 10 or more points in each of Boston's 29 games this season.

Just an added fact or two.