Post Game Thread - vs Toronto Raptors, Away

[bobheckler]

Lost a 17 point lead.

I don't know why Danny is feeling so good about standing pat when Ibaka and Tucker killed us.

Horford never showed up in Toronto.

Smart and Brown, to a lesser amount, had really good games.

No answer for DeRozan.

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400900264


bob


.

[dboss]

Our entire 4/5 rotation played poor.

I have been preaching for some time now that we need to upgrade our frontline.

Nothing to be done now probably. We will take our licks.

dboss

[swish]

Our future draft picks were not much help to night. Maybe they will do better next game.

swish

[dboss]

Swish

Truth be told, AH has been a big disappointment and the rest of our bigs were invisible tonight.

The off season should be interesting.

dboss

[kdp59]

I was surprised at how much bigger Ibaka was  compared to Horford when they were on each other. I like Horford , I do...but it was a bad signing by Danny.  MAX money for an  aging undersized  Center, who is NOT an "A Type" personality. We get to live with it for three more years.

one game does not make a season, but you certainly can't be faulted for feeling that this Celtic team may have already peaked.


Toronto and Washington BOTH improved themselves by trades and will likely pass us in the standings by the playoffs. The playoffs, where a one man offense  get taken away (like last night) and rebounding  and defense are at premiums.

and by the way, where exactly is Bradley.....did he get in the witness protection  program? Foolish to rely on a guy if he's going to miss 25% of your games each year, sorry.

I expect more games like this the rest of the year, as teams shut down IT and we have no one who can step up and create their own shot.

Like Swish said, maybe one of those draft picks Danny is holding will step up this year..or next year or maybe the year after...when Horford is slower ( and getting Max still) Bradley is injured again or gone as a FA and IT is getting swallowed up by double teams while getting max money ( and losing a step like all little guys do). No money for top end FA's, so forget that folks.

I fear Danny and many of us fans have over rated MANY of the players on this roster. Most are average NBA players at best.

My hope now is that Danny keeps all the draft picks and gets lucky with each one and we have a real contender in the year 2022. Because that's about how long it will take, the way we stand now.

as someone sung a long time ago....you have to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em.

[worcester]

Look people. Danny is not signing IT to a max contract. Won't happen. Isaiah's +/- simple scores are not that good. He was -19 last night. Overall he's scoring about a +3. Steph Curry scores around +20. Lebron +18 in the years his teams won the 3 championships, +15 when his teams lost. In the playoffs where fouls are called much less frequently and front courts are bigger and stronger and opposing guards are quicker and better scorers, Isaiah's offense will somewhat disappear and his lack of D will be glaring. Danny sees and understands all this. Danny will draft a great guard who will play point for us along with Marcus and Rozier. Jalen will share time at the 2 with Bradley (if he stays at a non-max price) and the 3 with Jae. Isaiah will either come of the bench at a non-max contract or he will be traded next year. Zizic will play strong for us as will Yabu. We may pick up another strong 4 or 5 via free agency. That's the future. Toronto helped clarify this last night.

[swish]

Look people. Danny is not signing IT to a max contract. Won't happen. Isaiah's +/- simple scores are not that good. He was -19 last night. Overall he's scoring about a +3. Steph Curry scores around +20. Lebron +18 in the years his teams won the 3 championships, +15 when his teams lost. In the playoffs where fouls are called much less frequently and front courts are bigger and stronger and opposing guards are quicker and better scorers, Isaiah's offense will somewhat disappear and his lack of D will be glaring. Danny sees and understands all this. Danny will draft a great guard who will play point for us along with Marcus and Rozier. Jalen will share time at the 2 with Bradley (if he stays at a non-max price) and the 3 with Jae. Isaiah will either come of the bench at a non-max contract or he will be traded next year. Zizic will play strong for us as will Yabu. We may pick up another strong 4 or 5 via free agency. That's the future. Toronto helped clarify this last night.

Plus/minus is one of the most useless stats in basketball.

swish

[sinus007]

Hi,
Very disappointing loss. A simple explanation would be Raptors wanted this game more than Celtics.
Also, when IT4 has a night off there's no one else to pick up the scoring slack.
I hope the the sting from this loss will spur the Celtics in the next 2 games.

AK

[Shamrock1000]

Everytime the Celtics lose more than one game in a row, people think the sky is falling. This team will be fine. No one thinks they are beating GS, Cleveland, or SA, and I don't see any trade that would have got them there. Personally, I am not interested in giving up a top 4 pick in a deep draft along with two core players for a chance to beat Toronto or Washington. Not even sure they would have beaten those teams after losing valuable core players.

[wideclyde]

Yes, only one game, but Ibaka and Tucker killed us last night. They combined for 17 rebounds where the Cs only rounded up 36 rebounds. These two guys brought the tough killer mindset to the Raptors last night when either one or both could possibly done the same for the Cs at prices far less than either of the Nets picks.

I still very much like the idea of keeping the Nets picks, but also still do not like doing nothing to help this year's team.

[dboss]

What is the Raptor's record against Boston over the last three years?

We simply do not match up against them.  Now they have upgraded their roster and put more distance between us and them.

Danny is not concerned about this year.  The plan is a long term plan.

I thought we could have traded for Serge but DA knows that Serge is on the downward slope and resigning him over the summer would be problematic.

The Celtics could still hold on the the 2nd seed even though Toronto has upgraded.  

dboss

[cowens/oldschool]

What is the Raptor's record against Boston over the last three years?

We simply do not match up against them.  Now they have upgraded their roster and put more distance between us and them.

Danny is not concerned about this year.  The plan is a long term plan.

I thought we could have traded for Serge but DA knows that Serge is on the downward slope and resigning him over the summer would be problematic.

The Celtics could still hold on the the 2nd seed even though Toronto has upgraded.  

dboss

good point, at one time I was open to getting Ibaka for this years stretch run, but we have one 30 something center on a downward spiral, we don't need another to tie us up on a max or near max contract. I'm content bringing in Zizic and Yabu next year and getting one of the top bigs in 18 thru the draft.

[dboss]

What is the Raptor's record against Boston over the last three years?

We simply do not match up against them.  Now they have upgraded their roster and put more distance between us and them.

Danny is not concerned about this year.  The plan is a long term plan.

I thought we could have traded for Serge but DA knows that Serge is on the downward slope and resigning him over the summer would be problematic.

The Celtics could still hold on the the 2nd seed even though Toronto has upgraded.  

dboss

good point, at one time I was open to getting Ibaka for this years stretch run, but we have one 30 something center on a downward spiral, we don't need another to tie us up on a max or near max contract. I'm content bringing in Zizic and Yabu next year and getting one of the top bigs in 18 thru the draft.

Cow

It certainly appears Danny is planning to do just that. Having 2 first round picks waiting in line is a unique situation.  It is a historical first.  If the Celtics are blessed and end up with the #1 pick and decide to draft Fultz it will impact everything else.  Boston would have to trade either IT or Bradley because both will be free agents after next year.  Their trade value will be highest at the end of the season.  DA will probably have to wait until July when extension options can be explored.

It would be more cost effective to draft Fultz and then move IT or Bradley.  I think IT is more likely to be moved because he is a PG.

A trade could be one that targets a PF or a center.  Amir is most likely gone unless he takes a 50% pay cut and Jonas is probably gone along with Zeller.

Mickey and Young could be cut are serve as trade fillers.

The two stashes come over and we probably keep KO.

In Feb 2018 our draft picks come back into play.

dboss

[swish]

Fans love the excitement and mystique and the unrealistic hopes for the future that the draft pretends to offer. But the pros see it differently. Over the last 17 years the championship teams have been led by elite players, that were acquired by trade or free agency in 12 of the 17 years. Only number 1 draft pick,Tim Duncan, was able to lead the spurs to 4 championship. And in 2014-15 the Warriors did not have that elite player and were able to defeat the Cavs who played without Love in the finals and Irving who missed the final 5 games. And now 4 teams are shooting for #13 - Cavs with James, Spurs with Aldridge, Warriors with Durant and Rockets with Hardin - all 4 obtained by trade or free agency.

swish

[dboss]

Fans love the excitement and mystique and the unrealistic hopes for the future that the draft pretends to offer. But the pros see it differently.  Over the last 17 years the championship teams have been led by elite players, that were acquired by trade or free agency in 12 of the 17 years. Only number 1 draft pick,Tim Duncan, was able to lead the spurs to 4 championship. And in 2014-15 the Warriors did not have that elite player and were able to defeat the Cavs who played without Love in the finals and Irving who missed the final 5 games. And now 4 teams are shooting for #13 - Cavs with James, Spurs with Aldridge, Warriors with Durant and Rockets with Hardin - all 4 obtained by trade or free agency.

swish  

 

Swish the #1 pick is gold.  Will that player  yield a franchise  level player?  No one can be certain.  But there is a level of excitement that cannot be denied.  I prefer not to dwell on any negatives associated with getting the #1 .



dboss

[cowens/oldschool]

Fans love the excitement and mystique and the unrealistic hopes for the future that the draft pretends to offer. But the pros see it differently.  Over the last 17 years the championship teams have been led by elite players, that were acquired by trade or free agency in 12 of the 17 years. Only number 1 draft pick,Tim Duncan, was able to lead the spurs to 4 championship. And in 2014-15 the Warriors did not have that elite player and were able to defeat the Cavs who played without Love in the finals and Irving who missed the final 5 games. And now 4 teams are shooting for #13 - Cavs with James, Spurs with Aldridge, Warriors with Durant and Rockets with Hardin - all 4 obtained by trade or free agency.

swish  

 

the Cavs best young franchise player they drafted Kyrie Irving, I think he hit a big shot once or twice. The Spurs best young player they drafted after trading for the pick Kawhi Leonard, the Warriors core were all draft picks, Curry, K Thompson and the idiot Draymond Green....ever hear of Russell, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Dave Cowens, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Paul Pierce? seems to me the draft has been very good for this franchise. Ever hear of Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen?

We can still maintain both lottery picks and STILL do a trade or FA signing if thats what it takes and it is out there.

[cowens/oldschool]

dboss have you seen Fultz play?

[swish]

Fans love the excitement and mystique and the unrealistic hopes for the future that the draft pretends to offer. But the pros see it differently.  Over the last 17 years the championship teams have been led by elite players, that were acquired by trade or free agency in 12 of the 17 years. Only number 1 draft pick,Tim Duncan, was able to lead the spurs to 4 championship. And in 2014-15 the Warriors did not have that elite player and were able to defeat the Cavs who played without Love in the finals and Irving who missed the final 5 games. And now 4 teams are shooting for #13 - Cavs with James, Spurs with Aldridge, Warriors with Durant and Rockets with Hardin - all 4 obtained by trade or free agency.

swish  

 

Swish the #1 pick is gold.  Will that player  yield a franchise  level player?  No one can be certain.  But there is a level of excitement that cannot be denied.  I prefer not to dwell on any negatives associated with getting the #1 .



dboss

dboss

I fully understand your feelings - there's a lot to be said about a positive view of things.

swish

[dboss]

dboss have you seen Fultz play?

Cow

I have watched a ton of videos on him.  He is a complete package.  I like his size and length.  He is an excellent ball handler and passer.  He can get to any spot on the floor.  He can catch and shoot when playing off the ball or he will pull up off the dribble for jumpers.  He has excellent range from behind the arc and will cross you over and go to the rack.  He gets off his feet quickly and is a solid rebounder.  I truly believe that he has franchise level talent.  

As I have stated before he is as good or even better than any PG that has come out in a long time.  

If the Celtics are blessed they will take him no questions asked.  Ball has been getting a lot of press as has several other excellent PG.  Fultz is in a class by himself.  There is Fultz and then everyone else.

dboss

[dboss]

Fans love the excitement and mystique and the unrealistic hopes for the future that the draft pretends to offer. But the pros see it differently.  Over the last 17 years the championship teams have been led by elite players, that were acquired by trade or free agency in 12 of the 17 years. Only number 1 draft pick,Tim Duncan, was able to lead the spurs to 4 championship. And in 2014-15 the Warriors did not have that elite player and were able to defeat the Cavs who played without Love in the finals and Irving who missed the final 5 games. And now 4 teams are shooting for #13 - Cavs with James, Spurs with Aldridge, Warriors with Durant and Rockets with Hardin - all 4 obtained by trade or free agency.

swish  

 

Swish the #1 pick is gold.  Will that player  yield a franchise  level player?  No one can be certain.  But there is a level of excitement that cannot be denied.  I prefer not to dwell on any negatives associated with getting the #1 .



dboss

 dboss

 I fully understand your feelings -  there's a lot to be said about a positive view of things.

  swish

Yes Swish. I believe that positive energy impacts results. A lot of stuff can go wrong. But I'm praying for a most perfect draft.

dboss

[worcester]

Swish, I was mistaken about Isaiah. His simple numbers from 82games.com - a better stat than +/- only, are damned good - 11th in the NBA right now, much better than Avery's whose numbers are still decent. http://www.82games.com/1617/1617BOS.HTM

http://82games.com/

I still don't think Danny will give IT a $30M contract, but he will probably stay, and it's Avery who stands the best chance of being traded, if there is one coming. Sure hope we get Fultz and face the dilemma of whom to keep.

Regarding drafting, ALL NBA champs going back 40+ years have acquired major components of their championship teams via the draft. All. This is especially true lately of GSW, and Danny seems to be taking us along that same route to #18 and beyond.

[bobheckler]

Swish,  I was mistaken about Isaiah. His simple numbers from 82games.com - a better stat than +/- only, are damned good - 11th in the NBA right now, much better than Avery's whose numbers are still decent. http://www.82games.com/1617/1617BOS.HTM

http://82games.com/

I still don't think Danny will give IT a $30M contract, but he will probably stay, and it's Avery who stands the best chance of being traded, if there is one coming. Sure hope we get Fultz and face the dilemma of whom to keep.

Regarding drafting, ALL NBA champs going back 40+ years have acquired major components of their championship teams via the draft. All. This is especially true lately of GSW, and Danny seems to be taking us along that same route to #18 and beyond.

To #18, and beyond!!!






bob


.

[cowens/oldschool]

dboss have you seen Fultz play?

Cow

I have watched a ton of videos on him.  He is a complete package.  I like his size and length.  He is an excellent ball handler and passer.  He can get to any spot on the floor.  He can catch and shoot when playing off the ball or he will pull up off the dribble for jumpers.  He has excellent range from behind the arc and will cross you over and go to the rack.  He gets off his feet quickly and is a solid rebounder.  I truly believe that he has franchise level talent.  

As I have stated before he is as good or even better than any PG that has come out in a long time.  

If the Celtics are blessed they will take him no questions asked.  Ball has been getting a lot of press as has several other excellent PG.  Fultz is in a class by himself.  There is Fultz and then everyone else.

dboss

I saw some draft sites comparing him to DeAngelo Russell who I think sucks, maybe he will improve, I don't think Russell is a good enough athlete even though he does have some skill.....hoping Fultz has alot more athleticism than Russell.

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