Cavs Getting Smoked By Spurs

swish wrote:

dboss wrote:

swish wrote:Still a very good chance, in my opinion, that Danny's high draft picks with all there projected future greatness, will still be used to acquire an ESTABLISHED elite player or two. That includes the already drafted Smart and Brown.

 swish

I think that is certainly a possibility although if you consider the trajectory of how far and how fast this team has come without having to part with key core players or picks it is just as likely that the Celtics will not trade Smart and or Brown for that so called Elite player.

When I look at a great team like SA, they have one legit superstar in Leonard yet there they are again at the top of the mountain.  The Spurs configuration proves that you do not have to have 2 and 3 elite players to win.  Some may argue that Aldridge is an Elite player but to me he is a younger version of AH without the passing skills.

You'll not convince me that the way to a championship is by trading for elite level talent.

I think the free agency route and keeping your high draft picks is the best way to go.  Also let me again mention that we really do not need upgrades at the 1, 2 or 3 spots,  I like where we are and all I can say is more of the same please.



     



dboss

  dboss

   You obviously have strong feelings in regards to your below statement - and I certainly respect your opinion, especially on a subject that can tend to be somewhat controversial.
 
        "You'll not convince me that the way to a championship is by trading for elite level talent."

     I have a different view - simply because of the below facts.
Over the last 9 years the championship team has won the league championship 6 times - after having traded for an elite level talent or 2.
      In 2007-08 the Celtics added Allen and Garnett
      In 2008-09 the Lakers added Paul Gasol
      In 2009-10 they won again
      in 2011-12 the  Heat added Bosh and James
      in 2012-13 they won again
      in 2015-16 the Cavs added Love

  If the opportunity arises for the Celts to land an established elite player in the next 2 or 3 years - I''l be surprised if Danny doesn't go all in to land him. He's done it before.

  swish
     

The thing that you are missing is that the Celtics can draft that Elite player.  All the Elite players were drafted by some team and the best opportunity you have to draft an elite player is to be in the lottery and preferably in the top half of the lottery.  

The argument can of course be made that young players take too long to develop but given the current EC standings it is quite clear that Boston can afford to build more talent through the draft.  Secondly why do we have to make a trade???   Free agency is the key and since the Celtics are moving into the elite category of NBA teams (Top 5) that will attract free agents.

The last rebuild is totally different than this one.  I can imaging that Danny would have followed the same plan but something happened.  This team got good and this team got good fast.  DA was able to add two quality starters in Crowder and Thomas without sacrificing their future.  Swish this is a different rebuild. We simply do not have to make a trade and leverage our assets to continue on the path of adding above average talent.  The odds of landing an elite player through the draft is significant given the Nets fleecing.  

I would bet that Danny is pretty comfortable with what he has done and with what he did not do.  

I just think it is relevant to accept the notion that there is more than one way to skin a cat and certainly more than one way to build a championship team.  Our last championship run was rather disappointing in comparison to other Championship Celtics teams and that is because we traded for players that were already on the downward arc of their careers.  We saw physical breakdowns from the big three and we only won One championship.    For Celtics standards, that was a below average run.

I want to see the Celtics continue to build a team characterized by youth, skill  and athleticism while maintaining a strong core of veterans that still have 5 plus years in the tank and when those players decline I want us to already have talent on the team that is even better than them  This would give us a sustainable run much like the Spurs.  

dboss

dboss wrote:

swish wrote:

dboss wrote:

swish wrote:Still a very good chance, in my opinion, that Danny's high draft picks with all there projected future greatness, will still be used to acquire an ESTABLISHED elite player or two. That includes the already drafted Smart and Brown.

 swish

I think that is certainly a possibility although if you consider the trajectory of how far and how fast this team has come without having to part with key core players or picks it is just as likely that the Celtics will not trade Smart and or Brown for that so called Elite player.

When I look at a great team like SA, they have one legit superstar in Leonard yet there they are again at the top of the mountain.  The Spurs configuration proves that you do not have to have 2 and 3 elite players to win.  Some may argue that Aldridge is an Elite player but to me he is a younger version of AH without the passing skills.

You'll not convince me that the way to a championship is by trading for elite level talent.

I think the free agency route and keeping your high draft picks is the best way to go.  Also let me again mention that we really do not need upgrades at the 1, 2 or 3 spots,  I like where we are and all I can say is more of the same please.



     



dboss

  dboss

   You obviously have strong feelings in regards to your below statement - and I certainly respect your opinion, especially on a subject that can tend to be somewhat controversial.
 
        "You'll not convince me that the way to a championship is by trading for elite level talent."

     I have a different view - simply because of the below facts.
Over the last 9 years the championship team has won the league championship 6 times - after having traded for an elite level talent or 2.
      In 2007-08 the Celtics added Allen and Garnett
      In 2008-09 the Lakers added Paul Gasol
      In 2009-10 they won again
      in 2011-12 the  Heat added Bosh and James
      in 2012-13 they won again
      in 2015-16 the Cavs added Love

  If the opportunity arises for the Celts to land an established elite player in the next 2 or 3 years - I''l be surprised if Danny doesn't go all in to land him. He's done it before.

  swish
     

The thing that you are missing is that the Celtics can draft that Elite player.  All the Elite players were drafted by some team and the best opportunity you have to draft an elite player is to be in the lottery and preferably in the top half of the lottery.  

The argument can of course be made that young players take too long to develop but given the current EC standings it is quite clear that Boston can afford to build more talent through the draft.  Secondly why do we have to make a trade???   Free agency is the key and since the Celtics are moving into the elite category of NBA teams (Top 5) that will attract free agents.

The last rebuild is totally different than this one.  I can imaging that Danny would have followed the same plan but something happened.  This team got good and this team got good fast.  DA was able to add two quality starters in Crowder and Thomas without sacrificing their future.  Swish this is a different rebuild. We simply do not have to make a trade and leverage our assets to continue on the path of adding above average talent.  The odds of landing an elite player through the draft is significant given the Nets fleecing.  

I would bet that Danny is pretty comfortable with what he has done and with what he did not do.  

I just think it is relevant to accept the notion that there is more than one way to skin a cat and certainly more than one way to build a championship team.  Our last championship run was rather disappointing in comparison to other Championship Celtics teams and that is because we traded for players that were already on the downward arc of their careers.  We saw physical breakdowns from the big three and we only won One championship.    For Celtics standards, that was a below average run.

I want to see the Celtics continue to build a team characterized by youth, skill  and athleticism while maintaining a strong core of veterans that still have 5 plus years in the tank and when those players decline I want us to already have talent on the team that is even better than them  This would give us a sustainable run much like the Spurs.  

dboss

Nice response - our opinions differ simply because you have faith in the draft - and I don't. Perhaps its my age or maybe I'm viewing the future threw the wrong end of my binoculars. To much risk for me to rely on the draft.

swish

Swish, One can add an elite player as a FA without making a significant trade.

worcester wrote:Swish, One can add an elite player as a FA without making a significant trade.

worcester

Absolutely - as long as you have the cap space - as was the case when we signed Horford, the Spurs signed Aldridge and The Warriors signed Durant.

swish

swish wrote:

dboss wrote:

swish wrote:

dboss wrote:

swish wrote:Still a very good chance, in my opinion, that Danny's high draft picks with all there projected future greatness, will still be used to acquire an ESTABLISHED elite player or two. That includes the already drafted Smart and Brown.

 swish

I think that is certainly a possibility although if you consider the trajectory of how far and how fast this team has come without having to part with key core players or picks it is just as likely that the Celtics will not trade Smart and or Brown for that so called Elite player.

When I look at a great team like SA, they have one legit superstar in Leonard yet there they are again at the top of the mountain.  The Spurs configuration proves that you do not have to have 2 and 3 elite players to win.  Some may argue that Aldridge is an Elite player but to me he is a younger version of AH without the passing skills.

You'll not convince me that the way to a championship is by trading for elite level talent.

I think the free agency route and keeping your high draft picks is the best way to go.  Also let me again mention that we really do not need upgrades at the 1, 2 or 3 spots,  I like where we are and all I can say is more of the same please.



     



dboss

  dboss

   You obviously have strong feelings in regards to your below statement - and I certainly respect your opinion, especially on a subject that can tend to be somewhat controversial.
 
        "You'll not convince me that the way to a championship is by trading for elite level talent."

     I have a different view - simply because of the below facts.
Over the last 9 years the championship team has won the league championship 6 times - after having traded for an elite level talent or 2.
      In 2007-08 the Celtics added Allen and Garnett
      In 2008-09 the Lakers added Paul Gasol
      In 2009-10 they won again
      in 2011-12 the  Heat added Bosh and James
      in 2012-13 they won again
      in 2015-16 the Cavs added Love

  If the opportunity arises for the Celts to land an established elite player in the next 2 or 3 years - I''l be surprised if Danny doesn't go all in to land him. He's done it before.

  swish
     

The thing that you are missing is that the Celtics can draft that Elite player.  All the Elite players were drafted by some team and the best opportunity you have to draft an elite player is to be in the lottery and preferably in the top half of the lottery.  

The argument can of course be made that young players take too long to develop but given the current EC standings it is quite clear that Boston can afford to build more talent through the draft.  Secondly why do we have to make a trade???   Free agency is the key and since the Celtics are moving into the elite category of NBA teams (Top 5) that will attract free agents.

The last rebuild is totally different than this one.  I can imaging that Danny would have followed the same plan but something happened.  This team got good and this team got good fast.  DA was able to add two quality starters in Crowder and Thomas without sacrificing their future.  Swish this is a different rebuild. We simply do not have to make a trade and leverage our assets to continue on the path of adding above average talent.  The odds of landing an elite player through the draft is significant given the Nets fleecing.  

I would bet that Danny is pretty comfortable with what he has done and with what he did not do.  

I just think it is relevant to accept the notion that there is more than one way to skin a cat and certainly more than one way to build a championship team.  Our last championship run was rather disappointing in comparison to other Championship Celtics teams and that is because we traded for players that were already on the downward arc of their careers.  We saw physical breakdowns from the big three and we only won One championship.    For Celtics standards, that was a below average run.

I want to see the Celtics continue to build a team characterized by youth, skill  and athleticism while maintaining a strong core of veterans that still have 5 plus years in the tank and when those players decline I want us to already have talent on the team that is even better than them  This would give us a sustainable run much like the Spurs.  

dboss

 Nice response - our opinions differ simply because you have faith in the draft - and I don't. Perhaps its my age or maybe I'm viewing the future threw the wrong end of my binoculars. To much risk for me to rely on the draft.

swish

Swish

I am just saying there is more than one way to get elite talent than trading for it. That is the expensive way to do it. The Celtics have enough assets to spread the risk. Taking a risk drafting at or near the top is a low risk particularly in a draft this deep.

Dboss

as someone who has been "all-in" for getting another all-star through a trade in the past couple years, I think that ship may have sailed now.

a lot will depend on what we do in the playoffs this year, I think.

if we get at least to the east championship round, I believe Danny will NOT make a major trade in the off-season ( unless of course someone wants to give away a young all-star).

I also don't think the money will be there for a max level FA either, though as I've said before I can see a player like Ibaka or Noel coming in  on a deal in the $15M per year range.

Between that and the money KO is likely to get to stay, I think Danny will capped out for large FA signings. Even though KO, Jerebko (who I don't think comes back, right now) Green, Amir and any other current players can be resigned after other signings and allow us to go over the cap.

I just don't see the Money for a max guy.  The other issue is there is only one Max level big man in UFA this year, Blake Griffin.

so lesser than max big men are what is "possible" In FA this off-season.

I have come around now to Dboss' ideals that Danny needs to use the HIGH Level drafts picks and build a team that can be elite for a longer time frame .

Since we are NOW one of the top 4-5 teams in the NBA, there is no need to give away the future, we are already close. add a player like Noel or Ibaka to replace Amir at PF/C and a player like Fultz or Jackson and we are better than this year right there.