Who should the Celtics trade: Marcus Smart, Avery Bradley, Terry Rozier or Isaiah Thomas?

http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/6/14/15798254/who-should-the-boston-celtics-trade-marcus-smart-avery-bradley-or-isaiah-thomas




Choose a guard, any guard.



by CelticsBlog Staff  Jun 14, 2017, 7:40am EDT




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Which one of the Celtics guards should they trade (if any)?

Jeff Clark: I'm a really, really, really big fan of Avery Bradley and in a perfect world I'd love to keep him. On the other hand, we have a lot of guards and we have needs down low that might not all be solved by Ante Zizic. So if we can swap one of our guards for a big, that might be the best way to achieve roster balance.

From a financial perspective, if we make no changes we'll eventually have to pay big bucks to Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley and if we manage to add another big contract guy (Hayward, George, Butler) in addition to Al Horford's max deal, we might run into some unreasonably high tax dollars. Trading Bradley now might be the best value proposition and he would likely bring back more than Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier.

At some point one of these guys that we like a lot is going to need to be traded. It seems like Bradley might be the odd man out.

Keith Smith: I wouldn't trade any of the top guys (Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart), unless it is part of a package to get a star player back. There are lots of suggestions about trading Bradley or Smart for draft picks, but you can only kick the can down the road so far. The Celtics are good now and are trying to improve upon that. Moving Bradley or Smart for a draft pick doesn't improve the roster right now. And the team has good young talent already.

Now, if you can move a guard in a package for a star, you have to consider it. The roster is already getting a little crowded at the guard spot and some sort of consolidation deal seems in order. If the idea is to avoid messy situations with Thomas, Bradley and Smart all being due for new contracts in 2018, then you have to consider moving one or to them.



Boston Celtics v Golden State Warriors
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If that isn't a concern, Terry Rozier or even Demetrius Jackson need to be at the top of the list. There simply isn't room for all five, plus Markelle Fultz. With none of them being overly realistic options to play up a position, minus Smart on occassion, six players is too many for two spots.


The most likely course of action is that the situation remedies itself through a cap space clearing trade to chase a free agent, or in a consolidation trade for a star player.

Sean Penney: Avery Bradley. He presumably would bring more value in a trade than Smart would and it's hard to imagine them keeping both long term. If the Celtics draft Fultz then at some point he's going to need significant minutes and may even supplant Bradley in the starting lineup anyway. Bradley is an elite defender who has made strides on the offensive end in recent seasons. However, I don't view him as the type of player who can be the second or third best guy on a championship team but someone is going to be willing to pay him as if he is. Better to deal him now to get value in return rather than get into a bidding war later over a non-max caliber player.

Alex Kungu: It has to be Avery Bradley. Thomas means too much for the team and Smart is going to be on a much more friendly deal and has room to become better. As a fan its even hard for me to watch the way Bradley took it to Jimmy Butler and John Wall and not want to have him on the team forever, but we can't keep ignoring the fact that his reputation has failed to catch up to his numbers for three years. Bradley isn't going to suddenly stop taking long two's, he won't suddenly become a more efficient passer, and he'll never be able to run the offense and be the one. Bradley is a good player and most coaches would want him. But at his projected contract (possibly north of 20mil/year), and his limitations, he's the most viable option to be traded.

Bill Sy: Many have mentioned it, but let’s be clear: any trade that includes Thomas, Smart, or Bradley has to bring back star. If it’s this summer, we’re most likely talking about either Paul George or Jimmy Butler and if that’s the case, it may not a matter who the Celtics are willing to trade, but who the Pacers or Bulls want.

Trading away a star would signal a rebuild for Indiana and Chicago and I don’t think that either would be interested in Isaiah Thomas. He’ll be 29 next season with a $30M/year max contract due him next summer. Avery Bradley, on the other hand, is two years younger and still trending up. The quiet vet is a culture setter, but he’s not exactly the type of player you build around.

That leaves Smart. He is not the offensive weapon that Thomas is or have the level approach of Bradley, but Smart is a brash personality that a franchise might gamble on when it comes to putting together a young team. As Boston’s 6th man, Stevens has relied on Smart to bring a little bit of everything off the bench and a team could see those intangibles projecting into starter minutes and a positive influence in a locker room.



bob
MY NOTE: Multiple choices are possible, if you feel that we should trade more than one guard. You can also cancel your vote if you have second thoughts and want to redo it.


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Sadly, I picked Bradley.

Reason?  Injury history, recent playoff play, lack of handle, value in trade, potential future salary. That is assuming we take Fultz.

Isaiah is our only All-Star.  Injuries slowed him down more than other team's defense.  We need to add to him, trading him for another All-Star is just a wash.

Smart is a money player, he comes up big at the right time.  I believe his shooting will improve over time.  We control his low cost contract for a couple more years.

Rozier is also a money player who comes up big in the playoffs.  Also low cost.

gyso

I voted Bradley and Rozier. Bradley, I think, needs to go before he asks for more money than he is worth.
Rozier is just because I never liked the pick............otherwise keep him.....lol

I like Rozier...didn't like it when Danny picked him. But I like him now.

in fact IF Bradley is traded, Rozier can do some of the same things defensively , though he is NOT as good as Bradley on that end.

Rozier has a much better handle though and a type A offensive personality, unlike Bradley .

you can do a lot worst than Rozier as your fourth guard, IMO.

be nice to keep them all, but looks like the stars are not aligned for that.

kdp59 wrote:I like Rozier...didn't like it when Danny picked him. But I like him now.

in fact IF Bradley is traded, Rozier can do some of the same things defensively , though he is NOT as good as Bradley on that end.

Rozier has a much better handle though and a type A offensive personality, unlike Bradley .

you can do a lot worst than Rozier as your fourth guard, IMO.

be nice to keep them all, but looks like the stars are not aligned for that.

Yeah, he's grown on me a little. Good backup PG, I suppose. I'm being too harsh on the kid. He stepped up a little this year, unlike Young and Mickey....

In some ways I would like to see the Cs keep all four guys, but as a total group they are not ready to win a championship with this group of guards combined with our other players.

It is very likely that one or more of this group will not be on the team next year especially with three of the four going to be free agents next summer.

red/russ, compared to Mickey and Young, Rozier is ready for the hall of fame.

Hi,
I selected AB but only if this trade brings us on the level of Cavs. Otherwise - what's the point?

AK

I don't see a realistic scenario that I'd move the 1st or IT. So I selected the other 3

wideclyde wrote:In some ways I would like to see the Cs keep all four guys, but as a total group they are not ready to win a championship with this group of guards combined with our other players.

It is very likely that one or more of this group will not be on the team next year especially with three of the four going to be free agents next summer.

red/russ, compared to Mickey and Young, Rozier is ready for the hall of fame.

clyde,

5 guys, including Fultz. 5 out of 12. That's almost half the team and not one of them over 6'4". I'm cool with small-ball, that's the way the league is going, but that seems a little extreme to me. We thought we were guard-heavy last year? How about keeping all our guards and adding one more...?


bob


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The article makes certain assumptions and if they are true than either IT or AB has to be traded.  It assumes we use CAP space to go after a free agent like Hayward or even Griffin.  Or we actually make a trade for a star player.

As usual, I am going to be the contrarian among us.

If the Celtics draft Fultz we will have a total 5 Point guards on this team (IT, MS, TR, MF and DJ) and one shooting guard, Avery Bradley.  So I definitely would not trade Avery Bradley.  

Marcus Smart is not a shooting guard and neither is Terry Rozier or Jackson and even though Markell has off the ball guard skills he will be a rookie and ideally you would want to use him as a BU PG and a BU SG.

I crunched some numbers to review the playoff statistics for the 4 guards mention.

What I found was that IT experienced the largest statistical drop off in production.  But I think we can exclude that based on the fact that he was nursing the injury.  His scoring average was down over 5 PPG.  AB had a slight increase in scoring as did TR.  Smart went down a point PPG but his 3 point shooting was up to 40% but that figure reflects the amazing 7/9 makes during one amazing playoff game for him.

The bottom line is that Marcus Smart continues to struggle putting the ball in the hole as does Terry Rozier but both of them shot the 3 ball very very well during the playoffs.  The sample size is relatively small so I am not sure what that means.

I can see where using free agency to acquire a star player makes sense but I would not use that cash on a player whose positional value is not specifically needed.  That is one reason why I would not want Hayward.  I would love Paul George but that would require a trade and the price will be too high and I think he is heading to the left coast.

If the Celtics expect to compete with the Cavs and the Warriors we need to retain our best shooters and add to them.  AB is one of our best shooters and is our best two way player.

The notion that he has more trade value is the exact reason why you should not trade him.

With respect to salary demands.  None of us knows what it will take to resign IT.  None of us knows what it would take to resign Avery Bradley.

Both are still under contract for another year and IT has stated that he is willing to wait until next year for a new contract.

I would prefer to see the Celtics not trade IT, AB and Smart.  I would be ok if they traded Rozier or Jackson.  But neither will bring back a lot unless other players draft pick (s) are included.  You could however make a minor trade to get a veteran big.  I think Rozier is more talented than Marcus Smart but Marcus is a bigger and more physical guard and I find that quality to be of great value.

Trading either IT or Bradley does not get you a star player.  The Brooklyn pick would be exposed and I am not wanting to see the Celtics do that.

Moving forward Danny Ainge should continue to play the draft lottery where high draft picks are going to be available.  He should build the team through the draft just like Golden State did and he should reward his own players with new contracts.  He should retain the core and upgrade the talent around that core.

I would trade Jackson and maybe OUR 2018 pick and or some 2nd rounders to acquire a solid veteran big.

Next season I want to see IT and AB in the starting lineup.  Before the season is completed I expect that Fultz will be the third guard coming off the bench.  I expect to see Jaylen Brown get expanded playing time.  I expect Marcus Smart to be the ultimate utility player and specialist.  And I can see Terry come in primarily as a defensive minded PG that can match up with the ultra quick PG's in the league.

Next year I want the Celtics to use the Nets pick to go get that high end PF/C becaue that draft is loaded with Bigs!

dboss

dboss wrote:The article makes certain assumptions and if they are true than either IT or AB has to be traded.  It assumes we use CAP space to go after a free agent like Hayward or even Griffin.  Or we actually make a trade for a star player.

As usual, I am going to be the contrarian among us.

If the Celtics draft Fultz we will have a total 5 Point guards on this team (IT, MS, TR, MF and DJ) and one shooting guard, Avery Bradley.  So I definitely would not trade Avery Bradley.  

Marcus Smart is not a shooting guard and neither is Terry Rozier or Jackson and even though Markell has off the ball guard skills he will be a rookie and ideally you would want to use him as a BU PG and a BU SG.

I crunched some numbers to review the playoff statistics for the 4 guards mention.

What I found was that IT experienced the largest statistical drop off in production.  But I think we can exclude that based on the fact that he was nursing the injury.  His scoring average was down over 5 PPG.  AB had a slight increase in scoring as did TR.  Smart went down a point PPG but his 3 point shooting was up to 40% but that figure reflects the amazing 7/9 makes during one amazing playoff game for him.

The bottom line is that Marcus Smart continues to struggle putting the ball in the hole as does Terry Rozier but both of them shot the 3 ball very very well during the playoffs.  The sample size is relatively small so I am not sure what that means.

I can see where using free agency to acquire a star player makes sense but I would not use that cash on a player whose positional value is not specifically needed.  That is one reason why I would not want Hayward.  I would love Paul George but that would require a trade and the price will be too high and I think he is heading to the left coast.

If the Celtics expect to compete with the Cavs and the Warriors we need to retain our best shooters and add to them.  AB is one of our best shooters and is our best two way player.

The notion that he has more trade value is the exact reason why you should not trade him.

With respect to salary demands.  None of us knows what it will take to resign IT.  None of us knows what it would take to resign Avery Bradley.

Both are still under contract for another year and IT has stated that he is willing to wait until next year for a new contract.

I would prefer to see the Celtics not trade IT, AB and Smart.  I would be ok if they traded Rozier or Jackson.  But neither will bring back a lot unless other players draft pick (s) are included.  You could however make a minor trade to get a veteran big.  I think Rozier is more talented than Marcus Smart but Marcus is a bigger and more physical guard and I find that quality to be of great value.

Trading either IT or Bradley does not get you a star player.  The Brooklyn pick would be exposed and I am not wanting to see the Celtics do that.

Moving forward Danny Ainge should continue to play the draft lottery where high draft picks are going to be available.  He should build the team through the draft just like Golden State did and he should reward his own players with new contracts.  He should retain the core and upgrade the talent around that core.

I would trade Jackson and maybe OUR 2018 pick and or some 2nd rounders to acquire a solid veteran big.

Next season I want to see IT and AB in the starting lineup.  Before the season is completed I expect that Fultz will be the third guard coming off the bench.  I expect to see Jaylen Brown get expanded playing time.  I expect Marcus Smart to be the ultimate utility player and specialist.  And I can see Terry come in primarily as a defensive minded PG that can match up with the ultra quick PG's in the league.

Next year I want the Celtics to use the Nets pick to go get that high end PF/C becaue that draft is loaded with Bigs!

dboss

I agree wiith most of this, but have a higher opinion of Rozier. I think he has much of AB`s skill set and is far cheaper. Paul George  has NEVER  made a last minute gane winning shot in his NBA  career. I don`t have a link , but have seen that stated by a reputable source . He doesn`t impress me as a great teammate either, and finally, he would be a rental , unless the Celts signed him long term before finalizing a trade , if that`s even possible. I would prefer Hayward over him. Either one would play mostly three unless one of our guards were traded , and even then, if Stevens went small . Primarily , though , I think the draft is the path to a genuine dynasty . Next years class of bigs is supposedly mouthwatering.

IT .    He has hit his highpoint this year and his value can never be higher.  Next year he will ask for top dollar that would clog our cap space for what we rally need is a snipper and and power forward or center if Zizic does not work out. Picking Fultz as our next PG quarterback makes sense and we will have him at a very favorable salary for at least 3-4 years.

Besides, the Celtics need to get a better blend of balance and reliable scoring and a go to guy as our snipper.  Presently, Crowder, Bradley, KO cannot be relied upon for day in and day out consistent scoring.  All our scoring is centered around IT who can easily be shut down with the right defense as we have witnessed.  He is also a defensive liability and a team defensive liability as other teammates try to help out on his coverage, thereby weakening their own coverage.

112288

This is a great poll! It really calls us to think, not via passion, but what might actually be best for the team.

For me IT is our most valuable trading chip. He is our only All Star. He has an expiring contract. That makes him a perfect candidate to trade for another All Star and it's an All Star that we need to take it to the next level. He is also a good candidate for a sign and trade. But it has to be for a difference maker. No lateral moves here, please.

AB is our next most valuable chip. He is not perfect but he is so much better than Marcus that I'd keep AB over Smart. Energy and passion only take you so far. After that you need skill and Smart is offensively challenged. AB is a much more steady and reliable two way player.

Marcus has all of the intangibles you want in a "glue guy" type of player. He is a dynamic defender. But he can't shoot and one of our glaring weaknesses is balanced scoring.

Rozier and Jackson have very little value over the $ amount of their contracts. Their trade value is strictly about dollar filling, IMO>

We need a true PG to back up IT. Rozier and Jackson are both true pg's but AB and Smart are not. If Fultz gets drafted he is IT's backup. AB at the SG position. and Smart as the elite level defensive specialist. That leaves Jackson and Rozier as the expendables but they have little real value, their contracts are just too small at this stage of their careers.

So I vote none. Stay the course, see what happens this year. Now if Danny gets the right deal, than any of them can be included in the package. But I"m not convinced that will happen this summer. Mebbe next. The wrong trade could take us from a glut of guards but no bigs to having some bigs, but needing guards as well. Combo guards like AB and MS are good to have on your team but only after you have a real pg and a real sg first.

mulcogiseng wrote:This is a great poll!  It really calls us to think, not via passion, but what might actually be best for the team.

For me IT is our most valuable trading chip. He is our only All Star. He has an expiring contract. That makes him a perfect candidate to trade for another All Star and it's an All Star that we need to take it to the next level.  He is also a good candidate for a sign and trade. But it has to be for a difference maker. No lateral moves here, please.

AB is our next most valuable chip. He is not perfect but he is so much better than Marcus that I'd keep AB over Smart. Energy and passion only take you so far. After that you need skill and Smart is offensively challenged. AB is a much more steady and reliable two way player.

Marcus has all of the intangibles you want in a "glue guy" type of player. He is a dynamic defender. But he can't shoot and one of our glaring weaknesses is balanced scoring.

Rozier and Jackson have very little value over the $ amount of their contracts. Their trade value is strictly about dollar filling, IMO>

We need a true PG to back up IT. Rozier and Jackson are both true pg's but AB and Smart are not. If Fultz gets drafted he is IT's backup. AB at the SG position. and Smart as the elite level defensive specialist. That leaves Jackson and Rozier as the expendables but they have little real value, their contracts are just too small at this stage of their careers.

So I vote none. Stay the course, see what happens this year. Now if Danny gets the right deal, than any of them can be included in the package. But I"m not convinced that will happen this summer. Mebbe next. The wrong trade could take us from a glut of guards but no bigs to having some bigs, but needing guards as well. Combo guards like AB and MS are good to have on your team but only after you have a real pg and a real sg first.

I agree about this approach.  

While there is a lot of chatter about Boston being in the mix for free agents DA is just as likely to hold on to the majority of his  Cap space going right into next season.  Before he makes a big time deal he needs to see how Brown develops from last year and he needs to see how well Yabu and Zizic address our needs at PF and center and he needs to see how well Markell Fultz plays at the point and the off guard position.  

The notion that he has to make a deal right now is hogwash.  

I do not buy into the idea that we have to be a championship contender next year.  The plan was a 5 year plan and we have not even begun year 5 yet.  By any measure we are way ahead of schedule.  

dboss

Yabba will have to show what he can do in the preseason, as he is out of the Summer League

Don't want to see any of them get traded, but it's about making the team better. Draft the best player possible or spend to sign a free agent or package a trade that makes the team the best it can. The C's have a bunch of options right know, it's up to the front office to do their job at this time of the year.

jrleftfoot wrote:

dboss wrote:The article makes certain assumptions and if they are true than either IT or AB has to be traded.  It assumes we use CAP space to go after a free agent like Hayward or even Griffin.  Or we actually make a trade for a star player.

As usual, I am going to be the contrarian among us.

If the Celtics draft Fultz we will have a total 5 Point guards on this team (IT, MS, TR, MF and DJ) and one shooting guard, Avery Bradley.  So I definitely would not trade Avery Bradley.  

Marcus Smart is not a shooting guard and neither is Terry Rozier or Jackson and even though Markell has off the ball guard skills he will be a rookie and ideally you would want to use him as a BU PG and a BU SG.

I crunched some numbers to review the playoff statistics for the 4 guards mention.

What I found was that IT experienced the largest statistical drop off in production.  But I think we can exclude that based on the fact that he was nursing the injury.  His scoring average was down over 5 PPG.  AB had a slight increase in scoring as did TR.  Smart went down a point PPG but his 3 point shooting was up to 40% but that figure reflects the amazing 7/9 makes during one amazing playoff game for him.

The bottom line is that Marcus Smart continues to struggle putting the ball in the hole as does Terry Rozier but both of them shot the 3 ball very very well during the playoffs.  The sample size is relatively small so I am not sure what that means.

I can see where using free agency to acquire a star player makes sense but I would not use that cash on a player whose positional value is not specifically needed.  That is one reason why I would not want Hayward.  I would love Paul George but that would require a trade and the price will be too high and I think he is heading to the left coast.

If the Celtics expect to compete with the Cavs and the Warriors we need to retain our best shooters and add to them.  AB is one of our best shooters and is our best two way player.

The notion that he has more trade value is the exact reason why you should not trade him.

With respect to salary demands.  None of us knows what it will take to resign IT.  None of us knows what it would take to resign Avery Bradley.

Both are still under contract for another year and IT has stated that he is willing to wait until next year for a new contract.

I would prefer to see the Celtics not trade IT, AB and Smart.  I would be ok if they traded Rozier or Jackson.  But neither will bring back a lot unless other players draft pick (s) are included.  You could however make a minor trade to get a veteran big.  I think Rozier is more talented than Marcus Smart but Marcus is a bigger and more physical guard and I find that quality to be of great value.

Trading either IT or Bradley does not get you a star player.  The Brooklyn pick would be exposed and I am not wanting to see the Celtics do that.

Moving forward Danny Ainge should continue to play the draft lottery where high draft picks are going to be available.  He should build the team through the draft just like Golden State did and he should reward his own players with new contracts.  He should retain the core and upgrade the talent around that core.

I would trade Jackson and maybe OUR 2018 pick and or some 2nd rounders to acquire a solid veteran big.

Next season I want to see IT and AB in the starting lineup.  Before the season is completed I expect that Fultz will be the third guard coming off the bench.  I expect to see Jaylen Brown get expanded playing time.  I expect Marcus Smart to be the ultimate utility player and specialist.  And I can see Terry come in primarily as a defensive minded PG that can match up with the ultra quick PG's in the league.

Next year I want the Celtics to use the Nets pick to go get that high end PF/C becaue that draft is loaded with Bigs!

dboss

I agree wiith most of this, but have a higher opinion of Rozier. I think he has much of AB`s skill set and is far cheaper. Paul George  has NEVER  made a last minute gane winning shot in his NBA  career. I don`t have a link , but have seen that stated by a reputable source . He doesn`t impress me as a great teammate either, and finally, he would be a rental , unless the Celts signed him long term before finalizing a trade , if that`s even possible. I would prefer Hayward over him. Either one would play mostly three unless one of our guards were traded , and even then, if Stevens went small . Primarily , though , I think the draft is the path to a genuine dynasty . Next years class of bigs is supposedly mouthwatering.

"AB is our best shooting guard". That statement alone is a clear indication that we are hurting at shooting guard. AB is inconsistent and appears to be injury prone. Dont get me wrong I would love to keep AB but not as our starting 2 and unfortunately we dont have that luxury.
AB is well respected around the league and should bring us something back of significance if Danny does what I think hes capable of doing. Prudence dictates that if theres going to be a trade, AB and Crowder will have to be involved.