Very good article that applies to Kobe, KG, Duncan and many other great players

http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/lazenby/2010/04/25/the-slow-death-of-a-competitor/

It is very true for the big players.

The big problem for them I think is that they want to do what they always done, dominate games. They should focus on contributing instead.

As an example Finley seems to have understood that part, he might not have been a superstar even in his glory days but he is still giving a lot of value.

So I think the key for the stars is not so much to know when to quit, it is to know when to hand over the keys to new players and take a different role.

swedeinestonia wrote:It is very true for the big players.

The big problem for them I think is that they want to do what they always done, dominate games. They should focus on contributing instead.

As an example Finley seems to have understood that part, he might not have been a superstar even in his glory days but he is still giving a lot of value.

So I think the key for the stars is not so much to know when to quit, it is to know when to hand over the keys to new players and take a different role.

yeah, I agree.

Good article, not to nitpick but Jerry West did not draft Kobe he traded for him after Kobe stuck his 17 year old lip out and pouted that he would not sign with Charlotte and would only play for the Lakers. It was then that Premier Stern did some back room maneuvering to cajole the 2 teams to make a deal. This is not Laker or Kobe bashing in any way, it is simply how it happened.

TJ,

Great catch. Excellent article. Thanks. Kudos to you for bringing to this Celtics table an article that faces up to cold reality in LA.

As Bryant himself has long acknowledged, it isn’t the age but the mileage that factors into effectiveness of older players. With this in mind, Bryant has explained his goal for the end game of his career — “keep playing until the wheels fall off.”

Not meaning to be a Kobe-basher here, but that is a very selfish position for him to take. He just signed for almost $30M/year for the next 3 years while " the wheels are falling off", a contract which will be hurting his team's ability to bring in the very players that will extend his career and will help the Lakers overcome his diminishing contributions.

I've said, here and at BDC, that it's not the years that count, it's the mileage. This writer, claiming that Kobe admits that, has affirmed that.

Kobe still has some very good years left in him. Anybody who tries to stick a fork in him now will get bitten by the Mamba. But even Kobe is seeing a light at the end of the tunnel and it's Father Time doing his Casey Jones imitation. What I find somewhat inexplicable, given Kobe's undoubted intelligence, is why he's not mentally accepting that and adapting to it, but is rather going for broke with the "until the wheels fall off" attitude instead. The Lakers will not have satisfying seasons going forward if a diminishing Kobe insists on the ball always going through him.

I guess the article started off by explaining it in the context of other great players. When you're #1, it's hard to accept that you're not anymore.

My opinion, anyway.

bob

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Just announced by a Laker spokesman: Kobe Bryant has arthritis in his right index finger.

Not sure what that means, long term. Short term, I have complete confidence that Kobe can use mind-over-matter to ignore it. He's done it with numerous injuries before and I don't doubt he'll do it again. A couple more seasons of it, though? Regularly banging an arthritic joint by catching hot passes or having defenders slapping down on your dribble or wrestling the ball out of your hand for the rebound, doesn't help. Nothing really does, it's arthritis, but could it make it worse?

bob

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bobheckler wrote:TJ,

Great catch. Excellent article. Thanks. Kudos to you for bringing to this Celtics table an article that faces up to cold reality in LA.

As Bryant himself has long acknowledged, it isn’t the age but the mileage that factors into effectiveness of older players. With this in mind, Bryant has explained his goal for the end game of his career — “keep playing until the wheels fall off.”

Not meaning to be a Kobe-basher here, but that is a very selfish position for him to take. He just signed for almost $30M/year for the next 3 years while " the wheels are falling off", a contract which will be hurting his team's ability to bring in the very players that will extend his career and will help the Lakers overcome his diminishing contributions.

I've said, here and at BDC, that it's not the years that count, it's the mileage. This writer, claiming that Kobe admits that, has affirmed that.

Kobe still has some very good years left in him. Anybody who tries to stick a fork in him now will get bitten by the Mamba. But even Kobe is seeing a light at the end of the tunnel and it's Father Time doing his Casey Jones imitation. What I find somewhat inexplicable, given Kobe's undoubted intelligence, is why he's not mentally accepting that and adapting to it, but is rather going for broke with the "until the wheels fall off" attitude instead. The Lakers will not have satisfying seasons going forward if a diminishing Kobe insists on the ball always going through him.

I guess the article started off by explaining it in the context of other great players. When you're #1, it's hard to accept that you're not anymore.

My opinion, anyway.

bob

.

bob,

Kobe's 'wheels falling off' will still probably be better then most players. This last contract is half for what he did and half for what he will do. The same will be done for Jeter after this season.
When you look at how many bad contracts have been had over the last 15 years, giving Kobe 3/$82m is not crazy. (Jermaine O'Neal and McGrady each made $23m this year.) Plus, even if they gave Kobe $4m per year, they are still over the salary cap, so that contract doesn't hurt them as far as signing players.
I agree that it is the mileage not age of the player. Matsuzaka is not an old pitcher but he had so many 150 pitch games in Japan that it looks like it is catching up to him quick.
I don't agree with your point that the ball has to go through Kobe. There were many games this year that Kobe had very few shot attempts in the first half of games. He often waits to see if the others get rolling and if they don't then he takes matters into his own hands.
The one thing he is probably struggling with is that due to the injuries, he probably fees like he aged 3 years from last years Finals and not 1 year.
Kobe was one of the high-fliers in the league. He can no longer play above many other players. He was probably the best player I have ever seen that could consistently hit super hard shots with a player all over him. When you take away is ability to dominate driving to the basket, he becomes a jump shooter, thus the 7 for 21, 10 for 28 games.

bobheckler wrote:Just announced by a Laker spokesman: Kobe Bryant has arthritis in his right index finger.

Not sure what that means, long term. Short term, I have complete confidence that Kobe can use mind-over-matter to ignore it. He's done it with numerous injuries before and I don't doubt he'll do it again. A couple more seasons of it, though? Regularly banging an arthritic joint by catching hot passes or having defenders slapping down on your dribble or wrestling the ball out of your hand for the rebound, doesn't help. Nothing really does, it's arthritis, but could it make it worse?

bob

.

bob,

I never understood Kobe's broken-finger story and why they still say it is broken. That was like 4 or more months ago. My son broke the same finger in a basketball game in november and on the cautious side, we held him out for about 5 weeks and he played the last few weeks with it taped up.
Arthritis seems like a reasonable diagnosis.

Interesting topic...the number of great athletes who finished their careers as champions. I imagine some enterprising poster could create a list of those who have versus those who pushed it beyond the point where they should have done so.

Being most familiar with the Celtics, I know several Celtics left at their zeniths during the Russell years (not difficult to do because it almost didn't matter when they left; the Celtics had won the championship that year), headed by Russell himself and Sam Jones in 1969—arguably a most unlikely year. But certainly, Bird, Parish and McHale didn't.

Maybe TJ or other Lakers fans can provide some names of prominent Lakers who finished their careers on top. The more I think about it, the more rare an event it seems to be.

As for Kobe, no one can fault his intent to give it all he has. From a Lakers point of view, one of the more unfortunate aspects of the drawn-out series with Oklahoma City is that, like the Celtics, Kobe would undoubtedly have benefited from as much rest as possible between series. (Probably Bynum too.)

An aside to TJ. Although the rather constant emphasis of Celtics zeal on this board may sometimes get to you, I have to congratulate you and other Lakers fans for sticking with it. From the board's point of view, you are succeeding in creating a less provincial posting environment here by broadening our horizons with topics such as these.

Speaking for myself, I know I have a tendency to view NBA history very much from the perspective of Celtics history. Yet, in debates of the NBA of the past, I have to keep reminding myself that the Celtics were not necessarily the norm in NBA history. And the inputs of you and your Lakers comrades definitely help in maintaining the broader view. So we thank you for that.

Sam

willjr wrote:Good article, not to nitpick but Jerry West did not draft Kobe he traded for him after Kobe stuck his 17 year old lip out and pouted that he would not sign with Charlotte and would only play for the Lakers. It was then that Premier Stern did some back room maneuvering to cajole the 2 teams to make a deal. This is not Laker or Kobe bashing in any way, it is simply how it happened.

I can't agree with your opinion on this one. Why just make up stuff about David Stern? Charlotte desperately needed a center. Alonzo Mourning just left to sign with Miami. They already had the following players:
Kenny Anderson - PG
Dell Curry - SG
Kendall Gill - SG
Glen Rice - SF
Larry Johnson - PF

If anyone knew Kobe was going to be a great player, why did he get drafted AFTER Lorenzen Wright, Antoine Walker, Samaki Walker, Todd Fuller, Vitaly Potapenko, Kerry Kittles, Eric Dampier and others? See the article below for an article story about this from a Charlotte Newspaper.


FORT MILL, S.C _ Vlade Divac appears to be the Charlotte Hornets' new big man.

The Hornets drafted high school star Kobe Bryant with the 13th pick Wednesday in a prearranged deal to acquire a veteran big man.

An NBA source said Wednesday night that Los Angeles Lakers center Divac is the player Charlotte will get once the salary cap changes after July 1.

Hornets officials refused to reveal the deal except to say the Hornets will get a big man and will not have to give up any veterans. Hornets vice president Bob Bass said it could be a week to 10 days before the deal can be completed.

Looks like a trade that if anything was beneficial to the Hornets.
A established big man with good numbers for a ? star out of high school.

I mean without future-seeing goggles that is.

tjmakz wrote:

willjr wrote:Good article, not to nitpick but Jerry West did not draft Kobe he traded for him after Kobe stuck his 17 year old lip out and pouted that he would not sign with Charlotte and would only play for the Lakers. It was then that Premier Stern did some back room maneuvering to cajole the 2 teams to make a deal. This is not Laker or Kobe bashing in any way, it is simply how it happened.

I can't agree with your opinion on this one. Why just make up stuff about David Stern? Charlotte desperately needed a center. Alonzo Mourning just left to sign with Miami. They already had the following players:
Kenny Anderson - PG
Dell Curry - SG
Kendall Gill - SG
Glen Rice - SF
Larry Johnson - PF

If anyone knew Kobe was going to be a great player, why did he get drafted AFTER Lorenzen Wright, Antoine Walker, Samaki Walker, Todd Fuller, Vitaly Potapenko, Kerry Kittles, Eric Dampier and others? See the article below for an article story about this from a Charlotte Newspaper.


FORT MILL, S.C _ Vlade Divac appears to be the Charlotte Hornets' new big man.

The Hornets drafted high school star Kobe Bryant with the 13th pick Wednesday in a prearranged deal to acquire a veteran big man.

An NBA source said Wednesday night that Los Angeles Lakers center Divac is the player Charlotte will get once the salary cap changes after July 1.

Hornets officials refused to reveal the deal except to say the Hornets will get a big man and will not have to give up any veterans. Hornets vice president Bob Bass said it could be a week to 10 days before the deal can be completed.

I must agree with TJ on this one. This does not make me a fan of David Stern or what he has turned the league into, btw.

Charlotte needed a center. Divac was a proven commodity while Bryant was a high schooler. Unless you are an OBVIOUS freak of nature like LeBron, high schoolers are often very, very much trick-or-treat. I'm not just talking about being a physical freak (does the name "Gerald Green" mean anything to you?), but having a pro's basketball IQ at 19 years old.

If there seems to be some kind of defensible connection between players that come into the league and are more "pro-ready" mentally, I'd say it has something to do with their parents. Jelly Bean begat Kobe. Bill begat Luke. Rick begat Jon and Brent. Eddie begat Stephen. Mike Sr. begat Mike Jr. Gerald Sr. begat Gerald Jr. It's not just the "tall" gene that makes the difference. There are lots of tall people with the physical talents to play B-ball, it's the IQ that's the difference at the pro level.


bob

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I agree that it seems like the basketball IQ can be handed down. LA liked/likes Luke's game because he usually makes the right pass, is in the right spot, etc. He is not physicall talented and not a good shooter.
The Barry boys were great shooters but not nearly as talented as dad. Very smart players also.