POST GAME MIL. BUCKS - HOME OPENER

dboss wrote:The Celtics should focus on winning and developing players.  What would the Patriots do if they lost a key player.  They would acquire a replacement and keep on winning.  

Dboss

We can't compare the current Celts to the Pats.

The Pats have Tom Brady.

I doubt the Pats will reach the Super Bowl if Brady is out for the season at the beginning of the season.

Tom Brady has also been with Belichick for a decade now.

The Celts' best player right now, Kyrie Irving, has only been with Brad Stevens for a few months.

Kyrie has yet to master the Celtic offense.

This current group of Celts has a long way to go before they're worthy of being compared to the Pats.

fierce wrote:

dboss wrote:The Celtics should focus on winning and developing players.  What would the Patriots do if they lost a key player.  They would acquire a replacement and keep on winning.  

Dboss

We can't compare the current Celts to the Pats.

The Pats have Tom Brady.

I doubt the Pats will reach the Super Bowl if Brady is out for the season at the beginning of the season.

Fierce

I was not trying to compare NE to the Celtics.  What I was trying to rely is the notion that when you take a big hit you get up off the floor and keep moving ahead with an ultimate goal of winning.

I strongly disagree with the idea that because we lost Hayward we should focus on player development as opposed to winning.  The future is now.  We both agree that it will take time for this team to come together.  Winning should be our #1 focus.

The reality is that you cannot lose something that you never had. Hayward has not played for Boston except for 5 minutes.  No one knows what his impact would have been although on paper it looked very promising.  Even with Hayward on the team the Celtics would probably be 1-2 years away from the big game but that future is now.

Hayward will be replaced in the lineup by Jason Tatum.  Statistically he will not replace the projected 20/5/5 production that was anticipated by Hayward.  But maybe Tatum will be a better defender and rebounder and just maybe he will average 12 PPG.  Other players on the team will need to make up for the scoring that Hayward most likely would have brought to the table.  In the end the Celtics must gather themselves together and go out there and win.  I expect them to be a very good team even without Gordon.  They cannot afford to  think about ..if only we had Gordon..  Celtics fans should expect this team to win.   I expect them to win no matter the odds.

I think the biggest short term impact of losing Hayward is quality depth off the bench.

Go Celtics!

dboss

dboss wrote:

fierce wrote:

dboss wrote:The Celtics should focus on winning and developing players.  What would the Patriots do if they lost a key player.  They would acquire a replacement and keep on winning.  

Dboss

We can't compare the current Celts to the Pats.

The Pats have Tom Brady.

I doubt the Pats will reach the Super Bowl if Brady is out for the season at the beginning of the season.

Fierce

I was not trying to compare NE to the Celtics.  What I was trying to rely is the notion that when you take a big hit you get up off the floor and keep moving ahead with an ultimate goal of winning.

I strongly disagree with the idea that because we lost Hayward we should focus on player development as opposed to winning.  The future is now.  We both agree that it will take time for this team to come together.  Winning should be our #1 focus.

The reality is that you cannot lose something that you never had. Hayward has not played for Boston except for 5 minutes.  No one knows what his impact would have been although on paper it looked very promising.  Even with Hayward on the team the Celtics would probably be 1-2 years away from the big game but that future is now.  

Hayward will be replaced in the lineup by Jason Tatum.  Statistically he will not replace the projected 20/5/5 production that was anticipated by Hayward.  But maybe Tatum will be a better defender and rebounder and just maybe he will average 12 PPG.  Other players on the team will need to make up for the scoring that Hayward most likely would have brought to the table.  In the end the Celtics must gather themselves together and go out there and win.  I expect them to be a very good team even without Gordon.  They cannot afford to  think about ..if only we had Gordon..  Celtics fans should expect this team to win.   I expect them to win no matter the odds.

I think the biggest short term impact of losing Hayward is quality depth off the bench.  

Go Celtics!

dboss

I would agree with you if this was the Celtics of IT, Bradley, and Crowder.
But this current Celtics team is considered brand new.
Only 4 players from last year's team are returning.

The first step is to learn to play with each other.

Next is learning who are the players that should be included in the rotation.

The wins will come if the Celts continue to make progress.

Right now Brad Stevens is still experimenting.

Reason why I think things would be different if Hayward didn't get injured is it would be close to what happened in 2008, when the Celts got KG and Ray.
Having Hayward, Kyrie, and Horford gives the Celts a new Big 3.

If winning is the #1 focus then guys like Nader and Ojeleye should not be playing.
It would be like the Celtics of KC Jones of the 1980s.
KC Jones didn't develop players, he only played 7 or 8 players every game.

Don't get me wrong, what I mean by developing players is not tanking.
What I mean is giving the young guys more playing time.

fierce wrote:Tom Brady has also been with Belichick for a decade now.

The Celts' best player right now, Kyrie Irving, has only been with Brad Stevens for a few months.

Kyrie has yet to master the Celtic offense.

This current group of Celts has a long way to go before they're worthy of being compared to the Pats.

I gotta tell you, so far I am not that impressed by Kyrie Irving. Missed a shot in game one that could have tied it at the end-the kind of shot Isaiah made over and over again-too much dribbling (and he has a lot of company in that regard...and just overall mediocre play. I know he will improve, but we need him to SCORE and be effective. So far he has not done that. He is shooting under 38% from the field; we need better.

Pumpsie Green wrote:

fierce wrote:Tom Brady has also been with Belichick for a decade now.

The Celts' best player right now, Kyrie Irving, has only been with Brad Stevens for a few months.

Kyrie has yet to master the Celtic offense.

This current group of Celts has a long way to go before they're worthy of being compared to the Pats.

I gotta tell you, so far I am not that impressed by Kyrie Irving. Missed a shot in game one that could have tied it at the end-the kind of shot Isaiah made over and over again-too much dribbling (and he has a lot of company in that regard...and just overall mediocre play. I know he will improve, but we need him to SCORE and be effective. So far he has not done that. He is shooting under 38% from the field; we need better.

Pumpsie,

Nice to see you around here again.  I hope all is well.

I'll forgive Kyrie's missed shot at the end of game 1.  Too many other opportunities missed by too many Celtics in an understandably difficult and emotionally charged game.

My issue with Kyrie so far is his decision making and distribution.  Two games and far too many decisions to take contested shots himself with wings and cutters open.  If you're doubled, someone else has an advantage.  I keep pointing that out along with my disclaimer that I'm not picking on Kyrie.  Not yet anyway!

Regards

Fierce

You need 5 live bodies on the bench who can play.  Once Morris returns that leaves you with Smart Or Brown, Rozier, Baynes and most likely one or two rookies.  Even if Hayward was available you would still have to play one or maybe two rookies off the bench.

I think it is too soon to get down on Irving or anyone else on this team.  Again he had an impressive first game.  At the end Jaylen rushed down the court and hoisted up a 3 point shot we got the rebound and Kyrie had little time to get off another 3 that would have tied the game.  How can anyone fault him for missing that shot.

In the 2nd game he took a lot of bad shots but he missed some good ones too. I also think that the offense was standing around too often like spectatures.

Let's see how they play tonight.

dboss

NYCelt wrote:

Pumpsie Green wrote:

fierce wrote:Tom Brady has also been with Belichick for a decade now.

The Celts' best player right now, Kyrie Irving, has only been with Brad Stevens for a few months.

Kyrie has yet to master the Celtic offense.

This current group of Celts has a long way to go before they're worthy of being compared to the Pats.

I gotta tell you, so far I am not that impressed by Kyrie Irving. Missed a shot in game one that could have tied it at the end-the kind of shot Isaiah made over and over again-too much dribbling (and he has a lot of company in that regard...and just overall mediocre play. I know he will improve, but we need him to SCORE and be effective. So far he has not done that. He is shooting under 38% from the field; we need better.

Pumpsie,

Nice to see you around here again.  I hope all is well.

I'll forgive Kyrie's missed shot at the end of game 1.  Too many other opportunities missed by too many Celtics in an understandably difficult and emotionally charged game.

My issue with Kyrie so far is his decision making and distribution.  Two games and far too many decisions to take contested shots himself with wings and cutters open.  If you're doubled, someone else has an advantage.  I keep pointing that out along with my disclaimer that I'm not picking on Kyrie.  Not yet anyway!

Regards

Its good to be back here.

As regards the team, its just two games into a long season. The guys, including Kyrie, are all learning where they should be on plays. Heinsohn correctly stated that there was too much dribbling. Smart did it; Kyrie did it; Rozier did it. Not enough passing. Its too easy for the defense to react to a lot of dribbling. They all need to swing the ball from side to side and trust in each other to make shots.
On a positive note Jaylen Brown has looked pretty incredible, reminding me of James Worthy in his heyday. He is headed for greatness if he can stay healthy.