Going Forward

The word coming out today, post-surgery, is that Gordon Hayward is most likely done for the season.  I think we all expected that but now it's semi, if not completely, official.  So, what now?

We actually gave up a lot for Hayward.  We traded Jae Crowder because he was now superfluous and we traded Bradley to get under the salary cap because of Hayward.  Those are big losses, especially now.  

Kyrie Irving said he wanted an opportunity "to grow".  Well, the opportunity just fell in his lap.  He has to prove he's worthy now, we paid a steep price for him.  Jeremy Lin is now out for the season which means the Brooklyn pick Danny conveyed to Cleveland for Irving is now looking like The Golden Egg again.

In Hayward's absence a big weight falls on Jaylen Brown's shoulders.  He is, now, the the starting wing who is expected to put points on the board in Hayward's absence.  We need A LOT more points out of Jaylen than last year.  The good news is that he's averaging 21.5ppg after 2 games and both against good teams.  However, with the trade of Bradley we also still need Brown to be a lock down defender.  20ppg and a lock down defender.  In essence, we're asking Jaylen Brown to become an All-Star in his sophomore year.  He's looking great so far but, damn, that is asking a lot of a young man who will be 21 next week.

Jayson Tatum needs to grow up quickly too.  That slack he had because he was playing on a good team with depth at wing just disappeared.  So far so good for him too but he hasn't hit the rookie wall yet neither.  We were all talking about him getting around the same 17mpg Brown got last year.  That number just went up.  That means more rookie mistakes that hurt the team but it also means the shine will come off quicker.

Morris needs to be effective.  While we lost Jae, Hayward and Bradley we've gained Morris, Tatum and Brown.  Known quantities being swapped out for unknowns.  That doesn't mean the unknowns are worse, it just means we don't know.

We can still be a good team but it's hard to lose an All-Star, especially one as versatile as Hayward, and just choo-choo ahead like nothing happened.  EVERYBODY needs to up their game because Brad doesn't have an All-Star coming off the bench who can just slide into Hayward's slot.  Fortunately, there is no coach in the league that can do that as well as Brad but it will take time.  Kyrie Irving was on the floor last night with Abdel Nader and Semi Ojelaye.  Those two bench players had never practiced with Kyrie yet, last night was the first time they had ever been on the floor together at the same time.  Smart and Rozier need to provide big step ups.  TRo is looking like he's ready, now Smart just needs to stop being a brickmeister.

Pace and Space becomes even more critical.  A young team just got a lot younger.  To avoid getting bogged down in half court sets that we have little experience with we need to play uptempo ball, we need to beat defenses down court.  The upside of young legs...

I believe, once our chemistry re-sets and gels, we can still be a playoff team.  We fought two good/very good teams in back-to-back games down to the final minutes and that was without chemistry.  How deep we can go in the playoffs is something else but either way we'll get playoff experience for our young'uns and, as we have seen the last few years, that has great value too.  


bob


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I agree with Tommy Heinsohn that Tatum now has a chance to win rookie of the year because he will get extended minutes.

The biggest issue going forward is scoring off the bench from the wing. Now that Tatum will likely remain in the starting lineup Terry Rozier becomes our best offensive player off the bench followed by Smart.

Danny really needs to add a shooter/scorer off the bench.

dboss

dboss wrote:The biggest issue going forward is scoring off the bench from the wing.  Now that Tatum will likely remain in the starting lineup Terry Rozier becomes our best offensive player off the bench followed by Smart.

Danny really needs to add a shooter/scorer off the bench.

dboss

OR Brad can re configure the starting lineup slightly (killing two birds with one move).
Start
Horford
Morris (when ready)
TATUM
Smart- Elite defender
Irving

Bench in order of minutes:
Jaylen- Scorer and 6th man
Rozier
Baynes


9th and 10th bench spots to be determined, but whoever it is will get minimal time in most games (10 or less minutes). Theis, Yabusele, Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader take your pick which two or it may depend on the match ups. Truth be told Stevens hasn't shown any trust in any of them so far.

With Jaylen's ability to slide into the 2 and 3 spots it makes some sense.

dboss wrote:The biggest issue going forward is scoring off the bench from the wing.  Now that Tatum will likely remain in the starting lineup Terry Rozier becomes our best offensive player off the bench followed by Smart.

Danny really needs to add a shooter/scorer off the bench.

dboss

Ainge can do that later in the season.

Right now guys like Ojeleye and Nader deserves a shot at earning a spot in the rotation.
If they don't improve then Ainge can make a move in January or February.

Nader may be ready but Semi needs a lot more work on his skills.

I do not think that they should wait.  We lost a SF veteran so we need to add another one.  

I also think Brown is a more viable starter and a much better offensive player than Smart.  

Dboss

Semi looked ok defensively. He should be able to play that end. On the other side of the court, he at least should be a capable outside shooter.

Brown so far has been our best player. He should be playing more minutes as should Rozier.

KyleCleric wrote:Semi looked ok defensively. He should be able to play that end. On the other side of the court, he at least should be a capable outside shooter.

Brown so far has been our best player. He should be playing more minutes as should Rozier.

Kyle,

Jaylen is averaging 34 mpg through two games so far.  Not sure he can play many more.  TRo is averaging 23 mpg, he could play a few more.  Interestingly, most of us projected him to play about 23-24mpg this year but, based upon his play-through-two-games, that number seems low now.


bob


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dboss wrote:Nader may be ready but Semi needs a lot more work on his skills.

I do not think that they should wait.  We lost a SF veteran so we need to add another one.  

I also think Brown is a more viable starter and a much better offensive player than Smart.  

Dboss

There's no harm in waiting because it will give the young Celtic players a chance to play.

It's too early to talk about the east finals or the #1 seed in the east because this Celtics team must first learn to play with each other.

Besides, no one out there comes close to the caliber of Gordon Hayward.
Even if Ainge signs a player like Gerald Green, it won't make a big difference.

fierce wrote:

dboss wrote:Nader may be ready but Semi needs a lot more work on his skills.

I do not think that they should wait.  We lost a SF veteran so we need to add another one.  

I also think Brown is a more viable starter and a much better offensive player than Smart.  

Dboss

There's no harm in waiting because it will give the young Celtic players a chance to play.

It's too early to talk about the east finals or the #1 seed in the east because this Celtics team must first learn to play with each other.

Besides, no one out there comes close to the caliber of Gordon Hayward.
Even if Ainge signs a player like Gerald Green, it won't make a big difference.

right on point fierce. but we also need to remember having only 13 players on the roster could also be a problem as the season gets longer.

I think in the end Danny will pick up someone to possibly fill the 10th spot in the rotation and in that case Green would still be my first choice.

But perhaps Nader will play better than I think and can fill that role nicely.

Allen and Bird are with the team through the 1st. Then they can be brought in for 45 days during the regular season. Also they'll be back with the team for the very end of the season.

kdp59 wrote:

fierce wrote:

dboss wrote:Nader may be ready but Semi needs a lot more work on his skills.

I do not think that they should wait.  We lost a SF veteran so we need to add another one.  

I also think Brown is a more viable starter and a much better offensive player than Smart.  

Dboss

There's no harm in waiting because it will give the young Celtic players a chance to play.

It's too early to talk about the east finals or the #1 seed in the east because this Celtics team must first learn to play with each other.

Besides, no one out there comes close to the caliber of Gordon Hayward.
Even if Ainge signs a player like Gerald Green, it won't make a big difference.

right on point fierce. but we also need to remember having only 13 players on the roster could also be a problem as the season gets longer.

I think in the end Danny will pick up someone to possibly fill the 10th spot in the rotation and in that case Green would still be my first choice.

But perhaps Nader will play better than I think and can fill that role nicely.

Agree.

I also think Ainge will make a move at some point in time because they can't go the whole season with only 13 players.

Hayward's injury may set the Cs race for the top spot back a season in the east for a year, but it may also make us much stronger next season with many of the younger guys getting many more minutes of playing experience.

I am not sure that I have seen any names out there who will make much more difference than some of the young guys already on the roster to play Hayward's position. And, still think that a center type guy is more needed than another wing.

Adding another center allows Horford to play more at the forward while yielding more depth behind Baynes. Brown and Tatum then get to play fewer minutes at the power forward and adding more depth at the small forward spot.

Stevens and his staff will get things going again very soon, and the playoffs will be reached again this season although maybe not with such a nice playoff position as we were all thinking before Hayward got hurt.

fierce wrote:

kdp59 wrote:

fierce wrote:

dboss wrote:Nader may be ready but Semi needs a lot more work on his skills.

I do not think that they should wait.  We lost a SF veteran so we need to add another one.  

I also think Brown is a more viable starter and a much better offensive player than Smart.  

Dboss

There's no harm in waiting because it will give the young Celtic players a chance to play.

It's too early to talk about the east finals or the #1 seed in the east because this Celtics team must first learn to play with each other.

Besides, no one out there comes close to the caliber of Gordon Hayward.
Even if Ainge signs a player like Gerald Green, it won't make a big difference.

right on point fierce. but we also need to remember having only 13 players on the roster could also be a problem as the season gets longer.

I think in the end Danny will pick up someone to possibly fill the 10th spot in the rotation and in that case Green would still be my first choice.

But perhaps Nader will play better than I think and can fill that role nicely.

Agree.

I also think Ainge will make a move at some point in time because they can't go the whole season with only 13 players.

Only been 3 days since the injury. Might need some extra time to explore the options.


Shopping for a player is a little bit different than going to Kmart. Of course if you did or could go to a Kmart you wouldn't find much. Ours is now deserted now.

beat

Hi,
There's also a possibility of Disabled Player Exception. For Celtics it'd amount to about $8.5M.
I wonder if Danny will go this route?

AK

I'd be shocked if he didn't apply for it. It seems like the NBA has a low bar to grant them

beat wrote:

fierce wrote:

kdp59 wrote:

fierce wrote:

dboss wrote:Nader may be ready but Semi needs a lot more work on his skills.

I do not think that they should wait.  We lost a SF veteran so we need to add another one.  

I also think Brown is a more viable starter and a much better offensive player than Smart.  

Dboss

There's no harm in waiting because it will give the young Celtic players a chance to play.

It's too early to talk about the east finals or the #1 seed in the east because this Celtics team must first learn to play with each other.

Besides, no one out there comes close to the caliber of Gordon Hayward.
Even if Ainge signs a player like Gerald Green, it won't make a big difference.

right on point fierce. but we also need to remember having only 13 players on the roster could also be a problem as the season gets longer.

I think in the end Danny will pick up someone to possibly fill the 10th spot in the rotation and in that case Green would still be my first choice.

But perhaps Nader will play better than I think and can fill that role nicely.

Agree.

I also think Ainge will make a move at some point in time because they can't go the whole season with only 13 players.

Only been 3 days since the injury.  Might need some extra time to explore the options.


Shopping for a player is a little bit different than going to Kmart.  Of course if you did or could go to a Kmart you wouldn't find much.  Ours is now deserted now.  

beat

Agree.

No need to rush.

Ainge can even wait until December, when players signed in August can already be traded, to make a move.

I think it is already time to shake things up a bit.

I'd like to see a starting lineup of Baynes and Horford as our starting bigs with Theis coming in for Baynes and Morris coming in for Horford with Yabusele backing up the bigs. We started the season a little weak in our Bigs as Danny and Brad went all in on the space and pace roster. While we look to find the right people to fill the 14th and 15th slots we can see what we really have and this should give Horford more minutes at the old 4 position.

Kyrie is still our number 1 ball handler and that is what I want to see him doing. He plays better when put in position as the pg setting up the offense. He does a better job than Marcus or TRo so let's play him at his strength and give him the responsibility that he wants.

JB has earned his starting spot so no reason not to continue. With him as the #2 offensive threat it allows Horford to continue as a distributor/decision maker.

I'd continue to start Tatum. Playing with our best players takes the pressure off of him and hides his rookie learning curve. He has a chance to become a very good player. I could care less about him winning ROY. The Celtics have only had one and as promising as Jayson is, he ain't no Tommy.


Smart has the perfect combination of skills to come off the bench. Skinny Marcus is not a better offensive weapon than chubby Marcus. He should factor best when playing a mix of starters and reserves as the first or second man off the bench.


As others have said, while those two roster spots are dealt with this is an excellent time to give the "end of the bench" time to get some play and show what they can do on this stage.

TRo and Nader are energetic difference makers. This is TRo's opportunity to make it as a roster player or become trade fodder. Nader hustled his way to D-League ROY. He is going to have to continue that aggressive play.

It will be interesting to see how wrong I am over the next couple of weeks.