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Let’s compare Jayson Tatum to some other great Celtics rookies
by bobheckler Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:03 am
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/11/01/let-compare-jayson-tatum-some-other-great-celtics-rookies/8ASLFOTprxDMtKANNQfJvM/story.html?p1=Team_LeadArticleundefined
Let’s compare Jayson Tatum to some other great Celtics rookies
Through seven games, Jayson Tatum is averaging 14 points and 33.1 minutes per game.JIM DAVIS/GLOBE STAFF
By Chad FinnGLOBE STAFF
NOVEMBER 1, 2017
Jayson Tatum is among the most promising Celtics rookies I’ve ever seen. It’s tempting, seven whole games into the 19-year-old’s NBA career, to say he is the best. But I’m trying to harness the hyperbole here, what with 8.5 percent of the season’s schedule complete and so many plot points to be revealed. So I’ll hedge. He’s among the most promising.
Could be the most promising, though. I mean, it’s possible he’s the most polished rookie the Celtics have had in decades. It’s true. I feel like that needs to be said. So, in sum, just to be clear: Tatum is super-promising. Maybe the most promising. Among modern Celtics and such.
All right, so the tempering expectations thing isn’t going so well. Sue me. It’s a genetic flaw. One of my first basketball memories was of my dad coming home from a Celtics-Bucks game in the late 1970s and telling me Marques Johnson was the best player he’d ever seen.
Before his career was derailed by a neck injury and a trade to the cursed Clippers, Johnson was a wonderful player, a UCLA-pedigreed scoring machine who became a five-time NBA All-Star and a three-time All-NBA selection.
But, you know, my dad saw Bill Russell play often. He saw John Havlicek play in that same game. Marques Johnson was not the best player he ever saw. He was the best player he saw that night.
But there aren’t many things that are as satisfying and fun for a basketball fan as recognizing something special in a young player and witnessing the beginning of its fulfillment. Most of us are suckers for a good first impression. Tatum has given us seven games’ worth of an enticing first impression, during which he has averaged 14 points and 7 rebounds, shot 48 percent from the field, and played determined defense.
Tatum, along with electrifying (if occasionally still reckless) sophomore Jaylen Brown, has turned the bummer of Gordon Hayward’s opening night injury into a palpable buzz about how impressively the Celtics Youth is seizing the opportunity. It’s gotten to the point with Tatum that a Celtics fan anticipates watching him play and doesn’t want to see Brad Stevens take him out of the game.
This Celtics team — winners of five in a row entering Wednesday’s matchup with the Sacramento Kings — is really fun, even more so than last year’s gritty and united Eastern Conference finalists. They are at their most fun when Tatum is on the court. Funny how you don’t hear much chirping from the Fire Danny Ainge dingbats these days.
By rule, Tatum cannot be the most enticing Celtics rookie I have ever seen, because the first year I followed basketball was 1979-80, and the Green featured a pretty decent rookie that year. (No, I don’t mean Gerald Henderson.) If you’re of a certain age — which would be my age and up — you know you’ll never see another Celtic like Larry Bird, rookie season or any of the magnificent seasons to follow.
As a fan, I was blessed from the beginning, to the point that while I appreciated Bird’s genius, I also took it for granted. He’d always been there since basketball began to matter to me. Never once did I consider his career would pass so fast. You don’t know about chronic back woes and popped Achilles’ tendons when you’re young.
Tatum cannot be Bird, of course, though it was cool that he became the first Celtics rookie to record a double-double in his debut since Bird. Tatum had 14 points and 10 rebounds on opening night against LeBron James and the Cavs. Bird had 14 points and 10 rebounds against Moses Malone and the Rockets in his NBA debut on Oct. 12, 1979. That’s some sweet symmetry right there, even if it doesn’t mean anything.
That night, Tatum became the first Celtics rookie to start since Paul Pierce in 1999. This has already become a popular comp around here, mostly for Tatum’s ability to knock down a step-back jumper pulled straight from Pierce’s repertoire.
I don’t see it as a perfect comp, though. Tatum is taller — he’s listed at 6 feet 8 inches — and he might be a little more graceful. But no kid is going to come close to replicating Pierce’s geometric genius when it comes to creating his own shot. Among high-end non-Celtic comps, he reminds me most stylistically of ’80s scoring machine Alex English.
Pierce, who dipped to the 10th pick in the 1999 NBA Draft in part because Tatum’s godfather, Larry Hughes, was among those picked ahead of him, is one of three Celtics rookies through the post-Bird years who has been as instantly enticing as Tatum.
The second is Ron Mercer, who arrived as the sixth choice in 1997 as one of the Tim Duncan consolation prizes. That may seem strange now; Mercer played for seven teams in eight seasons and was out of the league at age 28. But if you saw him in the mirage-filled optimism of Rick Pitino’s early days, you remember. He wasn’t the quickest player, but he was Jiffy-smooth, seeming to deliver at least one crazy and-one finish per game. And he could knock down a 15-footer from the elbow all day.
Then there’s Joe Johnson. Talk about a sensational start. In his first seven games with the 2001-02 Celtics, he submitted performances that included: 23 points on 9-of-12 shooting, plus 4 assists, versus the Bucks in his fourth game; 16 points, 10 rebounds, and 3 steals versus the Wizards in his fifth; and 22 points, 8 rebounds, and 6 assists against the Pacers in his seventh.
He was especially dazzling as a passer playing with Pierce and Antoine Walker, though at times he was too deferential.
You know how it played out: regrettably.
Johnson slumped, losing confidence and playing time, and the Celtics traded him after 48 games to the Suns for Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk in their quest to become . . . the second-best team in the Eastern Conference that year, I guess. Hey, the quest was fulfilled. And so was all of Johnson’s promise.
All those years ago, it took me seven games to believe in him. It’s taken the same number to believe in Tatum. No matter how his promising career ultimately plays out, he’s already in some impressive company. Who knows? Maybe he’ll even be the next Marques Johnson.
bob
.
Let’s compare Jayson Tatum to some other great Celtics rookies
Through seven games, Jayson Tatum is averaging 14 points and 33.1 minutes per game.JIM DAVIS/GLOBE STAFF
By Chad FinnGLOBE STAFF
NOVEMBER 1, 2017
Jayson Tatum is among the most promising Celtics rookies I’ve ever seen. It’s tempting, seven whole games into the 19-year-old’s NBA career, to say he is the best. But I’m trying to harness the hyperbole here, what with 8.5 percent of the season’s schedule complete and so many plot points to be revealed. So I’ll hedge. He’s among the most promising.
Could be the most promising, though. I mean, it’s possible he’s the most polished rookie the Celtics have had in decades. It’s true. I feel like that needs to be said. So, in sum, just to be clear: Tatum is super-promising. Maybe the most promising. Among modern Celtics and such.
All right, so the tempering expectations thing isn’t going so well. Sue me. It’s a genetic flaw. One of my first basketball memories was of my dad coming home from a Celtics-Bucks game in the late 1970s and telling me Marques Johnson was the best player he’d ever seen.
Before his career was derailed by a neck injury and a trade to the cursed Clippers, Johnson was a wonderful player, a UCLA-pedigreed scoring machine who became a five-time NBA All-Star and a three-time All-NBA selection.
But, you know, my dad saw Bill Russell play often. He saw John Havlicek play in that same game. Marques Johnson was not the best player he ever saw. He was the best player he saw that night.
But there aren’t many things that are as satisfying and fun for a basketball fan as recognizing something special in a young player and witnessing the beginning of its fulfillment. Most of us are suckers for a good first impression. Tatum has given us seven games’ worth of an enticing first impression, during which he has averaged 14 points and 7 rebounds, shot 48 percent from the field, and played determined defense.
Tatum, along with electrifying (if occasionally still reckless) sophomore Jaylen Brown, has turned the bummer of Gordon Hayward’s opening night injury into a palpable buzz about how impressively the Celtics Youth is seizing the opportunity. It’s gotten to the point with Tatum that a Celtics fan anticipates watching him play and doesn’t want to see Brad Stevens take him out of the game.
This Celtics team — winners of five in a row entering Wednesday’s matchup with the Sacramento Kings — is really fun, even more so than last year’s gritty and united Eastern Conference finalists. They are at their most fun when Tatum is on the court. Funny how you don’t hear much chirping from the Fire Danny Ainge dingbats these days.
By rule, Tatum cannot be the most enticing Celtics rookie I have ever seen, because the first year I followed basketball was 1979-80, and the Green featured a pretty decent rookie that year. (No, I don’t mean Gerald Henderson.) If you’re of a certain age — which would be my age and up — you know you’ll never see another Celtic like Larry Bird, rookie season or any of the magnificent seasons to follow.
As a fan, I was blessed from the beginning, to the point that while I appreciated Bird’s genius, I also took it for granted. He’d always been there since basketball began to matter to me. Never once did I consider his career would pass so fast. You don’t know about chronic back woes and popped Achilles’ tendons when you’re young.
Tatum cannot be Bird, of course, though it was cool that he became the first Celtics rookie to record a double-double in his debut since Bird. Tatum had 14 points and 10 rebounds on opening night against LeBron James and the Cavs. Bird had 14 points and 10 rebounds against Moses Malone and the Rockets in his NBA debut on Oct. 12, 1979. That’s some sweet symmetry right there, even if it doesn’t mean anything.
That night, Tatum became the first Celtics rookie to start since Paul Pierce in 1999. This has already become a popular comp around here, mostly for Tatum’s ability to knock down a step-back jumper pulled straight from Pierce’s repertoire.
I don’t see it as a perfect comp, though. Tatum is taller — he’s listed at 6 feet 8 inches — and he might be a little more graceful. But no kid is going to come close to replicating Pierce’s geometric genius when it comes to creating his own shot. Among high-end non-Celtic comps, he reminds me most stylistically of ’80s scoring machine Alex English.
Pierce, who dipped to the 10th pick in the 1999 NBA Draft in part because Tatum’s godfather, Larry Hughes, was among those picked ahead of him, is one of three Celtics rookies through the post-Bird years who has been as instantly enticing as Tatum.
The second is Ron Mercer, who arrived as the sixth choice in 1997 as one of the Tim Duncan consolation prizes. That may seem strange now; Mercer played for seven teams in eight seasons and was out of the league at age 28. But if you saw him in the mirage-filled optimism of Rick Pitino’s early days, you remember. He wasn’t the quickest player, but he was Jiffy-smooth, seeming to deliver at least one crazy and-one finish per game. And he could knock down a 15-footer from the elbow all day.
Then there’s Joe Johnson. Talk about a sensational start. In his first seven games with the 2001-02 Celtics, he submitted performances that included: 23 points on 9-of-12 shooting, plus 4 assists, versus the Bucks in his fourth game; 16 points, 10 rebounds, and 3 steals versus the Wizards in his fifth; and 22 points, 8 rebounds, and 6 assists against the Pacers in his seventh.
He was especially dazzling as a passer playing with Pierce and Antoine Walker, though at times he was too deferential.
You know how it played out: regrettably.
Johnson slumped, losing confidence and playing time, and the Celtics traded him after 48 games to the Suns for Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk in their quest to become . . . the second-best team in the Eastern Conference that year, I guess. Hey, the quest was fulfilled. And so was all of Johnson’s promise.
All those years ago, it took me seven games to believe in him. It’s taken the same number to believe in Tatum. No matter how his promising career ultimately plays out, he’s already in some impressive company. Who knows? Maybe he’ll even be the next Marques Johnson.
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62526
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Let’s compare Jayson Tatum to some other great Celtics rookies
by fierce Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:18 am
Tatum is a future All-Star.
It's not a question of will he be an All-Star, it's when he'll be an All-Star.
It's not a question of will he be an All-Star, it's when he'll be an All-Star.
fierce- Posts : 1251
Join date : 2017-04-22
Re: Let’s compare Jayson Tatum to some other great Celtics rookies
by Phil Pressey Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:07 pm
fierce wrote:Tatum is a future All-Star.
It's not a question of will he be an All-Star, it's when he'll be an All-Star.
I will take that up a notch by saying the only question left for Tatum is whether he will be an All-Star or transcendent and end up on all-time top 50 or 100 lists.
I need to see a bit more consistency from Jaylen before adding him to a similar discussion. He will definitely be a good player with a long career, but will he truly carve a historic niche as the consensus seems to be assuming with Jayson?
Phil Pressey- Posts : 2063
Join date : 2017-10-24
Re: Let’s compare Jayson Tatum to some other great Celtics rookies
by cowens/oldschool Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:34 pm
I think Jaylen is going to be an all star this year
cowens/oldschool- Posts : 27667
Join date : 2009-10-18
Re: Let’s compare Jayson Tatum to some other great Celtics rookies
by kdp59 Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:03 am
another comparison to Alex English ( or maybe its the same writer).
But it still rings true to me.
one of the top 50 players ever?
that's getting ahead of ourselves just a little bit.
But it still rings true to me.
one of the top 50 players ever?
that's getting ahead of ourselves just a little bit.
kdp59- Posts : 5709
Join date : 2014-01-05
Age : 65
Re: Let’s compare Jayson Tatum to some other great Celtics rookies
by wideclyde Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:51 am
I really put zero thought into which other guy (Cs or elsewhere) that Tatum compares to after less than ten NBA games. He has some comparisons to the many names mentioned above, but I would rather just let him play and develop his game. He is off to a very good start and seems smart enough to know that he has lots of improving yet to do.
He is not Mr. Larry Bird so the rest of the guys mentioned are inconsequential at this time in his career.
On another thought, wouldn't it be great if he could become another Larry Bird?
He is not Mr. Larry Bird so the rest of the guys mentioned are inconsequential at this time in his career.
On another thought, wouldn't it be great if he could become another Larry Bird?
wideclyde- Posts : 2390
Join date : 2015-12-14
Re: Let’s compare Jayson Tatum to some other great Celtics rookies
by NYCelt Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:58 am
Way, way, too soon for this one!
But, I will say, this is the player I was dying for us to draft for a reason. It was obvious from the time he hit the floor for Duke that he had high potential as an NBA forward.
What I do think he points out is the foolishness of automatically assigning young players to bench roles. Same with Brown. Sometimes a kid comes along that you need to give big minutes from the start. While I won't proclaim him an All-Star yet, I think Tatum is one of those players you give high minutes from day one.
But, I will say, this is the player I was dying for us to draft for a reason. It was obvious from the time he hit the floor for Duke that he had high potential as an NBA forward.
What I do think he points out is the foolishness of automatically assigning young players to bench roles. Same with Brown. Sometimes a kid comes along that you need to give big minutes from the start. While I won't proclaim him an All-Star yet, I think Tatum is one of those players you give high minutes from day one.
NYCelt- Posts : 10791
Join date : 2009-10-12
Re: Let’s compare Jayson Tatum to some other great Celtics rookies
by Phil Pressey Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:14 pm
I'm thinking Len Bias or a similar body type. I don't get the Pierce comparisons. I'd need to see Tatum take over some games to see more clearly his true ceiling for a basketball personality. Maybe he is like a younger Pierce?
I didn't watch much Bias. I looked it up. It seems he was 6 foot eight with speed. Tall. Could shoot. Drive to the hoop. Rebound. All the things one expects from a real superstar. Tatum didn't have this aura coming into the draft, but it looks like he does now.
Fultz seems to be a bust the way he was showcased. Maybe Danny is a genius. Other teams have helped Danny win two straight drafts and even Marcus Smart. In 2014, Utah went for Dante Exum. Thank you.
The Lakers have hooked us up the last two years. They took Ingram over Jaylen. They took Lonzo Ball over Jayson.
The funniest or biggest win might be Philly taking Fultz. Hopefully that pick pans out.
This is someone pinch me territory.
Irving is speaking platitudes about Brad.
I think Danny has a chance of matching Red. That might sound ridiculous, but we should be #1 in the future rankings. I guess that is based on the next three years.
The Celtics could be the #1 liked destination despite the lousy weather.
We could win eight titles over the next ten years. It would be outrageous, but none of us would be complaining.
For devil's advocate, anything less than three titles out of this will seem a letdown. We could be setting us up for tragedy. I'm not saying there will be another Bias or Reggie Lewis, but for example, with a little less luck, Hayward's career could have ended.
I did not enjoy that game despite the C's almost winning. Then we lost again. But that was then, this is now.
I didn't watch much Bias. I looked it up. It seems he was 6 foot eight with speed. Tall. Could shoot. Drive to the hoop. Rebound. All the things one expects from a real superstar. Tatum didn't have this aura coming into the draft, but it looks like he does now.
Fultz seems to be a bust the way he was showcased. Maybe Danny is a genius. Other teams have helped Danny win two straight drafts and even Marcus Smart. In 2014, Utah went for Dante Exum. Thank you.
The Lakers have hooked us up the last two years. They took Ingram over Jaylen. They took Lonzo Ball over Jayson.
The funniest or biggest win might be Philly taking Fultz. Hopefully that pick pans out.
This is someone pinch me territory.
Irving is speaking platitudes about Brad.
I think Danny has a chance of matching Red. That might sound ridiculous, but we should be #1 in the future rankings. I guess that is based on the next three years.
The Celtics could be the #1 liked destination despite the lousy weather.
We could win eight titles over the next ten years. It would be outrageous, but none of us would be complaining.
For devil's advocate, anything less than three titles out of this will seem a letdown. We could be setting us up for tragedy. I'm not saying there will be another Bias or Reggie Lewis, but for example, with a little less luck, Hayward's career could have ended.
I did not enjoy that game despite the C's almost winning. Then we lost again. But that was then, this is now.
Phil Pressey- Posts : 2063
Join date : 2017-10-24
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