POST GAME CHICAGO - AWAY

Celtics Notes: Kyrie Irving’s Absence Can’t Be Used As Excuse For Loss To Bulls

NESN by Adam London on Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 10:56PM

The Boston Celtics were expected to end their road trip on a high note, even without their star player. Kyrie Irving wasn’t able to suit up Monday night due to a quad contusion, but the C’s seemingly could afford to be without the point guard thanks to a favorable matchup with the lowly Chicago Bulls. However, Chicago didn’t look like the NBA’s worst team against Boston. The Bulls, who entered the contest with a league-worst 5-20 record, absolutely torched the Celtics in a 108-85 victory at United Center.

The C’s completely lacked rhythm on offense, and their defensive pressure was inadequate, to say the least. Boston has dealt with injuries throughout the season, but the team’s “next-man-up” mentality has proved effective in times of need. The Celtics’ reserves didn’t rise to the occasion Monday, though, as the green’s reserves combined for only 30 points compared to the Bulls’ 55, led by a 23-point performance from Bobby Portis.

The green’s offensive showing surely would have been different with Irving on the floor, but it’s doubtful he could have compensated for the team’s general lack of effort. Chicago entered the game statistically ranked as the worst defensive team in the league, but Boston still struggled on offense from wire to wire. The Celtics already have proven this season that they can make do without Irving. The star guard previously missed a game as a result of a facial fracture, but Boston still managed to defeat a tough Toronto Raptors team that is expected to be one of the stronger forces in the Eastern Conference this season.

While there certainly won’t be many smiles on the team’s flight back to Boston, the loss to the Bulls ultimately can be viewed as a blessing in disguise. The C’s hadn’t suffered a blowout defeat yet this season, and Monday night was just about as ugly as it gets. Boston can view the forgettable contest as a wake-up call and a realization that you can’t play to your competition.

In the top-heavy East, it’s important now for the Celtics to take care of business against inferior teams. An early-December loss isn’t catastrophic for the Celtics, but Monday’s matchup with the Bulls simply is one they should have had.

Here are some other notes from Celtics-Bulls: — Boston only scored 13 points in the second quarter, marking its lowest point total in a quarter this season. — Jayson Tatum’s four-point night ended the rookie’s streak of double-digit scoring performances at 16 games. — The Celtics aren’t expected to be without Irving for very long, but it looks like the same can’t be said for Marcus Morris. — Boston (15) nearly doubled Chicago ( in the turnover margin.
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Celtics defense crumbles as they're blown out by Bulls, 108-85

NBC SPORTS BOSTON By A. Sherrod Blakely December 11, 2017 10:12 PM

It was a blowout in the Windy City, but not exactly how anyone saw coming.

A day after exacting revenge against Detroit for what was Boston’s worst loss of the season, the Celtics deliver a stinker of all stinkers in being soundly beaten 108-85 by the Bulls who now "improve" their record to 6-20 with a third straight win.

The Celtics (23-6) were without Irving who suffered a quads injury against the Pistons on Sunday. Boston was also without Marcus Morris (left knee soreness) whose return is to be determined.

But we’ve seen the Celtics in the past play without key players and find a way to not just compete but emerge victorious.

Not on Monday.

It seemed most of the game, the Celtics were a step slow at both ends of the floor resulting in the Bulls getting great looks offensively and making more plays than usual on defense.

While most of the focus without Irving was on Boston’s offense, it was the Celtics’ defense that truly let them down.

At no point did the Celtics apply the kind of defensive pressure you expect to see from the league’s top-ranked defense.

Bobby Portis and Nikola Mirotic delivered a devastating 1-2 punch for the Bulls with 23 and 24 points, respectively.

And they did so from the perimeter as well as from inside the paint with the Celtics offering little to no resistance or playing with any sense of force needed to win.

After trailing most of the game, the Celtics were down 78-63 going into the fourth quarter in part because of the monster game Portis (19 points on 8-for-11 shooting) was having for the Bulls through the first three quarters of play.

And as the game got more lopsided in the fourth, Celtics head coach Brad Stevens emptied his bench only for the team’s end-of-the-bench reserves literally pick up where the regulars left off in what was the worst loss of the season; coming against the worst team in the NBA nonetheless.

112288

You are due a few bombs in a season....................I guess this is one of them.

Perhaps this is a reminder and wake - up call that every night is a work night and no easy coasting to a win because you just showed up!!!!!!

112288

I said yesterday that this game should not have been a loss even without Irving. The Bulls are a last place team and were without one of their better scorers as well.

If it was to be a loss, it never should have been to the degree that it was. Yes, no team wins every game even against a last place team even if you have your best player standing in street clothes.

But, a lackadaisical performance like against the Bulls is unacceptable. Perhaps a loss without Irving, but not a blowout loss to a last place team. We just did not look interested in playing last night, and that is not a good look for the first place Boston Celtics.

Long season.  I still think 60 wins is about the best we can get and come April we’ll know alot more.  

Injuries are going to happen.  

We are never as bad as one game can show nor as good as the next.  

It’s 1 loss on the last game of a road trip and the second of a back to back.   

beat

It happens. Moving on.

Second game of a back-to-back, with both games away. The "last place team" just got a top player back (Nikola Mirotic). We were missing our best starter/play maker and arguably out best scorer off the bench.

Perhaps this game showed our true weakness, the one that needs to be filled by the DPE. That weakness is point guard, AKA floor general. With Kyrie out, that left Smart and Horford as the only ball handlers. Rozier lead the team in assists, but it never seems like he is a capable leader on the floor. He surely failed the eye test, just read some of the comments on the Game On thread.

As others have said, it is only one game.

Next, a little home cooking. That sounds like the remedy.

gyso

This loss has me waffling a bit.  On one hand, I agree with MrKleen.  It's one loss to a team that, if we played them 10x straight, probably wouldn't win another one.  Furthermore, we were playing without two key players.  On the other hand, they highlighted some weaknesses we have.  They highlighted how completely, totally dependent we are on Kyrie Irving to create opportunities for our offense.  It's not just the points he scores but the pressure he puts on the defense to react to him which creates opportunities for our other players.  It also highlighted how very defense-centric our bench is.  Yeah, we already knew they were that way but it is now painfully obvious that we not only need Kyrie to offensively drive the first unit, we also need Morris to offensively drive the 2nd unit.  Our bench was 11-32 (34%) for 30 points, but 8 of those came from Nader, Bird and Kadeem Allen who were in for garbage time.  Their bench was 17-29 (59%) for 55 points.  I don't know why but Bobby Portis always has great games against us.

Tatum with his worst offensive outing of the year.  1-7, 0-4 from 3.  He grabbed 10 boards but a very uncharacteristic shooting night for him.  We're 1/3 of the way through the season, he has logged a lot of minutes, and this was the 2nd game of a b2b.  This could have been the start of him hitting the rookie wall, or it might have just been an off night.  Stay tuned.

15 TOs.  4 by Baynes, 4 by Smart and 3 by Brown.  Baynes' were from overaggressiveness (and some bad calls), Smart's were from dumbness and Brown's were from his somewhat weak handle.  HUGE step up this year by Jaylen, but we all know what he needs to work on this summer:  frito shooting and ballhandling.  I think his frito shooting is all mental.  If you can shoot almost 40% from 3 with a defender running at you you can shoot 75% from the line with nobody moving and all the time in the world.  The game, overall, has slowed down for him a bit but it hasn't at the line, his brain isn't slowing down at the line and so it is nothing more than a Ray Allen drill.  Relax, young man, relax.  The refs will give you the time to relax before you shoot.  His ballhandling, however, will take work.  It was fine last year when he played 3 but now that he's playing 2 it is inadequate.  This is a recurring issue we've seen all season.

Ok, so we laid an egg.  We shot under 40%, gave up 48% and, once again, made Bobby Portis look like an All-Star.  We're still a league-leading 23-6 but our fundamental issues that I cited in my first paragraph aren't going away.  We need players besides Kyrie to create offense and if Morris' knee issue is more substantive and long-lasting that originally thought then we need help there.  It could be Nader, it could be Bird, it could be Danny using the DPE but we need offense off the bench and if it isn't going to be Marcus Morris...


http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975142



bob


.

Next game....

Over-analysis leads to paralysis.

It's a loss. The team will make adjustments and not dwell on it, I suppose I don't need to either.

I'm glad I missed that hot mess.

Glad to see everyone taking the loss in stride.

It's getting to be clear just what this team is about this season. We know how good this team can be when they are playing well and we got a new lesson on what happens when the team doesn't play Celtic fastpaced and spaced ball movement roundball. Just the latest opportunity for the Celtics to learn from their mitsakes, improve and move on.

Everyone is doing their jobs but we are not quite there yet.

The big issue last night was lack of ball and player movement. We need a pass first point guard who can make his shots. We've needed one since Rondo left. Smart does an ok job of ball distribution but he didn't last night. No one was moving. They just stood around waiting for the ball to get to them. Bear looked quite foolish last night, down on the floor, up on his knees, trying to keep control of the possession, while no one came to bail him out.

I have very little confidence in TRo to get the job done. He is a shoot first player who can facilitate if he is locked down providing he doesn't loose the ball. The team plays best when the ball is moving Why does it ever stop? It's OK if they defend well. It's not OK to go away from the game plan so totally that you get blown out by a last place team.

We need a rim protector who can score down low. That is Theis' game but he only got 11 minutes last night.

Bear isn't capable at this point in his young career to carry the load of the second unit. I'd like to see him play with our better players so he can get his rhythm and his weakness' can be hidden.

Semi seems to have hit a wall. I feel sorry for the wall. He will get a second wind and play better soon.

Game balls to Portis and Mirotic. They both had very good games. they were difference makers last night. I expect Chicago to improve now that their best player is back.

So really, not a lot to fret about a blowout loss. It happens. What is most important is that they get the next game. And of course, the very last game of the season.

It would be hard to over-think this loss because the Celtics's body of work this season has been superlative.

Concerns should be tempered. Great teams will lose games to poor teams. In absence of some pattern, I look at the loss as a minor fender bender on the road that is barely noticed.

dboss

kdp59 wrote:I'm glad I missed that hot mess.

I just found out there was a brutal loss last night after thinking the game was tonight.

I'm very disappointed in Marcus Smart from looking at the box score. I'm sick of all his turnovers and mediocre assist numbers. Maybe his contract running out has him on edge.

Yeah, it was only one loss. But the team is still thin upfront and Smart is falling way short as a pg since a nice start to the year. I don't see Horford's "pg" numbers ever fall. I consistently see him putting up a decent chunk of assists with few to no turnovers.

Only 11 minutes for Theis? He was that bad? He didn't deserve the benefit of the doubt other players receive? I guess missing the game means I'll stop right there.

Phil Rozier was a lot worse than Smart, clueless how to set up an offense in his 3rd year.

If you look at the numbers both Smart and Rozier had their ups and down. I thought Terry had the better game (more assists and less turnovers than Smart)

Their numbers //each scored 13 points and each shot 5-12

Marcus had 2 rebounds 4 assists but also 4 tunovers
Terry had 3 rebounds 5 assists and 2 turnovers.

If there is a thumbs down reaction to this game I think it should be based on the way the team played and not individual players.

dboss

cowens/oldschool wrote:Phil Rozier was a lot worse than Smart, clueless how to set up an offense in his 3rd year.

For ball distributing, I came to the conclusion last year it's just not Rozier's game but that Smart is decent at it. I'm wondering what happened to that part of Marcus' game. I think Terry is closer to a one-dimensional SG like Avery for offense. Rozier might have a higher ceiling than Avery in this one area, but it doesn't look like too much more.

With Kyrie out, Smart needed to produce assists. Maybe it's more the turnovers that are unsettling because the ball is always moving around. Maybe DBoss is right it was a team loss and tough to pin blame.

I wouldn't have Danny's patience. I'd be sealing up holes as soon as possible. A bad losing stretch could completely wipe out the start. It's unlikely, but the C's are vulnerable as all teams are for injuries. The C's have been missing a fifth big anyway. Yabusele and Larkin right now do not seem capable for third string on a championship team.

I'm not worried. I think someone said this could all be gravy until next year when Hayward is back, Tatum and Brown are seasoned, etc..

In the back of my mind, however, I see the salary cap and luxury tax. I see Golden State got extremely lucky with Curry's contract. No one knows for sure what will happen with Smart. There are whispers Baynes has outplayed what Danny will be able to offer him.

So perhaps no year should be seen as a bridge year. One never knows what the future will bring. So I would definitely be looking for a backup point guard and a center. There seems to be no rush except for the Morris situation and if Smart can up his game a bit, the backup pg role is already filled.

That was the first spanking this year, but there was no Kyrie and it was a back to back on the road. It was definitely a trap game or scheduled loss. It's disappointing the C's weren't ready for the opportunity, but this is a new team still early in the season.

Yeah, I agree with everyone saying it's just one game and they happen. It must have been a perfect storm. Tatum was off, I see. So, there will have to be more sustained bad play before anything has changed.

The C's must have been hungover from the Detroit win.

Phil Pressey wrote:

kdp59 wrote:I'm glad I missed that hot mess.

I just found out there was a brutal loss last night after thinking the game was tonight.

I'm very disappointed in Marcus Smart from looking at the box score. I'm sick of all his turnovers and mediocre assist numbers. Maybe his contract running out has him on edge.

Yeah, it was only one loss. But the team is still thin upfront and Smart is falling way short as a pg since a nice start to the year. I don't see Horford's "pg" numbers ever fall. I consistently see him putting up a decent chunk of assists with few to no turnovers.

Only 11 minutes for Theis? He was that bad? He didn't deserve the benefit of the doubt other players receive? I guess missing the game means I'll stop right there.

The team shot .398 from field - and that certainly doesn't help individual assist figures - plus the Celts only had 11 unassisted FG'S to the Bulls 16 unassisted FG'S. But then again - does it really matter - you get the same number of points - assisted or not.

swish

swish wrote:The team shot .398 from field - and that certainly doesn't help individual assist figures - plus the Celts only had 11 unassisted FG'S to the Bulls 16 unassisted FG'S. But then again - does it really matter - you get the same number of points - assisted or not.

swish

I think assists matter a lot. Good ball movement creates the best shots.

Unfortunately I missed the game, so I can't say much. You're right if players don't make their shots, the guy making the pass gets ripped off for credit.

I am seeing a lot of games from Smart lately with three, four, five or so turnovers without the minimum 8-10 assists that should come with that.

Rozier is actually putting up a solid assist to turnover ratio akin to Tatum's three point percentage. They are putting up excellent numbers but with modest volume for the two stats.

I can accept Smart as a streaky shooter but not if he can't at least be above average with assists to turnovers. He can't afford to be bad at everything (on offense).

I agree with you for any one game but not over big blocks of games. Maybe I am too focused on Smart, but it is his contract year.