POST GAME NETS- HOME

If the other normal thread gets started, hope this content can be moved there.

We won by out spurting them, twice building up 13 point leads, but they came back both times, made it a little too close for comfort. Great to see Jaylen back, had a beautiful end to end highlight reel finish. Tatum with an off game, it’s okay rook, others like Morris stepped up and Kyrie while his closing hero ball was a little off at the end still carried us with 28 whirling dazzling points. Al and Baynes both had 10 boards, nice to see, but the opposition was Tyler Zeller, enough said.

I actually root for the Nets, living in NYC in my youth, I’ve acquired a love of certain Brooklyn spots, like Smith St and Randazzos, still my favorite seafood place. Brooklyn has character and real characters and Red was from there, if you’ve ever heard Red talk, he was pure from the streets of Brooklyn. And Brooklyn was instrumental in our rebuild, so even with them losing their picks, I’m amazed at how good they have looked this year considering....When they get D’Angelo Russell back with Lavert, they will have a potential lethal young backcourt, during that game a lot of you saw that Lavert can play, he’s under the radar, but love his vision and size. Nets could be in playoffs next year if they can improve their center position....I don’t know what is going on with Okafor?

Which brings us to Marcus Smart, that lay up/weak dunk attempt was not the first that he’s blown after a nice steal. Bob made a comment that I’ve turned on him, actually the one that got me started on him last year even though I might not have said a lot was Swish, he had some legit points. Now if Smart was in his first or second year, I consider that a grace period, young player finding his niche or role....by the 4th year I’d like to see more not less from your hard work as do most coaches and GM’s. I’m really impressed lately by Rozier, he’s finishing and shooting better, with his defense he’s definitely a sparkplug and he can finish strong and dramatically after a steal. I love Smarts intangibles and defense, but at some point it’s impossible to not notice that those bad funk 2-12 stretches can/have really hurt us too. Right now there’s other young backcourt players emerging like Kris Dunn and Lavert that I would trade even up for Smart in a heartbeat. That does not mean I’m not rooting for him. Smart definitely has helped us, but a Lavert could help us even more IMHO.

Happy New Year Cow, Root for the Nets? I always new there was something a little off with you.

I'm giving a game ball to Mercurial Morris. He got most of the rust off in the last game and he was a difference maker in the last game of last year. Maybe not the typical award of a game ball but I'm just glad he is back to help the second unit.

Really happy to see TRo starting to show a little consistency. If you want to be a starter in the NBA you have to make the most of every minute you are given to play.

Very happy to see Jaylen back on the court. He got some good minutes in and scored a few points too. 5/10 and 3/5 beyond the arc. for 13 He also got a few boards a couple of assists and blocks too. Welcome back!

This ain't the Nyets of the past few years. Like Philly they are moving up to the next level and will be more and more competitive.

Praying that Woden will help us honor his day in the only meaningful way.

A post-game thread is a post-game thread is a post-game thread so this one works as well as any.  Thanks for starting it, Cow.

Cowens is right about Brooklyn, it is cool.  In fact, it's gotten so hip that people are moving out to escape the hipsters and going to Manhattan.  Truth.  I'm from Queens, home of the best and biggest selection of ethnic food in the 5 boroughs but, if I were to relocate to NY (this is purely hypothetical since I have no intention of allowing those winters to sink into my bones again) I could see myself finding a place in Brooklyn.

5 Celtics in double digits and Tatum had 9.  So why does it feel lately like our offense is Kyrie and that's it?

Tatum with the worst game of his career, perhaps.  He didn't have it on offense nor defense.  Just one game, but it was this one.

50 rebounds, with Horford and Baynes with 10 each.  That is a ton of rebounds. Very nice to see considering how our rebounding has fallen off the table since the early games.

Rozier with 14 points on 5-9, 2-4 from 3, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and zero turnovers.  That's a nice box score and, what's more important, you could see how comfortable he was taking the mid-range 16-18' shot he was getting coming off a pick.  He can have that shot anytime he wants, he has to want it and not only want to shoot 3s or going to the rim, where he is not that great a finisher.  I'm thinking this might be Brad's influence.  He likes (loves) 3s and layups and isn't so hot on mid-range 2s and even cooler on shots from just inside the arc.  I think KG and his 19'er from 1' inside the arc would have driven Brad to distraction and drink.

Brad loves smallball.  Horford played 30 minutes but he's an extremely flexible big, a floor general big.  Other than him our starting center, Baynes, played just 23 minutes and our other big, Theis, played only 10 minutes even though he was 3-4 and had 3 rebounds in those 10 minutes.  Brad just likes small.  Makes you wonder if Danny will take Ayton or Bamba even if they can (or pull another Fultz/Tatum deal where they draft Ayton/Bamba or trade the pick that will take them and trade down again for additional assets).

17 TO is too many.  That's why this score was so close even though we shot 49%.  We do that against Cleveland and it might get ugly.  

I know Morris wants to start but he really needs to keep coming off the bench.  He's a scorer and our bench scoring is very streaky.  Last night it was Rozier's night but he just as easily have gone 2-9 as 5-9.  Larkin goes off but I don't think we want to hang our hats on Shane Larkin.  Nope, like it or not Mook, it's you.

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975285










bob



.

Mulcogiseng Happy New Year!!

Bob great post as usual....surprised you didn’t give me a tongue lashing for my comments on Smart LOL

I gotta say I’m really impressed with how Nets have rebuilt their team up to this point, considering all the picks we stole/got from them. If they can get anything out of Okafor, I don’t understand why their not playing him, he can’t be worse than Tyler Zeller?

cowens/oldschool wrote:I gotta say I’m really impressed with how Nets have rebuilt their team up to this point, considering all the picks we stole/got from them. If they can get anything out of Okafor, I don’t understand why their not playing him, he can’t be worse than Tyler Zeller?

They say Okafor`s not in game shape. Presumably working on his conditioning.

jrleftfoot wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:I gotta say I’m really impressed with how Nets have rebuilt their team up to this point, considering all the picks we stole/got from them. If they can get anything out of Okafor, I don’t understand why their not playing him, he can’t be worse than Tyler Zeller?

They say Okafor`s not in game shape. Presumably working on his conditioning.

Really if that’s true he’s pathetic, I don’t care how much PT he was getting. If your a professional athlete you have all the damn time in the world to condition and work on your craft....no wonder Danny didn’t try to snag him, he might be the next Sully the fat boy.

Bob have you been to Randazzos, it’s been there forever?

cowens/oldschool wrote:Bob have you been to Randazzos, it’s been there forever?

No, I have not.

Mission accomplished.  Celtics finish the year with a very improbable 30-10 record.  They finally reached 20 games over .500

To put this accomplishment into perspective, consider their record last year.  On March 22nd the Celtics beat Indiana and improved to 46-26 or 20 games over .500.  This years lofty record was anchored by the 16 game winning streak and although a few cracks have revealed themselves Boston has gone a respectable 14-8 since the streak while playing at a .636 clip.

This year has been characterized by tremendous upheaval.  Significant trades, free agent signings and surprising draft picks.  

Last night's game against the Nets was won because the Celtics are a better all around team.  My wish list for 2018 is based on what I have seen through 40 games.  Here are the things I would like to see improvement in.

#1  free throw shooting.  The Celtics are shooting free throws at an unacceptable rate of .764 compared to .807 last year.  Free throws are a difference maker.  I think it needs to be a source of emphasis.  Guys like Jaylen Brown need to practice at every opportunity and guys like Smart and Al Horford need to figure out why their free throw shooting is down year over year.

#2 is Pace.  I have been on a rant about this for some time now and I am sure you guys are sick of hearing this but the Celtics pace is consistent with an old half court team with slow players.  I blame coach Stevens for the pace because fast break uptempo basketball has to be a point of emphasis.  Stevens may not really understand this aspect of the game.  What bothers me is the propensity to dribble the ball up the court.  Secondly the notion that everybody should be able to rebound the ball and dribble up the court is a very stupid strategy.  

I remember a couple of years ago the Celtics thought that David Lee was a guy that could initiate the offense off of a defensive stop.  I see the very clumsy Al Horford dribbling the ball up the court.  Stevens should talk to Tommy and find out how to play fast break basketball.

#3  well you cannot run if you do not have the ball so Boston needs to work on reducing the number of turnovers per game.  You can expect some turnover issues to be directly associated with having a team with so many new players that are still leaning a new system and still learning more about their teammate.  But so many of the turnovers are just plan sloppy and have nothing to do with chemistry.  In particular, the dribble handoffs between the bigs and the guards, the ill advised and poorly executed bounce passes in the painted area, the stepping out of bounds turnovers, the thoughtless perimeter passes from side to side.  This issue is about improving fundamentals and do not require advanced skills.

#4 rebounding has been identified as a critical metric for winning and losing.  I see far too many tip in attempts on the offensive glass and far too many tap out attempts on the defensive glass.  The main perpetrator are Baynes and Theis and to a lesser degree Al Horford.  None of these guys are particularly gifted athletes and therefore a more fundamental rebounding protocol should be the norm.  Grab the rebound.  Guys (everyone) needs to find a man and block them out instead of standing  around and looking at shots going up.

#5 shot selection.  The 3 point shot has become the focal point for least resistance on this team.  Open shots are not necessarily good shots.  The Celtics have shown improvement in their 3 point shooting percentage year over year and are 8th in the NBA at 37.6% however there are some players on this team that are not good 3 point shooters yet they persists in bricking them up game after game.  There are times when taking a 3 point shot is very harmful and defies logic.  I saw a game a while back where Kyrie drove to the basketball and had a wide open layup but instead of making an uncontested 2 point shot he passed the ball out to the corner where a player was open for a 3 point shot.  The 3 point shot went in.  I guess that play turned out okay even though the odds were not.  It was Semi who took the corner 3.  Semi has not established himself as a reliable 3 point shooter.  The 3 point shot is vital to the Celtics offense and rightfully so however the Celtics need to get to the rim more and maybe pick up more fouls and offensive rebounding opportunities.

Wishing the best for Boston in 2018.  I have a feeling also that we are going to get the LAL pick.

dboss

Noel's game seems to fit the Celtics better than Okafor's. As long as it wouldn't cost much to get him, I'd do it. Having rim protectors is good. The last couple wins have had Baynes showing how much impact the dinosaur centers can still make. Sometimes he is a bit too slow or a bit over-matched by opponent speed. Noel would be a unique kind of big for Brad to work into a championship rotation.

Hopefully Rozier has turned the corner for shooting. I agree with Cowens it is late in the game for Smart to ever get better at shooting. He could ultimately be a bad fit because the Celtics' offense needs every player able to produce to keep the opponent honest and the motion offense to be effective. There's a reason why he is the one most often wide open. He is not Ray Allen running marathons within the court freeing himself up.

That is why Brad lets him keep shooting. It's how the offense works. But when the opponent is obviously handing him wide open shots, he needs to recognize that and stop acting like he is Ray or Tatum and stop making so many dumb turnovers.

It is a tricky situation because Smart is so good at defense. I thought he worked on shooting all Summer and it should have improved. I forget who was at the free throw line for the C's, but Jaylen was lined up in the rebounding slot air practicing free throws. Maybe he and Smart need psychology coaches. They are great guys and I am not saying they are head cases. But there is something going on in their brains holding them back.

Jaylen drains threes, yet looks pitiful for free throws. Smart sometimes look special for offense or that there is still untapped potential, but he keeps falling short. I think his problem is shot selection. It would have been an easy win yesterday if he had used more discretion. He had some early buckets that were in close and easier. I am very impressed for how Smart got into game shape. That is half the battle. Marcus Smart, as is, is seemingly still the most crucial spark plug.

A team needs four solid guards for a rotation. Brown's emergence has masked Smart's continual growing pains.

Then it's like what Cowens says, at what point can one give up on Marcus Smart as an offensive player? These are no longer his NBA baby years. Jaylen Brown as a free throw shooter looks fixable. Smart needs to improve as a player on offense. There's still time. He doesn't seem to be tossing up 3-14's or whatever as much lately.

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Bob have you been to Randazzos, it’s been there forever?

No, I have not.

Too bad, you must have avoided Brooklyn in your youth Lol

dboss wrote:Mission accomplished.  Celtics finish the year with a very improbable 30-10 record.  They finally reached 20 games over .500

To put this accomplishment into perspective, consider their record last year.  On March 22nd the Celtics beat Indiana and improved to 46-26 or 20 games over .500.  This years lofty record was anchored by the 16 game winning streak and although a few cracks have revealed themselves Boston has gone a respectable 14-8 since the streak while playing at a .636 clip.

This year has been characterized by tremendous upheaval.  Significant trades, free agent signings and surprising draft picks.  

Last night's game against the Nets was won because the Celtics are a better all around team.  My wish list for 2018 is based on what I have seen through 40 games.  Here are the things I would like to see improvement in.

#1  free throw shooting.  The Celtics are shooting free throws at an unacceptable rate of .764 compared to .807 last year.  Free throws are a difference maker.  I think it needs to be a source of emphasis.  Guys like Jaylen Brown need to practice at every opportunity and guys like Smart and Al Horford need to figure out why their free throw shooting is down year over year.

#2 is Pace.  I have been on a rant about this for some time now and I am sure you guys are sick of hearing this but the Celtics pace is consistent with an old half court team with slow players.  I blame coach Stevens for the pace because fast break uptempo basketball has to be a point of emphasis.  Stevens may not really understand this aspect of the game.  What bothers me is the propensity to dribble the ball up the court.  Secondly the notion that everybody should be able to rebound the ball and dribble up the court is a very stupid strategy.  

I remember a couple of years ago the Celtics thought that David Lee was a guy that could initiate the offense off of a defensive stop.  I see the very clumsy Al Horford dribbling the ball up the court.  Stevens should talk to Tommy and find out how to play fast break basketball.

#3  well you cannot run if you do not have the ball so Boston needs to work on reducing the number of turnovers per game.  You can expect some turnover issues to be directly associated with having a team with so many new players that are still leaning a new system and still learning more about their teammate.  But so many of the turnovers are just plan sloppy and have nothing to do with chemistry.  In particular, the dribble handoffs between the bigs and the guards, the ill advised and poorly executed bounce passes in the painted area, the stepping out of bounds turnovers, the thoughtless perimeter passes from side to side.  This issue is about improving fundamentals and do not require advanced skills.

#4 rebounding has been identified as a critical metric for winning and losing.  I see far too many tip in attempts on the offensive glass and far too many tap out attempts on the defensive glass.  The main perpetrator are Baynes and Theis and to a lesser degree Al Horford.  None of these guys are particularly gifted athletes and therefore a more fundamental rebounding protocol should be the norm.  Grab the rebound.  Guys (everyone) needs to find a man and block them out instead of standing  around and looking at shots going up.

#5 shot selection.  The 3 point shot has become the focal point for least resistance on this team.  Open shots are not necessarily good shots.  The Celtics have shown improvement in their 3 point shooting percentage year over year and are 8th in the NBA at 37.6% however there are some players on this team that are not good 3 point shooters yet they persists in bricking them up game after game.  There are times when taking a 3 point shot is very harmful and defies logic.  I saw a game a while back where Kyrie drove to the basketball and had a wide open layup but instead of making an uncontested 2 point shot he passed the ball out to the corner where a player was open for a 3 point shot.  The 3 point shot went in.  I guess that play turned out okay even though the odds were not.  It was Semi who took the corner 3.  Semi has not established himself as a reliable 3 point shooter.  The 3 point shot is vital to the Celtics offense and rightfully so however the Celtics need to get to the rim more and maybe pick up more fouls and offensive rebounding opportunities.

Wishing the best for Boston in 2018.  I have a feeling also that we are going to get the LAL pick.

dboss

dboss,

Excellent summation, touching on every major point.  

My additional thoughts:

1.  Not only is the Celtics' ft% down but their ftas are as well.  They average 21.5 ftas/game, good for 14th, this year but took 23.2 last year.  Even at their reduced ft% that would add an additional 1.3 points/game.  We are averaging 103.5ppg now.  Add 1.3ppg onto that and the resulting 104.8ppg average would move us from 21st to 16th.

2.  We are 21st in possessions/48 even though we have the 5th youngest team in the NBA.

3 & 4.  You cannot score without the ball and that means turnovers and rebounding.  We have gotten worse in both and our margins of victory have declined.

5.  In my opinion, we do not run too many pick-and-pops and not enough pick-and-rolls.  Theis is a great pnr player.  We've been having problems getting to our roll players because of poor spacing coming off the pick.  Perhaps these practice days will help (can't hurt).  We should remember an entire month has gone by since the Celtics had a practice day until just a day or two ago.  It has been almost all OJT (On the Job Training) for this team that has only 4 returning players on it.


Bill Doyle @BillDoyle15

yesterday

The 30-10 Celtics have won 30 games before Jan. 1 for the first time since the 1964-65 season when they used to play more games in October. They're the first NBA team to win 30 this season.
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In the Championship 2007-2008 year the Celtics were 20 games over .500 on 12/30/07, 1 day sooner than this year.  They had only played 29 games (their record was 26-3) while we have played 40 this year (39 as of 12/30).  This year's season started 16 days earlier (10/17 vs 11/2).  What does all this mean?  It means we are 20 games over .500 just one day later than a year we won a championship and played 14 more games.  That's less efficient (needed 14 more games to get there) but those 14 games were crammed into just over 2 additional weeks, far more grueling.  Without tempering this by looking at the competition we've played against so far, those 14 additional days in just 16 days is a testament to this team's athleticism and Brad's ability to keep them focused.  40 games in 77 days, so far.  The next 40 games will be played over 99 days.  HUGE difference.  HUGE.  More rest, more days to heal, more practice days.



bob


.

Bob 

Considering in the space of 9 of those 99 days we have But 1 game and considering the All star break of at least 4 if not 5 days knock of 15 days from that 99 and we still have a heavy schedule, albeit not as heavy as most other teams.  

We are spreading the minutes out pretty well  And that might mean some blown leads and an occasional loss but a loss during the season is meaningless when looking at the bigger picture.

I still don’t se 60 wins but we are indeed 1/2 way there in less than half the time.

beat

phil,

Who would you trade off the current roster or what draft picks would you want to lose for Noel?

Remember, at this time, Ainge would have to use the DPE to take him on. After the trade deadline, if Dallas waives him he could get signed for the vet minimum.

wideclyde wrote:phil,

Who would you trade off the current roster or what draft picks would you want to lose for Noel?

Remember, at this time, Ainge would have to use the DPE to take him on.  After the trade deadline, if Dallas waives him he could get signed for the vet minimum.

Nader plus a Boston first and a second, that type of move?

I like the idea of moving the Boston draft picks. They will be far down the draft order.

I like Yabusele and Semi for projects.

I also saw that Sully is putting up big numbers in China. If he is in reasonable shape, he would be another interesting option for Brad.

I just want some tinkering and insurance for Morris. Theis is still a young guy. I like him, but I'm not sure if he'll be ready for playoff basketball.

I remember the PJ Brown move. Without him, there was probably no 17th title. I think the C's are closer to Golden State than any other kind of analysis of bridge years or one more year to get to next year. Get two guys, a scorer maybe Lou Williams and a big perhaps Noel.

It doesn't have to be Nerlens Noel, but he is from Boston. He could be the PJ Brown of 2018 and the 18th title. The rich would get richer meaning the Boston Celtics. I am very confident in this year's team even without Hayward as long as there is health and stamina.