Re: Brown or Tatum?

by **dboss** Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:15 pm

I voted neither but I could have easily voted no.

I do not think the poll has any validity because you should not vote in the blind. Since it is very very very unlikely that Boston would be able to sustain 4 max contract players on the team all in the $30 million + range the poll cannot reasonably be answered.

Did anyone watch AD last night? He was unreal but he also has flaws. He cannot stretch the floor. Some well designed zone defenses could keep him out out of the lane. He is not and has never been a willing passer.

Back to Brown and Tatum. Watching Tatum earlier in the year I convinced myself that he was even better than Brown. Now I am less certain of that. I think both of them are still in the beginning stages of stardom. Their upside appears to be really high and since both are under rookie contracts their asset value or price/productivity is very favorable.

Davis has been in the league for 6 years and he has not won anything. NO loves him and I see no reason why they would part with him. The poll is academic in nature.

Obviously the premise behind this exercise acknowledges that Boston needs another quality big. The reality is that in order to acquire one, the Celtics would be forced to part with developing talent, perhaps draft picks and most and most assuredly a high priced front line starter.

The alternative seems more plausible. The Celtics will likely have at least 2 lottery level picks in the next 3 years. That means that Boston has an opportunity to find a big by drafting one. The Celtics DO NOT need Anthony Davis to win anything.

The other thing I want to point out is that the Celtics do not have too many wing players.

I predict that Brown, Tatum and Hayward will all be in the starting lineup. Tatum is a multi positional players and is being groom to become a stretch 4. He has already grown taller this year right before our eyes. He has already added some muscle and has the frame to get really strong. Jaylen has proven his positional value at the 2 and Hayward is the 3. What I see is that Tatum will be a 6' 9" stretch 4 with a long wingspan, ball handling skills, the ability to get to the rim, shoot form deep or midrange, pass to open cutters and lock down on defense.

I think it may take another year for him to grow into his body. Once that happens, look out. He will be unstoppable.

So no and/or neither seems like the logical answer to the poll.

Stay the freakin coarse.

by **swish** Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:13 pm

Given the chance to add an established superstar like Davis to a legitimate contender like the Celtics would be an opportunity that I would not pass on. A young player that is already a 2 time all nba player on both defense and overall - and a center to boot. I'd take "the Bird in the hand" now rather then waiting for the potential development of a future draft pick.

Add on note:Since Hayward is a close salary match he is the player that would be expendable in the trade. This should have been in my post.

swish

by **RosalieTCeltics** Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:24 pm

No thanks, I just cannot see them giving him away

by **dboss** Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:42 pm

swish wrote:Given the chance to add an established superstar like Davis to a legitimate contender like the Celtics would be an opportunity that I would not pass on. A young player that is already a 2 time all nba player on both defense and overall - and a center to boot. I'd take "the Bird in the hand" now rather then waiting for the potential development of a future draft pick.

Add on note:Since Hayward is a close salary match he is the player that would be expendable in the trade. This should have been in my post.

swish

. You would keep the J's and trade Hayward? As part of a pkg?

by **swish** Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:11 pm

dboss wrote:
swish wrote:Given the chance to add an established superstar like Davis to a legitimate contender like the Celtics would be an opportunity that I would not pass on. A young player that is already a 2 time all nba player on both defense and overall - and a center to boot. I'd take "the Bird in the hand" now rather then waiting for the potential development of a future draft pick.

Add on note:Since Hayward is a close salary match he is the player that would be expendable in the trade. This should have been in my post.

swish
. You would keep the J's and trade Hayward? As part of a pkg?

dboss

In a heartbeat - what ever it took within reason - What's wrong with a starting 5 of Davis at Center, Horford and Tatum at forward and Brown and Irving at Guard.

swish

by **dboss** Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:29 pm

swish wrote:
dboss wrote:
swish wrote:Given the chance to add an established superstar like Davis to a legitimate contender like the Celtics would be an opportunity that I would not pass on. A young player that is already a 2 time all nba player on both defense and overall - and a center to boot. I'd take "the Bird in the hand" now rather then waiting for the potential development of a future draft pick.

Add on note:Since Hayward is a close salary match he is the player that would be expendable in the trade. This should have been in my post.

swish
. You would keep the J's and trade Hayward? As part of a pkg?

dboss

In a heartbeat - what ever it took within reason - What's wrong with a starting 5 of Davis at Center, Horford and Tatum at forward and Brown and Irving at Guard.

swish

I think that would be a great roster. However Hayward is coming off an injury so this theoretical trade can't happen for a while. Say 2 years from now. The J's will be all grown up and if we keep Terry, he will be a beast. The Celtics have traded away young talent before. It seems this young talent is better

Danny struck gold back to back with Brown and Tatum.

by **dboss** Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:31 pm

And Terry at 16. Looking like a steal. A redo puts him in the top 5

by **NYCelt** Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:55 pm

swish wrote:
dboss wrote:
swish wrote:Given the chance to add an established superstar like Davis to a legitimate contender like the Celtics would be an opportunity that I would not pass on. A young player that is already a 2 time all nba player on both defense and overall - and a center to boot. I'd take "the Bird in the hand" now rather then waiting for the potential development of a future draft pick.

Add on note:Since Hayward is a close salary match he is the player that would be expendable in the trade. This should have been in my post.

swish
. You would keep the J's and trade Hayward? As part of a pkg?

dboss

In a heartbeat - what ever it took within reason - What's wrong with a starting 5 of Davis at Center, Horford and Tatum at forward and Brown and Irving at Guard.

swish

In theory...

Agreed.

We don't really need Hayward.

We need a couple of bigs.

I don't think Davis is going anywhere, however.

by **swish** Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:03 pm

NYCelt wrote:
swish wrote:
dboss wrote:
swish wrote:Given the chance to add an established superstar like Davis to a legitimate contender like the Celtics would be an opportunity that I would not pass on. A young player that is already a 2 time all nba player on both defense and overall - and a center to boot. I'd take "a Bird in the hand" now rather then waiting for the potential development of a future draft pick.

Add on note:Since Hayward is a close salary match he is the player that would be expendable in the trade. This should have been in my post.

swish
. You would keep the J's and trade Hayward? As part of a pkg?

dboss

In a heartbeat - what ever it took within reason - What's wrong with a starting 5 of Davis at Center, Horford and Tatum at forward and Brown and Irving at Guard.

swish

In theory...

Agreed.

We don't really need Hayward.

We need a couple of bigs.

I don't think Davis is going anywhere, however.

by **kdp59** Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:23 am

since this thread has moved off from the original post a bit, I will link a thread I started a few weeks back here.

https://samcelt.forumotion.net/t13845-would-you-trade-hayward-for-gobert-after-this-season

I still believe an argument can be made that it would be a great move long term for the Celtics.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:02 pm

kdp59 wrote:since this thread has moved off from the original post a bit, I will link a thread I started a few weeks back here.

https://samcelt.forumotion.net/t13845-would-you-trade-hayward-for-gobert-after-this-season

I still believe an argument can be made that it would be a great move long term for the Celtics.

I would do that trade in a heartbeat, but doubt Jazz would do it.

by **dboss** Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:13 pm

I would never trade an all around skilled player like Hayward for a center high price center with too many offensive holes in his game.

As we know the NBA has changed. While centers are important their value is now being measured by the diversity of skills that they have.

The Celtics have needs but least we forget they have been a top defensive team for a couple of years now. It is not like they are weak on defense and therefore the focus should be on adding a defensive big at the expense of parting with a multi-skilled wing.

The subject is like fantasy basketball. Danny guts out part of his roster to free up cap space to sign Hayward. He plays 5 minutes and here we are coming up with trade scenarios to get Gobert. Danny would never trade Hayward back to UTAH. The chances for that happening are so remote that they are not worth even discussing.

If the conversation was about moving Hayward for AD then I would be interested in the details. That is because Anthony Davis is a great player. Gobert is not close to being a great player.

At some point once the guys come back from injuries and we can get a true measure of this team it may possibly provide a higher degree of clarity.

by **swish** Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:45 pm

Huge, huge edge to Davis on the offensive side of the ball - a frequent and accurate shooter out to 16 feet. Outstanding versatility as a center and power forward. Gobert is a high quality player also - but not nearly as versatile. Shots in the 0 to 3 foot range are his strength.

swish

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:53 pm

dboss wrote:I would never trade an all around skilled player like Hayward for a center high price center with too many offensive holes in his game.

As we know the NBA has changed. While centers are important their value is now being measured by the diversity of skills that they have.

The Celtics have needs but least we forget they have been a top defensive team for a couple of years now. It is not like they are weak on defense and therefore the focus should be on adding a defensive big at the expense of parting with a multi-skilled wing.

The subject is like fantasy basketball. Danny guts out part of his roster to free up cap space to sign Hayward. He plays 5 minutes and here we are coming up with trade scenarios to get Gobert. Danny would never trade Hayward back to UTAH. The chances for that happening are so remote that they are not worth even discussing.

If the conversation was about moving Hayward for AD then I would be interested in the details. That is because Anthony Davis is a great player. Gobert is not close to being a great player.

At some point once the guys come back from injuries and we can get a true measure of this team it may possibly provide a higher degree of clarity.

All accurate points dboss, perhaps once we see this team next year with Hayward and Kyrie healthy, with so much firepower on offense, I know I’ll love that team. I was just thinking if we added such a defensive presence like Gobert, that we would have added a piece similar to us adding Bill Russell in the late 50’s to a great offensive team that needed a rim protector/defensive anchor....and that team with Gobert minus Hayward would have an even more incredible defense. History repeating itself in green....

by **dboss** Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:17 pm

Gorbert would make us even better defensively but then you lose Hayward along with his scoring acumen from all 3 stages along with his ball handling skills, rebounding and fit.

The Celtics only averaged 104 ppg and we witnessed many games where another high end player was needed to run the offense and score efficiently. Add Hayward into the mix and next year they are closer to 110 plus per game.

I honestly believe that given our future draft picks a center can be drafted that will be more than adequate.

I think the overwhelming considerstion is related to our cap situation. Danny signed 2 high price free agents and traded for another one over the past two years. Future trade opportunities can never be overlooked but I think Danny has done quite a bit to put together a team with a great starting 5 and a very solid rotation. At some point you keep those 7 or 8 guys together for an extended number of years and you win.

I think we still have at least 7 first round picks over the next 3 years. Knowing Danny he will continue to make deals to get more draft picks.

If Danny decided to pkg Rozier and a pick in a deal to strengthen the 4/5 spot he would end up drafting another PG down the road. I am not suggesting that they trade Terry but they have more than enough future draft picks to draft another point guard. In many respects the same could be said for Jaylen and Jason however those two were premier prospects that are only available at the top end of the draft.

I'm rambling at this point. I'll close by saying I love this team as currently configured.

by **kdp59** Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:50 am

shoot...I put this in another thread , thinking it was this one...duh!

sorry for the re post.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree that he is the Best player in the NBA right now.

but when I say that, what I mean is

If I were building a team he would be the first player I would pick to build around. Not only his play right now, but the fact that he is only 25 YO is a major factor for me also.

which is why NO would be crazy to consider trading him. Which brings to another train of thought:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/05/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare.html

now get ready for this one!

NO has a cap hold for the injured D. Cousins who is a UFA. His hold is around $27M , which puts NO in Tax territory.

in comes the Sign and trade rule.

NO resigns Cousins under the rules ( he will not get max anywhere coming off the injury), then trades him to Boston for Hayward (NO needs a high end SF).

now IF your head just didn't explode, I will finish.....

Celtics KEEP our young guns AND get a high end Big man in his prime (27YO) though coming off a major injury like Hayward.

Team is more balanced and ready to compete with a LeBron lead PHilly team now and in the future.

Starters:

Cousins
Horford
Tatum
Brown
Irving

Rotational players:
Smart- Resigned
Morris
Rozier
Theis
Semi

Deeper Bench:
Larkin- Resigned
Yabusele
Nader
Draft pick

Additional Vet minimum signing

BAM!

hows that for a Sunday morning brain scratchier.

Twisted Evil

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