Re: Celtics interested in Mo Bamba

by **worcester** Thu May 31, 2018 10:42 am

Ditto Rosalie. Ditto.

by **kdp59** Thu May 31, 2018 10:54 am

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I am saying A BIG NO to trading Hayward. This will never happen this year. What a slap in the face to a guy who took a big pay cut to sign here, got injured in the first five minutes, and has not played again.

I love the Celtics, but I would not respect this move, period. Have people forgotten just how good Hayward is?? Sorry, a big NO

what pay cut?

he took a max deal.

I agree it likely won't happen for a lot of reasons, but most were shocked that Danny traded IT too.

I think Tatum is greater than Hayward myself. But I understand some may not feel that way. in the end we will probably not keep Tatum, Brown and Hayward long term.

I was only pointing out here, that IF Danny wants a big man who can control the rim why not trade for the guy who Bamba has been compared to by many?

I have never been a huge fan of Hayward as a max player myself, but I know I am in the minority here...so there is that too.

by **NYCelt** Thu May 31, 2018 10:56 am

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I am saying A BIG NO to trading Hayward. This will never happen this year. What a slap in the face to a guy who took a big pay cut to sign here, got injured in the first five minutes, and has not played again.

I love the Celtics, but I would not respect this move, period. Have people forgotten just how good Hayward is?? Sorry, a big NO

Rosalie,

You're probably the most knowledgeable Celtic fan here, so as for the possibility of Hayward (and, of course, my opinion) I'll simply ask; would you have expected Isaiah Thomas to have been traded after what he did?

Again, this is strictly who I would part with. I have no idea or expectation on Danny, except that it seems nothing is off the table!

Regards

by **NESportsfan12** Thu May 31, 2018 10:57 am

kdp59 wrote:
RosalieTCeltics wrote:I am saying A BIG NO to trading Hayward. This will never happen this year. What a slap in the face to a guy who took a big pay cut to sign here, got injured in the first five minutes, and has not played again.

I love the Celtics, but I would not respect this move, period. Have people forgotten just how good Hayward is?? Sorry, a big NO

what pay cut?

he took a max deal.

I agree it likely won't happen for a lot of reasons, but most were shocked that Danny traded IT too.

I think Tatum is greater than Hayward myself. But I understand some may not feel that way. in the end we will probably not keep Tatum, Brown and Hayward long term.

I was only pointing out here, that IF Danny wants a big man who can control the rim why not trade for the guy who Bamba has been compared to by many?

I have never been a huge fan of Hayward as a max player myself, but I know I am in the minority here...so there is that too.

"In the end we will probably not keep Tatum, Brown, and Hayward long term"

I think it depends a lot on how strong Tatum can get. 2-3 years out, I think he could be a great small-ball 4. (He's already said that his primary goal is to get bigger and stronger.) That gives us a 2-4 that for about 5 years that can switch every position defensively, an all star point guard, and a quality, screen setting, rim protecting big. If that's the future, I see no reason to break them up. Maybe when Hayward hits 31 or 32, you try to cash him in before his value tanks. But I don't see doing it sooner.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Thu May 31, 2018 10:58 am

He took much less money to come to Boston, check the facts.......Sorry, nothing anyone says will convince me that Hayward should be traded. On top of that, Brad convinced him to come here, how do you think that would sit with him???????? His reputation would take a big hit if the guy he recruited got traded before he could actually show everyone how terrific he is.

I personally think this kind of talk is way out of whack
Danny will not make a trade like this, his rep is on the line too.

by **NYCelt** Thu May 31, 2018 11:02 am

kdp,

I do believe Bamba is going to be a real game changer. So yes, I'll go as far as to say transformative. I don't think many current NBA forwards are going to be able to handle his combination of length and flat out athleticism. I think both of those will more than compensate for his relatively light frame. Plus he's still growing and may fill out a little as he matures. I doubt he'll be a major scoring weapon, but from what I saw this past season, I think he's going to be one monster defender and he'll own the boards. Once he gets settled in, with a little time, nothing and no one is getting inside easily.

Regards

by **NYCelt** Thu May 31, 2018 11:09 am

NE,

Just my guess, but I think if we knew we would end up with both Tatum and Brown, and at their current level, I don't think we would have gone after Hayward at all. Guessing. So I'm with kdp in that I don't think we'll have all three long term. Yet another guess...If we do keep all three, it won't be for more than one season, to figure out which two stay.

All of this is dependent on one thing in my glimpse of the future; Hayward returning to form. There is no way to tell if he can ever be the same until he hits the floor again, and every other team certainly knows that too.

Enough guesses from me for now!

Regards

(BTW; Happy to see you around and posting more lately!)

by **swish** Thu May 31, 2018 11:11 am

NYCelt wrote:DO IT!

If at all possible. In my opinion, I'd give up any among Brown, Rozier, even Hayward if a package can be created that works. I'd give up pick 27, the Sacto pick, the Grizz pick, any one of those as well. Give 'em Mike and Tommy's court-side chairs and make those two sit on bar stools if you have to. And no, I haven't gone off my meds.

It will take a lot to get there; in some circles Bamba has been rumored to have the potential to go #1 ahead of Ayton. I don't think the Suns will do that, but I'd be surprised if he goes later than #3, #4 at the latest.

Bamba will be a transformative NBA player, with defensive and rebounding abilities beyond any big to hit the draft in a long time. Like some of the best players you can name at any position, he's got a deep intellect and studies his competition relentlessly. We're talking size, ability and smarts. Put him in there with Tatum, Irving and whoever you don't deal from the current roster, and start rigging the rafters at TD to hold more weight. Those banners are heavy when they pile up.

NYCelt

I'm with you on this one.
"If at all possible. In my opinion, I'd give up any among Brown, Rozier, even Hayward if a package can be created that works".

If the above is what Danny would be willing to part with - that's good enough for me - He's the expert just like Auerbach was when he made the Russell trade (a star for a draft pick).

swish

by **mulcogiseng** Thu May 31, 2018 11:19 am

NYCelt: You may not have gone off your meds but have you considered that perhaps you are not back from lunch yet? Shocked

Danny targeted the right member of the Jazz. Hayward moves the needle more than Gobert would, IMO.

What I found more interesting about this proposal was that my first reaction was that it would be immoral. Then I asked how could this be immoral if what happened to IT was good basketball. After reflection I've decided that neither are immoral, I just don't like the idea. For me, Hayward moves the needle more than Gobert.

I may not like your ideas on things like this kdp but I applaud your living out your fantasy of being an NBA GM! At least you take the time to think about things like this and you do the research to back up your opinions. Agree or disagree your posts usually make me think in a different way.

by **NESportsfan12** Thu May 31, 2018 11:21 am

NYCelt wrote:NE,

Just my guess, but I think if we knew we would end up with both Tatum and Brown, and at their current level, I don't think we would have gone after Hayward at all. Guessing. So I'm with kdp in that I don't think we'll have all three long term. Yet another guess...If we do keep all three, it won't be for more than one season, to figure out which two stay.

All of this is dependent on one thing in my glimpse of the future; Hayward returning to form. There is no way to tell if he can ever be the same until he hits the floor again, and every other team certainly knows that too.

Enough guesses from me for now!

Regards

(BTW; Happy to see you around and posting more lately!)

NY: Good to be back around more often. I've been on leave from teaching and so have had more time to obsess about all things celtics this year.

I wonder why you think that, though. If all three can start, why wouldn't we keep them around? What's the piece we're moving one of them for?

by **bobheckler** Thu May 31, 2018 11:47 am

kdp59 wrote:
RosalieTCeltics wrote:I am saying A BIG NO to trading Hayward. This will never happen this year. What a slap in the face to a guy who took a big pay cut to sign here, got injured in the first five minutes, and has not played again.

I love the Celtics, but I would not respect this move, period. Have people forgotten just how good Hayward is?? Sorry, a big NO

what pay cut?

he took a max deal.

I agree it likely won't happen for a lot of reasons, but most were shocked that Danny traded IT too.

I think Tatum is greater than Hayward myself. But I understand some may not feel that way. in the end we will probably not keep Tatum, Brown and Hayward long term.

I was only pointing out here, that IF Danny wants a big man who can control the rim why not trade for the guy who Bamba has been compared to by many?

I have never been a huge fan of Hayward as a max player myself, but I know I am in the minority here...so there is that too.

kdp,

Hayward got the max offer he could get from a team that didn't own his Bird Rights. Furthermore, by signing with Boston the longest contract he could sign was 4 years. Utah could have, and did, offer him a 5 year deal.

Here's an excerpt from a writer for the Palm Beach Post who discussed, last year during the bidding period, what the differences were between what the 3 teams Hayward was looking at (Utah, Boston, Miami) were offering:

"Under the $99 million salary cap, the Heat and Celtics are eligible to offer Hayward a max contract worth $127.8 million over four seasons — a deal that includes a 2017-18 salary of $29.7 million and 5 percent raises. The Jazz are eligible to offer Hayward a max contract worth $172.4 million over five years — a deal that includes a 2017-18 salary of $29.7 million and 8 percent raises."

So, not only could Hayward lock in his max contract for an additional year by staying in Utah, he also was eligible for larger annual raises. 3% of the base $29.7M is almost $900k. That's how much more he would have made staying in Utah in his 2nd contract year because of the higher annual raise %. That number goes up because it would be 3% more on each year so, for example, his raise between years 2 & 3 would be about $960K more than he could have made in Boston or Miami, etc.

bob

.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Thu May 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Thanks Bob. Whether you agree or disagree with the rest of the post, I feel it is a huge slap in the face to a guy who gave up alot to be here.

NYCelt...you asked if I ever though Thomas would be traded? By the end of the year, and the number of interviews I saw about the Brinks truck, disregarding his hip injury, I felt Thomas was backing himself into a corner I loved the kid, admired what he did here, but I was definitely aware of the fact that Kyrie was above him in talent.

There is so much to be said for being able to pull the trigger the way Danny has, and then there is a moral compass that has to guide him also. I feel management might step in the way of any trade here.
It is just the way I feel, plus, Gordon Hayward is the player I have been praying for for this team, one that can come in and hit those shots during a period where
there is a gap in our offense. Just my opinion, that is all

by **NYCelt** Thu May 31, 2018 12:06 pm

NE,

What I'm thinking is we would be moving one of the three for our twin missing link and weakness; interior defense and rebounding. While I wouldn't go as far as to say all three are redundant of each other, I think there is a lot of overlap and we would be an improved team minus one of them and plus a strong interior presence on defense. Of the three I think Tatum is the most valuable long-term so I'd be willing to part with one of the other two. I'm also concerned that Hayward could be a permanently compromised player. I don't want to seem cold, but he's the one I'd move if there was interest. In large part for that reason. As Don Vito would say, "it's just business."

Regards

by **NYCelt** Thu May 31, 2018 12:08 pm

Rosalie,

I understand your thinking. I suppose a moral compass still has value too. It should! (Despite my Don Vito Corleone comment above)

Regards

by **NESportsfan12** Thu May 31, 2018 12:10 pm

NYCelt wrote:NE,

What I'm thinking is we would be moving one of the three for our twin missing link and weakness; interior defense and rebounding. While I wouldn't go as far as to say all three are redundant of each other, I think there is a lot of overlap and we would be an improved team minus one of them and plus a strong interior presence on defense. Of the three I think Tatum is the most valuable long-term so I'd be willing to part with one of the other two. I'm also concerned that Hayward could be a permanently compromised player. I don't want to seem cold, but he's the one I'd move if there was interest. In large part for that reason. As Don Vito would say, "it's just business."

Regards

Gotcha. We'll have to see on Hayward's health. But he won't have high value until he proves that he makes a Paul George style return. (I predict that he will.)

I agree about the need at the center position. But if we could fill that in the draft by trading Rozier and picks to get Bamba, why not keep the team together? Seems like we give up a lot less, and, anyway, while I agree that we need rebounding and rim protection, it's not clear that we need the offense dragged down by having a scoring center who can't shoot (like Gobert). Bamba gets the rim protecting done, has shown floor stretching-ability, and fits well with the team's timeline.

by **kdp59** Thu May 31, 2018 12:32 pm

thanks Bob,

I should have remembered the CBA rules for a player resigning with his own team and I stand corrected on Hayward taking less money to sign here instead of Utah.

I won't argue these ideas are the right way most times, as they are only ideas that pop in my head while reading.

Like i said some are better than others for sure.

I am surprised that some are willing to give up Brown or even Hayward for a draft pick though. Especially a guy who I have seen no one say is the next, Jordan, LeBron, Bird or Russell.

perhaps Bamba is that type of player, but if he becomes that, most will have missed that upside on him to date anyway.

by **gyso** Thu May 31, 2018 12:44 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:He took much less money to come to Boston, check the facts.......Sorry, nothing anyone says will convince me that Hayward should be traded. On top of that, Brad convinced him to come here, how do you think that would sit with him???????? His reputation would take a big hit if the guy he recruited got traded before he could actually show everyone how terrific he is.

I personally think this kind of talk is way out of whack
Danny will not make a trade like this, his rep is on the line too.

Rosalie,

You are right about the pay cut. A max deal with your original team uses Bird Rights, can go five years and I believe the raises are capped at 8%. A max deal with a different team can go four years and I believe the raises are capped at 5%.

I may be off a bit, but the differences for Hayward meant millions.

gyso

by **gyso** Thu May 31, 2018 12:52 pm

One issue with Bamba that I have read is that he has a poor "motor". I hope that doesn't lead to him being a passive player. We had that with Jeff Green. Great physical presence, yet too inconsistent game to game.

That's the difference between a good player and a great player.

Just food for thought.

gyso

by **NESportsfan12** Thu May 31, 2018 12:53 pm

gyso wrote:One issue with Bamba that I have read is that he has a poor "motor". I hope that doesn't lead to him being a passive player. We had that with Jeff Green. Great physical presence, yet too inconsistent game to game.

That's the difference between a good player and a great player.

Just food for thought.

gyso

Interesting. What exactly does that mean?

(I certainly don't want another Jeff Green. Yikes.)

by **gyso** Thu May 31, 2018 1:11 pm

If you read the nbadraft.net post by kdp on the first page of this thread, look at the section about his weaknesses. It mentions him being passive and it also says he could be more aggressive.

There is more down below that speaks to his lack of aggressiveness on both offense and defense.

He is a very big guy, has a nice looking shot and can be expected to clean up in the paint, given time. We have time, so there is that.

I think it would be worth Rozier plus all the draft picks to get him. I say no to trading anyone else.

gyso

by **NESportsfan12** Thu May 31, 2018 1:14 pm

gyso wrote:If you read the nbadraft.net post by kdp on the first page of this thread, look at the section about his weaknesses. It mentions him being passive and it also says he could be more aggressive.

There is more down below that speaks to his lack of aggressiveness on both offense and defense.

He is a very big guy, has a nice looking shot and can be expected to clean up in the paint, given time. We have time, so there is that.

I think it would be worth Rozier plus all the draft picks to get him. I say no to trading anyone else.

gyso

Ah, good, I'll check that post out. There's also this http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mohamed-Bamba-91224/ , which echoes the concern.

We're of one mind on what it's worth to give up.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Thu May 31, 2018 2:01 pm

I thought I heard a while ago from Mannix that Orlando was interested in Rozier, I wonder if they still are

by **bobheckler** Thu May 31, 2018 2:53 pm

Mark Murphy
Mark Murphy
@Murf56
League source on Celtics' reported interest in moving up to draft Mo Bamba: "Don't waste your time on that one."
10:20 AM · May 31, 2018

bob
MY NOTE: Proving, once again, that any rumor you see/hear involving Danny Ainge should be ignored until after the body had been recovered, identified and the DNA evidence taken from it has been independently verified as Danny's.

.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Thu May 31, 2018 3:03 pm

Thank You my friend!!! I am done with this topic!!

by **Shamrock1000** Thu May 31, 2018 3:27 pm

Hayward took the max that any team that is NOT Utah could offer him. As well he should. A player should earn as much as he can for his family - but it's not like he gave the Celtics a discount. So I don't think KDP's post was entirely incorrect, it was just a different understanding of what Rosalie meant by "he took less to come here". That statement sounded a little like he gave the Celtics a discount.

Personally, I think all players should get as much money as possible for themselves and their families, so I don't fault anyone for wanting the Brinks truck backed up.

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