summer theme 2019

by **wideclyde** Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:51 am

With the Cs success last year this summer has to be a time to make a serious decision about how badly our team wants to win banner #18 NEXT season.

Since Coach Stevens has arrived everything Ainge has done has been to build a deeper and deeper roster while Stevens molded these players into a better team.
Both guys have been very successful in their jobs as the Cs now have an excellent starting lineup (Hayward and Irving healthy) and some good guys (Rozier and Smart, etc) coming off the bench.

It is my thought that this summer season is all about adding better depth to the team. Last season (our best since Stevens arrived, in my opinion) we had some quality depth but not enough of it. Larkin worked hard and helped out, but was too weak in some ways in every game he played. Theis got his NBA feet on the ground around mid season, but unfortunately got hurt at the end of the year. Monroe was signed, but never found a niche as he failed to be able to play good enough defense. Guys like Yabusele, Nader, Bird, Allen, etc may have promise but none could really help in the tough/close games. Morris did some really good things most of the time, but seemed to do even more when called upon to start games in the latter part of the year when the injuries piled up. Baynes was super in the second half of the season and the playoffs, but is currently an unrestricted free agent and may or may not return.

Of course, injuries can always happen which force some guys to sit, but also yield for additional playing opportunities for others like last year. If the Cs decide to make this season the year for #18, I feel that more depth is needed to better cover for injuries or slumps.

Wanamaker may help (at least he looks good on tape while in Europe), Baynes and Smart hopefully return, Theis should be healthy and if so more able to help much earlier in his second NBA season. Morris should still be the tough guy he was in 2018, etc, etc. But, it now be time to build the team's depth to where it should not be necessary to hunt for a Monroe type replacement at the next trading deadline. Williams may or may not be ready to contribute this season so another center type may still be necessary along with another perimeter shooter.

A good team shooting for a championship can never have enough quality depth.

by **dboss** Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:51 pm

Wyde I tend to disagree with you about the depth issue

I think Danny has been on a mission to upgrade their starting 5 and upgrade their rotation.

You cannot overlook the injury factor. At some point injuries to high profile players will impact a team no matter how deep they are. Throw in injuries to a couple of rotation players and no team can overcome those losses.

The Celtics goal is to win #18. I do not get what you mean by serious decision.

What would you have them do at this point. What should they do to add more quality depth that they have not already done?

by **wideclyde** Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:08 pm

dboss,

I understand that Ainge has worked to increase the talent level every year, but do not think that any of the previous three years were thought to be years in which he thought that there was a real legitimate chance to win number 18. And, he probably was well right in such thinking and as such he "hoped" that some guys may have been able to help win a championship. Guys like Baynes, Morris and Theis turned out to be nice additions while Brown, Tatum and Rozier showed (unexpected?) dramatic improvements, but other guys on the roster were not fully up to being able to make the necessary contributions (Larkin, Monroe, Yabusele, Nader, etc) when needed.

But, now, I fully believe that there is enough talent and experience (and coaching) to win number 18 next June if there is enough quality depth to surround the three star players, Smart, the additional guys who proved to be more than just "depth guys/unproven guys" (Brown, Rozier, Tatum, Baynes, Morris and Theis) from the beginning of last season as all now have a full year and a deep run in the playoffs together to be more prepared for a championship run. I would like to see the depth in place at the beginning of the season rather than have to go out and search for it in mid February so that the entire team can be together all year long.

To this I think that another rebounding/defending center (perhaps Howard?) to replace Monroe, another sub point guard to replace Larkin and another perimeter shooter to replace either Nader or Yabusele are needed along with at least reasonable play from Williams.

I do realize that the salary cap is a potential huge obstacle, but just settling for young guys to sit on the bench does not make us deep enough to win a championship because injuries and slumps can happen at any time.

As some old football guy from Oakland said more than once, "The future is now!"

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:54 pm

Don’t understand this post, we have a deep young talented roster with pieces all on the upside. In the draft we lucked out and got an above the rim potential defensive/rebounding stud to add depth to the frontline, sure some players didn’t contribute as much as we would have liked, but our backcourt and wings have so much talent and depth, we are the envy of the league. With the return of Kyrie and Hayward we will have firepower and depth to spare, we should do nothing with the core except keep it, keep it healthy and keep developing it and we will be very dominant with what we have. Who has better wings than us? Who has a better backcourt than us? Our 4-5 has been upgraded with depth with the rook, we have a roster fully loaded right now, that will be great for years.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:03 pm

Hope we can rid of Morris, he’s a tough guy? Really...??? I don’t see him or Monroe getting any playing time if they are back next year.

by **dboss** Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:11 pm

I think Boston has enough talent and depth to win now even if they do not add anyone else. If they can keep Smart our defense will be better since adding Williams and our offense will be better with Irving and Hayward returning. I also expect guys like Rozier, Brown and Tatum to be even better. Baynes returning will help solidify the frontcourt.

Boston was tied for 7th in rebounding this year. GS and Houston were tied at 17th and Cleveland was 23rd. While we would like to see improvement in rebounding it seems hardly an issue.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/rebounds-per-game/sort/avgRebounds/seasontype/2

Larkin and Nader are end of the bench guys. Upgrading them is a low level priority although neither of them appear to be long term keepers. Yabu is still very young and inexperienced.

You know every team will have some players that are in a developmental stage.

The Celtics have a very young and inexperienced roster.

The upside for this team looks pretty damn good to me. I think the team is completely rebuilt and ready to challenge.

First round pick Williams may check two boxes (rebounding and defense)

I think Ainge understands fully what he has. He has been on a mission to rebuild this team in 5 years. He did not even expect this team to be this good during the rebuild. Nobody did.

Danny kept his powder dry and is still loaded with first round picks. He will use those picks to improve the team where he sees a need and an opportunity.

by **Ktronic1** Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:53 am

dboss wrote:I think Boston has enough talent and depth to win now even if they do not add anyone else. If they can keep Smart our defense will be better since adding Williams and our offense will be better with Irving and Hayward returning. I also expect guys like Rozier, Brown and Tatum to be even better. Baynes returning will help solidify the frontcourt.

Boston was tied for 7th in rebounding this year. GS and Houston were tied at 17th and Cleveland was 23rd. While we would like to see improvement in rebounding it seems hardly an issue.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/rebounds-per-game/sort/avgRebounds/seasontype/2

Larkin and Nader are end of the bench guys. Upgrading them is a low level priority although neither of them appear to be long term keepers. Yabu is still very young and inexperienced.

You know every team will have some players that are in a developmental stage.

The Celtics have a very young and inexperienced roster.

The upside for this team looks pretty damn good to me. I think the team is completely rebuilt and ready to challenge.

First round pick Williams may check two boxes (rebounding and defense)

I think Ainge understands fully what he has. He has been on a mission to rebuild this team in 5 years. He did not even expect this team to be this good during the rebuild. Nobody did.

Danny kept his powder dry and is still loaded with first round picks. He will use those picks to improve the team where he sees a need and an opportunity.

New post by dboss Yesterday at 20:11

“I think Boston has enough talent and depth to win now even if they do not add anyone else.”

Let me make sure I understand. So you’re saying that the Celts as constituted right now can beat Golden State?

by **sinus007** Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:06 am

Ktronic1,
I'm not Dboss but I'm of the same opinion: Celtics, as currently constructed, can take on GSW and have a good chance to beat them.
Obviously, we're talking about healthy crew of KI, JB, GH, JT, MS (hopefully Danny signs him on), AH, TR, AB, MM and DT.

AK

by **kdp59** Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:33 am

we have a better chance than any other team in the NBA right now, IMO.

by **Shamrock1000** Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:45 am

Seems to me that depth is already one of our strengths: Kyrie, Jaylen, Gordon, Jayson, Al, Smart, Rozier, Morris, Baynes, Theis. That is 10 starting caliber players (maybe Theis is a stretch for a starter - haven't seen enough of him). The new kid might also give us some servicable minutes. Why would we invest money on end of the bench guys who will see limited minutes? Yabu and Semi were rookies last year, on cheap contracts, who will likely improve. If we are still behind the warriors it is because their best players are better than our best players, not because they have more depth. I would even argue that our best chance of beating them comes from our current depth.

by **mulcogiseng** Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:48 am

Here we go again. This isn't the first conversation that we have had as to whether or not this edition of the Boston Celtics was legit. We had conversations last summer. We had conversations last fall. We had conversations throughout the season and we continued that conversation during the playoffs.

Everyone who said this team wasn't legit needs to fess up and apologise to those of us who consistently maintained that this was a legit team. I know many of you have an extremely green goggled view of just how much you know about the game. Get over yourselves. You don't!

Anyone who doesn't believe that Danny Ainge didn't believe in his teams chances last year...well there just isn't anything convivial to say.

I've held back all season long. I let things play out. There were times I was so pissed off at things Celtics "fans" were saying that I would write one blast after another, and then delete them. Anyone who remembers me on BDC knows what low levels I am capable of.

This was a legit team that came within one win of the Finals. How much do you guys really know? Do you know that if little Shane Larkin had been able to play the C's would have beaten the LeBrons? You can challenge this. You can say Shane isn't any good and didn't make any real contributions. You would be just as wrong then as saying this team wasn't legit.

Danny went all in last year to win #18. He only brought back 4 players from the team that went to the ECF's. The Kyrie trade proves that. One game from the Finals proves that this team was legit.

Now that I've gotten that off my chest I feel better.

ps Have I mentioned lately that I think Bill Russell is the GOAT? Twisted Evil

by **Shamrock1000** Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:58 am

mulcogiseng wrote:Here we go again. This isn't the first conversation that we have had as to whether or not this edition of the Boston Celtics was legit. We had conversations last summer. We had conversations last fall. We had conversations throughout the season and we continued that conversation during the playoffs.

Everyone who said this team wasn't legit needs to fess up and apologise to those of us who consistently maintained that this was a legit team. I know many of you have an extremely green goggled view of just how much you know about the game. Get over yourselves. You don't!

Anyone who doesn't believe that Danny Ainge didn't believe in his teams chances last year...well there just isn't anything convivial to say.

I've held back all season long. I let things play out. There were times I was so pissed off at things Celtics "fans" were saying that I would write one blast after another, and then delete them. Anyone who remembers me on BDC knows what low levels I am capable of.

This was a legit team that came within one win of the Finals. How much do you guys really know? Do you know that if little Shane Larkin had been able to play the C's would have beaten the LeBrons? You can challenge this. You can say Shane isn't any good and didn't make any real contributions. You would be just as wrong then as saying this team wasn't legit.

Danny went all in last year to win #18. He only brought back 4 players from the team that went to the ECF's. The Kyrie trade proves that. One game from the Finals proves that this team was legit.

Now that I've gotten that off my chest I feel better.

ps Have I mentioned lately that I think Bill Russell is the GOAT?

I always think every Celtics team is legit, so I am with you. But.... the fact that they decided to shut down Kyrie does suggest that Danny didn't expect this team to get as close as they did. Maybe the less green-goggled fans should be cut some slack.

If Gordon had stayed healthy and the Celtics were playing well, I bet they would have waited until the offseason to address Kyrie's knee. It sounded like it was something that would eventually need to be dealt with, but was not necessarily urgent; I suspect they chose to shut him down early to ensure he would be ready for this season.

by **dboss** Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:06 am

Years from now we are going to look back at what the 2017-18 team accomplished and shake our collective heads in amazement. I really believed we were going to beat Cleveland.

I am convinced that no team in the NBA could lose two allstar caliber players plus two key rotation guys and still compete like they did.

Fast forward to the upcoming season and our expectations are sky high. Top to bottom, the Celtics have as much talent as any team.

We have the best coach in the NBA because he is able to cash in a nickle for every penny. Our wing depth is the envy of a lot of teams. Our point guard depth is dynamic. Our frontcourt depth has finally added a rim protector and rebounder. All the pieces are in place to win this year.

The injury factor can alter a lot of things. If the team is not decimated by injuries like they were this year, Boston has an excellent opportunity to beat whoever they face.

Yes I believe they are rebuilt right now to compete and Danny will continue to change out a part or two as needed but the profile of this team has been established with the right players to make it work right now.

by **NYCelt** Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:16 am

dboss wrote:Years from now we are going to look back at what the 2017-18 team accomplished and shake our collective heads in amazement. I really believed we were going to beat Cleveland.

I am convinced that no team in the NBA could lose two allstar caliber players plus two key rotation guys and still compete like they did.

Fast forward to the upcoming season and our expectations are sky high. Top to bottom, the Celtics have as much talent as any team.

We have the best coach in the NBA because he is able to cash in a nickle for every penny. Our wing depth is the envy of a lot of teams. Our point guard depth is dynamic. Our frontcourt depth has finally added a rim protector and rebounder. All the pieces are in place to win this year.

The injury factor can alter a lot of things. If the team is not decimated by injuries like they were this year, Boston has an excellent opportunity to beat whoever they face.

Yes I believe they are rebuilt right now to compete and Danny will continue to change out a part or two as needed but the profile of this team has been established with the right players to make it work right now.

Agree

by **dboss** Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:20 am

Rock

I do not think Boston would have avoided shutting Kyrie down if they thought they were going this far.

The issue with his knee was not revealed to us until that article came out about him threatening to have surgery if Cleveland did not trade him Not sure if that is true but it was at that point we heard there was an issue that likely would require surgery.

It would have been unconscionable for Danny to compromise the health and well being of his star player. Apparently they have managed the knee issue throughout the season. If you recall the wire was going to be removed and he was supposed to be back for the playoffs. Remember? Then once they got in there they identified the infection and had to remove the screws. That is when they shut him down. No one knew about the infection. Once the screws were removed the holes left have to heal or he could shatter the kneecap.

Danny is as ruthless as they come but no way he would do what you have suggested.

by **Shamrock1000** Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:30 am

dboss wrote:Rock

I do not think Boston would have avoided shutting Kyrie down if they thought they were going this far.

The issue with his knee was not revealed to us until that article came out about him threatening to have surgery if Cleveland did not trade him Not sure if that is true but it was at that point we heard there was an issue that likely would require surgery.

It would have been unconscionable for Danny to compromise the health and well being of his star player. Apparently they have managed the knee issue throughout the season. If you recall the wire was going to be removed and he was supposed to be back for the playoffs. Remember? Then once they got in there they identified the infection and had to remove the screws. That is when they shut him down. No one knew about the infection. Once the screws were removed the holes left have to heal or he could shatter the kneecap.

Danny is as ruthless as they come but no way he would do what you have suggested.

Dboss - sorry, I wasn't clear. In no way do I think that Danny would ever jeopardize a player's health. I totally agree that is not his nature. My thinking was that the Celtics surely knew about the knee when they made the trade, long before that article ever came out. As you said, they then managed the knee most of the season, which led me to believe that it was not something urgent. As you said, Danny wouldn't do that to a player - nor would he risk his investment. I forgot about the fact that he was initially supposed to come back, that is a good point. Still, when they initially shut him down for the operation, from which he was supposed to return, they were still in the mix for the number one seed. The fact that Danny decided to get the operation at that point suggests that he was willing to concede playoff positioning, which suggests he was not convinced this was the year.

As I write this, I realize I hand waiving pretty hard... Really, none of us know what is in Danny's mind... but thanks for the correction.

by **dboss** Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:57 am

Rock, not to be overly argumentative with you, the Celtics were not going to catch Toronto. They were pretty much locked into the 2nd seed. At that point in the season I do not see how playoff positioning factored into the equation

Danny is a lot of things but he is not a Dr. The recommendation to shut him down for the year had to come from the medical staff.

The original thought was that he would come back.

The great thing is that the knee should be completely healed and he is going to start basketball activities real soon.

Think about this for a minute. Irving played with a sore knee all year.

Can we begin to imagine how good he will be now?

by **Shamrock1000** Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:15 pm

No offense taken dboss - truth is the most important thing, and if I am wrong about something, which it looks like I might be here, then I welcome corrections. Long live conviviality.

by **dboss** Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:27 pm

Rock

we are a couple of lucky fans to have a team like this.

by **worcester** Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:36 pm

We are lucky fans to have a website like this with friends who respect each other. I also frequented my college website where alumni from one of the most elite schools in the nation share views on diverse topics. The level of antagonism, rudeness, viciously personal ad hominem attacks, and downright incivility there towards others who expressed differing views astounded me, which is why I went AWOL. Smart people can be very arrogant and profoundly stupid when it comes to what really matters in life - being kind and loving to one another.

Regarding Kyrie, once the screw holes proved to be infected, there was no alternative but to shut him down and let the knee heal. Danny had faith that we could/would go far, perhaps more faith then the rest of us. After all, he talks with Brad regularly and knows more than we do how motivated and talented these Celtics are. Last season's play represented one of the best Celtic team efforts I have ever seen. I have never been prouder of a group of young men.
#18 next season baby. #18.

by **Shamrock1000** Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:50 pm

worcester wrote:We are lucky fans to have a website like this with friends who respect each other. I also frequented my college website where alumni from one of the most elite schools in the nation share views on diverse topics. The level of antagonism, rudeness, viciously personal ad hominem attacks, and downright incivility there towards others who expressed differing views astounded me, which is why I went AWOL. Smart people can be very arrogant and profoundly stupid when it comes to what really matters in life - being kind and loving to one another.

Regarding Kyrie, once the screw holes proved to be infected, there was no alternative but to shut him down and let the knee heal. Danny had faith that we could/would go far, perhaps more faith then the rest of us. After all, he talks with Brad regularly and knows more than we do how motivated and talented these Celtics are. Last season's play represented one of the best Celtic team efforts I have ever seen. I have never been prouder of a group of young men.
#18 next season baby. #18.

I used to enjoy reading comments after news articles published online, but I can't do it anymore - the conversation has devolved to pure nastiness. The internet is turning into a sink collecting all the negative aspects of humanity. Hence, this board represents a pleasent reprieve from the stubborn tribalism that dominates most online forums.

I have a couple of questions for you Dr. Worcester. It was never clear to me whether the infection occured during the original procedure, or if it occured when they opened him up again to remove the wire. Second, do infections like this result from non-sterile materials (e.g. screws) or from less sterile operating rooms? Not trying to blame anyone, just curious.

by **worcester** Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:33 pm

Shamrock, the infection could have occurred during the original procedure or when they just opened him up. No way to tell from here. The screws were probably sterile, and I doubt there were two or more unsterile screws. There could have been a problem in the OR. MRSA is so prevalent in many hospital environments. The only places more toxic are the comment sections after internet articles. It's lucky Kyrie didn't come down with that nightmare, MRSA. I had a dental implant go bad after seven years in my mouth. Who knows why or how it got infected in such an isolated spot after having been on antibiotics during the implant process. It's life. Scata happens. Kyrie will be better than ever next year. I really look forward to his play, especially with the middle opening up for him to penetrate more easily with Horford, Tatum, Brown, and Hayward spreading the floor.

by **Ktronic1** Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:23 pm

sinus007 wrote:Ktronic1,
I'm not Dboss but I'm of the same opinion: Celtics, as currently constructed, can take on GSW and have a good chance to beat them.
Obviously, we're talking about healthy crew of KI, JB, GH, JT, MS (hopefully Danny signs him on), AH, TR, AB, MM and DT.

AK

I would be happy as a pig in slop if we beat Golden State with this very team. I just don’t think we are there yet. Close? Yes.

by **sinus007** Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:36 am

Ktronic1 wrote:
sinus007 wrote:Ktronic1,
I'm not Dboss but I'm of the same opinion: Celtics, as currently constructed, can take on GSW and have a good chance to beat them.
Obviously, we're talking about healthy crew of KI, JB, GH, JT, MS (hopefully Danny signs him on), AH, TR, AB, MM and DT.

AK

I would be happy as a pig in slop if we beat Golden State with this very team. I just don’t think we are there yet. Close? Yes.

Ktronic1,
What do you mean by "close"?

AK

by **worcester** Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:27 am

What do you mean by this very team? Fully staffed with AH, GH, KI, JT, JB, AB, RW, Theis, Wanamaker, Jabari, Semi, Marcus Smart, Marcus Morris, Yabu, and the replacement for Nader?
I think those guys could beat GSW. I really do. Give Yabu, Jabari, Wanamaker, and RW summer league and 82 games under their belts, and you'll see a more robust, seasoned, professional complement to our present core who can spell the starters enough as needed so they, the starters, can Woop Woop on the Warriors with energy in crunch time. Somehow, though, I doubt that will be our lineup come October.

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