I'VE GOT TO WEIGH IN!

HI AGAIN. I HAVE NOT BEEN POSTING RECENTLY AS I WAS A LITTLE SUPERSTITIOUS WITH THEM WINNING, BUT I HAVE TO WEIGH IN NOW. HOWARD AKA SUPERMAN HAS TAKEN HIS GAME TO A NEW LOW AND HAS BECOME A VERY DIRTY PLAYER. PERHAPS HE SOULD BE RIGHTFULLY NICK NAMED "THE HATCHT MAN". THE LEAGUE AND THE REF'S ARE BLIND TO THE FACT THAT HE IS WAY TOO LIBERAL WITH HIS ELBOWS AND OVER ZELOUS FOULS WHERE THEY ARE MADE WITH INTENT TO INJURE. TONIGHT WAS A GOOD CASE IN POINT OF THAT AND THE FACT "STERN BOY' MUST OF PUT THE WORD OUT THAT THE LEAGUE NEEDED THIS SERIES TO GO 6 OR 7 FOR MORE LEAGUE REVENUE. THE NBA IS A JOKE!

THE CELTICS NEED TO GO INTO BOSTON FRIDAY AND LET ORLANDO GET A TASTE OF THE "RED AUERBACK"
PARQUE FLOOR, JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH LEAVELAND. GOT TO PLAY HARD NOSE BASKETBALL FOR ONE GAME! THEY HAVE TO STRAIGHT AFTER HOWARD OFFENSIVELY ALL NIGHT AND LET THE FOULS BEGIN! THE CELTICS GOT AWAY FROM OFFENSIVE REBOUNDING AND GETTING THEIR NOSE DIRTY IN THE PAINT.

112288

Completely agree.

Disgraceful job of officiating. Ed Rush SHOULD NOT be officiating in the playoffs. Guy is a total shithead.

Perk will have his technicals rescinded. But you can not take back the concussion Baby sustained at the hands of Howard - or the bullshit way the game was called all night.

I missed the game and will miss fridays too. Pullem through fellas. It sounds like sheed will have to stand really tall for on game. Davis out, Perk out...dont look especialy good. Is Rondo hurt? What the hell is goin on? Daniels got a concussion too? Where the hell were the refs in this? It sounds like a bloodbath.

that douchebag is throwing elbows. somebody needs to thump that punk

I am watchin the highlights and howard is just bulldozin people and throwin elbows. Unbelievable!

We should know later today what the league ruling on Perk is.

Although those were two terrible calls, the one thing potentially standing in the way is that the bench had been warned right before the second T.

Normally the bench warning would in turn make the league reluctant to rescind, meaning the call stands.

Let's hope league officials consider the overall picture since we're not going to get sympathy for Howard's flying elbows after being viewed as taking it hard at Howard in the paint the first three games.

I would also hope the fact that Rush seems to have lost track of the prior technical helps our cause.

NYCelt wrote:I would also hope the fact that Rush seems to have lost track of the prior technical helps our cause.

I heard Doc talk about this - saying that Ed Rush told the bench he lost track. I mean WTF does that have to do with anything. If anything that just shows you how disgraceful the officiating is in the NBA. It is either a foul or it isnt. It is either worthy of a technical or it isnt.

What Rush is saying is that he wanted to send a message to Perk - like some parent reprimanding a child. But he forgot he already had 1 technical. I mean seriously, that isnt the role of a referee. Some of these refs need to hang it up.

NO ONE is watching these games to see Joey Crawford's ugly face or hear Ed Rush's ass backward logic after the fact. We watch to see the players - and the NBA has really lost its way with the amount of power it has given to it officials.

I totally agree with you mrkleen, if it is a T it is a T.

Kleen,

I know what you mean.

Actually, ref's often do make calls to make a point and I even think it's justified to show they have control; but certainly not in the playoffs.

I know a retired NBA referee by the name of Tom Ward. Tom often tells about the time he ran Elvin Hayes after telling him he was going to do it just to prove he wasn't going to let a game get out of hand. He warned the big E he would do it and why after the first call and when Hayes responded with something harmless to the effect of 'Aw come on Tom' Tom ran him right on the spot.

Hayes never gave him a tough time again.

It's just something he wouldn't do in the playoffs!

Regards

My guess is that Davis is finished for the year; maybe Daniels too. I believe that current neurologist recommendations are that you need to be symptom free for two months after a concussion to resume contact sports. So to protect Davis's brain, he needs to be out of the picture.
As for Perkins' T's : the league has to rescind at least one of them. You cannot allow the officials to determine who wins the series. I think the league understands that.
Its going to be a win Friday or we can pack our bags. The Celtics are not going to win game 7 in Orlando.

I can't agree with Kleen's assessment of a technical.
It varies based on the reputation of the player involved, the infraction, the impact that it will have on the game, etc.
What it takes Ray Allen to get a tech compared to Rasheed is completely different.
Even though Perk seems to have a bad reputation with the referees because of his constant complaining, I don't think he should have received either of those techs last night. There is no way that he purposely elbowed Gortat and for the second one, he was walking away and there was no way he yelled an F bomb or anything because he was facing the camera.
That was very unfortunate that he was ejected and I hope that at least one will be rescinded. I fully expect the NBA to do the right thing for Perkins.

Besides the referees, I really haven't heard anyone talking about PP's horrendous performance over the last 3 quarters, KG having only a 10 pt, 5 reb game and Ray making only 3 FG's in 42 minutes. Paul has looked very slow this whole year and I thought it was because of his knee and maybe it is, but his lack of conditioning has to be a factor also.
Great game by Rasheed!
Rondo can and needs to dominate game 6. I hope Rondo comes out with a killer instinct back in Boston.

tjmakz:

It is clear that different players can get away with different things, the question is more if it should be like that.

I would very much prefer more of a zero tolerance policy for all players when it comes to talking to the officials. Short of asking a brief "what was the call for?" and the official explaining there really is no "need" for conversation.

swedeinestonia wrote:tjmakz:

It is clear that different players can get away with different things, the question is more if it should be like that.

I would very much prefer more of a zero tolerance policy for all players when it comes to talking to the officials. Short of asking a brief "what was the call for?" and the official explaining there really is no "need" for conversation.

Good point Swede.

That would establish a clear line and maybe take care of some of the inconsistency.

Should make the life easier for officials too.

The players aint stupid, they would learn to keep their piehole shut rather fast.

tjmakz wrote:I can't agree with Kleen's assessment of a technical.

You say this and then do a better job than I did explaining why Perk's technicals were BS. I can agree with your assessment. Thanks.

swedeinestonia wrote:I would very much prefer more of a zero tolerance policy for all players when it comes to talking to the officials. Short of asking a brief "what was the call for?" and the official explaining there really is no "need" for conversation.

Swede - I completely disagree with this. This would give the officials an even greater "holier than thou" attitude - like they are beyond reproach or discussion.

Any other place in the real world, things are open to discussion. A veteran player like KG - with 10+ all star appearances and all nba team appearances has EARNED the right to talk to the officials after a bad call. They are not beyond making mistakes, and the give and take between players and refs is vital to the flow of the game.

I do agree that the bitching after every call gets annoying - and if I were a ref, at certain points I would get fed up with it. But to say that Doc or Ray Allen or Paul Pierce should get shut off from discussing things with the refs the same as a rookie is just silly. Working hard and getting to a certain station in life where you are extended certain special privileges is the way the world goes round.

What are you supposed be discussing?

And why can it not be made between quarters?

Pumpsie Green wrote:My guess is that Davis is finished for the year; maybe Daniels too. I believe that current neurologist recommendations are that you need to be symptom free for two months after a concussion to resume contact sports. So to protect Davis's brain, he needs to be out of the picture.

You might be right Pumpsie, but BBD can probably get back sooner. When Artest got his concussion at Christmas, he missed 10 days, as his first game back was on 1-5. If DAvis is on a similar recovery track as Ron, he'd be back by game 3 of the Finals, maybe game 2.

That said, brain injuries are the least predictable of all, and it looked like Baby got a double snap. First it was Howard/s elbow, but then when he landed on the floor, his head snapped forward with a lot of force (like a whiplash). If his brain was already bouncing around from the Howard elbow, the force of the whiplash may have made it that much worse- like multiple concussions at the same time. so who knows ?

The other thing is that even though Ron came back after 10 days- he seemed off-kilter for a long time thereafter. BBD will probably be the same way. So I think he may be back for the playoffs, but I'd be shocked if he could contribute at the level he has been up till now.

mrkleen09 wrote:

swedeinestonia wrote:I would very much prefer more of a zero tolerance policy for all players when it comes to talking to the officials. Short of asking a brief "what was the call for?" and the official explaining there really is no "need" for conversation.

Any other place in the real world, things are open to discussion. A veteran player like KG - with 10+ all star appearances and all nba team appearances has EARNED the right to talk to the officials after a bad call. They are not beyond making mistakes, and the give and take between players and refs is vital to the flow of the game.

Kleen,

The thing is that calls by the officials are not open to discussion.

They enforce the rules.

Being human they can blow a call; it happens. We only need them to not intentionally influence a game by virtue of a purposeful/knowingly wrong call.

When it comes to playing within the rules, a veteran or an all-star gets no preference over a rookie or earns more of a right to debate a call.

If there were fewer debates with the referees, the flow of the game would be interrupted less.

swedeinestonia wrote:What are you supposed be discussing?

And why can it not be made between quarters?

Have you ever played basketball? If I am defending someone in a manner that is legal - yet is called a foul by Official A - I need to be able to clarify that on the spot with him. If I wait until the end of the quarter, I very well may have 3 or 4 fouls already.

NYCelt wrote:Kleen,

The thing is that calls by the officials are not open to discussion.

They enforce the rules.

Being human they can blow a call; it happens. We only need them to not intentionally influence a game by virtue of a purposeful/knowingly wrong call.

When it comes to playing within the rules, a veteran or an all-star gets no preference over a rookie or earns more of a right to debate a call.

If there were fewer debates with the referees, the flow of the game would be interrupted less.

You cannot seriously be sitting here trying to tell us the Rookies and Veterans get the same calls. That is just silly.

I would even go so far as to say there are tiers in the NBA - with people like Wade - James - Howard - Durant - Anthony - Bryant on the upper tier (i.e. they get the MOST calls for them) and so on down the line.

Kleen,

You're developing a penchant for twisting some words here and I've got to tell you I'm not likeing it.

I'm not saying they do get the same calls, they don't.

Re-read what I said. What I said was that within the rules , no veteran or all star earns the benefit of preference or a greater say.

Within The Rules, Kleen, within the rules. Try including how I started that sentence; "When it comes to playing within the rules..."

How the heck can you even debate that statement? It's an irrefuteable fact in any sport!

In other words what I'm saying is the rules are the rules.

I'm agreeing with Swede that the rules should be enforced uniformly and debate should be limited.

Please don't try and bend the meaning of what I say

Let's play nice in an open debate here.

babyskyhook wrote:

Pumpsie Green wrote:My guess is that Davis is finished for the year; maybe Daniels too. I believe that current neurologist recommendations are that you need to be symptom free for two months after a concussion to resume contact sports. So to protect Davis's brain, he needs to be out of the picture.

You might be right Pumpsie, but BBD can probably get back sooner. When Artest got his concussion at Christmas, he missed 10 days, as his first game back was on 1-5. If DAvis is on a similar recovery track as Ron, he'd be back by game 3 of the Finals, maybe game 2.

That said, brain injuries are the least predictable of all, and it looked like Baby got a double snap. First it was Howard/s elbow, but then when he landed on the floor, his head snapped forward with a lot of force (like a whiplash). If his brain was already bouncing around from the Howard elbow, the force of the whiplash may have made it that much worse- like multiple concussions at the same time. so who knows ?

The other thing is that even though Ron came back after 10 days- he seemed off-kilter for a long time thereafter. BBD will probably be the same way. So I think he may be back for the playoffs, but I'd be shocked if he could contribute at the level he has been up till now.

I took a look at the adult literature on concussions and its much more complicated than how we handle kids. Depending on who you talk to we restrict contact sports for 1-2 months after a concussion in children. For adults there seems to be more dependence on neurologic testing and a quicker return may be allowed. I cannot see Davis playing tomorrow nite, though we will need him.
Time for the Celtics to suck it up and play some great team defense. I think it can be done and it will be done...but admit to some uneasiness after all that has happened in the past couple of games. Sad thing it: Rondo should have called a time out at the end of game 4 and set up a play. That was a mistake IMO. I hope we don't look back at that as the turning point in the series.

Game . Game 6. Game 6. Focus. Focus. Focus. Screw the officials. Screw anything that might preoccupy the lakers as it seems to preoccupy fans. There is only Game 6. There is nothing else. Focus. Focus.

Sam

NYCelt wrote:Kleen,

You're developing a penchant for twisting some words here and I've got to tell you I'm not likeing it.

I'm not saying they do get the same calls, they don't.

Re-read what I said. What I said was that within the rules , no veteran or all star earns the benefit of preference or a greater say.

Within The Rules, Kleen, within the rules. Try including how I started that sentence; "When it comes to playing within the rules..."

How the heck can you even debate that statement? It's an irrefuteable fact in any sport!

In other words what I'm saying is the rules are the rules.

I'm agreeing with Swede that the rules should be enforced uniformly and debate should be limited.

Please don't try and bend the meaning of what I say

Let's play nice in an open debate here.

So using the phrase "within the rules" means you are talking about things in this hypothetical, everyone is equal world - which is not reality. OK, I buy that. I think that a foul should be a foul. I argued this very point earlier in the discussion.

My point was the as with anything in life - the higher you are on the social standing pyramid - the more preferential treatment you get - and many times, the more you deserve. I think that people like KG and Vince Carter have won enough and proved themselves enough that they DO deserve a bit more leway, a bit more lattitude in talking to officials. They have EARNED the respect of the referees and as such, should get a bit longer leash.