Terry Rozier

Should the Celtics get Terry locked up now with a new contract that will kick in for the 2019-20 season. It was around this time last year year that Boston began negotiations with Smart and his agent on an extension.

It all depends on the price, right? So what is the right price for Terry? I don't know. He definitely played great for much of the play-offs last year, but that is a small sample size. Would be nice to see if that great play continues this year. Do you know when the deadling is for an extension? Would Danny have the chance to watch him early this season before committing?

I do not see Danny doing this, or Rozier wanting it. In this day of free agency, restricted or not, guys love to see what the market is for their skills and I believe, if he has a good year and improves as much as he did last year, there will be a big market. Those days of locking guys up are gone, until they are in the league for quite a while.

My gut tells me either Kyrie or TRo will not be on the team at this time next season, maybe not even by this year's trade deadline.  Both are in the last year of their contracts.  Kyrie is the better player, of course, but is there a loyalty to the Celtics and the Boston area?  We hear about how much the Horford, Hayward, Baynes and Theis families are enjoying New England, we know Marcus Smart is one of us but not a word about Kyrie's comfort level.  That's a big die to roll.  TRo wants to be a starter and, with all fairness to him, probably could start on a lot of teams.  Would he resign with us if he thought that Kyrie would too, and that would make him a permanent bench player?  Something's gotta give.

I would trade Kyrie for Anthony Davis, I would throw in the Sacramento pick and even Robert Williams, who is redundant with Davis (Baynes or Theis are options too, I don't think Nwalins would want Baynes.  Maybe Theis.  Maybe).  I would include Jaylen in a package for Davis too.  Reluctantly, but I would for Davis.  TRo, of course, but that would take a lot more than TRo and the Sacto pick.  Brown AND TRo (contract extension first to make the numbers work) AND the Sacto pick?  Ouch, but Davis is the best big in the league, imo, and he is still young and relatively healthy. You can sign him as a free agent, MAYBE, but to get him with Bird Rights in a trade is HUGe. Bird Rights let you go over the cap to give him his Super Max contract.


bob


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I will get back to the AD thing a bit later.

Terry Rozier has the skills to be a starting point guard on this team as well as other NBA teams.  He has become Kyrie Irvings' understudy but he is no Kyrie Irving.  Danny spent the assets to get Kyrie because he is an elite player.  He is a special kind of talent.  He is a superstar.

Fans appear to be nervous that Kyrie may jump ship next year mainly because of the fluff out of NY.  He will opt out of his contract after the season because it is in his financial interest to do so.  This season will likely result in him forming closer bonds with his teammates, coach Stevens and the mystique of being a Boston Celtics.  He is already on a team that is built from top to bottom and there is no downside for him to contemplate.  He left Cleveland so that he could be out of the bigger than life shadow of Lebron James.  In Boston he is the guy, the big dog, the ultimate go to option, the best and most talented player on the team.  Something would have to go terribly wrong for him to give up this perch to go play for the Knicks or any other team.  I am very confident that he will resign with Boston.

Terry Rozier will be an unrestricted FA after the season.  The Celtics resigned Marcus Smart and I have speculated that the Celtics probably would not keep both Marcus and Terry after this season.   Terry has proven to be a solid alternative to Kyrie as evidenced by his performance.  The Celtics do not know what it will cost them to keep him so maybe they float a contract offer now.  I refuse to speculate what that might be.  But if nothing is done the Celtics will enter a very perilous time after the season on July 1st as both Terry and Kyrie are courted by other teams.  Terry will have the bigger target on his back because not a lot of teams will be in a position to make a $40 million per year bid for Kyrie.  Terry will have more suitors.

Boston's priority is to retain Kyrie and they have more than enough draft assets to replace Terry Rozier.  I could see him being traded for an inexpensive player and a 1st rounder this season but the Celtics are probably not looking to take on any big salaries.  If Danny can find a way to get something he will. I really do not see them moving him.

On to AD.

Anthony Davis has 3 years left on his contract.  The third is a player option.   Rumor has it that NOLA actually likes him.  Moving pieces around the chess board is one thing.  Chess pieces have no feelings.  Trading players especially high profile players is another.   I think Boston could make a run at Davis but I do not feel there is any urgency for the Pelicans to move him.  He has not expressed a desire to play elsewhere.  

I also would not consider trading away our best player for their best player.  That is not logical.  And NOLA would not accept a trade for Kyrie Irving unless he was committed to resigning.  That is not going to happen.  Plus they already have big bucks invested at the point.   There are a lot of reasons Kyrie will not be traded to NOLA.  Take your pick.

I also would not include either Jaylen or Jayson in a package to get Davis.  There are 3 players on the Celtics that I would not trade (Irving, Brown and Tatum)  I cannot come up with a single player in the NBA that I would want bad enough to part with these three.

The Celtics are in a very unique position because they have a well balanced roster with depth at every position.  They do not need to upgrade any position to win now.  

I think we may hear some rumblings from AD next season.  He will have played there for 7 years.  The Celtics should still have enough assets to get in the mix and at that time it would make more sense because of  Horford's x-date.

The Celtics success is not based on having the best big man or the best PG or the best of anything.  It is based on having quality talent across the board.  So if you trade Kyrie for example you still have scary Terry. But Terry ain't that scary.  Now Kyrie is scary.

Jaylen Brown is well on the road to becoming the Celtics best two-way player. And if you traded him you opened up a weakness at the 2 spot.  I'm not doing that.

I know everyone loves Tatum and rightfully so but he will NEVER be as good defensively as Jaylen because he lacks lateral quickness on defense.  That is the reason why I think Brown's abilities may be overlooked.  Both of them look like 20+ points per game scorers so I ain't taking no offers for them.  Tatum has the potential to be a very highend offensive weapon.

Back to the subject of this thread.  The Celtics probably part ways with Terry and use one of their many draft picks to find a replacement. He may not be traded but they will let him walk at the end of the year.

Boston simply cannot afford to allocate up $60 plus million per on PG's (Smart, Irving and Rozier)

The Celtics have done a great job helping Terry develop.

Seems like letting Terry walk at the end of the year would be the worst case scenario for the Celtics. Unless Danny really feels like this is the year to go all in, then Danny should trade him if he definitely plans on keeping Smart and signing Kyrie.

I agree that it is unlikely we keep Marcus, Kyrie, and Terry. Assuming Kyrie is staying, Danny has to decide between Marcus and Terry. My guess is that he hasn't made up his mind. I don't think resigning Marcus means he chose Marcus. Resigning Marcus bought him more time to figure things out before having to let someone walk without getting anything in return. Yes, he let Kelly walk, but that was a different situation. Kelly is a different player, and the Celtics needed cap room.

I would trade Kyrie for AD in a heartbeat. Kyrie is a very good player, but AD is a generational talent. No way NO does that trade straight up (or with filler to make salaries match). I would also throw in the Sacto pick, and even Terry. Adding Jaylen or Tatum is where I draw the line.

I do not believe Kyrie will be going anywhere, Bob. I just cannot imagine that he will leave this team before they reach the goal that they set at the first press conference, A Championship.

Terry Rozier wants to start, there is no doubt about that. If he has the same kind of a year as last year, they will have no choice but to trade him either at the end of the season on in February. He is not the future leader of this team. I sound like a non fan, non believer, but I just do not feel he is the "guy". Danny will do all he can to keep Kyrie and in the end, I believe he will win.

Shamrock1000 wrote:Seems like letting Terry walk at the end of the year would be the worst case scenario for the Celtics. Unless Danny really feels like this is the year to go all in, then Danny should trade him if he definitely plans on keeping Smart and signing Kyrie.

I agree that it is unlikely we keep Marcus, Kyrie, and Terry. Assuming Kyrie is staying, Danny has to decide between Marcus and Terry. My guess is that he hasn't made up his mind. I don't think resigning Marcus means he chose Marcus. Resigning Marcus bought him more time to figure things out before having to let someone walk without getting anything in return. Yes, he let Kelly walk, but that was a different situation. Kelly is a different player, and the Celtics needed cap room.

I would trade Kyrie for AD in a heartbeat. Kyrie is a very good player, but AD is a generational talent. No way NO does that trade straight up (or with filler to make salaries match). I would also throw in the Sacto pick, and even Terry. Adding Jaylen or Tatum is where I draw the line.  

Rock if you traded Kyrie, Terry and the Sacto pick for AD who is the starting PG???  The Sacto pick by the way is not chop liver.  I disagree with you about Kyrie being just a good player.  Kyrie is the most skilled offensive player in the NBA.  He has no weaknesses scoring the ball.  He can do everything. Everything! He has the best pure ball handling skills of any player who ever played in the NBA. No player in the NBA has his level of command when using his off hand.  He is excellent scoring the basketball from all three areas.  He is an excellent shooter from behind the arc, He has a killer midrange game and he can take anybody anytime to the rim  and finish.  Did I mention he is also a premier level shooter from the line. So let's not get this twisted, Kyrie is several notches above being just good.

I think AD is a fantastic player.  But generational?  I do not think so.  First of all he is a .309 career shooter from behind the arc and a career 1.9 assist per game guy.  In today's NBA 3 point shooting is a prerequisite even for bigs and being able to run your offense through a big requires the ability and WILLINGNESS to pass the damn ball.

I would give pause before categorically agreeing to trade your best player + Rozier and likely a top 5 pick for a player you really do not need.  

The worse case scenario for the Celtics is not letting Terry walk.  Worse case scenario is losing Kyrie to free agency.  He is the top priority.

Think of it this way.  If the Celtics did what you suggest the cost for getting Davis would be IT, Crowder, Zizic, the 8th pick in the 2018 draft, Kyrie Irving, Terry Rozier and likely another top 5 pick.  Do ya still want to do this deal?

We don’t need Davis to win, we are already stacked, add that Sacto pick, we are even deeper and better. I agree with dboss cannot let Kyrie and TR go, one but not both. Al, Baynes, Theis and Williams is plenty of depth and good enough production for a 4-5 crew IMHO. Al seems the type of healthy modern player always working and expanding his game, that can still be a key cog into his 30’s. He defends much better than I thought before he arrived, the rookie Williams is blessed with a ton of raw talent, he too adds another potential impactful big that can play like a big. There’s no need to weaken the team and mess up the great winning chemistry by trading 
a Jaylen in some package. That doesn’t make any sense to me.

Vegas is strong on the warriors this year - and I agree. Next year will probably see many changes over the summer in key personnel of the top contenders. Who will be the pre season favorite come next October ?

swish

Vegas has been wrong before. One injury to a key player and they could be vulnerable

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Vegas has been wrong before.  One injury to a key player and they could be vulnerable

Rosalie

All of your above comments are 100% true - but what if they don't have any key injuries ?

swish

I tend to agree with dboss, but IT  and Crowder are no longer part of the equation. A price already paid shouldn't factor into future business decisions. I wouldn`t be quite so dismissive of Davis, either. Big guys have been known to add accurate three point shooting to their arsenals later in their careers (ahem, Al Horford---Aron Baynes (small sample),  Sheed--oh wait, I said accurate. ) As far as AD's assist totals, who should he have been passing the ball to?

All of this worry over Kyrie could be wasted time as he gave an interview with Jackie Mac saying how he was looking forward to this year. When questioned about the future, his comment was: "who wouldn't want to be a part of what we are building here, it is special".

Doesn't sound like a guy ready to jump ship. Not signing an extension is strictly monetary. $80 million dollars is a lot of money to throw aside. So he will go to free agency but all indications are that he will be around for the future

RosalieTCeltics wrote:All of this worry over Kyrie could be wasted time as he gave an interview with Jackie Mac saying how he was looking forward to this year.  When questioned about the future, his comment was: "who wouldn't want to be a part of what we are building here, it is special".

Doesn't sound like a guy ready to jump ship. Not signing an extension is strictly monetary. $80 million dollars is a lot of money to throw aside. So he will go to free agency but all indications are that he will be around for the future

That's been my feeling on it. At worse, Rozier is then an insurance policy against him leaving. I guess, though, having Smart extended really is already that. There is nothing wrong having 2 of those 3 signed to deserving contracts.

jrleftfoot wrote:I tend to agree with dboss, but IT  and Crowder are no longer part of the equation. A price already paid shouldn't factor into future business decisions. I wouldn`t be quite so dismissive of Davis, either. Big guys have been known to add accurate three point shooting to their arsenals later in their careers (ahem, Al Horford---Aron Baynes (small sample),  Sheed--oh wait, I said accurate. ) As far as AD's assist totals, who should he have been passing the ball to?

Good points all around. Looking at the value to the team should also include the time Kyrie plays for the Celtics but the transactions are relatively close together so my argument is to add them up and make a value judgement if you arrived at AD.  Seems like a lot to give up if the ultimate goal is to build a long term championship contender.

AD is a beast and only a fool would not want him on the team.  But again I would not give up Irving or our two young studs in the process.  Anyways I think we will be talking about this again when AD is ready to leave NOLA.

Also, I agree with Rosalie and do not think there is a compeling reason for Kyrie to leave.

Can't wait for that first center jump!

dboss wrote:

Shamrock1000 wrote:Seems like letting Terry walk at the end of the year would be the worst case scenario for the Celtics. Unless Danny really feels like this is the year to go all in, then Danny should trade him if he definitely plans on keeping Smart and signing Kyrie.

I agree that it is unlikely we keep Marcus, Kyrie, and Terry. Assuming Kyrie is staying, Danny has to decide between Marcus and Terry. My guess is that he hasn't made up his mind. I don't think resigning Marcus means he chose Marcus. Resigning Marcus bought him more time to figure things out before having to let someone walk without getting anything in return. Yes, he let Kelly walk, but that was a different situation. Kelly is a different player, and the Celtics needed cap room.

I would trade Kyrie for AD in a heartbeat. Kyrie is a very good player, but AD is a generational talent. No way NO does that trade straight up (or with filler to make salaries match). I would also throw in the Sacto pick, and even Terry. Adding Jaylen or Tatum is where I draw the line.  

Rock if you traded Kyrie, Terry and the Sacto pick for AD who is the starting PG???  The Sacto pick by the way is not chop liver.  I disagree with you about Kyrie being just a good player.  Kyrie is the most skilled offensive player in the NBA.  He has no weaknesses scoring the ball.  He can do everything. Everything! He has the best pure ball handling skills of any player who ever played in the NBA. No player in the NBA has his level of command when using his off hand.  He is excellent scoring the basketball from all three areas.  He is an excellent shooter from behind the arc, He has a killer midrange game and he can take anybody anytime to the rim  and finish.  Did I mention he is also a premier level shooter from the line. So let's not get this twisted, Kyrie is several notches above being just good.

I think AD is a fantastic player.  But generational?  I do not think so.  First of all he is a .309 career shooter from behind the arc and a career 1.9 assist per game guy.  In today's NBA 3 point shooting is a prerequisite even for bigs and being able to run your offense through a big requires the ability and WILLINGNESS to pass the damn ball.

I would give pause before categorically agreeing to trade your best player + Rozier and likely a top 5 pick for a player you really do not need.  

The worse case scenario for the Celtics is not letting Terry walk.  Worse case scenario is losing Kyrie to free agency.  He is the top priority.

Think of it this way.  If the Celtics did what you suggest the cost for getting Davis would be IT, Crowder, Zizic, the 8th pick in the 2018 draft, Kyrie Irving, Terry Rozier and likely another top 5 pick.  Do ya still want to do this deal?

Dboss, your post is well written and well reasoned, as always. So much so that I almost find myself agreeing with you!

When I said I would include Terry in a trade for AD, I hadn't fully considered who would play point. I lazily posted that comment more to illustrate the level of talent I would add to Kyrie to get AD (i.e. Terry or someone at that level, but probably not one of the J's). You are right, I would have traded away our two best point guards. That would indeed make me take pause, but it would not necessarily be a deal breaker for me. Kyrie played point better under Brad than he ever had. Terry looks like a starting caliber PG under Brad. IT was an mvp-caliber point guard under Brad.  Evan Turner handled the point well for Brad. Even Jordan Crawford looked good at the point under Brad. We have plenty of play makers on the team. Also, there is currently a ton of talent at the point in the NBA. Brad and Danny would figure something out. Talented Bigs, on the other hand, are far more rare.

Regarding Kyrie, note that I said "very good", not just "good". But you are right, I should have said "great" or "sensational". All the points you make are true - Kyrie is a ball-handling viruoso, can shoot from all ranges, and can breakdown almost anyone. Kyrie's virtuosity is what makes him one of the best iso players in the game. Note that I am not saying he didn't play team ball last year, because he did, just that his unique skill set is more valuable on a team that plays more iso-ball. We saw last year that the Celtics performed nearly as well with Terry playing the point.

You mention that AD doesn't shoot well from 3, and only averages ~ 2 assists per game. True. However, put him in Brad's system, and I bet both those numbers improve. As Jrleftfoot pointed out, AD hasn't had all that many guys to pass to. He is also a big man, and will never average tons of assists. Also, he has been the focal point of his team's offense for years. Put him on the court with these Celtics, playing Brad's system, and I bet those numbers drastically improve. Further, you point out two of AD's deficiencies, assists & 3 pt shooting, but lets not forget the rest of his offensive game, his rebounding, and his defense. AD brings things the Celtics currently lack, and a future core of AD, GH, JB, and JT would be sick. No disrespect to Kyrie at all, who is sensational, but I believe when all is said in done, AD will be remembered as one of the best of his generation. I don't think Kyrie will ever be quite at that level. So yeah, Kyrie + Terry + the Sacto pick does seem like an awful lot, but I just keep coming back to how sick a core of AD, GH, JT, and JB would be; that core could compete for years.

Caveat; this thread was originally about trading Terry - all of the above is thinking over the long term. If Danny feels like we can take it all this year, which may be possible, then I am totally happy with him not trading Terry, even if it means letting him walk for nothing.

Wow I know I said we don’t need him to contend, but if we did get AD and kept our bigs, we would have the ultimate bigs that would even rival the talent and depth of our wings. AD would fit seamlessly next to Al, Baynes, Theis or defensive rookie stud to be Williams.

Back to Terry

It really sounded like a verbal commitment from Kyrie to resign with Boston.  Terry's tenure is now in doubt.  However we do not know what the appetite is for the owners to go deeper into the tax penalty.  That's a factor and we do not know if Danny will trade Marcus Smart.  

Danny is still sitting own attractive draft assets.

I do believe that Danny has another big trade in mind and I think AD will be the target because he is all set 1-4.  NOLA however does not have to make a deal anytime soon unless AD wants to be traded.  I do not think that will happen this year although it could.  In the meantime Terry's future with Boston is waving in the wind like a flag, more prominently now that Kyrie is on board for the foreseeable future.

I am of the firm belief that Terry Rozier will ask for a trade or will not resign if they let it go until the end of the season. HE WANTS TO START. He has said he feels he is a starting point guard in this league. Could be he is right, and in that case, he is gone. People are mentioning still that Marcus Smart get traded. hmm....
I don't think so unless his game regresses this year which I believe it won't. This is a question we will be
tossing around all year, or at least until February.

I am probably the only one person on this board who is not convinced that Terry Rozier will become a super point guard. His defense is excellent, his rebounding is
so damn good for a small guy, but....when I watch him play on offense, there is where my questions are. It seems that it takes him a long time to get into the swing of things in a game, sometimes into the fourth quarter, hence the big deficits they had to overcome at times. This will not happen this year with Kyrie, Gordon, and the two J's. But my question about Terry is there, sitting. I hope I am the one who is wrong, but I wonder

I'm sure Terry will be in the conversation right up until the trading deadline passes.

It will be interesting to see if Wanamaker can play.

There may be no PG ranked in the up coming lottery.

Once KI resigns there will be a need to upgrade the frontline.

dboss wrote:Back to Terry

It really sounded like a verbal commitment from Kyrie to resign with Boston.  Terry's tenure is now in doubt.  However we do not know what the appetite is for the owners to go deeper into the tax penalty.  That's a factor and we do not know if Danny will trade Marcus Smart.  

Danny is still sitting own attractive draft assets.

I do believe that Danny has another big trade in mind and I think AD will be the target because he is all set 1-4.  NOLA however does not have to make a deal anytime soon unless AD wants to be traded.  I do not think that will happen this year although it could.  In the meantime Terry's future with Boston is waving in the wind like a flag, more prominently now that Kyrie is on board for the foreseeable future.

I thought Rozier was a restricted free agent and not an unrestricted Free agent at years end.

Kronic

He is restricted provided Boston makes the Qualifying offer.

Boston could make an extension offer in oct or wait until the end of the year snd make a decision about a salary match.

Terry has done a good job branding himself and his value appears to have upside.

Boston is now a tax payer.   How deep are they willing to go.  Terry is a $15 mill guy likely.  He may be in demand and Boston would have to match to keep him.  I am sure he wants to be a starting PG.  That is not likely with Kyrie here.  I assume Boston gives him a max contract.  

There are only so many dollars to spend on your PG position.

The year after next year Brown will be the focus.

The future draft picks may make it possible to replace guys that become too expensive to keep.

Trading is also a possibility.

This is nothing but a side issue. Boston has a great team this year so I will enjoy seeing them play.

Danny will decide what is best to do so there should be no real concern about Terry.

I started the post because Terry is eligible for an extension now.