Boston Celtics fall to Orlando Magic 93-90: Kyrie Irving's re-emergence, cold shooting plus 10 things we learned

https://www.masslive.com/expo/sports/erry-2018/10/c30c7754a78271/boston-celtics-fall-to-orlando.html

BOSTON -- The Boston Celtics went ice cold and fell to the Orlando Magic on Monday, dropping 93-90 at the TD Garden.

The Celtics had two chances to tie down the stretch, as both Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward got decent looks in the final seconds, but neither fell and the Celtics dropped to 2-2.

Here are 10 things we learned.

1. The Celtics started abysmally.
No, seriously, it was really bad -- even compared to the rest of the game. The listless effort yielded very little ball movement, few good looks and a lot of contested, long twos. When the Celtics got good looks, they couldn't find the range.

Orlando, meanwhile, started with a 16-2 lead on points in the paint. That type of disparity is a recipe for a double-digit deficit.



2. The second unit briefly brought things back.
You can't ever really tell how angry Brad Stevens is from his face, but his reliance on an all-bench unit for extended minutes in the first quarter -- Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, Marcus Morris, Daniel Theis and Guerschon Yabusele, before Semi Ojeleye replaced Yabusele -- should tell you what Stevens thought of the effort his starters produced.

Stevens' cold anger seemed to work -- the second unit gave some effort, made the game more respectable, and the chastised starters returned with some energy. The Celtics trailed by three at halftime and promptly went back down by double digits, but credit the bench for injecting some energy.



3. Jayson Tatum: The new iso option?
Tatum's shot selection has been a little questionable at times, but shot selection can only be so questionable when making tough shots is simply what a player does.

Interestingly, the Celtics have been going to Tatum repeatedly -- as opposed to other iso options -- when the clock runs down. the ratio of those looks could certainly change in the closing seconds from time to time, but increasingly, Tatum has been the option as Kyrie Irving continues to struggle. It will be interesting to see how that dynamic develops this season.




4. Gordon Hayward's shot is getting more and more comfortable.
The first shot Hayward took was a step-back triple, which he canned. The second was a spot-up three, which he also canned. Hayward looked good in pick-and-roll sets, and even shook Aaron Gordon off the bounce in the second half.

Somewhere in the Raptors game, Hayward appeared to gain a rhythm, and he has continued to look increasingly comfortable.






5. Kyrie Irving without the headband: Better?
Irving's first three games were mostly a slog -- he couldn't find the range from three, and he struggled to get into the shifty offense that has defined his offense throughout his career.

Perhaps related (but probably not): Irving also wore a headband for the first three games of the season, as well as the first quarter, which was also a slog.

Then Irving ditched it.

Irving's offense was then ... slightly less of a slog. He made a couple of spectacular plays, a couple of routine (for Kyrie) ones, and he dished a few aesthetically pleasing assists.

The headband probably wasn't holding Irving back -- much more likely, it was the lengthy break from basketball followed by a ton of defensive attention -- but in either case, he looked much better at times on Monday, which is encouraging for Boston.

6. Robert Williams made his debut.
Williams' stats were a bunch of zeroes, but he played with a ton of energy and was effective defensively -- his contest of Nik Vucevic led to the play below.

If Baynes sits for an extended period, Williams' might earn himself more run.




7. The Celtics look like they are still trying to figure out roles.
The shot selection doesn't help -- contested twos, contested threes, few forays into the paint -- but when Boston goes cold, the results are just ugly. On a team with a ton of stars, the Celtics need to figure out who should shoot and when to do it.

Those roles might be difficult to fully define until Irving and Hayward are full strength, but until it is, don't be surprised by nights like Monday. Uncertain shooters are often inaccurate ones.

8. Orlando's defense can be pretty good.
Plenty of the Celtics' struggles were their own doing, but Orlando has a ton of length and a whole lot of versatility. Lineups with Jonathan Isaac, Mo Bamba and Aaron Gordon can contest, switch and protect the rim at a high level, and Evan Fournier is feisty as well at times.

Boston needs to get a lot better, but its struggles can't be entirely attributed to shot selection and pressing.

9. Tatum's passing looks improved.
Let's do a positive! Tatum's vision looks better, and he's showing good patience in the pick-and-roll. As defenses collapse harder and harder on him, that could prove important.




10. It still isn't panic time.
There will be a lot of handwringing about Boston's early-season struggles, but remember a few things.

- The shooting won't continue to be this bad.

- Continuity can only help a team this talented.

- Everybody will continue to get more and more healthy.

The Celtics might have more to figure out than many thought, and we aren't used to Brad Stevens' teams needing time to come together. But sometimes, teams need time. That appears to be the case here. Panic time is still in the future.

http://www.nba.com/games/20181022/ORLBOS#/recap

Vucevic scores 24 with 12 rebounds as Magic hold off Celtics
By KEN POWTAK | Associated Press

Invalid date ET

BOSTON (AP) The way things went on the road for the Orlando Magic last season, one of the final two 3-point attempts by Boston probably would have gone in.

But it's a new season and the ball bounced the right way in the closing seconds for Orlando.

Nikola Vucevic had 24 points and 12 rebounds while the Magic survived two 3-point attempts by Boston in the final seconds to beat the Celtics 93-90 on Monday night.

"We definitely held our breath," Vucevic said of the second 3-point attempt. "Once it hit the rim and I looked at the clock, it was almost over and I was like: 'alright we're good.'"

Jonathan Isaac added 18 points and 12 boards for the Magic (2-2), who went just 8-33 on the road last season, losing 25 of their last 28.

Kyrie Irving led the Celtics (2-2) with 22 points. Al Horford had 15 and Gordon Hayward 11. Irving and Hayward each missed a 3 in the final seconds.

"It had a chance for sure," Hayward said. "It was a good look. Kind of the story of the night, we had a bunch of good looks and just didn't knock them down."

The Celtics, who never led in the game, trailed by at least five points from the midway point of the final quarter until Jaylen Brown nailed a 3-pointer from the left corner, closing it to 89-86 with 71 seconds left.

But Isaac answered with a foul-line jumper on the next possession.

Horford and Irving then had consecutive baskets 32 seconds apart, slicing it to 91-90 with 14.2 seconds to play.

With Boston forced to foul Evan Fournier after Orlando inbounded the ball after a timeout, he stepped to the line and made both free throws with 7.8 seconds left.

Irving then missed his 3 from the right corner, and after Horford grabbed the rebound and fed it out - Hayward's rimmed out just before the buzzer sounded.

"I was beating myself up that Horford got that rebound," Isaac said. "I was trying my best to box him out. I was like 'No don't let them end the game like this or don't let them come back.'"

Orlando had pulled ahead by 13 points twice late in the third quarter before Boston closed the period by scoring 10 of the final 12 points to slice it to 75-70 at the break.

SEATED COURTSIDE

Red Sox star Mookie Betts walked into the arena early in the second quarter and watched from a courtside seat across from Boston's bench. Later in the quarter, the Celtics moved him to a seat right next to their bench.

GETTING STARTED

Robert Williams, the Celtics' first-round pick in this year's NBA draft, made his debut, playing 3 ½ minutes in the third quarter without getting anything on his stat line.

LONG MISSES

Both teams were ice cold from beyond the arc. The Celtics missed 31 of 40 and the Magic 25 of 35.

"Sometimes when you don't make it early, you can feel the tension," Boston coach Brad Stevens said.

TIP INS

Magic: C Timofey Mozgov was inactive for the fourth straight game with a sore right knee. . Vucevic was 11 of 18 from the floor and Isaac 8 of 12.

Celtics: C Aaron Baynes missed the game with a strained right hamstring. ... Stevens turned 42-years-old on Wednesday. ... Marcus Morris started the second half after Hayward picked up three fouls in the first two quarters. . Brown hit just 2 of 9 attempts from the floor and Jayson Tatum was 3 of 12.

UP NEXT

Magic: Host Portland on Thursday.

Celtics: At Oklahoma City on Thursday. They beat the Thunder in both meetings last season.

7. The Celtics look like they are still trying to figure out roles.
The shot selection doesn't help -- contested twos, contested threes, few forays into the paint -- but when Boston goes cold, the results are just ugly. On a team with a ton of stars, the Celtics need to figure out who should shoot and when to do it.

Those roles might be difficult to fully define until Irving and Hayward are full strength, but until it is, don't be surprised by nights like Monday. Uncertain shooters are often inaccurate ones.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

that seems to sum up what I see as our early season offensive problems. With that in mind, perhaps Brad should consider having at least one of Smart, Baynes or Theis on the floor at all times. Each of those players do NOT need to shoot the ball to help the team, leaving the other four players as to be the top shooters.

it could be that too many shooters on the floor are clogging up the works.

wheres Brown been, BTW? he seems lost with Irving, Tataum, Hayward out there with him...fourth option?

Hi,
One more stinker by Celtics. This one with the L at the end.
I've got an impression that Brad is still experimenting during pre-season games.
I thought that KI and especially GH would need whatever number of weeks to get to their normal levels but it seems the whole team would need it.

AK

All very good points. I would way prefer this feeling out period now very early in the season when no one cares than to get to the playoffs, come upon a match up issue or two Brad can't solve in a short series and be unceremoniously bounced to the curb, 4-1.

What Brad Steven's has before him is similar to what Phil Jackson had to do managing great talent and to a certain degree big egos. That is a huge game within the game and season. Brad, unfortunately, has a very steep learning curve as the expectations are very high now and this is just his 6th(?) season in the pro ranks. BTW, I'm not worried. He's got this.

(I learned something new about my newly acquired League Pass last night with U-verse/AT&T. They splice out NBATV unless you want to pay $15/month for 100+ more channels. So, I missed last night's game. Currently trying to find out if they will just ala carte me one channel. Anyone else have this problem? I don't want 100 more channels I'm not going to watch...just one more is all I want.)

The biggest things now are assimilating Kyrie and Gordon back into the line up and letting Jason go....go nuts that is! That will solve pretty much all of our early woes here!

db

Is Jaylen Brown traveling somewhere with our pal Bob Heckler? Where has he been the past 4 games?

The Celtics are exactly where they were one year ago at 2-2.  

The problem that I see is that Boston is free wheeling too much.  Too much one on one.  When they move the ball on offense and a guy misses a wide open shot I am good with that.

What I have a problem with is the one pass and then shoot mindset of these players.

There is a certain level of laziness associated with taking a 3 point shot especially early in the shot clock.

The Celtics need to get to the line more.

The Celtics are playing like freakin Houston.  Whoever gets the ball first shoots the 3.  

The Celtics are not going to keep shooting 31% from deep.

The good news is that Boston has been playing some pretty good defense and their offense will catch up with their defense.

I figure a dozen games or so should help this team find some consistency.

We finally got a peek at Williams last night.  His quickness and length is apparent.  I think Brad  is going to need him sooner rather than later.  

The most surprising thing so far has been the rebounding we are getting from Jayson Tatum.    As long as he continues to rebound well the Celtics can play 3 wings in their lineup.  

The Celtics Chemistry is much different from last year because Baynes started most of the game alongside Horford.  You had a big body setting picks and helping to facilitate the offense.  

Now you have 5 guys starting all capable of scoring the ball but who is willing to sacrifice his own offense?   However, that may not be the problem.

Maybe 10 games from now we will say not a problem because guys will start making their shots.  I look for Boston to sharpen up on ball movement and shot selection.

If Brad can get these guys to run their offense the right way everyone will have opportunities to score the basketball.  That is the beauty of having five scorers on the floor at the same time.  There is no reason to settle for a bad shot.

By the way Gordon Hayward looks pretty damn good already.

worcester wrote:Is Jaylen Brown traveling somewhere with our pal Bob Heckler? Where has he been the past 4 games?

Worcester,

Didn't see him in Cape Town. Didn't share an ostrich steak with him in Stellenbosch (unlikely anyway since he's a vegetarian). Just got to Outdshoorn. I'll keep my eyes open.


bob


.

worcester wrote:Is Jaylen Brown traveling somewhere with our pal Bob Heckler? Where has he been the past 4 games?

Brown has been struggling just like everyone else. He has missed a lot of shots he normally makes but just like in the Raptor game he knocked down a big time 3 pointer with the game on the line and 1:11 left in the 4th.

He is getting the toughest defensive assignment most nights and he is not getting as many FGA. That is to be expected with Tatum taking more shots and of course Irving and now Hayward are prime time options. I think Jaylen will be just fine. His role needs to be #1 a defender and #2 a guy that can score.

I think his timing has been off at both ends of the floor but he should settle down after a while.

Dboss, from your mouth to God's ears. I am a big fan of Jaylen.

Bob - keep on enjoying the life. I hear Anthony Bourdain's show needs a replacement. Who better than you, the world's most adventurous gourmand?

Couple of thoughts I jotted down during the game last night.

#1 - The officiating in the NBA has been absolutely atrocious so far.  I have watched a bunch of games already, and they are just bad across the league. I know it is about the refs sticking to the NBAs new "points of emphasis", but COME ON.  There is no flow and players have no idea what is and is not a foul.  Not a very entertaining product so far.

#2 -Jaylen needs to let effort and defense fuel his offense.  Too many times he misses a shot and that discouragement shows on the defensive end, where he gets burned for an easy basket.  He needs to get back to doing the opposite, let the energy of his D fuel his offense.  He also needs to get back to his aggressive mindset from the Philly game. Stop deferring and get take what is yours young fella.

#3 -Kyrie still looks like his knee is in recovery mode.  He played better last night, but still more runners and flip shots than breaking people down off the dribble.  He will get there.

#4 -Stevens is clearly still experimenting, but I see no reason to not have at least one of Hayward, Brown, or Tatum on the floor.  There was a point last night with Semi, Williams, Theis, Smart and Rozier.  One shooter (who was cold last night) on the floor isnt going to cut it.

In the end, all of this will work out.  Brad said last night (per his usual trust the process comments) that he felt last night was their best offensive game - many of those shots will fall over the long run.  

But its on the defensive end that they need to tighten up, and where they really miss Aron Baynes.

Next.

dboss,

You want to talk about the free-wheeling, forget the defense Western Conference? The Spurs edged out LAL in OT 143-142! That almost borders on an All-Star game score! Defense will win championships. The free wheelers eventually start throwing up enough bricks to build a shopping mall and fall by the wayside.

Brad won't let that happen here. He'll do like he did last night and pull the starters off the floor until they figure out this is HIS show , his team and his game, not the players.

db

dbrown4 wrote:dboss,

You want to talk about the free-wheeling, forget the defense Western Conference?  The Spurs edged out LAL in OT 143-142!  That almost borders on an All-Star game score!  Defense will win championships.  The free wheelers eventually start throwing up enough bricks to build a shopping mall and fall by the wayside.

Brad won't let that happen here.  He'll do like he did last night and pull the starters off the floor until they figure out this is HIS show , his team and his game, not the players.

db

Brad was pissed off last night and made wholesale changes. That second unit actually gave us a spark.

A lot of times Brad will let the players figure stuff out on their own.

who they are today is not who they will be come next April.

mrkleen09 wrote:Couple of thoughts I jotted down during the game last night.

#1 - The officiating in the NBA has been absolutely atrocious so far.  I have watched a bunch of games already, and they are just bad across the league. I know it is about the refs sticking to the NBAs new "points of emphasis", but COME ON.  There is no flow and players have no idea what is and is not a foul.  Not a very entertaining product so far.

#2 -Jaylen needs to let effort and defense fuel his offense.  Too many times he misses a shot and that discouragement shows on the defensive end, where he gets burned for an easy basket.  He needs to get back to doing the opposite, let the energy of his D fuel his offense.  He also needs to get back to his aggressive mindset from the Philly game. Stop deferring and get take what is yours young fella.

#3 -Kyrie still looks like his knee is in recovery mode.  He played better last night, but still more runners and flip shots than breaking people down off the dribble.  He will get there.

#4 -Stevens is clearly still experimenting, but I see no reason to not have at least one of Hayward, Brown, or Tatum on the floor.  There was a point last night with Semi, Williams, Theis, Smart and Rozier.  One shooter (who was cold last night) on the floor isnt going to cut it.

In the end, all of this will work out.  Brad said last night (per his usual trust the process comments) that he felt last night was their best offensive game - many of those shots will fall over the long run.  

But its on the defensive end that they need to tighten up, and where they really miss Aron Baynes.

Next.

Kleen from the few games i have watched around the league it looks like more scoring and less defense.

The Celtics are 2nd in points allowed so that tells me their defense is way ahead of their offense. Their defense can get better as well but right now putting the ball in the hole has been their biggest issue. Hayward is still on a minutes restriction but that dude is one smooth operator and each game he is getting better.

dboss wrote:

Kleen from the few games i have watched around the league it looks like more scoring and less defense.

Yup, guess that is what the NBA wants. But players who have been able to hand check, or bump a cutter since they were kids are now being penalized over and over - I understand how confusing it must be.

At some point, they should just make defense optional since they are shooting for 143 to 142 games

We are also last in FT attempts and we have plenty of guys that can attack the rim. I’d like us to drive and get to the line more, I would agree sometimes we put up a 3 too soon and we are overpassing, when we have players that can just take their man and beat him. Also Baynes was missed, as Vucevic looked like an all star as Al didn’t have his usual stellar defensive game. Until Williams learns the nuances, Baynes inside presence is as important as Smarts defense on this team.

Like other sports the nba every so often makes rule changes as they try to balance the value of offense vs defense.
Note how the number of shots taken per game has changed over the years.

  1960-61,,, total shots - 293.6 (218.8 fga plus 74.8 fta) - 2p% - 41.5%
  1980-81,,, total shots - 234.6 (176.8 fga plus 57.8 fta) - 2p% - 48.6%
  1985-86,,, total shots - 237.8 (177.2 fga plus 60.6 fta) - 2p% - 49.6
  2003 04,,, total shots - 208.0 (159.6 fga plus 48.4 fta) - 2p% - 45.9%
  2017-18,,, total shots - 215.6 (172.2 fga plus 43.4 fta) - 2p% - 50.7%
  2018-19,,, total shots - 231.4 (181.8 fga plus 49.6 fta) - 2p% - 51.0%

  The offense bottomed out in 2003-04 and time will tell how this years figures will pan out.
  Other than the free throw attempts the last 2 years are similar to those of the 1980's.
  A huge drop in free throw attempts when compared to the Russell years.
 
    swish

Just to update on my earlier post. I "chatted" with AT&T/Uverse about my dilemma of the Celtics being blacked out on LP of the ORL game that was on NBATV Monday. They hooked me up going forward so now I have NBATV, plus 100 more channels for $1 more per month!

Just a note and heads up for those with existing cable packages! I always seem to find the fly in the ointment or discover the one line of programming code someone didn't think of! It really is uncanny. Laughable at times...

db

swish wrote:Like other sports the nba every so often makes rule changes as they try to balance the value of offense vs defense.
Note how the number of shots taken per game has changed over the years.

  1960-61,,, total shots - 293.6 (218.8 fga plus 74.8 fta) - 2p% - 41.5%
  1980-81,,, total shots - 234.6 (176.8 fga plus 57.8 fta) - 2p% - 48.6%
  1985-86,,, total shots - 237.8 (177.2 fga plus 60.6 fta) - 2p% - 49.6
  2003 04,,, total shots - 208.0 (159.6 fga plus 48.4 fta) - 2p% - 45.9%
  2017-18,,, total shots - 215.6 (172.2 fga plus 43.4 fta) - 2p% - 50.7%
  2018-19,,, total shots - 231.4 (181.8 fga plus 49.6 fta) - 2p% - 51.0%

  The offense bottomed out in 2003-04 and time will tell how how this years figures will pan out.
  Other than the free throw attempts the last 2 years are similar to those of the 1980's.
  A huge drop in free throw attempts when compared to the Russell years.
 
    swish

Swish thanks for sharing this information. One somewhat interesting stat is FTA.

As you know the 3 for 2 rule produced more FT back in the day.

Anyways it looks like the pace of the game is picking up again. People want to see scoring and lots of it. Teams that can score but can also play defense within the current rules have a great shot to win.

dboss, What was the 3 for 2 rule?

I can answer that one, worchester. Once you reached the penalty for fouls to take free throws, the NBA let you shoot 3 free throws to make 2. It took the pressure off the players who couldn't shoot free throws knowing they had 3 shots to make 2 free throws. If they made the first 2, you were done. If you bricked the first and made the next two or missed the second and made the 1st and 3rd you were done. If you really sucked and missed all three, the coach pulled you out of the game! JK

db

P.S. This also brings up the 3-on-3 halftime contests as well as Red's Basketball Tips back in the day!

dbrown - I could have really used a 4 to make 2 rule, since my ft % is about 25%.

That would have helped! That's about the time I came into the NBA side of things...Late 70's. I was following college basketball with the NC State/David Thompson era here in Raleigh and discovered where the college ball players went after 4 years of play. This was on the cusp of the Magic vs. Bird NCAA 1979 Finals as well.

You must have come into following the Celtics after that or right around that time? There's only a few of us that remember the last years of the ABA and the merger.

db

Interesting comments from Coach Stevens.  He said he thought the offense was the best it has been so far.  They were just missing their shots.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/scuffling-celtics-search-their-own-magic

They did miss countless wide open shots however 44% of them were 3's.

Brad is quite confident that his guys are going to start hitting those shots.

The biggest free throw shooting rule change was enacted in 1972-73 - when the league no longer awarded a free throw, for a non shooting foul, until the 5th team foul of any period.

swish