thoughts on a Anthony Davis for Tatum trade?

since Tatum said this earlier:

It's no secret that the Celtics have also been eyeing AD. Boston president Danny Ainge has stockpiled loads of talent to go along with a plethora of high draft picks for this very purpose. The Lakers won’t be able to match what the Celtics can offer, especially if Jayson Tatum is involved. (Even Tatum couldn't deny Davis' value: "I'd trade me too for Anthony Davis.")



what are everyone's thoughts about a trade for Davis this off-season with Tatum being the main talent being sent to NO?

Also, what is the max deal you would sent out? Remember we will need to at least come close to matching salarys.

here are links to the salary info

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2019/

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-orleans-pelicans/cap/2019/


Davis has a $27M salary with a possible 15% trade kicker......he may pass on that go to a team he wants.

Tatums' salary is $7.8M so there is work to do.


my thoughts:

While I feel Tatum may become one of the top 5 players in the NBA in the future, Davis already is at that level, He also plays a position we will need to address, while Hayward and Tatum are both wings. Davis is only 26YO now, so barring injury he should be a top 5 player for the next 5-7 years.


SO I would do that deal, if it becomes possible.


now what I think it might take?

For me Trading Smart and /or Brown WITH Tatum would leave us too weak at the wings/SG spots.

so I would try to re-sign Morris or Rozier  at a market deal ( say $14M per year) to trade him with Tatum. Rozier would be more likely as he is a RFA and we can control him.

That would put us sending out about $21M or so back.

One the new NBA years starts the draft picks have a salary value for the cap. so we could send two of our first this coming year along with Tatum and Morris to make the deal work cap wise.

the problem  with the draft picks are, we have to select the players before hand.


so
Tatum
Rozier(re-signed)
Kings pick (top 10?)
clippers or our own pick this year

that would be the ideal trade for me. However I feel there are too many  moving parts (Rozier re-signed and agree to trade, picking players in the draft for NO ) to make it likely.


Without a Rozier or Morris sign and trade we would be up against something like

Tatum $7.8M
Smart $12.5M
Brown $6.5M

along with draft picks. That is way too much for me to swallow myself

Kdp,
Hard to part with JT but yes, I'd trade him for AD.
Your first suggestion - not sure if it works money-wise. Second - NO. Too much, even for AD.

AK

Kdp59

As I unravel a potential trade for Davis and pull the strings in a way to make it happen everything comes undone.  Those damn strings are not attached to anything.

I do not think you can use Rozier and/or Morris to make a deal.  You would first need to determine if NOLA wants them and how much would NOLA want to pay them.  Both are FA Morris is unrestricted.  He can decide where he wants to go.  So he cannot be a real considerstion.  Holiday is their PG making big money so they may or may not see Terry as a good fit.  Sign and trades are difficult to pull off.  Doing two of them seems unrealistic.

I think if you look at this from the Celtics perspective you will fall short.  Try looking at it from Nola's perspective.

Tatum has upside but I do not know how high that is.  Is he a 20 ppg guy is he a 30 ppg.  ?? At what point does he become unguardable?  AD is 25 and is already there.  NOLA expects a boatload of assets.  Terry and Morris do not curl the toes.

Playing Devil's advocate I want Tatum, Smart, Brown, Williams and two of the best 1st rounders.  Lets do business.

No.

Tatum is the one player off the table. You can have Brown, Smart, Williams any picks you want - Not Tatum.

In 20 years, Tatum have #0 in the rafters and a bust in Springfield.

It will take 2 out of Smart, Tatum and Brown. Smart would have to be a given for salary purposes.

Anybody getting cold feet?

I am. Sure wish we'd give more minutes to Williams now.

You can only give up one of Tatum or Brown, not both....

thanks everyone

Tatum would certainly be a hard trade to swallow for me too, if it were one for one or even Davis for tatum a couple firsts..I could get that.

I agree dboss, NO will want the farm, the land and the sky too in any trade. its hard to see how a deal can come together for sure.

i was saying ONE of Morris or Rozier (with Rozier being easier to make happen being a RFA) along with Tatum and picks as my best deal for the Celtics.

If the price of Anthony Davis is Jayson Tatum, he's gone.

Jayson Tatum may have "0" raised to the rafters if he stays in Boston, might have a bust in the HOF too, but Anthony Davis is an absolute first-round lead pipe cinch for the HOF.  It's the difference between what we think Jayson Tatum will turn into based upon his potential, and the undeniable already existing reality of Anthony Davis.

Danny will take the All-NBAer in the hand over one or two in the bush.  Count on it.

Anthony Davis Career highlights and awards

5× NBA All-Star (2014–2018)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2017)
3× All-NBA First Team (2015, 2017, 2018)
NBA All-Defensive First Team (2018)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2015, 2017)
3× NBA blocks leader (2014, 2015, 2018)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2013)
NCAA champion (2012)
NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player (2012)
Consensus national player of the year (2012)
Consensus first-team All-American (2012)
NABC Defensive Player of the Year (2012)
USBWA National Freshman of the Year (2012)
SEC Player of the Year (2012)
SEC Defensive Player of the Year (2012)
Jordan Brand Classic co-MVP (2011)


bob


.

Bob we know he’s the best big in the game.

We really can't even begin to deal until July....but we would somehow have to draft to NOLA's liking before. How would that work?

worcester wrote:We really can't even begin to deal until July....but we would somehow have to draft to NOLA's liking before. How would that work?

exactly...not the first time a deal was done that way though

cowens/oldschool wrote:Bob we know he’s the best big in the game.

Cow,

That's my point. It's not a choice between a potential, or even likely, future superstar and a really good big. It's between a potential superstar and a 25 year old that is already the best big in the game.

In a game where there can only be 5 players on the floor at any one time having the best player at his position forces opposing coaches to throw everything they've been doing away and change to deal with them. Anthony Davis commands double-teams. The list of players that regularly command double-teams is pretty short. Kyrie is getting double-teamed because everybody knows you have to get the ball out of his hands. LeBron gets doubled for the same reason. Embiid. Tatum? No.


bob


.

Bob he’s historically great, he and Giannis are better than KG and Duncan IMHO and that’s saying a lot...!!!! Now can they stay healthy and get the right pieces or the right situation.

From where I am sitting, a lot of this Davis stuff gets out of hand as the summer of 2019 gets closer.

To compare Tatum in 2019 to AD is of course, crazy. But you also cannot forget the value of the contract of a young player like Jayson. He is locked in for 2 more years on a very beneficial rookie deal. Davis is likely to earn 30 million dollars A YEAR MORE less than Tatum.

This is a big deal. The Celtics cannot have Kyrie, Hayward and AD all on max deals and have much left for anything but scraps (or people on rookie deals like Tatum)

For Cow - saying AD is better than Tim Duncan....I have to say how soon we forget.

Timmy was a 15 time All Star, 15 Time All NBA, 15 Time All Defensive Team, 5x NBA Champion, 2x League MVP, 3x Finals MVP, ROY - For my money, the best PF in NBA History.

Davis may get there someday - but he has a LONG way to go to match Tim Duncan.

Thoughts on a trade:
It’s complicated. If a deal is done, Ainge/Zarren will need to leave a strong supporting cast to make it worthwhile. Kyrie and Horford likely have to stay. We’ll need one of Brown and Smart and one of Tatum and Hayward still on the team. Baynes, Theis, Ojeleye would probably all still be with team as well.

The stark reality involving the acquisition through a trade for a top 5 player in the NBA who is only 25 years old demands that a team parts with a player that is the centerpiece for that trade.

When Boston made the block buster trade for KG, Al Jefferson was the centerpiece for making that trade possible.  Al was a double double guy when he got traded averaging 16 PPG and 11 Rebounds the two following years with Sota he average 21 and 11 and 23 and 11.

I agree with Bob that Tatum would be the must have player if Nola was willing to deal with us.

Tatum has the skills to be a great player but he is far from that and we really do not know what his ceiling is.  However he is only 20 years old.  That dude is still a kid.

I agree with Kleen regarding Tim Duncan.  I think we see Davis as a super athlete and Duncan is a bread and butter type of guy that just wins championships.  Davis has not won anything.  In many respects he too is about potential for his skills and potential to take a good team to the next level.  But Make no bones about it.  I think Davis is an absolute stud.

Tatum is expendable but are the Celtics ready to part with both Smart and Tatum or Smart and Brown.  If Rozier, Smart and Brown were gone the Celtics would not be as good defensively.  Offensively they would be a juggernault by adding Davis.  

Nothing is going to happen anytime soon.  If Boston wins the title all bets are off.  Davis's value to the team would decrease.  I do not think they can win the title so we will see what Danny does.  I really believe that Davis is his next target.

KyleCleric wrote:Thoughts on a trade:
It’s complicated. If a deal is done, Ainge/Zarren will need to leave a strong supporting cast to make it worthwhile. Kyrie and Horford likely have to stay. We’ll need one of Brown and Smart and one of Tatum and Hayward still on the team. Baynes, Theis, Ojeleye would probably all still be with team as well.

Kyle I think you are absolutely on target here.

mrkleen09 wrote:From where I am sitting, a lot of this Davis stuff gets out of hand as the summer of 2019 gets closer.

To compare Tatum in 2019 to AD is of course, crazy.  But you also cannot forget the value of the contract of a young player like Jayson.  He is locked in for 2 more years on a very beneficial rookie deal.  Davis is likely to earn 30 million dollars A YEAR MORE less than Tatum.  

This is a big deal.  The Celtics cannot have Kyrie, Hayward and AD all on max deals and have much left for anything but scraps (or people on rookie deals like Tatum)

For Cow - saying AD is better than Tim Duncan....I have to say how soon we forget.

Timmy was a 15 time All Star, 15 Time All NBA, 15 Time All Defensive Team, 5x NBA Champion, 2x League MVP, 3x Finals MVP, ROY - For my money, the best PF in NBA History.

Davis may get there someday - but he has a LONG way to go to match Tim Duncan.

And San Antonio began to win the day he stepped on the court. Yeah, David Robinson was there but they weren’t winning. AD has yet to win more than a few playoff rounds. No comparison-yet!

I think about this subject all the time, and, there is no doubt that Davis would set this team up for a while, as long as Kyrie is still here.
The subject came up on Early Edition, with Blakey and (ugh) Chris Gasper being asked the question “Buy or Sell...will Kyrie be with this team next year? Blakey said 100 percent, yes. Naturally, Gasper said no. So I wonder, we can worry about AD but if Kyrie is not here, will he even want to come here? I know....these are all questions we will not have the answer to for a long time, but I am not so sure this guy will be headed to Boston in the summer

My eye test says AD has a much more fluid and higher skilled game than Duncan and I loved Duncan. AD and Giannis both can do so much more face up and get their shots off so much easier in a flash or blur than KG or Duncan. I know the 2 old timers were the standard for so many years and we’re great players, but these 2 are the next standard. I would agree both have to do a lot more winning going forward to be considered in the same class of KG and Duncan, but both these kids do a lot of stuff the old greats just didn’t do.

Cow Skillwise the freak and AD are off the charts.  Great players rarely win without a strong supporting cast.  KG did not get his until he joined Boston.  Duncan had Robinson early on as well as a great collection of excellent players.  

AD would be great with Boston but may never win in NOLA.

Thanks dboss I don’t mean to disrespect 2 all-time great bigs, but the skill level of both these guys AD and Greek Freak we’ve never seen on a 7 footer before. Those guys have every move close to the basket, but they move like guards on the perimeter, get up shots so easy, they obviously rebound and defend....again don’t mean to take anything away from KG and Duncan.

Be careful what you wish for you might just get it. I know that Davis puts up great numbers every game but he really hasn't done anything as far as advancing a team with last year the exception. We trade all these assets for him and all of a sudden we aren't loaded with young players that are only going to get better and better and we will have a couple of huge contracts and nothing with them.

How quickly we forget how high we were on the young guns last year as they fought their way to the conf. finals. They haven't developed like they should have for whatever reason from last year to this year. I personally blame that on Brad. I am sure others have their reasons. On lesser teams with these guys getting more run we would be saying "why did we let this guy go?"

As good as Kyrie is I don't think he actually makes his team mates better. I bet most of his assists go to Horford. Even tonight you see these guys playing well when Kyrie was out. This happened last year and this year too.

Before I start getting hammered by you guys, I love Kyrie, especially his recent game with his assists which I would rather see than his point totals. He can score when he wants, anytime. I also love Davis, and I would venture to say I have seen him play as much or more than most. I want him on the team but not at the expense of giving up the farm. All Danny's work to build this team with players and future picks and to see most of it gone is not the right thing to do.

Next year with Davis would probably include Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford with huge contracts. One of them would be gone on the trade. Any players we got to keep would be wanting to get paid within a year. Not much money left for them.

Next year with Davis would probably include Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford with huge contracts. One of them would be gone on the trade. Any players we got to keep would be wanting to get paid within a year. Not much money left for them.

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not with any of the deals I proposed. You also have to remember that next year is Horfords final year of his deal.  Which means Boston would have Irving, Davis and Hayward under max deals.


as an example, lets say a deal gets done with Tatum, a Re-signed Rozier and the Kings pick and Clippers pick in this years draft along with the Memphis pick  the year after.

That deal may be hard for NO to pass on IF Davis tells them he wants out.


what would that leave on the roster"?

Davis
Horford
Hayward
Smart
Irving

Bench:

Brown
Baynes
Semi
Rob Williams
Yabusele

Our own late draft pick makes 11 players.

Player Danny can re-sign being over the cap:

Morris
Theis
Wannamaker

If all three were re-signed thats 14 players

Danny would have the mid level exception and minimum vet deals also to fill out the roster. If say Morris leaves.


you are correct in that the cap issues would be rough. even when Horfords deal expires, we would likely be over the tax line still. Re-signing Brown would be do-able but replacing Horford may be difficult in the future.