Should the Knicks Try to Trade for Kyrie Irving Now?

Apologies to all board members who feel nausea when trade rumors circle their favorite players, but this one is kind of fun:

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/02/01/kyrie-irving-trade-rumors-knicks-celtics-2019-nba-free-agency


Should the Knicks Try to Trade for Kyrie Irving Now?

As the wave of earth-shaking NBA news rumbles on this week—here’s something to chew on until the next bit of news breaks. With the Celtics, Knicks and Pelicans all approaching uncertain junctures and the trade deadline on the horizon, the domino effect of Anthony Davis’s trade request on the entire league requires some additional thought. Here, then, is a scenario that could work to satisfy all three parties.

First, a quick rundown of an increasingly league-wide epidemic of superstar unhappiness. The Knicks made a clear statement of intent by dealing Kristaps Porzingis on Thursday: New York is placing all their chips on bringing in superstar talent. Most signs point to the Knicks targeting Kevin Durant, who is expected to take meetings and look at his options this summer, and Kyrie Irving, who is expected to opt out of the final year of his deal in Boston. Irving’s comments on Friday—intimating he would keep all of his options open in free agency—corroborate recent rumblings around the league that he is far from a lock to remain a member of the Celtics, despite more or less verbally committing to re-signing before the season.

Meanwhile, the specter of a Davis trade—and his camp’s machinations to land him with the Lakers—continues to hang over the entire league. The primary reason why the Pelicans can afford to wait to make a deal is because the Celtics can come to the table after the season with young talent and multiple first-round picks. The reason why Boston has to wait is because they can’t simultaneously roster Davis and Kyrie Irving, because both are signed to designated rookie extensions, of which teams are only allowed to have one on payroll. The prospect of Boston’s best offer gives New Orleans immediate leverage over Los Angeles and any other bidder going into Thursday’s deadline, no matter how much Davis’ agent, Rich Paul, attempts to get the point across that they are not interested in signing with the Celtics long-term.

MANNIX: Knicks Take Big Swing With Porzingis Trade—Will It Be Worth It?

There are a number of crucial contingencies with this scenario—which make it speculative, to be fair, but think about it. Assume that Boston knows it might lose Irving. Assume that the Celtics knew they had enough to acquire Davis from the Pelicans before the deadline if they moved Irving first. We know for a fact the Knicks want star talent, and that the Knicks are now armed with forthcoming cap space and future first-rounders after dealing Kristaps Porzingis. New York could bid on multiple max free agents, but they are also in terrific position to trade for one. With Irving’s situation now publicly in flux, the Knicks should at least be calling Boston.

Of course, there is the possibility that Irving might sign in New York this summer anyway, which is fair, but there are a number of advantages the Knicks would gain by acquiring him immediately. The primary reason is the value of owning Irving’s Bird Rights, which they can only acquire via trade. That would allow New York to go over the salary cap when re-signing him this summer, allows them to offer him the most long-term money, and most importantly, puts their first superstar in play before free agency even begins.

There is a legitimate perception that the Knicks can’t keep their best players happy; the Porzingis fallout and the history of ownership under James Dolan mostly affirms that. The optics of sitting down with, say, Kevin Durant and already having Irving committed are immensely valuable when it comes to making New York a destination. Going to get Irving demonstrates the Knicks are serious, and inarguably makes for a much more convincing pitch. And the best way to guarantee you have Irving in the fold and keep him off the market is, well, to go get him.


As it stands, the Knicks can renounce the cap holds to all their free agents go into the off-season with about $24.4 million in salary on the books, with only Dennis Smith Jr., Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson and Damyean Dotson under guaranteed contract. The cap for 2019-20 is expected to be set at around $109 million, and Irving’s cap hold would be approximately 150% of his previous salary—so roughly $30.1 million—leaving the Knicks with about $54.6 million in space. That’s enough to sign a max player, use the rest of the space to fill out the supporting cast, and re-sign Irving at the end of operations to go over the cap. If nothing else, it’s entirely preferable to a scenario where the Knicks enter July with no bird in hand, only the promise of cash and what the team might look like to a prospective signing. If you’re New York and you think you can keep Irving, you’re calling Boston.

NADKARNI: The Porzingis Trade Is All About Kevin Durant for the Knicks

The math in a hypothetical Knicks/Celtics deal works something like this: for Irving at his salary number, the Knicks can offer any of their own future first-rounders or the ones they just acquired from Dallas, packaged with one of their three expiring contracts. Scenario A: New York offers DeAndre Jordan or Wesley Matthews plus two future firsts. (Because they were just acquired, Jordan and Matthews cannot be combined with any other players). Scenario B: New York offers Kanter, Kevin Knox and a future first.

If New York is serious, thinks they can legitimately land a second star, and wants to operate like a big-market team, they sacrifice the assets to do the deal. Knox’s development timeline doesn’t align with the immediacy of a Durant-Irving pairing, the Knicks will still have their own first-rounders, and if the big guns fall into place, fans would get over it. It’s scary to think about, but if the Knicks are really all-in on building a contender, they do the deal. And for what it’s worth, it would almost be foolhardy to think they’d to the Porzingis deal without knowing they had at least one big free agent on the way.

Again, from Boston’s perspective, you only do this deal operating with the knowledge that New Orleans will send you Davis. If the Celtics want to roll the dice on keeping the transcendent big man long-term, acquiring him now—with the prospect of having Davis around for not one, but two playoff runs—maximizes Boston’s window to sell him on staying. If the Celtics fear Irving will depart for nothing, then flipping whatever assets are necessary for Davis, a player who could flip the Eastern Conference for two years with his presence regardless of whether he wants to be a Laker, might be well worth it. The Celtics would also create some cap space with whichever contract they acquire from the Knicks.

SHARP: The Porzingis Trade Was Smart. Everyone Calm Down

If Boston can move Irving in the above scenario, then their offer to New Orleans for Davis could include Jaylen Brown (made easier by the hypothetical addition of Knox), Marcus Smart, Marcus Morris, and whatever number of first-rounders it would take to sway the Pelicans. It would more or less be an offer New Orleans couldn’t afford to refuse.

The Celtics could turn to the buyout market to fill out their playoff rotation, and figure it out going into next season with Davis, Gordon Hayward, Al Horford and Jayson Tatum as their principals, plus the possibility of re-signing Terry Rozier, and whatever Knox becomes. While having Irving in place would obviously help their chances of keeping Davis long-term, Boston has a creative, shrewd front office, would still have more draft picks to dangle to improve the team, and would maintain a legitimate pathway to winning the East—just maybe not this year. Still, you can argue that with Irving’s situation unstable as it is, Hayward not fully back to being himself, and Boston’s bouts of inconsistency, the likelihood of them making the Finals in 2019 remains slim. The long view here might even be more promising.

This is all speculation—that probably needs to be spelled out again—and it’s a complex scenario. But, it’s a hypothetical where all three teams win. The Knicks orient themselves to contend in the Eastern Conference next season and still have a full stash of their own draft picks; the Celtics avert the risk of Irving’s departure, inherit the best opportunity to keep Davis around, still have draft assets and get to streamline their roster creatively; the Pelicans avoid handing Davis to Los Angeles and receive the best possible haul of picks to build for the future. Far-fetched? Maybe. Sensible? Maybe more than you think.



Far-fetched? Maybe. Something Danny has considered? Very possibly since Danny probably considers everything. Obviously, many variations on this general idea are possible. Obviously a huge risk for the Celtics, and only REMOTELY makes sense if Danny really thinks Kyrie is bolting

I'd take DeAndre Jordan and Trier along with the Knicks first rounder this year for Irving right now!!

we'd get a top 3 pick and could have Zion, Barrett or Reddish. Hell IF Danny wants Zion he can just trade the the knicks, kings and even another pick to move up to #1.

we can re-sign Jordan and Rozier for Irving's next salary anyway.

I hate Divas

I am sure that Ainge has already thought of trading Irving, but now, after Irving walked back his stated love of Boston this week, I am sure that the thought of trading him has intensified.

KDP's thoughts of getting Jordan, a number 1 pick and Trier could be a good option. Trier is a good player, Jordan certainly fills the center position pretty well and the Knicks pick looks far better than any of the number one picks the Cs currently own.

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2019/02/01/danny-ainge-kyrie-irving-trade-celtics-be-bold

With Kyrie speculation rampant, Trader Danny can’t be afraid to be bold
What's a team's director of basketball operations to do?
Kyrie Irving Celtics Bench Kyrie Irving, shown on the Celtics bench during Wednesday's victory, has a lot to think about between now and his July 1 contract opt-out. So does Danny Ainge.

By Dave D'Onofrio 1:25 PM

A week ahead of the trade deadline, the Knicks and Mavericks shocked the basketball world with a bold deal that featured superstar Kristaps Porzingis as the centerpiece in a seven-player swap that also included a couple of future first-round picks. That deal came together as everyone keeps its eye on New Orleans, where the transcendentally talented Anthony Davis has demanded he be dealt as the whispers of his desire to link up with LeBron James in Los Angeles grow louder.

There are big moves being made in the NBA, involving some of the association’s bigger names.

And Danny Ainge‘s priority between now and Thursday should be to determine whether it might make sense for Boston’s biggest name to be on the move, too.

Back in October, Celtics fans never fathomed their team would face this scenario in less than four months. It was then that Kyrie Irving told a TD Garden crowd of season ticket holders, “If you guys will have me back, I plan on re-signing here next year.” Met with raucous applause, it assuaged the fears he would leave when he became a free agent in the summer, and thus spoil the plan that projected him as the anchor of Boston’s pursuit for an 18th banner.

At that same time, that plan seemed to be blossoming beautifully, with the C’s considered by many to be favorites in the Eastern Conference before the season began. Fast forward 51 games and, as Ainge charts the course for the franchise, the definitive answers he needs to get aren’t from rival executives on trade proposals.

The answers he needs are from Irving, himself.

Ainge needs to determine — even by mere instinct, if Irving won’t directly commit to anything — what the All-Star point guard is thinking about his future. And if he decides there is truth to this week’s pair of reports that Irving is leaning toward playing elsewhere next season, Trader Danny shouldn’t be shy about living up to his aggressive reputation and moving on from Kyrie before Kyrie moves on from the Celtics.

“Ask me July 1,” Irving told reporters, referring to his contract opt-out date, on Friday morning at Madison Square Garden. “At the end of the day, I’m going to do what’s best for my career and that’s just where it stands. That’s just where it stands. And my focus this season is winning a championship with the Boston Celtics. Obviously, we had goals coming into the season and the primary goal is to win a championship. So that’s where my focus is.”

Ainge told The Sports Hub on Thursday he “feel(s) like Kyrie likes it in Boston,” that his own feelings haven’t changed about the situation, and that he’s “optimistic” about the team’s chances of retaining him. But both ESPN and Bleacher Report have suggested, within NBA circles, Irving is hardly considered a sure bet to remain with the Celtics., and taking it one step further by saying Irving has some interest in going to join James in Los Angeles.

Powered by Hollywood, and rejoining James in Los Angeles, becomes a scarier possibility for C’s fans considering Irving apparently so enjoyed making his “Uncle Drew” movie that he has plans to act in a horror film after this season. If he believes having a bigger presence on screen is the next phase of his personal brand, LA is certainly an appealing destination. Even more so if the basketball side of his career is spent alongside James and, presumably, eventually, Davis.

What’s also scary is the B-R piece, from Ric Bucher, cites Irving’s interest in rejoining James as “for real” from “a source close to the Celtics.” Not a so-called league source, or a “Lakers source,” or “the general sense in talking to executives.”

Taken as truth, “a source close to the Celtics” suggests while Ainge may publicly be dismissive of Irving being a flight risk, there may be private unease. Especially when a subsequent ESPN report says the Celtics have spent about 18 months researching Davis in hopes of making a run at him, but that his interest in committing long-term to Boston is entirely predicated on the presence of Irving.

So, if Irving isn’t on board, the Celtics could theoretically trade their best assets for Davis this July, then watch him walk after a season and be back in rebuilding mode by the 2020 draft without Irving, Davis, or potentially Jayson Tatum.

That’s doomsday for a process that began with the epic return Ainge seized sending Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce to the Nets back in 2013. But after the Bleacher Report story Tuesday and ESPN’s corroboration of parts of it Wednesday, it’s a scenario that drew even closer to reality on Thursday when the Knicks traded Porzingis.

New York has always been considered a tantalizing destination for Irving, who grew up in New Jersey and who could potentially find the same type of spotlight in the Big Apple as he would in Hollywood. And now the Knicks have money to play with.

By unloading Porzingis, the team has the salary cap space to acquire not one, but two max-money players. That turns Madison Square Garden into a ripe breeding ground for the NBA’s next super team. If Irving is exploring options, he could suddenly find himself — rather than trying to lead a group of young and talented-but-unproven upstarts in Boston — paired with Davis, or Kevin Durant, or Kawhi Leonard, or Jimmy Butler under the bright lights of the world’s most famous arena.

If Ainge gets the inkling that’s become more appealing, there’s no time to waste. He should change the purpose of his pre-deadline pursuits from trying to add a piece to put around Irving to trying to get whatever he can for a pending free-agent point guard. He should try to parlay his star into something — anything — that serves a purpose in trying to ensure one player’s free-agent whims can’t derail the master plan.

It may seem like a drastic measure. It would be, undoubtedly altering the direction of the franchise in the bigger picture. But trading Irving in the next week, with the playoffs just a couple months away, would not necessarily mean Ainge was punting this season.

The 2018-19 Celtics are fast approaching the point where (in the parlance of the welcome-distraction Patriots) it is what it is and they simply are who they are. They enter Friday night at 32-19, tied for fourth in the East and 5.5 games back of the conference-leading Bucks. They’re good at home, but they’re a losing team on the road (11-13), and in the postseason were to begin today they wouldn’t have home-court advantage for one round of the playoffs, let alone two or three.

They’re a team whose pieces haven’t yet fit together properly, and doesn’t appear all that much closer to figuring it out than they were at the start of the year. And that’s been with Irving available for 43 games. The Celtics are 6-2 without him, and while that’s not a sizable enough sample to draw any meaningful conclusions, the team did advance within a win of the conference title without him last season. The Tatums, Browns, and Terry Roziers seem to thrive in his absence, most recently due to a supposedly minor hip injury.

If Ainge were to look at his roster and identify a couple of spots where a role player could come in to serve a specific purpose — say, a designated sharpshooter, and either a rim protector or veteran bench scorer — is it possible that the Celtics could actually be better suited for a playoff run without Irving? He’s so good, so skilled, and such a gifted individual scorer it’s hard to make that case in the modern NBA.

But given what they’ve been to this point, are they really suited for a significant playoff run anyway? That’s an unexpectedly hard case to make, too. And if Irving is gone at the end of the year anyway, what’s there for the Celtics to lose? Either way, they’re going to the playoffs, will need to win on the road, and haven’t yet proven the capacity to do so. At least trying to fill the holes in the roster, while hopefully also adding something of long-term benefit, gives them a fighting shot.

That said, it’s now Ainge’s job to figure out in the next five days where Irving’s focus will be in five months.

And to be ready to act quickly if the answers he’s getting privately aren’t more convincing than the ones being proffered to the public.

TheHat

This is one I keep doing a personal waffle job on, which is unusual for me.

Pay the money and keep Irving...he's one of the best scoring machines in the game.

Let Irving walk...the egotistical diva act is detrimental to the team.

I'm not even thinking trade. Unless he's signed, what team is going to take the risk? That's an awfully short-term rental. Even if it potentially puts you over the top, it also potentially disrupts your team. I think it comes down to sign or walk.

Michael Wilbon made an interesting statement about Kyrie during the post-game show last night. In comparing him to his co-anchor, Paul Pierce, he said Irving was very 'un-Celtic' like. That doesn't win or lose games, but it's an interesting comment on the team culture and history. Wilbon went on to talk about Irving becoming a distraction, and less than supportive of his young teammates. It kind of reflected my mood after hearing what has been another 24-hour Kyrie 'Me,Me,Me' act.

In what might be the worst case scenario, without Irving, the current C's are still a solid and competitive young team. We're talking about the same team that made it to the conference finals last year without Uncle. Lots to work with in upgrading the roster this off-season too.

I'm flipping my personal waffle again today, despite Kyrie's strong performance last night.

I'm getting more tired of Kyrie every day.

So for me, today, it's this;

Hey, Uncle Drew, don't let the door smack you in the ass on your way out.

Kyrie is a unique diva, on the floor he is a warrior, since we already have him, if he wants to stay, I’d keep him, he is a unique subline talent. The guy I would pass on is AD, I don’t want to gut Smart and the best wing combo to be since Jordan-Pippen, those 3 will carry us to many championships.

kdp59 wrote:I'd take DeAndre Jordan and Trier along with the Knicks first rounder this year for Irving right now!!

we'd get a top 3 pick and could have Zion, Barrett or Reddish. Hell IF Danny wants Zion he can just trade the  the knicks, kings and even another pick to move up to #1.

we can re-sign Jordan and Rozier for Irving's next salary anyway.

I hate Divas

Why would any non playoff team give up any significant assets for Irving by the trade deadline?
The Knicks would never give up their top 5 pick this year when Irving could sign with another team in 5 months.
Boston needs to have a long playoff run and hope Kyrie signs a long term deal.
Also, I expect Boston will match any offers for Rozier. Then could trade him next year just like the Clippers did with Blake Griffin.

Silly season. Kyrie isnt going anywhere.

Unless Danny knows Kyrie is leaving Danny will not trade him.  I'm getting the impression, my opinion, Kyrie and Davis are linked.  If Danny doesn't get Davis Kyrie might leave.  If he does Kyrie re-signs.  If Kyrie leaves, Davis will leave too next year.  It's in for a penny, in for a pound for Danny.  He has to swing for the fences.

As far as trading him to NY, I don't know college hoops but, if he is anywhere near what they say he is, NOBODY is trading Zion.


bob


.

I cannot wait for all the crazy talk to go away. Deadline cannot come soon enough for me. Added to the Davis talk, now Kyrie gets thrown in the mix. Thursday cam’t come soo Enid

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I cannot wait for all the crazy talk to go away. Deadline cannot come soon enough for me. Added to the Davis talk, now Kyrie gets thrown in the mix.  Thursday cam’t come soo Enid

Zion just said "it would be dope" for him to play with Kyrie and KD.

Even college kids are trying to push trades now.


bob


.

Didn’t he say he would only play for the Lakers?? What is going on with this league? This is what happens when all this tanking by teams is going on

bobheckler wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I cannot wait for all the crazy talk to go away. Deadline cannot come soon enough for me. Added to the Davis talk, now Kyrie gets thrown in the mix.  Thursday cam’t come soo Enid

Zion just said "it would be dope" for him to play with Kyrie and KD.

Even college kids are trying to push trades now.


bob


.

Bob,

What you posted about is not an accurate representation of the question that was asked to Zion and his response. He was asked what it would be like to play with KD and Kyrie. Here’s his response.

"I mean, it would be dope to play with KD and Kyrie," he said via ESPN. "But whichever team drafts me, I'll be ready to play hard and work."

Not at all a college kid looking to push trades.