Will Kyrie Irving stay with the Boston Celtics? (staff roundtable)

Will he stay or will he go now?



https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/5/11/18616110/will-kyrie-irving-stay-with-the-boston-celtics-staff-roundtable-nba-offseason-free-agency

Sam Sheehan

I lean no, but wouldn’t be surprised by anything. Irving seems to care about how he is perceived (I think most of us do) and struggled in a leadership role in Boston and both of those things will be key factors for how he handles this off season. The Celtics can offer more money and an extra year, and Irving hasn’t exactly been an ironman over his NBA career. Kyrie was visibly bothered by the negative PR of this season, and I’m just not sure relocating to another team is worth the risk, paycut, and label of “two time cut and run guy” (fair or not) it would entail. It’s going to come down to what Irving decides is best for him. Unpopular minority, here, but I think that’s fine.

Simon Pollock

Sam, you said it. Also, the great Jackie MacMullan said something similar to Zach Lowe. To paraphrase: you say you’re searching for happiness, but are you ever going to find it if you keep thinking it’s not where you are?  You overcome challenges by acknowledging and dealing with discomfort. Sitting with the reality of this season and holding oneself accountable with purpose is the only way to move through this if you’re Irving and you want to stay.  Irving loves a challenge and this is the ultimate one: can you accept disappointment and lead by example as you move through it? Or do you run from it and pretend another team has the answer.  I think we caught a glimpse of Irving starting to accept this challenge just as the team headed into the postseason. I think he wants to be a leader badly, to show toughness. And if he allows himself to accept that change and success don’t happen without hard and at times uncomfortable work, I think he might even find his happily ever after in Boston.  I think he stays.

Bobby Manning

It’s hard for me to imagine Kyrie Irving wearing a Celtics uniform again given the style with which he played in his final four games. The forcefulness and frustration that showed through his dreadful shooting performances reflected a year of disdain. I’ll admit, the surest path to contention for the Celtics involves keeping Irving and reshaping the core around him, perhaps with a more veteran cast. There’s no certainty that happens, and though I don’t have any vision into Irving’s head space, my gut says he departs this summer through a sign-in-trade. He never chose Boston, and some friction prevented this team from reaching its capabilities with him in the mix. It may not have been his fault entirely, some teams don’t mesh, but it means this one won’t come back together.  He’s gone.

Jack Noonan

After his Game 5’s performance and his antics all year long, I really can’t see Kyrie Irving coming back to the Celtics. It is tough to grapple with as he is still a top player in the league, but the body language tells me he just does not want to be on this team. For one, his style does fit well with the Celtics game plan as we saw a contrast from last year and this year. I would never go as far as saying the Celtics are better without him, but some players do not fit in certain systems. It is a shame he couldn’t adjust. Kyrie Irving is an interesting individual. He is brilliant in his own way while trying to still find himself on a deeper level. If he does in fact leave, I wish him all the best and hope he finds the happiness he always talks about searching for.

Jeff Clark

I’m still 50-50 on him staying or going, but if you made me pick one or the other I think perhaps he’s gone. One note: I don’t think the playoffs will have a huge impact on his decision. There’s a very good chance that his decision will hinge solely on what he hears through back-channels about the plans of other free agents and “pre-agents” around draft time. That could be good or bad for the Celtics. There’s also a chance that he made up his mind months ago. That could be bad for the Celtics’ chances.
As always, it is important to remember, Kyrie is a different kind of cat. The Celtics have always seemed like an ideal place for him. But as we found out this season, reality doesn’t always live up to expectations.


My comments:  I made this into a poll.  It is also a poll over at CelticsBlog.  Use the link to see the poll results there as well as the comments at the bottom.

What say you?

Boston you got to let me know
Should I stay or should I go?
If you say that you are mine
I'll be here 'til the end of time
So you got to let me know
Should I stay or should I go?

It's always tease tease tease
You're happy when I'm hittin' threes
One day is fine and next is black
So if you want me off your back
Well come on an' let me know
Should I Stay or should I go?

Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An' if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know

This indecision's buggin' me (Indecisión me molesta)
If you don't want me, set me free (Si no me quieres, librame)
Exactly who am I supposed to be (Dime! ¿Qué tengo ser?)
Don't you know which clothes even fit me? (¿Sabes que ropa me queda?)
Come on and let me know (Pero me tienes que decir)
Should I cool it or should I blow? (¿Me debo ir o quedarme?)

By the way, this poll is NOT about what you want.  It is about what you think HE will do.  You can always include your opinion as to YOUR wishes in your post, but the vote is all about what HE will do.

I think he goes.  To him, it is not about the money.  He is on a quest for his happiness and he still doesn't understand how the world works.  To him, the grass may always seem to be greener somewhere else.

I heard a saying long ago, and it is this:  "No matter where you go, there you are." Some day he will understand, but not now.

gyso

Well regardless I think and hope he will go....

I went with stays. He said he was going to and I'm old fashioned and like  to think a man's word means something and am willing to take a fella at his word until I have reason  not to, and his being batpoop  krazy (see flat earth) is not a reason to stop thinking the guys honest. There is after all diffrence in being a liar and just wrong.

I think he's going.

Boston can offer him the most money, initially, but there are a host of sweeteners to consider if it comes down to contract and dollars. He'll come out ahead, financially, somewhere.

Irving is one of the top players in the league, but simply does not mesh with the current roster or fan (over) expectations here. I don't think he has the temperament to hang in there for a couple of years while some young forwards come in and develop either.

My own personal observation is he'll probably never be happy anywhere for long. It's just the type of personality he has. Money and championships aren't the only drivers for him. They may not even be the main ones.

I see no way that Kyrie stays with Boston.
The season almost could not have ended in a worse way with Kyrie and Boston.
Kyrie seems to not like and/or have confidence in the players currently on Boston’s roster.
I don’t even know if Boston really wants to commit 4 or 5 years at max money to Kyrie.
I’m guessing that Kyrie signs this summer with one of the two New York or one of the two Los Angeles teams.

tjmakz wrote:I see no way that Kyrie stays with Boston.
The season almost could not have ended in a worse way with Kyrie and Boston.
Kyrie seems to not like and/or have confidence in the players currently on Boston’s roster.
I don’t even know if Boston really wants to commit 4 or 5 years at max money to Kyrie.
I’m guessing that Kyrie signs this summer with one of the two New York or one of the two Los Angeles teams.

I agree with you here.

do you think that if the Davis deal does not get done with the lakers, that they go hard after Irving as the big FA signing instead?

I think the table has been set for a Lebron/ irving reunion myself, Keeping Kuzma and hart around along with other middle of the road guys might be a good plan. They have the #11 pick right now, correct? there can be good value there this year for them getting a rational player.

Trading ball to Phoenix for someone like Josh jackson could make sense also as another piece.

of course signing Irving may mean they are looking for more veteran players to compete against a possibly Durantless GS team too.

what do you think they will try to do with Vogal now on board and Rambis seemingly running things?

kdp59 wrote:

tjmakz wrote:I see no way that Kyrie stays with Boston.
The season almost could not have ended in a worse way with Kyrie and Boston.
Kyrie seems to not like and/or have confidence in the players currently on Boston’s roster.
I don’t even know if Boston really wants to commit 4 or 5 years at max money to Kyrie.
I’m guessing that Kyrie signs this summer with one of the two New York or one of the two Los Angeles teams.

I agree with you here.

do you think that if the Davis deal does not get done with the lakers, that they go hard after Irving as the big FA signing instead?

I think the table has been set for a Lebron/ irving reunion myself, Keeping Kuzma and hart around along with other middle of the road guys might be a good plan. They have the #11 pick right now, correct? there can be good value there this year for them getting a rational player.

Trading ball to Phoenix for someone like Josh jackson could make sense also as another piece.

of course signing Irving may mean they are looking for more veteran players to compete against a possibly Durantless GS team too.

what do you think they will try to do with Vogal now on board and Rambis seemingly running things?

I think LA will go hard after a free agent like Kyrie and then attempt to trade for Anthony Davis. At worst, I think LA could sign a Kemba Walker or Jimmy Butler, if they want to go in that direction.
Phoenix I am sure is really hoping to draft Ja Morant.
I definitely would not trade Ball for Josh Jackson.
Jackson seems to be a tweener who doesn't do anything that well.
Even though Ingram could play shooting guard, Kyrie and Ball could work in the back court.
But I do think Ball will be traded if LA signs Kyrie or Kemba.
I know very little about Vogel and what type of a reputation he has with the players.
Hopefully the Vogel/Kidd combo keeps Lebron happy.
The Lakers have a 9.4% chance at getting a top 4 pick.
Obviously if they get lucky and get a top pick, that will add to what they can offer for Anthony Davis.

I think that a lot of teams (definitely including Boston) will have to look at Irving much differently after his season in Boston, and especially in the playoffs. I would not be too surprised to see his potential salary offers not to be at the max level even though he will not be underpaid by any stretch.

He is no longer considered as just a super player who could help any team in the league. He is still very, very talented, but now carries a lot more baggage than he did before coming to Boston.

Making a determination as to whether how he is going to fit in with your team after showing badly in 2018-19 in Boston has to be greatly considered by every team, in my opinion.

As far a coming back to the Cs, I do not see him either changing himself or the feelings that many Boston fans have of him. He will not be "easier" to play with next year for his current teammates, and as fans none of us want to see him "lead" our team with the whiney, crying and lackadaisical efforts he showed this season ever again.

I think LA will go hard after a free agent like Kyrie and then attempt to trade for Anthony Davis. At worst, I think LA could sign a Kemba Walker or Jimmy Butler, if they want to go in that direction.
Phoenix I am sure is really hoping to draft Ja Morant.
I definitely would not trade Ball for Josh Jackson.
Jackson seems to be a tweener who doesn't do anything that well.
Even though Ingram could play shooting guard, Kyrie and Ball could work in the back court.
But I do think Ball will be traded if LA signs Kyrie or Kemba.
I know very little about Vogel and what type of a reputation he has with the players.
Hopefully the Vogel/Kidd combo keeps Lebron happy.
The Lakers have a 9.4% chance at getting a top 4 pick.
Obviously if they get lucky and get a top pick, that will add to what they can offer for Anthony Davis.[/quote]



so you see a possible way to Add both Irving and Davis this off-season?
when I look at the cap issues it seems unlikely, unless irving takes some discount below the max at least.But adding both of those would certainly keep lebron interested I would think

kdp59 wrote:

I think LA will go hard after a free agent like Kyrie and then attempt to trade for Anthony Davis. At worst, I think LA could sign a Kemba Walker or Jimmy Butler, if they want to go in that direction.
Phoenix I am sure is really hoping to draft Ja Morant.
I definitely would not trade Ball for Josh Jackson.
Jackson seems to be a tweener who doesn't do anything that well.
Even though Ingram could play shooting guard, Kyrie and Ball could work in the back court.
But I do think Ball will be traded if LA signs Kyrie or Kemba.
I know very little about Vogel and what type of a reputation he has with the players.
Hopefully the Vogel/Kidd combo keeps Lebron happy.
The Lakers have a 9.4% chance at getting a top 4 pick.
Obviously if they get lucky and get a top pick, that will add to what they can offer for Anthony Davis.

so you see a possible way to Add both Irving and Davis this off-season?
when I look at the cap issues it seems unlikely, unless irving takes some discount below the max at least.But adding both of those would certainly keep lebron interested I would think

[/quote]

The Lakers would have to sign Kyrie first, then could trade Ball, Ingram, Wagner, Hart, Bonga and Jemerrio Jones (plus draft picks) for Davis.
This trade could work but only after June 30th.
The Lakers don't need Kuzma's salary to make the numbers work, but the $1,416,852 salary for Jemerrio Jones would have to be guaranteed in order for LA to trade him.

Whether Kyrie stays or gos depends on a wide range of factors' such as cotract structure, whether he would prefer to move on or shore up his Celtic legacy, whether he and another star player present themselves as a package , his preferred geographical location, whether he really got along with his teammates in Boston as badly as rumored etc. I also believe there may be some question whether his effect on team chemistry causes Celtics to move on. Personally, I would prefer Brogdon or Walker, if the Celtics are going to stick with a motion offense. Maybe some kind of sign and trade is possible if Irving okays it. Too many factors to gauge, imo

I have been saying for over the second half of the season, that this would be not just HIS decision. Wyc and Steve were not happy the way this team developed (or didn’t) and all the negative press surrounding Kyrie. I feel that this will come down to a mutual departure. When he first started all the mouthing off about the team, and it became obvious I said that there is a book out there
“WHEREVER YOU GO, THERE YOU ARE””. So he is taking all his issues with him for what he thinks is a greener pasture, and will find himself in the same position.
Now that it is obvious that he has had issues on both teams he has been on, other teams are going to be Leary of bringing him in as a piece to a team that is in the middle of a good building process (BrooklynP and have him disrupt their team also. LA seems to be the place for him since LeBron will keep him in tow.’

What a message he will be sending to the rest of the NBA, I am a great player, I love to score, I am not really crazy about defense and don’t blame me if things go wrong.

I guess I am saying he will go, but there is something inside of me that wishes he will do a lot of soul searching, and want to make things right here. He is just so damn talented.

Dbrown, again, ever the optotomist!!!

Rosalie, my optimism got us bounced out in the 2nd Round! And if I have optimism it is CLEARLY from you and Mr. Pateince, NYCelt! It's an honor to post next to you two for help us all keep the main thing the main thing!

db

P.S. I actually voted to pull the plug on Mr. Irving but I really had to think about it for some time before pushing the button. Glad I don't have DA's job!

If we are to believe the mouth that roared and his side kick, Kyrie and KD are 95 percent guarantee to be heading to New York. So, the question is....does he share his decision with the Celtics before the draft, or Jump ship in July like he owes "nobody nothing" in his words. The more I read, the madder I get at this whole debacle. Was everything for a show for him? Was this always in his mind once he left Cleveland? Are the stories that he "is haunted" by the pass he threw to Hayward that led to his injury just for show? He certainly didn't show much concern on the court or help for the guy.

I have tried hard, really hard to believe this will all work out, but the more I read, the madder I get. Let's see what the future brings

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/kyrie-irving-join-lebron-james-lakers-no-way-hell-source-tells-stephen-smith?cid=Yahoo&partner=ya4nbcs



Kyrie Irving to join LeBron James, Lakers? 'No way in hell', source tells Stephen A. Smith




By Nick Goss May 13, 2019 12:27 PM



Talk of a potential reunion between Kyrie Irving and LeBron James on the Los Angeles Lakers picked up steam over the weekend when ESPN's Brian Windhorst recently said on his podcast, "Brian Windhorst and the Hoop Collective", that the Boston Celtics guard "has had discussions with people about playing for the Lakers."

Irving and James were teammates on the Cleveland Cavaliers for three seasons and reached the NBA Finals in each of those campaigns, including the franchise's first ever championship in 2016.

The C's guard wanted out of Cleveland before the 2017-18 season and not wanting to play with James was among the reported reasons for his trade request. Irving talked during this past season about apologizing to James for the way things transpired during their time together in Cleveland, and that led some people to believe a reunion actually was possible.

However, ESPN's Stephen A. Smith revealed during Monday's episode of "First Take" a text exchange he had with people close to Irving's family, and they were emphatic that an Irving-James partnership in Los Angeles isn't going to happen.

"From what I'm told, it's not going to happen," Smith said. "I got a text message from folks close to Kyrie's family, within the hour, as we were teasing this subject. Quote: 'There is no way in hell he's going to LA. I don't give a damn what anybody says, knock that down for us right now please. He ain't going to LA.' That's what they say.

Smith tweeted Saturday that from what he's heard, there's a 95 percent chance Irving and Golden State Warriors forward Kevin Durant are planning on going to the New York Knicks in NBA free agency this summer. He re-iterated that point Monday on "First Take."

"From everything that I've been hearing over the last few days, Kyrie Irving is heading to New York City," Smith said. "Kyrie Irving is heading to Madison Square Garden with Kevin Durant. People in his inner circle are trying to bring the Nets into the mix, but clearly New York is the destination. The likelihood is it will be MSG."

Irving struggled in the playoffs for the Celtics, who saw their 2019 playoff run ended in disappointing fashion in a five-game second-round loss to the Milwaukee Bucks.

Despite his struggles at the end of the season for Boston, Knicks fans almost certainly would welcome Irving to New York City with open arms. The Knicks franchise hasn't won a title since 1973, it's made only two NBA Finals appearances (1994 and 1999) since that championship, and it has reached the playoffs just four times in the last 18 seasons (and not once since 2013). Irving also grew up in New Jersey, so he has a local connection to basketball in the Big Apple.

Irving did not go into detail when asked about his upcoming free agency after the Celtics were eliminated from the playoffs last week, and it's possible he still hasn't made up his mind. The Celtics should try everything to re-sign him, but it appears they will have plenty of competition, which is to be expected when talking about a player of Irving's caliber.


bob


.

RosalieTCeltics wrote:If we are to believe the mouth that roared and his side kick, Kyrie and KD are 95 percent guarantee to be heading to New York.  So, the question is....does he share his decision with the Celtics before the draft, or Jump ship in July like he owes "nobody nothing" in his words. The more I read, the madder I get at this whole debacle.  Was everything for a show for him? Was this always in his mind once he left Cleveland? Are the stories that he "is haunted" by the pass he threw to Hayward that led to his injury just for show? He certainly didn't show much concern on the court or help for the guy.  

I have tried hard, really hard to believe this will all work out, but the more I read, the madder I get. Let's see what the future brings

I wouldn't give any validity to anyone's opinion about free agency between now and July 1st.
Stephen A is now referencing supposed texts between him and a friend of Kyrie's family and relating that on ESPN for millions of people to hear.
Really, a friend of one of Kyrie's family members...??? LOL.

Steven A might be right in the end about Kyrie and Durant, and he could be wrong just like all of us have our opinions and will be right or wrong.

He should go to LA to play with his father. Kyrie is clearly not an Alpha Dog.

An in the meantime, Danny should have a long talk with Brad Stevens. The inmates cannot run the asylum and he had no control over this year for long stretches of the season. If he isnt capable of stepping it up, might be time to slide back to the NCAA.

mrkleen09 wrote:He should go to LA to play with his father.

mrkleen09 wrote: Danny should have a long talk with Brad Stevens.  The inmates cannot run the asylum and he had no control over this year for long stretches of the season.  If he isnt capable of stepping it up, might be time to slide back to the NCAA.

I think Stevens gets another season before his head is on the chopping block. My guess is he gets two strikes. Repeat this season and he's gone. Improve the finish and he gets yet another season added onto his stay in Boston.

mrkleen09 wrote:He should go to LA to play with his father.  Kyrie is clearly not an Alpha Dog.

An in the meantime, Danny should have a long talk with Brad Stevens.  The inmates cannot run the asylum and he had no control over this year for long stretches of the season.  If he isnt capable of stepping it up, might be time to slide back to the NCAA.

Hire Perk as an assistant coach, he’ll get in the faces of these young punks if they need it.... Lol

I saw a lot of clips of Kyrie shouting, shaking his head, waving his hands right at Stevens during playoffs, not so much during the game, but in coverage of the game after the game. He and Brad obviously had a few disagreements.....

Six years of the rebuild is now history and still no .695 plus year on the books - lose Irving this year and Horford next year and we could be staring at several new faces and another rebuild.

  swish

I figured I would cast my vote, so as usual I am on the side of the contrarians.

I voted he stays.

I do not think he wants to leave because to do so would be an admission on his part that he was not able to achieve his goals and secondly I do not think Danny wants him to walk for nothing especially since there is no viable replacement on the roster for him.

Since there are other threads covering Kyrie in particular and other points of interest I will post under those as well.

I don't want him, but I bet Danny does.