US White vs US Blue Scrimmage

Just watching the scrimmage between the two USA basketball teams.  The blue team consisting of Kemba,  Jaylen, and Jason.  Haven't seen Smart on the floor yet.  Blue team are blowing out the white team.  Kemba has played pretty good  probably around 10 points.  Jaylen has not looked good today,  not sure if he has scored any points.  He started along with Kemba,  but starting the second half had 3 fouls called on him the first minute and 15 seconds,  2 charges and a defensive foul.  Tatum has played really well.  6-8 from the field with 17 points and has blocked two shots with a 4 rebounds. He hit 3 quick threes on no dribble shots,  and finished two drives,  getting fouled on one and finishing the other with his left hand.    Hope this is a sign of things to come.    I have like most of the shots Kemba has taken.   They are starting 4th quarter now.

Very few dunks by either team. Not use to seeing so few dunks.

Chris Middleton has looked not so good.  Fox has looked pretty good.

Reporters said the white team had been beating the blue team recently in the scrimmages but the blue team is winning by about 30.

Greg Anthony is raving about Tatum's offense and his defense for the night. He probably had the most impressive game of anyone.

Tatum was unbelievable, really decisive, just goes right into attack mode. Besides the 3’s and finishes, had a really strong post up bam!! Like Bernard King

If this is what’s coming, we’re gonna have a great year!!

Not sure if its a replay or not but there is another game on NBA tv tomorrow nite at 10:30 central time in case anyone wants to watch it.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Tatum was unbelievable, really decisive, just goes right into attack mode. Besides the 3’s and finishes, had a really strong post up bam!! Like Bernard King

If this is what’s coming, we’re gonna have a great year!!

I remember Kings best few years, he was simply unstoppable. Everyone wants to take about these players today and act like everyone of them are the second coming, but the 60-80's had a bunch of players that are forgottenand would be superstars deluxe in todays game. King would average 30 points a game, easy, if his knees held out with the less contact today.

tardust wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Tatum was unbelievable, really decisive, just goes right into attack mode. Besides the 3’s and finishes, had a really strong post up bam!! Like Bernard King

If this is what’s coming, we’re gonna have a great year!!

I remember Kings best few years,   he was simply unstoppable.   Everyone wants to take about these players today and act like everyone of them are the second coming,  but the 60-80's had a bunch of players that are forgottenand  would be superstars deluxe in todays game.  King would average 30 points a game, easy,  if his knees held out with the less contact today.

Bernard was unstoppable for 3-4 years, couldn’t believe how much he improved when he got to Knicks, could do it all, no one could play him in the post, he was so automatic. His offense was really relentless. Barkley, K Malone, Worthy, Dominique and Dr J to name some that could really play from that era, then later Clyde Drexler, Scottie Pippen and I can only imagine how great Len Bias would have been. These were all the guys Larry, Magic  and MJ would have to go thru to get titles every year....

tardust wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Tatum was unbelievable, really decisive, just goes right into attack mode. Besides the 3’s and finishes, had a really strong post up bam!! Like Bernard King

If this is what’s coming, we’re gonna have a great year!!

I remember Kings best few years,   he was simply unstoppable.   Everyone wants to take about these players today and act like everyone of them are the second coming,  but the 60-80's had a bunch of players that are forgottenand  would be superstars deluxe in todays game.  King would average 30 points a game, easy,  if his knees held out with the less contact today.

It's my opinion that the players of the 50's and 60's (Cousy's era) were vastly inferior to the modern era NBA player - and it appears that Cousy is of the same opinion.

A recent interview with Cousy below.


Reply with quoteBob Cousy will receive the Presidential Medal for Freedom 8-22 at the White House Empty Bob Cousy will receive the Presidential Medal for Freedom 8-22 at the White House
Post by worcester on Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:40 pm

Late this afternoon I listened with delight to Bob Cousy holding court with Eddie Johnson and and Justin Termini on Sirius XM NBA radio. Do track it down somehow. It was 45 minutes of the best Celtic and NBA talk I've heard in years. Cooz said what he was most proud of was the Celts winning 11 championships in 13 years (he was there for six of them), and that he started the NBA Players Association at a time when he was the face and drawing card of the NBA and thus the only player the owners could not bully into backing down. He laughed to recount that he had been the highest paid player in 1963 earning a whopping $35,000! He said that no one could ever imagine back then an NBA player making $40 million a year. He is really happy to have played a part in that process.

Cooz went on and on about how Russ was the greatest champion in any sport because what he did for the Celts. Bill's first NBA game was late, like December, and he only played 16 minutes, but the impression he left his teammates was, "Hmm. This guy might be able to play some defense." Bob thinks that to this day no other NBA player has matched Russell's prowess as a shot blocker. Cooz said Russ was a superb track and field athlete and could easily play in today's NBA, unlike most of his contemporary centers who were just too slow and unathletic, which was not the hindrance then which it would be today. He thinks today's players are much much better than he and the players of his era were (with exceptions like Russ), but he also thinks Tommy Heinsohn is the most under rated top 50 player of all time. Tommy was always in the shadow of Russ and Cooz and did not get the credit for his great accomplishments as a player. However, Cooz said that none of the Celts on his teams cared about their stats. The only ONLY thing that mattered was getting that championship banner at the end of the season. They were a team,Team, Team. Team. Justin then brought up about Kyrie and how he dissed the Celtics. Cooz wouldn't comment except to say he did not know Kyrie well enough to talk about it. Cooz also waxed nostalgic about Arnold who he thought of foremost a great businessman more than a coach. He said Arnold was so smart at evaluating and acquiring talent and motivating players. Cooz also said in the beginning they played 23 exhibition games a season plus a 69 game regular schedule in 1951, 72 game regular season in 1956, and then eventually an 80 game schedule in 1963, plus the playoffs.

Coz also told about his 15 minute telephone conversation wit President Trump in December 2018 who told him he'd be getting the award soon (Tiger winning the Master's pushed Cooz back to August). #45 inquired about the health of Russ, John H., and Sam J., and Trump really gave Cooz a sense that he knew a LOT about the Celtics. As he should!

Cooz was quite humble in the interview yet so very funny and sharp as a tack. I admire the man immensely and most of all for the human qualities he showed in the following interview. (His daughter Patricia is seated to his left in one of the photos. She went to high school with my sister and I met her at my sis' 50th birthday party.)

swish

Swish we are in agreement of the 50’s and 60’s being inferior, however the 80’s, mid 80’s could hold their own with any era....I’d still take that 86 Celtic team over any team anytime, anywhere....

Hi,
Here's the schedule for USA Basketball team: https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2019/08/mnt-nba-tv-announcement.aspx

AK

cowens/oldschool wrote:Swish we are in agreement of the 50’s and 60’s being inferior, however the 80’s, mid 80’s could hold their own with any era....I’d still take that 86 Celtic team over any team anytime, anywhere....

oldschool

 That 85-86 Celtic team (my favorite Celtic Team) was just a super,super team - but vastly superior shooting percentages by the 2016-17 golden State team would make them my favorite to top the Celts. Too bad that we can only speculate on that matchup in fantasy land.

 swish

swish wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Swish we are in agreement of the 50’s and 60’s being inferior, however the 80’s, mid 80’s could hold their own with any era....I’d still take that 86 Celtic team over any team anytime, anywhere....

oldschool

 That 85-86 Celtic team (my favorite Celtic Team) was just a super,super team - but vastly superior shooting percentages by the 2016-17 golden State team would make them my favorite to top the Celts. Too bad that we can only speculate on that matchup in fantasy land.

 swish

We would have way too much inside firepower that they could not handle both ends, our offense would move the ball, put on a clinic, and if we wanted we could shoot more 3’s, but with the passing from that team, we’d put on a open shot clinic inside, outside, wherever. Saddest thing about that team is they could have been even a level better the next year if only Len Bias doesn’t lose control one night....

cowens/oldschool wrote:

swish wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Swish we are in agreement of the 50’s and 60’s being inferior, however the 80’s, mid 80’s could hold their own with any era....I’d still take that 86 Celtic team over any team anytime, anywhere....

oldschool

 That 85-86 Celtic team (my favorite Celtic Team) was just a super,super team - but vastly superior shooting percentages by the 2016-17 golden State team would make them my favorite to top the Celts. Too bad that we can only speculate on that matchup in fantasy land.

 swish

We would have way too much inside firepower that they could not handle both ends, our offense would move the ball, put on a clinic, and if we wanted we could shoot more 3’s, but with the passing from that team, we’d put on a open shot clinic inside, outside, wherever. Saddest thing about that team is they could have been even a level better the next year if only Len Bias doesn’t lose control one night....

Sounds good oldschool - opinions are fine - but how about some numbers to back up your claim that those Celtics were superior in those categories that you mention above.

swish

My eye test

That 86 Celtics team would compete against anyone including GS (2018 championship team)

Stats	Celts	Warriors
PPG	114.1	113.5
RPG	46.4	43.5
APG	29.1	29.3
OPPG	104.7	107.5
FG%	0.508	0.503
3PFG%	0.351	0.391
FGA	89.2	85.1
FT%	0.794	81.5
FTA	27.4	20.3
EFG%	0.518	0.564
TS%	0.564	0.603
Pace	101.2	100.4
Off Rating	111.8	112.6
Def Rating	102.6	106.8

It is always difficult to compare a team (GS 2017-18) to a team that played 30 years earlier.  the game has changed both in terms of style and rules that prevent the defense from doing things like hand checking.

The 86 Celtics had the most dominant front line in NBA history.  GS would not have been able to match up with that front line.  That team was also a great defensive team.  

If both teams played and both teams put up the same stats as they did in 86 and 2017-18 the Celtics likely win the series.  They scored more PPG and gave up less PPG than GSW.  GS has the better EFG because of the 3 point shooting but Boston would more than make up for that by pounding the snot out of GS in the low post getting to the line more and putting them in foul trouble.

Watching Tatum, all I can say is Holy Shit! The young man can play!

Boy has this been a long off season!! I can't imagine myself looking forward to FIBA games as my source of entertainment in a week or so. With the Red Sox taking the pipe, watching the preseason game of the Patriots was my sports enjoyment!!!! Bring on preseason, please. I know it is starting earlier, thank God.

I find myself wondering if this set of rookies are going to be better than we have anticipated. My biggest question is Langford, and that is because we did not see him in the summer league. Williams and Edwards are already showing that they are willing to work, be involved and have mixed with the guys who have stuck around all summer.

So ......I am ready. Got my pom poms ready and have forgotten who played point guard for us last year. Moved on, as Brad says, a long time ago. Go Celtics

dboss wrote:It is always difficult to compare a team (GS 2017-18) to a team that played 30 years earlier.  the game has changed both in terms of style and rules that prevent the defense from doing things like hand checking.

The 86 Celtics had the most dominant front line in NBA history.  GS would not have been able to match up with that front line.  That team was also a great defensive team.  

If both teams played and both teams put up the same stats as they did in 86 and 2017-18 the Celtics likely win the series.  They scored more PPG and gave up less PPG than GSW.  GS has the better EFG because of the 3 point shooting but Boston would more than make up for that by pounding the snot out of GS in the low post getting to the line more and putting them in foul trouble.

 Looks good on paper dboss - but caution my friend as that all important shooting  stat ( EFG ) indicates that the 2016-17 Warriors not only dominate the Celts in EFG overall (.563 to.518) but were equally dominant from 2 point land with a shooting percentage of .557 to .517. Great shooting rules the day.


swish

I am more excited about this team than any of the past few years. Green covered glasses for sure but...........this could be really good!

Swish

Don't overlook the defensive piece.  Offensively the 86 team averaged more points per game and were a superior defensive team.

Gs is a killer perimeter team but give me some old school big men that will physically dominant the opponent.  Also keep in mind that teams play a sissified style.  You cannot look at a guy.  The 86 team was a beast.

The EFG does not give us a complete picture.

dboss wrote:Swish

Don't overlook the defensive piece.  Offensively the 86 team averaged more points per game and were a superior defensive team.

Gs is a killer perimeter team but give me some old school big men that will physically dominant the opponent.  Also keep in mind that teams play a sissified style.  You cannot look at a guy.  The 86 team was a beast.

The EFG does not give us a complete picture.

+1

How obvious is it we would beat them to a pulp, our superior inside game both ends, plus our passing easily overcomes their outside shooting from their backcourt

Dboss...i have to agree with you about that “86 team. Of all the teams I have watched over a 50 plus years of basketball, that team was the best I ever saw. Stats may show one thing with GSW, but I do not care what anyone says, they would have been killed by the Celtics.
I am not a fan of comparison of teams , years go by, the game changes, the players change, but who is to say that some of those players may not have been great with all the new, improved equipment, and coaching of today. You will never convince me that Russell would not have been dominant in this generation the way he was when he played. He just would have done it differently. Do you think Havlicek would not have been just as good now as he was then? They wouldn’t be able to keep up with him. So, throw the comparison’s out the window. 1986 was the best.


HHEY PETE....I AGREE....I CANNOT WAIT TO WATCH THESE KIDS THIS YEAR. I KNOW I SAID IT LAST YEAR, BUT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT HAS ME JUST DYING FOR THE SEASON TO START!!!
HOW ARE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY? WELL, I HOPE.

Rosalie