Discounting the need for a star at the 4 spot...

Ok, the Celts were quite blessed to have Kevin McHale and then KG play Power Forward for us, but really, that has not usually been the crucial position for us nor for other NBA franchises to win championships. All Star guards, yes. All Star small forwards, yes. Even All Star centers - Shaq, Hakeem, Russ, Wilt, Cowens - come to mind.

Think about it. Besides KG, Dirk, Bob Petit, and to some extent Tim Duncan (who often played center), which power forwards were The Key Guys who led their teams to NBA championships? The great Karl Malone never did. Neither did Sir Charles. Elvin Hayes had one. Pau Gasol had two, but he wasn't THE star. Dennis Rodman may undercut my argument - he had five, but think of whom he played with, the Pistons and Bulls in their glory years.

The point I am trying to get at is that even though we don't have a great power forward in our lineup, the Celts still have the goods in many places that really count. Don't underestimate how well we'll do this year because we are weak at the 4.

I'll take just a competent NBA starter at this point!!



I hope Stevens can find one on this roster.

I'm with you...a competent power forward would really help this team. Maybe Theis could be that guy for 20 minutes per day.

worcester wrote:Ok, the Celts were quite blessed to have Kevin McHale and then KG play Power Forward for us, but really, that has not usually been the crucial position for us nor for other NBA franchises to win championships. All Star guards, yes. All Star small forwards, yes. Even All Star centers - Shaq, Hakeem, Russ, Wilt, Cowens - come to mind.

Think about it. Besides KG, Dirk, Bob Petit, and to some extent Tim Duncan (who often played center), which power forwards were The Key Guys who led their teams to NBA championships? The great Karl Malone never did. Neither did Sir Charles. Elvin Hayes had one. Pau Gasol had two, but he wasn't THE star. Dennis Rodman may undercut my argument - he had five, but think of whom he played with, the Pistons and Bulls in their glory years.

The point I am trying to get at is that even though we don't have a great power forward in our lineup, the Celts still have the goods in many places that really count. Don't underestimate how well we'll do this year because we are weak at the 4.

A star at the 4 or 5 is not necessary to be a championship team.
They key thing is having one or more superstars on the team.
The key thing that PF’s or C’s must do is to be able to switch on defense.
If Boston is going to be an elite team, they will need Kemba to be a 25 ppg scorer and for Tatum to be an efficient 22-25 ppg scorer. Tatum getting only 13 fga’s and 3 fta’s is not going to get it done.
Brad needs to unleash Tatum by playing him 36-38 mpg and getting him at a minimum 18 fga’s per game.

tjmakz wrote:

worcester wrote:Ok, the Celts were quite blessed to have Kevin McHale and then KG play Power Forward for us, but really, that has not usually been the crucial position for us nor for other NBA franchises to win championships. All Star guards, yes. All Star small forwards, yes. Even All Star centers - Shaq, Hakeem, Russ, Wilt, Cowens - come to mind.

Think about it. Besides KG, Dirk, Bob Petit, and to some extent Tim Duncan (who often played center), which power forwards were The Key Guys who led their teams to NBA championships? The great Karl Malone never did. Neither did Sir Charles. Elvin Hayes had one. Pau Gasol had two, but he wasn't THE star. Dennis Rodman may undercut my argument - he had five, but think of whom he played with, the Pistons and Bulls in their glory years.

The point I am trying to get at is that even though we don't have a great power forward in our lineup, the Celts still have the goods in many places that really count. Don't underestimate how well we'll do this year because we are weak at the 4.

A star at the 4 or 5 is not necessary to be a championship team.
They key thing is having one or more superstars on the team.
The key thing that PF’s or C’s must do is to be able to switch on defense.
If Boston is going to be an elite team, they will need Kemba to be a 25 ppg scorer and for Tatum to be an efficient 22-25 ppg scorer. Tatum getting only 13 fga’s and 3 fta’s is not going to get it done.
Brad needs to unleash Tatum by playing him 36-38 mpg and getting him at a minimum 18 fga’s per game.

TJ,

I think that's too many minutes for Tatum but if you dial them back to 33-34mpg, and adjust the fgas accordingly, then I am in full agreement.  He needs to make up the difference between your 18fgas/game and the adjusted-for-34mpg fgas by getting to the line more.  If Kobe teaches him anything I would like it to be how to get to the frito line more.


bob


.

TJ

I do not see Tatum playing 36 +  MPG and I do not think Walker needs to be a 25 PPG player.  He is not playing for Charlotte this upcoming season.

The Celtics have 3 players on this team that need more FGA per game not including Walker who is likely to take the most shots.

The top 4 include Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Walker.  After that you have Kanter and Smart.

When you try to get too many players minutes you dilute the product because the best players are never going to get enough shots because they do not play enough minutes.  

In many respects I agree with the premise of getting a guy like Tatum more minutes and FGA.  I think the same line of reasoning can be said for Brown and Hayward (if healthy)

dboss wrote:TJ

I do not see Tatum playing 36 +  MPG and I do not think Walker needs to be a 25 PPG player.  He is not playing for Charlotte this upcoming season.

The Celtics have 3 players on this team that need more FGA per game not including Walker who is likely to take the most shots.

The top 4 include Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Walker.  After that you have Kanter and Smart.

When you try to get too many players minutes you dilute the product because the best players are never going to get enough shots because they do not play enough minutes.  

In many respects I agree with the premise of getting a guy like Tatum more minutes and FGA.  I think the same line of reasoning can be said for Brown and Hayward (if healthy)

Based on the way Hayward played last year, he does not deserve more minutes or shots.
He was dreadful for all but about a dozen games. Can he play better this year? Of course he can. Will he? We don’t know.

I agree that you don’t want to dilute the product. You should ride your horses hard, especially if they are young. This thread is about stars. Stevens needs to do a better job turning his best players into stars.
Last year there were stretches where a number of different players were the best players for Boston. Depth doesn’t win championships. Stars and superstars do.
Tatum has so much talent. If I was a Celtics fan it would drive me crazy if he plays 31, 32 mpg. That means while he’s sitting someone worse is playing. A few years ago stars and superstars were playing 38-40 mpg. Now those numbers are more like 36-38. Tatum should get 36 at a minimum in my opinion.

I’d like to see Tatum get maybe 10 minutes a game at the 4, more if it’s a good match up, we have RW to go at Anthony Davis or Giannis defensively and I would give G Will a shot too as our version of Draymond Green as well as Theis, but not necessarily against a long monster PF like those guys....which is great to have a raw freakish talented kid like RW.