Nicolas Batum on Celtics center Vincent Poirier: "It's a good pick-up for Boston for sure"

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nicolas-batum-celtics-center-vincent-124600960.html




Nicolas Batum on Celtics center Vincent Poirier: "It's a good pick-up for Boston for sure"




Michael DePrisco, NBC Sports Boston

3 hours ago




Team USA didn't finish the FIBA World Cup as expected, but there were plenty of positives to take away from the tournament if you're a Celtics fan.

Not only did Kemba Walker, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart contribute to Team USA and certainly took some lessons from playing under Gregg Popovich, but Daniel Theis (Germany) and newly signed Vincent Poirier (France) got invaluable experience they can carry into the 2019-20 NBA season.

Poirier signed with the Celtics during free agency on a two-year contract and should have plenty of opportunities to earn playing time in a Celtics' frontcourt that hopes to replace Al Horford and Aron Baynes.

Poirier's French teammate Nicolas Batum, who played with Walker in Charlotte over the last four years, dealt out some praise of the rookie center after France beat Australia for the FIBA bronze medal.

"This guy, I think, just started basketball 5 years ago, so he's had a special career," Batum told John Schumann. "His energy was great. We can't count on Rudy (Gobert) every game... He was huge. He wasn't scared by Bogut & Baynes... He was amazing tonight."

France knocked the U.S. out of the knockout round by besting them in the quarterfinals. Poirier didn't play in that game, but has played a big role for France behind All-Star big man Rudy Gobert.

"It's clear that he's a center that can block shots and control the paint," Batum said. "He's a terrific roller, can really catch a lob, and obviously has a lot of energy. It's a good pick-up for Boston, for sure."

The Celtics responded to Horford's departure and trading Baynes to Phoneix by signing Poirier and Enes Kanter to join Theis and Robert Williams at the center spot. Boston will probably have to solve their hole at that position by committee, but if Poirier can play consistent defense, rebound and protect the paint as Batum describes, he could earn himself backup minutes behind Kanter.

Either way, it should be an interesting training camp to say the least for this new-look Celtics team.



bob
MY NOTE:  Of our 4 bigs (Kanter, Poirier, Williams, Theis) only 3 are NBA centers, in my opinion.  Theis, whom I like a lot, is really an NBA 4, not a 5.  Of our 3 centers, only Williams is defensive-oriented.  Kanter is not a good defensive player and Poirier, while he is active on defense and might develop into a good NBA defensive player, is an unknown at best and a mediocre defender at this time at worst.  While we have two bullyboys on offense we are very thin on defense at the baseline defensive position.  We need Poirier to really step up, defensively, or we might have some long nights ahead of us down low but, even if he does, this is a HUGE opportunity for Williams because you know it's only a matter of time before Brad is tired of our centers giving up points in the paint and puts in a defensive stopper there and Williams is the only one we have. It is The Time Lord's time to show us what he can do.


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In big lineups you could pair RW at PF with either Kanter or Poirier.

dboss wrote:In big lineups you could pair RW at PF with either Kanter or Poirier.

That’s what I’ve been saying, Bobby H disagrees....

cowens/oldschool wrote:

dboss wrote:In big lineups you could pair RW at PF with either Kanter or Poirier.

That’s what I’ve been saying, Bobby H disagrees....

I don't think RW has enough range on his shot to play 4.  With a paint eater like Kanter you need to pair him with a frontcourt mate who will spread the floor, because he can't.  Defensively, sure, I could see Kanter or Poirier with RW when we're playing Philly.


bob


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Alright so you sacrifice some offense for defense and rebounding. Dennis Rodman helped every team he was on, Bogut couldn’t score and helped GS. Ben Simmons made the all star team, even though I didn’t think he deserved it. Very few teams and players are perfect and no team has light out shooters or all stars at every position.

The key is gonna be Brad, how he puts everything and all the roles and minutes together....hes gonna have to really get everyone on the same page, a lean mean well oiled fighting machine....

Rodman was a fine scorer before he connected with MJ and Scottie. He deferred to their O and concentrated on getting 16 RB per game. He was an enormous contributor to the Bulls and Pistons.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Alright so you sacrifice some offense for defense and rebounding. Dennis Rodman helped every team he was on, Bogut couldn’t score and helped GS. Ben Simmons made the all star team, even though I didn’t think he deserved it. Very few teams and players are perfect and no team has light out shooters or all stars at every position.

Cow,

Dennis Rodman played with Zeke (HOFer and perhaps the best PG of his era), Laimbeer (floor spreader), Adrian Dantley (HOFer), Vinnie Johnson, James Edwards (low post scorer), Joe Dumars (6X All-Star), Mark Aguirre (3X All-Star) in Detroit.

In Chicago he played with MJ, Pippen, Kukoc, Steve Kerr (highest career 3pt fg% in NBA history, 45.4%).

In other words, Rodman played with a lot of very good offensive players and, if you notice, most of the highest scorers on his team were back court players, not bigs. You can pair a non-offensive player like Rodman with scorers. Putting him on the floor with other non-scorers is dangerous unless you have some offensive machines like Zeke and MJ and Pippen etal on the floor with him.

You have to play both sides of the ball, of the court and I have yet to see where RW can create his own shot or even make a shot that is frito line far. That means Kemba, Gordon, Tatum etal have got to be in full-blown Downtown Freddie Brown mode to open the floor up for two frontcourt paint eaters like Robert Williams III and fill_in_the_blank.

Williams and Theis? Yeah, I could see that. Theis can shoot from range. They'd get bullied down low by beasts like Drummond and Embiid but against less physical centers they could make it work.

We will see. Very soon, we will see.


bob



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Please. No one should compare Rodman to RW. Rodman was a decent offensive player, but he sacrificed that part of his game willingly (according to teammate Rick Mahorn) to get rebounds and play superb defense. RW is no threat at spreading the floor on offense, and while he shows potential as a rebounder and defender, potential energy is not yet kinetic energy. Bob is right, RW needs to be paired with an offensive minded 4. He can't be a 4 himself on our team. Yet.

To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, "I knew Al Horford, and RW is no Al Horford."

Brad should put more weight behind the defense.  You can put RW on the floor with Kanter or Poirier.

Add 3 shooters with them and you can roll with that for at least a 5 minute stretch.  

Poirier can make elbow shots and I bet we are going to see some of that from RW.  Those two are solid screen guys and they will demand attention. In the post.  

RW is the only player on this team that has the length and quickness to give us some minutes defending the 4.  

The value of this team increases when guys can play more than one position.  RW has the profile of a guy who can play 2 positions, at least on defense.

Poirier was the top rebounder across the pond.  That is not a fluke.  He can board.  

If Brad cannot figure out how to use the tools he has then he is not a great coach.  Brad needs to alter his offense to implement more inside offensive sets.

There will still be more than enough 3 point shot opportunities.  The very notion that a team needs every player to be able to shoot from distance is whack.

dboss wrote:Brad should put more weight behind the defense.  You can put RW on the floor with Kanter or Poirier.

Add 3 shooters with them and you can roll with that for at least a 5 minute stretch.  

Poirier can make elbow shots and I bet we are going to see some of that from RW.  Those two are solid screen guys and they will demand attention. In the post.  

RW is the only player on this team that has the length and quickness to give us some minutes defending the 4.  

The value of this team increases when guys can play more than one position.  RW has the profile of a guy who can play 2 positions, at least on defense.

Poirier was the top rebounder across the pond.  That is not a fluke.  He can board.  

If Brad cannot figure out how to use the tools he has then he is not a great coach.  Brad needs to alter his offense to implement more inside offensive sets.

There will still be more than enough 3 point shot opportunities.  The very notion that a team needs every player to be able to shoot from distance is whack.

+1

I know we will see some of GH and Tatum at the 4 in certain matchups, I also know that lineup will not work/be effective 100% of the time, so I’m expecting to see G Will, Theis and RW being given a shot to see how impactful their strengths and overall game can also contribute at the 4....

If I had more confidence RW could play 4 I would feel more confident with offering Tacko the 15th spot. Since I don't I see us, with Tacko, as ridiculously overbalanced with paint-eating 5s.


bob



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I have confidence that RW can defend the 4.  His is quick laterally and can defend out to the perimeter and he obviously has elite level shot blocking skills.  Offense is important no doubt but you just do not have to have 5 scorers on the floor together.  RW is going to score some points regardless of his offensive limitations and he will score at a very high rate.  In limited opportunities he shot something like 70% from the field.  

At this point I think we have to rethink things a bit.  Is Houston concerned that Clint Capela shoots 0/0 from deep?  Hell no, because they have enough guys on their team to fill that need.

Brad needs to rework his offense and get away from simply moving the ball to find an open 3 point shot.   The Celtics have not been able to win with that philosophy for 6 years now.  Time for a more balanced offensive attack.

dboss wrote:I have confidence that RW can defend the 4.  His is quick laterally and can defend out to the perimeter and he obviously has elite level shot blocking skills.  Offense is important no doubt but you just do not have to have 5 scorers on the floor together.  RW is going to score some points regardless of his offensive limitations and he will score at a very high rate.  In limited opportunities he shot something like 70% from the field.  

At this point I think we have to rethink things a bit.  Is Houston concerned that Clint Capela shoots 0/0 from deep?  Hell no, because they have enough guys on their team to fill that need.

Brad needs to rework his offense and get away from simply moving the ball to find an open 3 point shot.   The Celtics have not been able to win with that philosophy for 6 years now.  Time for a more balanced offensive attack.

Exactly since when did the Celtics championship teams have 5 shooters/scorers on the floor at ALL times?

dboss wrote:I have confidence that RW can defend the 4.  His is quick laterally and can defend out to the perimeter and he obviously has elite level shot blocking skills.  Offense is important no doubt but you just do not have to have 5 scorers on the floor together.  RW is going to score some points regardless of his offensive limitations and he will score at a very high rate.  In limited opportunities he shot something like 70% from the field.  

At this point I think we have to rethink things a bit.  Is Houston concerned that Clint Capela shoots 0/0 from deep?  Hell no, because they have enough guys on their team to fill that need.

Brad needs to rework his offense and get away from simply moving the ball to find an open 3 point shot.   The Celtics have not been able to win with that philosophy for 6 years now.  Time for a more balanced offensive attack.

dboss,

I agree with much of what you wrote.  Houston does not worry, nor care, about non-shooter Capela's lack of outside offense because they have that in spades.  Do we have a James Harden, or a GSW back court?  No, nobody else does either.  Do we have an Eric Gordon?  Maybe now, with Edwards, but not before.  

I must admit I am a bit perplexed by a point you made above, to wit, Houston doesn't care about Capela's shooting because they have that covered but Brad should move away from outside shooting in the context of having a non-shooter like RW on the floor.  If you need outside shooting to shrug off having a non-shooting big on the floor then why/how can Brad move away from moving the ball to find an open 3 point shot if non-shooting big RW is on the floor?  It seems to me RW's time on the floor, unless he has developed even a mid-range shot, would make outside shooting a necessity. And isn't that even more true if, with the exception of Theis, no other big that would be on the floor with him can shoot from outside neither?  What am I misunderstanding?


bob



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cowens/oldschool wrote:

dboss wrote:I have confidence that RW can defend the 4.  His is quick laterally and can defend out to the perimeter and he obviously has elite level shot blocking skills.  Offense is important no doubt but you just do not have to have 5 scorers on the floor together.  RW is going to score some points regardless of his offensive limitations and he will score at a very high rate.  In limited opportunities he shot something like 70% from the field.  

At this point I think we have to rethink things a bit.  Is Houston concerned that Clint Capela shoots 0/0 from deep?  Hell no, because they have enough guys on their team to fill that need.

Brad needs to rework his offense and get away from simply moving the ball to find an open 3 point shot.   The Celtics have not been able to win with that philosophy for 6 years now.  Time for a more balanced offensive attack.

Exactly since when did the Celtics championship teams have 5 shooters/scorers on the floor at ALL times?

Cow,

1985-1986.

Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ and Ainge. Every one of them had, at a minimum, a mid-range game.


bob


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Dboss, Your points make some sense, but this is incorrect: "The Celtics have not been able to win with that philosophy for 6 years now. Time for a more balanced offensive attack."

We have won much more than we've lost and came REALLY close two years ago. But, yes, we do need more bigs on offense and defense.

bobheckler wrote:

dboss wrote:I have confidence that RW can defend the 4.  His is quick laterally and can defend out to the perimeter and he obviously has elite level shot blocking skills.  Offense is important no doubt but you just do not have to have 5 scorers on the floor together.  RW is going to score some points regardless of his offensive limitations and he will score at a very high rate.  In limited opportunities he shot something like 70% from the field.  

At this point I think we have to rethink things a bit.  Is Houston concerned that Clint Capela shoots 0/0 from deep?  Hell no, because they have enough guys on their team to fill that need.

Brad needs to rework his offense and get away from simply moving the ball to find an open 3 point shot.   The Celtics have not been able to win with that philosophy for 6 years now.  Time for a more balanced offensive attack.

dboss,

I agree with much of what you wrote.  Houston does not worry, nor care, about non-shooter Capela's lack of outside offense because they have that in spades.  Do we have a James Harden, or a GSW back court?  No, nobody else does either.  Do we have an Eric Gordon?  Maybe now, with Edwards, but not before.  

I must admit I am a bit perplexed by a point you made above, to wit, Houston doesn't care about Capela's shooting because they have that covered but Brad should move away from outside shooting in the context of having a non-shooter like RW on the floor.  If you need outside shooting to shrug off having a non-shooting big on the floor then why/how can Brad move away from moving the ball to find an open 3 point shot if non-shooting big RW is on the floor?  It seems to me RW's time on the floor, unless he has developed even a mid-range shot, would make outside shooting a necessity.  And isn't that even more true if, with the exception of Theis, no other big that would be on the floor with him can shoot from outside neither?  What am I misunderstanding?


bob



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Bob

Outside shooting is a necessity.  Ball movement to search out the best shot is a necessity.  You will still get plenty of outside shots with RW or Poirier or Kanter in the lineup.  

The point I am making is that Boston needs to be able to diversify their offense by playing to the strengths of different lineups.  The Celtics have enough outside shooters to surround a guy that is not an outside shooter.  

Is it just me but did anyone else get sick of watching the predictable offense last year?  This team struggled to win unless they shot the 3 ball well.  

Kanter has a nice touch from the outside and you can bet your bottom dollar that he will add distance this year.  If Brad can turn Aron Baynes into a serviceable outside shooter I am confident that he can do the same with Kanter.

There are two ways to stretch the floor.  With AH the Celtics used him as a stretch 5 but you can also stretch the floor if you have a beast in the post that demands help.  That also opens things up for your shooters.  AH is no longer on the team and if Brad tries to play the same style then it will not work.

I truly believe that the Celtics can become a more efficient offensive team by utilizing a post scoring option.  I think thy can be a better team by using our bigs to better facilitate the offense.  

We have to start looking at having a PF or a center in the lineup that is not an outside shooter and focus more on what he can do to help the team score and what he can do to defend and rebound and get us more PITP and more trips to the line and more fast break opportunities by controlling the glass.  We have 18 fouls between our centers and they should be used to pound the crap out of teams.

I think Boston can be a more dangerous team on offense.

I have not mentioned Theis in all of this.  We already know he can step away from the basket and shoot jumpers.  Maybe it is time to pair him with one of our big centers and let him be the stretch 5 on offense and play at the 4 on defense.  Creativity!  We need creativity.    

Can Brad rethink his strategies?

worcester wrote:Please. No one should compare Rodman to RW. Rodman was a decent offensive player, but he sacrificed that part of his game willingly (according to teammate Rick Mahorn) to get rebounds and play superb defense. RW is no threat at spreading the floor on offense, and while he shows potential as a rebounder and defender, potential energy is not yet kinetic energy. Bob is right, RW needs to be paired with an offensive minded 4. He can't be a 4 himself on our team. Yet.

To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, "I knew Al Horford, and RW is no Al Horford."

Why not? I don’t think Rodman was decent, too generous, limited at best, no midrange or outside game at all or sembence of a post up game, was a fierce defender and relentless rebounder....traits that I hope RW can further develop. RW has length, seems quite mobile and jumps quicker and higher than anyone his size 6’10”-6’11” right now in the league, with a massive reach. Rodman also came into the league at 24, started college late, I’d love to see RW with Rodman’s effect/impact.

I’d love to see RW with Rodman’s effect/impact. wrote:

I think most of us would be just fine with that!!

cowens/oldschool wrote:

worcester wrote:Please. No one should compare Rodman to RW. Rodman was a decent offensive player, but he sacrificed that part of his game willingly (according to teammate Rick Mahorn) to get rebounds and play superb defense. RW is no threat at spreading the floor on offense, and while he shows potential as a rebounder and defender, potential energy is not yet kinetic energy. Bob is right, RW needs to be paired with an offensive minded 4. He can't be a 4 himself on our team. Yet.

To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, "I knew Al Horford, and RW is no Al Horford."

Why not? I don’t think Rodman was decent, too generous, limited at best, no midrange or outside game at all or sembence of a post up game, was a fierce defender and relentless rebounder....traits that I hope RW can further develop. RW has length, seems quite mobile and jumps quicker and higher than anyone his size 6’10”-6’11” right now in the league, with a massive reach. Rodman also came into the league at 24, started college late, I’d love to see RW with Rodman’s effect/impact.

Cow,

Rodman actually had a decent mid-range shot.  In his "I gotta be me" Dennis Rodman way he just refused to take them more often than once a blue moon.

The Worm might be one of the best defenders in the history of the NBA.  He was, pound-for-pound and inch-for-inch, one of the greatest rebounder in the history of the NBA (Bill Russell, just an inch or two taller, could be #1.  The one argument that Rodman could make is that he outrebounded players MUCH bigger and taller than him while Russ was one of the biggest men of his day as well as being an elite athlete).

I agree that Williams has the potential to be a great rebounder.  If he used this summer to put on muscle and weight it could happen sooner than later, but Rodman-esque?  I don't want to put words into Worcester's mouth, but what I think he's trying to say is that saying this about Williams so early and unproven in his career was like people saying Danny Ainge could be the next Jerry West when he came into the league.  Give the kids a chance before making historic comparisons.

Last year Williams showed tremendous potential in limited minutes.  Hampered by his knee injury over the summer and missing summer league and camp hurts a rookie's development.  This year, though, I'm expecting big things from him.  More rebounding and, much more importantly, fewer blown defensive rotations.  The blocked shots get into the highlight films and bring fans out of their seats but he had A LOT of weak rotations.  With a year under his belt I expect this to improve greatly.  But, once again, Rodman-esque?  One of Rodman's great strengths was the quickness of his feet.  He took A LOT of charges because he moved his feet (Smart does the same).  Will/can Robert Williams move his feet quickly enough to take a charge from a SF?  To be honest, I see the Rodman comparison inre defense applying to Marcus Smart more than Robert Williams.

Given our thinness at PF, his talents and a year of experience under his belt this could be an eye-opening, if not breakout, year for Williams. I'm practically drooling in anticipation. 13 days until camp.


bob



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worcester wrote:Dboss, Your points make some sense, but this is incorrect: "The Celtics have not been able to win with that philosophy for 6 years now.  Time for a more balanced offensive attack."

We have won much more than we've lost and came REALLY close two years ago. But, yes, we do need more bigs on offense and defense.

Yes Worcester we came razor close to making it to the big dance.  

Who can forget the Cleveland series.  We go into game 6 up 3-2 in the series and Rozier and JB go off for 28 and 27 points respectively but we only get 6 points for AH and none from Baynes. We lose by 10 points

In the decisive game 7 AH comes back with 17 points but only grabs 4 rebounds and TR melts down going 0-10 from deep but he just keeps on shooting them.  Boston shoots 7-39 or 17.9% from deep and lose.

The take from this series is that you have to be able to shoot the deep ball consistently but you also have to have a viable post offense.  Together they are both needed to win.

Winning more games than you lose is great but that is not going to satisfy Celtics fans.  

Going into the upcoming season expectations have been tempered and fans just want to see the team play competitive basketball and maybe make some noise during the playoffs.  Structurally, this team will look very different and the only way to maximize what they should be able to do well is for coach Stevens to implement a post offense as something other than an afterthought.