Tatum an All Star

They just announced it on NBC/Sports

Wow great news. Only his 3rd year and already an all-star

Poor Jaylen......sorry he was having an awesome season, I think those missed games hurt him. But even Tommy said, three on one team, is a hard sell. Two would have to be voted in, then maybe one could make it as a reserve

Butler was another reserve. I guess they had to have two Heat since there were two Celtics.

Poor Jaylen. He deserved it more than Butler.


bob


.

Sabonis also made it, he’s having a good year, but ask all the coaches who’d they rather have Jaylen or Sabonis, the overwhelming majority I gotta think would be Jaylen....

I love all our guys, but I think Brown has been more efficient than Tatum. Jayson is growing up ina hurry though.His defense is waaay better than last year. Pop might deserve some credit for that

jrleftfoot wrote:I love all our guys, but I think Brown has been more efficient than Tatum. Jayson is growing up ina hurry though.His defense is waaay better than last year. Pop might deserve some credit for that

That Brown is more efficient seems to be the perception. However their PER's are nearly identical. Tatum's is actually slightly higher. PER is not perfect, but the fact that their numbers are so similar probably does reflect similar efficiencies. Tatum's shooting percentages have been steadily climbing since the beginning of the season, and getting back to his career averages, which are generally pretty efficient. I think people remember that poor-shooting start and give it more weight than it deserves. Also, JT seems to run hot and cold, often within the same game, missing 8 straight and then hitting 7 straight. The misses are what people notice more. Finally, there is a myth that JT is not a good defender. As you point out, that is BS. Advanced stats definitely support your assertion and suggest JT has been excellent defensively this year. Jackie Mac just wrote an article about this - I'll post it later if no one else does.

Tatum has really worked on getting stronger and it shows both ends, he’s now finishing better and better, he’s competing as a 4 very well defensively and in our defensive scheme the way we switch he wreaks havoc all over the floor. Having acknowledged that, Jaylen still gets the toughest match ups right from the get go on the opponents best scorer and a shame Jaylen didn’t get an all star berth as he deserved it IMHO. I get the politics that other teams with near identical records as our team need to get more than one, so how could we get 3? Well we have time....it will happen for Jaylen.

I'ts great motivation for both of them. JT gets the recognition now. Brown couldn't be happier for him but it's going to eat at him that he didn't get in this year. They voters, media and coaches will not make the same mistake next year. There will be three Celtics on the All-Star Team in 2021. Bet the farm, wife and kids. You heard it here first!

db

dbrown4 wrote:I'ts great motivation for both of them.  JT gets the recognition now.  Brown couldn't be happier for him but it's going to eat at him that he didn't get in this year.  They voters, media and coaches will not make the same mistake next year.  There will be three Celtics on the All-Star Team in 2021.  Bet the farm, wife and kids.  You heard it here first!  

db

He’s got more talent than 3/4’s of that all star team and the coaches know it. His game of running the floor for high wire acts is made to order for an all star game. Well the good news is we’ve got him and JT and love Kemba’s quote that these 2 kids/guys are the franchise....so glad we got them and not the Lakers, thanks Magic.

dbrown4 wrote:I'ts great motivation for both of them.  JT gets the recognition now.  Brown couldn't be happier for him but it's going to eat at him that he didn't get in this year.  They voters, media and coaches will not make the same mistake next year.  There will be three Celtics on the All-Star Team in 2021.  Bet the farm, wife and kids.  You heard it here first!  

db

If Kyrie and Durant are healthy next season, it will be very hard to have 3 Celtics on next years all-star team.

It is rare to have 3 guys from the same team make the all-star roster however with Boston being the only team in the NBA with 3 20+ scorers a case can be made that all 3 should have been selected.

I do not think both Bam and Sabonis should have been selected.  I think Sabonis was a worthy selection.

With respect to the Celtics, Gordon Hayward is our best overall offensive player and he is a former all-star who is more then capable of putting up 20+ PPG every night.

Jayson Tatum deserved to make the team although he has been less efficient on offense compared to both Brown and Hayward.  Gordon is the most unselfish player on this team.  He only gets 13.1 FGA per game while Tatum gets 5 more at 18.1.    It's kinda funny GH shoots 51.7% from the field and JT shoots only 43.6%.  The reason is clear JT has not been a great shooter all year because he takes more bad shoots.  He does look pretty when he takes them though.

GH does not take hero shoots.  

I should also mentioned the obvious snub of Bradley Beal, a 28+ PPG scorer, 6.4 assists and 4.5 rebounds (51% shooting efficiency)

Where do you draw the line as it relates to scoring and shooting efficiency?

Gordon's PER is 18.7. Jayson's is 18.6. Jaylen's is 17.7. The many flaws of PER (player efficiency rating) have been discussed many times here and elsewhere, but it is still less flawed than citing one or two single stats/shooting percentages as representative of overall efficiency. Tales of JT's inefficiency are overblown.

Zach LaVine also had a strong case for making the all-star team.
Over 25ppg, 38% from 3.
Devin Booker at Karl-Anthony Towns are big time snubs in the west.

I don't view 20 ppg scorers as any threshold for being an all-star.
The Clippers have 4 guys averaging at least 19 ppg.
Only one made the all-star team.

Shamrock1000 wrote:Gordon's PER is 18.7. Jayson's is 18.6. Jaylen's is 17.7. The many flaws of PER (player efficiency rating) have been discussed many times here and elsewhere, but it is still less flawed than citing one or two single stats/shooting percentages as representative of overall efficiency. Tales of JT's inefficiency are overblown.

Rock

Obviously more weight is placed on offensive production in the all-star evaluation process.  The per's for our wings are are very comparable.  And since the per does not capture an individuals contribution in total I never use it.  It may be less flawed than other measurements but it is flawed.  

There is no tale as it relates to shooting efficiency.  I am not taking about overall efficiency when it come to our wings.  I am only pointing out that Hayward and Jaylen have a better shooting efficiency than JT and they also have a better scoring efficiency than JT.   There is a reason why one guy shoots better than another guy and why one guy scores more points per shot.  From what I have seen it is all about shot selection.  All 3 of our wings can score at all 3 levels.

Style points only count towards perception.   Splendid looking moves and shots that do not go in are simply missed shots.

From what I have seen so far this year,  GH is the best overall offensive player on this team.  If he can stay healthy he is more than capable of carrying this team on offense by scoring and by distributing the basketball to his teammates.

I want to add one more thing and then I'm off my soapbox

TS (True Shooting percentage) is a reliable measurement because it combines a player's FG% along with their 3PT FG% and their FT %.

Hayward  60.8%
Brown      60.0%
Walker     58.6%
Tatum      54.2

The Celtics would be well served if they Get GH a few more looks.

Agreed, plus Hayward is the team's best zone buster.Kemba is in my opinion, the current team's MVP, because he can pick the team up and carry it, but it would be closer if not for Hayward's injuries. Some of the trade proposals suggested regarding Gordon are downright comical . His rebounding is a big plus from the guard position too. The Js are the future, but Kemba and Gordon are key to winning this year.

dboss wrote:I want to add one more thing and then I'm off my soapbox

TS (True Shooting percentage) is a reliable measurement because it combines a player's FG% along with their 3PT FG% and their FT %.

Hayward  60.8%
Brown      60.0%
Walker     58.6%
Tatum      54.2

The Celtics would be well served if they Get GH a few more looks.

I get you Dboss - I know your comments are always really well thought out. Didn't mean to argue your main point that JT is shooting less efficiently than Brown or Hayward, just pointing out that "efficiency" is complicated, quantifying it is not easy, and JT is not necessarily inefficient. JT actually holds up pretty well by most advanced statistics, which, while undoubtedly still flawed, try to present an accurate overall picture of a player. Note that a TS% of 55 is considered pretty darn good, and 60 is elite (or is for an old school big who never shoots beyond 3 ft out and can hit his FTs). Another factor may be coaching - perhaps Brad JT has a green light to bail the team out when plays break down, and thus he sometimes takes more difficult shots. For Sure Gordon and Jaylen score more in the flow of the game, but that could be partially by design. Totally agree that JT certainly looks good taking shots, but that is not what matters. Nobody's game is more aesthetically pleasing than Kyrie's, yet it doesn't seem to translate into winning...

jrleftfoot wrote:Agreed, plus Hayward is the team's best zone buster.Kemba is in my opinion, the current team's MVP, because he can pick the team up and carry it, but it would be closer if not for Hayward's injuries. Some of the trade proposals suggested regarding Gordon are downright comical . His rebounding is a big plus from the guard position too. The Js are the future, but Kemba and Gordon are key to winning this year.

The only way trading GH makes any sense is if 1) Danny knows he is going to opt out at the end of the year; and 2) Danny also knows the Celtics can't sign him to the money he deserves. Even then, if management thinks we are legit contenders, GH should be off the table in any talks.

I think one thing going into negotiations with Tatum and Hayward that we have going for us is our Bird Rights on both of them.  That means Danny can go over the salary cap to sign them.  That becomes a timing thing (you don't want to sign them first and go over the cap because you can't then sign a free agent.  You want to sign the free agent, and then resign them because you can) but if Wyc and Pags are willing to pay the luxury tax we could, potentially, retain both.

Maybe GYSO could elucidate further.


bob


.

Cap holds on our own free agents will keep us from signing a major free agent from another team by using the old "timing thing". That loophole is closed.

The best free agents that we will be able to sign are . . . Jayson Tatum and Gordon Hayward.

If we show good in the post season and play it forward, we can pick up a good player or two that will take less to fit into our MLE, BAE and/or vet min exception.

There are too many moving parts to make any predictions, but I imagine we will be very limited going into this summer.

Well deserved honor for Tatum. Clearly the Celtics' most important player at this time.

Great having two All-Stars with Walker already in the starting lineup. Lots of positives for this young and developing team.

Shamrock1000 wrote:Gordon's PER is 18.7. Jayson's is 18.6. Jaylen's is 17.7. The many flaws of PER (player efficiency rating) have been discussed many times here and elsewhere, but it is still less flawed than citing one or two single stats/shooting percentages as representative of overall efficiency. Tales of JT's inefficiency are overblown.

Bingo!! More to basketball than the word efficiency. Who makes it easier for other players, block shots, steals. If a stat has Lebron, the Freak, Leonard, and Harden, as the top four guys you can bet there is some legitimacy to it. Well Mr. Tatum is number 5 on that list. Real Plus Minus. You take out all the 15-20 minute guys and the guys left on that list are household names.