Celtics reportedly hope to keep Hayward whether he opts out or not

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/13/nba-boston-celtics-retain-gordon-hayward-opt-out-or-not/



Celtics reportedly hope to keep Hayward whether he opts out or not






Justin Quinn
February 13, 2020 11:31 am



In case it isn’t obvious, the Boston Celtics like having Gordon Hayward around.


The team could have dealt away the veteran forward at the trade deadline if they thought they didn’t have an excellent chance of retaining the Butler product at the price point they’re willing to pay, but instead chose to stand pat and roll the dice this summer.

With the Indiana native able to opt out of the final season of his current contract this summer, the possibility of a large offer sheet looms at a time when the Celtics will be jacking their payroll sky-high.

Fourth-year shooting guard Jaylen Brown will see his extension kick in, and presumably the season after that, third-year swingman Jayson Tatum will follow with one of his own.

Brian Robb of Boston Sports Journal reports, “the Celtics remain very interested in bringing back Hayward over the long-term whether or not he elects to pick up that option this summer.”




StatMuse

@statmuse
Gordon Hayward looking like his old self again in the last 10 games.

20 PPG
7.6 RPG
4.2 APG
50.3 FG%
46.3 3P%
+89 +/- (2nd best on team)

7:10 PM - Feb 5, 2020



This doesn’t necessarily mean Boston is unconcerned with their cap situation going forward — in fact quite the opposite, according to Robb.

“Price point is always going to be an area of concern for the [Celtics] with future deals though as seen last summer when the team declined to match the hefty four-year $109 million offer from the Sixers on Al Horford (and also give up the assets necessary to make a sign-and-trade to keep Horford and bring on Kemba Walker).”

This of course opens the door to a similar scenario to play out with Hayward, but it seems Boston believes it has an excellent shot at avoiding losing the Butler product for nothing.

For now, the focus is on winning in the present — there’s few things like a deep postseason run to cement ties to a franchise on the upswing, but after leaving roughly $40 million on the table just to come the Celtics in 2017, it’s anyone’s guess what Hayward will do once summer arrives.


bob
MY NOTE:  One difference between Horford and Hayward is that Hayward will be 30 in March and Horford just turned 33 years old when his contract was up.


.

He'll likely have to take less than max money, with Tatum definitely getting a max deal soon.

but it all depends on how much tax money the owners are willing to pay.

I think he’s very comfortable here and would sign for less than max, he knows the franchise and Danny and BS have been very loyal to him and done everything possible to help him after that terrible injury. He’s made his money, he knows Tatum has to get his and then later down the road which ever other young player emerges will also need to get paid. How many teams will pay him a max after his injury history and he will be 30-31....??? GM’s know GH is great in an ensemble and cannot carry a team by himself.

Hayward will most likely try to get as much money on his next contract as he can.  It may be his last chance to cash in.  We may be deluding ourselves if we think otherwise.  Our recent history with Al Horford should serve as an example.

IMO, we should consider Horford's new contract as a basepoint when considering Hayward's future contract.  Some team will overpay and ignore Hayward's age at the end of the new contract, his fit with current players, his injury history, etc. just like Philly did.  Much to Philly's regret, I suppose.  

We will not be players on the free agent market, so Danny has to weigh the pros and cons and make his decision.  Can he facilitate a sign-and-trade with Gordon to at least bring some talent back to the Celtics?  Are sign-and-trades even a viable option anymore with the cap rules taking away most of the advantages?

Gordon Heyward left money on the table to sign here, so my current opinion is to pay the man.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

gyso

gyso wrote:Hayward will most likely try to get as much money on his next contract as he can.  It may be his last chance to cash in.  We may be deluding ourselves if we think otherwise.  Our recent history with Al Horford should serve as an example.

IMO, we should consider Horford's new contract as a basepoint when considering Hayward's future contract.  Some team will overpay and ignore Hayward's age at the end of the new contract, his fit with current players, his injury history, etc. just like Philly did.  Much to Philly's regret, I suppose.  

We will not be players on the free agent market, so Danny has to weigh the pros and cons and make his decision.  Can he facilitate a sign-and-trade with Gordon to at least bring some talent back to the Celtics?  Are sign-and-trades even a viable option anymore with the cap rules taking away most of the advantages?

Gordon Heyward left money on the table to sign here, so my current opinion is to pay the man.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

gyso

I agree in a perfect world we should pay the man, but is he worth another max contract, he’s not worth more than Jaylen or Smart on the floor IMHO....and how do you pay the man with Tatum due a max or close to max contract in the near future, you can’t max to both...???

Cowens,

Hayward's next contract (and the ability for the Celtics to pay whatever) has nothing to do with the contracts for Jaylen or Smart or Jayson or Kemba or anybody else.  The Celtics have Hayward's Bird rights and can pay him what they want.  The same goes for Jaylen's next contract.  

On any given team, there always will be players who are overpaid and players who are underpaid, according to their skill level and contribution to the team's success.  Fans seem to care about this fact more than team management.  Some players may care, but that may be mostly ego driven.

If we get healthy and show the league what we can do this spring, I do not think that a trip to the Finals is out of the question.  Every prior indication suggests that the owner group will go into the luxury tax for a winner.  Signing Hayward for max or near max will then seem to them to be a no-brainer.

It all hinges on whether we can get to the promised land this season with this team.  If we do, team management will want to roll this thing forward, to heck with the cost.

gyso

We still have 28 games remaining plus hopefully an extended payoff run with a real opportunity to show up at the big dance.

None of us know what will be best for the Celtics come July 1st.

I hope they will retain his services.  He could opt in at $34 million and choose to become a free agent the following year or he could agree to a new contract for less money.

There is so much we do not know.  Will he have an going issue with his foot?  Nerve damage that needs to be managed?  Does it makes sense to pay a player who is 4th in scoring on the team a max deal?  What level of max are we talking about?  

Cow I have to disagree with you about his impact on the floor.  GH  is our best overall offensive player.  Smart is our best defensive player.  Both of them make their teammates better.

GH's value should be measured by the completeness of his game.  He is still the most complete player on this team.

gyso wrote:Cowens,

Hayward's next contract (and the ability for the Celtics to pay whatever) has nothing to do with the contracts for Jaylen or Smart or Jayson or Kemba or anybody else.  The Celtics have Hayward's Bird rights and can pay him what they want.  The same goes for Jaylen's next contract.  

On any given team, there always will be players who are overpaid and players who are underpaid, according to their skill level and contribution to the team's success.  Fans seem to care about this fact more than team management.  Some players may care, but that may be mostly ego driven.

If we get healthy and show the league what we can do this spring, I do not think that a trip to the Finals is out of the question.  Every prior indication suggests that the owner group will go into the luxury tax for a winner.  Signing Hayward for max or near max will then seem to them to be a no-brainer.

It all hinges on whether we can get to the promised land this season with this team.  If we do, team management will want to roll this thing forward, to heck with the cost.

gyso

Great you know more about the salary cap and Bird rights than me, being we drafted Jaylen and Jayson I’m assuming we would have their Bird rights too, does that mean their salaries get a break in counting towards the cap...???? Never understood all this cap stuff?

dboss wrote:We still have 28 games remaining plus hopefully an extended payoff run with a real opportunity to show up at the big dance.

None of us know what will be best for the Celtics come July 1st.

I hope they will retain his services.  He could opt in at $34 million and choose to become a free agent the following year or he could agree to a new contract for less money.

There is so much we do not know.  Will he have an going issue with his foot?  Nerve damage that needs to be managed?  Does it makes sense to pay a player who is 4th in scoring on the team a max deal?  What level of max are we talking about?  

Cow I have to disagree with you about his impact on the floor.  GH  is our best overall offensive player.  Smart is our best defensive player.  Both of them make their teammates better.

GH's value should be measured by the completeness of his game.  He is still the most complete player on this team.

I love what GH has brought to the team this year, obviously a big upgrade over last year, like night and day. I am not ready to call him the most complete player on this team, that’s tough because this team has a lot of great talent, he can do a lot of really good things. I don’t think he can get his shot off and beat the defense in as many ways as Tatum can right now, he’s not quite as athletic as Jaylen, but that’s not meant to be a knock on him, as very few are, he’s a better passer than both and love his pull up jumper and want to see him use it even more....nobody was more happy for him than me when he came thru at the end of last game.

sure, any team can as many max players under contract as the bird rights they have. But that isn't practical in the real world, where being over the tax line year over year costs real money at some point.

so, I agree that we can pay Hayward a max deal and then Tatum a max deal the year after. Sure we can (as long as I'm not paying the salary or the tax).

reality is teams have 2-3 max players on a roster at the same time now. we already have Hayward and Kemba now. next year Browns new deal starts at around $22M and is NOT a max deal even.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2020/

next year if Hayward and Kanter both opt in, we are at $142M in salarys which is over the tax line already, thats with 14 players under contracts and cap holds on Wanamaker, Tacko and Waters. and with NO rookies counted.

on 2021 we have 7 players under contract counting $89M, if we add both Hayward and Tatum at eve near max deals, we would have 9 players at something like $160M. That would be likely already over the tax line by $10-20M and we need to fill out the roster,

kdp59 wrote:sure, any team can as many max players under contract as the bird rights they have. But that isn't practical in the real world, where being over the tax line year over year costs real money at some point.

so, I agree that we can pay Hayward a max deal and then Tatum a max deal the year after. Sure we can (as long as I'm not paying the salary or the tax).

reality is teams have 2-3 max players on a roster at the same time now. we already have Hayward and Kemba now. next year Browns new deal starts at around $22M and is NOT a max deal even.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2020/

next year if Hayward and Kanter both opt in, we are at $142M in salarys which is over the tax line already, thats with 14 players under contracts and cap holds on Wanamaker, Tacko and Waters. and with NO rookies counted.

on 2021 we have 7 players under contract counting $89M, if we add both Hayward and Tatum at eve near max deals, we  would have 9 players at something like $160M. That would be likely already over the tax line by $10-20M and we need to fill out the roster,

So if you have the Bird rights, can you go over the cap with or without getting taxed?

cowens,

Bird rights is an exception which allows a team to sign their own free agent(s) for more money than is usually allowed when a team is over the salary cap.  

There is nothing special about that salary, except that the team can be over the salary cap when creating it.

All player's salaries get added together and make up the team salary.

If the team salary gets too high, a luxury tax gets added so that the rich teams don't continually rule over the poor teams.

So no, signing a player (or players) with the Bird Rights Exception does not lessen the luxury tax hit on a team.

gyso

There is no reasonable way to avoid the luxury tax with 4 players in the $25 mill per year + range.

The repeater tax will become expensive.

I really do not think that the Celtics owners have the stomach for that.  A championship may however impact their appetite.

Business owners find it hard to justify paying out salary + penalties on a team that is not winning titles.

This is my opinion and I am sure many people will disagree with it but if we are not able to retain GH it will mostly be because Danny signed Kemba to a max deal.

If you have drafted well and somehow manage to draft a kid like Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum and their horizon is far into the future, spending money to retain them is justified.

There is no doubt in my mind that Tatum is going to get paid.   Not sure at all if GH gets a new contract.  I think he should but I do not write the checks.

There is no upside to either Kemba or Gordon.  Yet both can be instrumental in getting banner # 18.

Kemba is on the books but Gordon is on the bubble.

I am pretty certain that GH will get a lot of attention because he can complete a team.  Danny knows that.  Brad knows that.  

Let's hope that the Celtics find a way to keep GH.  As of today, right now, this very moment, GH is the BEST overall player on the Celtics.  Down the road either Tatum or Brown could ascend to that position of dominance but not this year.

If his season continues at the current pace, Hayward will seek a max deal.

He's 30, so the light at the end of the tunnel is in view. He's going to look for the top dollar with his last chance to make bank.

It's going to get expensive to sign everyone that's needed, but that's the way it goes if you want to be among the elite in the NBA. Hopefully Hayward can be a part of what could be a breakthrough season next year.

and its not considered to be a stellar free agent class next season, which is another reason Hayward "could" opt out for longer term security.

Hayward is ranked #7 among possible Free agents here:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-free-agency-top-30-players-in-next-years-class-led-by-anthony-davis-demar-derozan-brandon-ingram/

My bet is he'll want his young family to stay in Boston to take advantage of the schools and culture. Thus he'll sign a 4 year, $120M extension.

worcester wrote:My bet is he'll want his young family to stay in Boston to take advantage of the schools and culture. Thus he'll sign a 4 year, $120M extension.

I wonder if he told Danny and Brad something along these lines. If Danny knew he would be seeking as much money as possible AND that ownership wouldn't pay, he would have tried to move him. $30M a year is still a lot, even for Gordon.

He should take a cap friendly deal of 22-25 mill, that’s still plenty for him and his family.

cowens/oldschool wrote:He should take a cap friendly deal of 22-25 mill, that’s still plenty for him and his family.

I was thinking something around what Brown  signed. However Hayward would possibly be leaving as much as $15M per year on the table off a max deal for a player at his experience.  This is IF you assume some team would be willing to pay him Max money .

that's a whole lotta $$$ to leave on the table for any player, no matter how much he likes to play for a coach or a certain team.

I could see him opting in next year and then seeing whats out there the following year. IF so next year would likely be Hayward's final year here, as Tatum's new deal will kick in then ( the following year). IF Hayward get an offer more than the Celtics want to pay, he can allow Ainge to do a sign and trade to bring back assets.

Remember Ainge let Horford walk when the $$$ were too high.

in the end I think it gets kicked down another year, before a decision has to be made.

A lot if speculation here. Hayward will be a top 10 FA and if he is willing to play for a team like the Hawks or the grizlies he could walk.

I think a contract in the range of what JB got is reasonable but just keep in mind he is a lot older and has sustained a horrific injury which may reduce his value.

We have to wait until after the season to see what happens.