Post Game Thread - vs Pistons, Home 2/12/21

[bobheckler]

I got dragged away to a virtual birthday party for a friend, so I missed most of the game.

I'll let others discuss the game in more depth, but here's what jumped out at me in the part I saw.

Tatum with a healthy box score, but he was awful in the 1st half that I watched. He shot 9-22, 41%. He shot 44.4% vs LAC and then in the 30s in the next 3 games.

PP with his first NBA start, and he looked it. He was much too deferential.

Our bench was awful.

We are exhausted, running on fumes and our upcoming schedule gives us no breaks. If there's one silver lining here it's that we have played the fewest home games in the league to-date and that, hopefully, will all balance out later. Having an extended home stand at the end of the season to get our postponed home games in could provide us with some momentum heading into the playoffs.


https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401267572


Bob


.

[worcester]

Bey with 30. Nesmith 0.

[Vankisa]

Bey with 30. Nesmith 0.

Do not forget to add PP with 2 points on 1-5 in 28 minutes

I did not watch the game, was Jaylen looking ok? I would have preferred he sit out, specifically on another lackluster loss

[cowens/oldschool]

Bey with 30. Nesmith 0.

Boy did Danny mess up, this kid Bey is 6’8” and jacked, can drive and shoot, had a break out game against us and who knows if Nesmith will ever be ready? but the overall game of Bey, not the shooting, is so much stronger than Nesmith. How good would he look playing with 2 J’s?

There were also under the radar free agents that also could have really helped just as role players, Nickolas Batum, Bobby Portis and we signed Jeff Teague. I know we couldn’t get the big fish, but just some good role players would have been huge. Does anyone know how long RWill is supposed to be out.

What the league has done with this season cramming in so many games, exhausting the players is just a sham, how did the Players Association approve of this? Putting players at risk with covid is bad enough, now they have to be so exhausted and ripe for injury on top of that...???

[cowens/oldschool]

Bey with 30. Nesmith 0.

Do not forget to add PP with 2 points on 1-5 in 28 minutes

I did not watch the game, was Jaylen looking ok? I would have preferred he sit out, specifically on another lackluster loss

He played/fought hard, you could see he was fatigued, but he still played hard thru it. I too wanted him to take the night off, he fell down numerous times. This team needs 3 days off....

[worcester]

Batum was also a big miss. You are right Cow.

[cowens/oldschool]

Bey with 30. Nesmith 0.

I remember dboss wanted Bey as did my son, you guys sure were right.

Danny has really been missing lately.

[dboss]

Games like these are always decided by one or 2 plays down the stretch.  More on that further down.

We miss Marcus Smart!

Do you remember the breakout playoff series against the Bucks?  No Kyrie Irving and no Gordon Hayward.  Marcus was hurt before the series began but came back and his very presence flipped the series in favor of the Celtics.  It wasn't big time scoring as we got that from the J's and Terry.  It was about the man up defense.  

Tristian Thompson is an over-cooked side of tough and extremely dried beef.  Some bizarre character from an old Charles Dickens novel that is sure to produce horrid dreams along with a bad case of indigestion.  We have to stop imagining that we saw some light when he secures 11 boards one night.  The pattern seems to reveal a pathway littered with nonproductive contributions.  His 2 point, 4 rebound performance is symptomatic.

Jayson and Jaylen once again carried our offense while combining for 60 points.  Elite players do not need to take bad shots.  Unfortunately Jayson Tatum takes one too many ill advised shots that more closely resemble some meaningless game of horse in some kids backyard.  Why the F is Jaylen slipping so much on the floor?  It is as if everyone is playing on hardwood but he is sliding on ice.  It must be the shoes.

Semi was off to another look see game but as Ronald Regan once said when debating Jimma, "There you go again"  This injury bug is like a snake.  Geez!

PP had a rookie level game but that is okay because I know he can play.

Jeff Teague with 8 points diminished by 2 assists and 2 turnovers.

Gwill and Carsen.  Nothing to see here.  Move along, move along.

Javonte with a late game appearance producing 7 points on 3-3 shooting, 4 rebounds, 2 steals and a block.  Does not matter as Brad has not figure out if he should play or not.

Decision making late in games determines most outcomes.  Case in point Daniel Theis late in the game launching an ill advised 3 point shot.   93-87 Pistons, Daniel Theis misses a 3 point shot.   98-95 Pistons, Daniel Theis misses a 3 point shot.  The 2nd shot was a end of clock deal so that had to be taken but that first one showed a poor decision because Jayson had the rock drove to the right and then decided to flip it out to Theis.  Theis was 0-4 from behind the arc.  I know he has shot well this year but the truth is that every time he takes a 3 point shot I do not expect him to make it.    

I liked Bey before the draft as cow pointed out.  I thought he would have been a solid 2 way guy.  He is a Jae Crowder with a more consistent shot.  Be that as it may, Aaron is not getting a chance to play.  Bey is on a team where minutes are there for the taking and coach Casey knows how to develop young players.  Brad Stevens on the other hand has limited his players like Semi and Robert Williams and is doing the same with Nesmith.  It is not like their positional skills is not needed.   Brad needs the athleticism that Robert has.  He needs the defense and shooting skills of Semi and he needs a wing off the bench like Nesmith who can shoot the 3 ball.

Brad will get it but he is a step slow in figuring out the obvious.

[Ktron]

Bey with 30. Nesmith 0.

Do not forget to add PP with 2 points on 1-5 in 28 minutes

I did not watch the game, was Jaylen looking ok? I would have preferred he sit out, specifically on another lackluster loss

He played/fought hard, you could see he was fatigued, but he still played hard thru it. I too wanted him to take the night off, he fell down numerous times. This team needs 3 days off....

I said last night on the thread that it appeared that Jaylen was getting knocked or slipping down on the floor all night.
During postgame Jalen said the same thing. “Every time I turned around I was on the floor”. He was obviously exhausted and by some of his other comments, not happy with the rotating in and out of players all night.
Am I wrong to start questioning Brad? I like the guy, think he's a good coach but maybe he is in over his head with this squad. Maybe?

[Ktron]

Games like these are always decided by one or 2 plays down the stretch.  More on that further down.

We miss Marcus Smart!

Do you remember the breakout playoff series against the Bucks?  No Kyrie Irving and no Gordon Hayward.  Marcus was hurt before the series began but came back and his very presence flipped the series in favor of the Celtics.  It wasn't big time scoring as we got that from the J's and Terry.  It was about the man up defense.  

Tristian Thompson is an over-cooked side of tough and extremely dried beef.  Some bizarre character from an old Charles Dickens novel that is sure to produce horrid dreams along with a bad case of indigestion.  We have to stop imagining that we saw some light when he secures 11 boards one night.  The pattern seems to reveal a pathway littered with nonproductive contributions.  His 2 point, 4 rebound performance is symptomatic.

Jayson and Jaylen once again carried our offense while combining for 60 points.  Elite players do not need to take bad shots.  Unfortunately Jayson Tatum takes one too many ill advised shots that more closely resemble some meaningless game of horse in some kids backyard.  Why the F is Jaylen slipping so much on the floor?  It is as if everyone is playing on hardwood but he is sliding on ice.  It must be the shoes.

Semi was off to another look see game but as Ronald Regan once said when debating Jimma, "There you go again"  This injury bug is like a snake.  Geez!

PP had a rookie level game but that is okay because I know he can play.

Jeff Teague with 8 points diminished by 2 assists and 2 turnovers.

Gwill and Carsen.  Nothing to see here.  Move along, move along.

Javonte with a late game appearance producing 7 points on 3-3 shooting, 4 rebounds, 2 steals and a block.  Does not matter as Brad has not figure out if he should play or not.

Decision making late in games determines most outcomes.  Case in point Daniel Theis late in the game launching an ill advised 3 point shot.   93-87 Pistons, Daniel Theis misses a 3 point shot.   98-95 Pistons, Daniel Theis misses a 3 point shot.  The 2nd shot was a end of clock deal so that had to be taken but that first one showed a poor decision because Jayson had the rock drove to the right and then decided to flip it out to Theis.  Theis was 0-4 from behind the arc.  I know he has shot well this year but the truth is that every time he takes a 3 point shot I do not expect him to make it.    

I liked Bey before the draft as cow pointed out.  I thought he would have been a solid 2 way guy.  He is a Jae Crowder with a more consistent shoot.  Be that as it may, Aaron is not getting a chance to play.  Bey is on a team where minutes are there for the taking and coach Casey knows how to develop young players.  Brad Stevens on the other hand has limited his players like Semi and Robert Williams and is doing the same with Nesmith.  It is not like their positional skills is not needed.   Brad needs the athleticism that Robert has.  He needs the defense and shooting skills of Semi and he needs a wing off the bench like Nesmith who can shoot the 3 ball.

Brad will get it but he is a step slow in figuring out the obvious.

Dboss, Your Discript of TT is hilarious but oh so true. I gotta admit, Ive been wanting him on this team since 2018. Well its 2021 and he is not the same TT. 1 decent game, dried Dinosaurus Burgers the next 2. He can make a hell of a lay up but outside of that we are screwed.

[Vankisa]

Games like these are always decided by one or 2 plays down the stretch.  More on that further down.

We miss Marcus Smart!

Do you remember the breakout playoff series against the Bucks?  No Kyrie Irving and no Gordon Hayward.  Marcus was hurt before the series began but came back and his very presence flipped the series in favor of the Celtics.  It wasn't big time scoring as we got that from the J's and Terry.  It was about the man up defense.  

Tristian Thompson is an over-cooked side of tough and extremely dried beef.  Some bizarre character from an old Charles Dickens novel that is sure to produce horrid dreams along with a bad case of indigestion.  We have to stop imagining that we saw some light when he secures 11 boards one night.  The pattern seems to reveal a pathway littered with nonproductive contributions.  His 2 point, 4 rebound performance is symptomatic.

Jayson and Jaylen once again carried our offense while combining for 60 points.  Elite players do not need to take bad shots.  Unfortunately Jayson Tatum takes one too many ill advised shots that more closely resemble some meaningless game of horse in some kids backyard.  Why the F is Jaylen slipping so much on the floor?  It is as if everyone is playing on hardwood but he is sliding on ice.  It must be the shoes.

Semi was off to another look see game but as Ronald Regan once said when debating Jimma, "There you go again"  This injury bug is like a snake.  Geez!

PP had a rookie level game but that is okay because I know he can play.

Jeff Teague with 8 points diminished by 2 assists and 2 turnovers.

Gwill and Carsen.  Nothing to see here.  Move along, move along.

Javonte with a late game appearance producing 7 points on 3-3 shooting, 4 rebounds, 2 steals and a block.  Does not matter as Brad has not figure out if he should play or not.

Decision making late in games determines most outcomes.  Case in point Daniel Theis late in the game launching an ill advised 3 point shot.   93-87 Pistons, Daniel Theis misses a 3 point shot.   98-95 Pistons, Daniel Theis misses a 3 point shot.  The 2nd shot was a end of clock deal so that had to be taken but that first one showed a poor decision because Jayson had the rock drove to the right and then decided to flip it out to Theis.  Theis was 0-4 from behind the arc.  I know he has shot well this year but the truth is that every time he takes a 3 point shot I do not expect him to make it.    

I liked Bey before the draft as cow pointed out.  I thought he would have been a solid 2 way guy.  He is a Jae Crowder with a more consistent shot.  Be that as it may, Aaron is not getting a chance to play.  Bey is on a team where minutes are there for the taking and coach Casey knows how to develop young players.  Brad Stevens on the other hand has limited his players like Semi and Robert Williams and is doing the same with Nesmith.  It is not like their positional skills is not needed.   Brad needs the athleticism that Robert has.  He needs the defense and shooting skills of Semi and he needs a wing off the bench like Nesmith who can shoot the 3 ball.

Brad will get it but he is a step slow in figuring out the obvious.

Yeah, I have been saying for a while now that Danny seemed to have missed badly with both our additions this offseason. I was one of the supporters for Teague in particular and we all thought TT was a great addition.

Both have been detrimental to both offense and defense, particularly and unfortunately to the defense where we are usually one of the best nba teams.


On the last plays I completely disagree with you dboss. I have not watched the entire game yet but just replayed those plays a couple of times.
Those are the correct plays. Those are the plays that got JT 10 assists and JB 9 assists the other night. This play not converting into points is NOT on Jason Tatum. You cannot get a more open jumper than that and from the straight up the rim. It is a version of "should have Lebron passed to Danny Green for a wiiide open 3 or not". Except this is not even the playoffs.
This is the correct play in ANY season game for me. Good job Tatum. Bad misses from Theis. The failure to convert is partly Brad's fault for me for not running a play where a better 3pt shooter would get it open or not drilling such a play for such situations for his player, but in MUCH bigger part the blame for both of these misses lay with Theis and Danny Ainge. Theis for obvious reasons and Danny Ainge for not surrounding 2 studs on superstar level and age<25 with better supporting cast.

[dboss]

Vankisa

I was not really going after JT although I did mention his propensity to play 'horse' When we needed him to play horse with us down 93-87 he decides to pas the ball to DT who did not make a 3 ball all night. Basically JT should have taken the shot. He takes every other shot. We are just not closing games out and that is the main reason we are losing close games. Decision making, execution and fortitude are abysmal.

I did not mention any missed shots by JT in particular. In general he probably takes one too many hero shots even when they are not needed. The J's carried us on offense as they normally do. We should win games when our pair drops 60 points.

[dboss]

ktron

I actually thought that TT was a good addition and that JT could still play. I'm 0-2.

Me thinks a Hayward trade for Turner and whomever would have been better or for the money, a Serge Ibaka addition would have been an upgrade.

TT has a very tradeable 2 year deal and Teague is gone after this year. I would bet even money that IT would have produced better than Teague.

[bobheckler]

Bey with 30. Nesmith 0.

Do not forget to add PP with 2 points on 1-5 in 28 minutes

I did not watch the game, was Jaylen looking ok? I would have preferred he sit out, specifically on another lackluster loss

Van,

Here's Jaylen's post game presser.  He talks about the officiating and fatigue.  You can hear he's exhausted and frustrated.




Bob


.

[NYCelt]

Pistons' smart moves on draft day are quickly paying off.

Although they still have a long way to go, Detroit has a young roster that looks like it will build and improve in the next few seasons. Tanking? I'm not so sure, but if they get another draft haul like the last one, look out.

That new GM of theirs, Weaver, is doing an excellent job.

[Vankisa]

Vankisa

I was not really going after JT although I did mention his propensity to play 'horse'  When we needed him to play horse with us down 93-87 he decides to pas the ball to DT who did not make a 3 ball all night.  Basically JT should have taken the shot.   He takes every other shot.  We are just not closing games out and that is the main reason we are losing close games.  Decision making, execution and fortitude are abysmal.

I did not mention any missed shots by JT in particular.  In general he probably takes one too many hero shots even when they are not needed.  The J's carried us on offense as they normally do.  We should win games when our pair drops 60 points.

I agree with you that Tatum plays hero ball a bit too often and he has been doing that ever since his tutelage with Kobe seems to me. I also agree we should win a game where our top guns score 60 points.

However, I reiterate I completely disagree with this statement "Case in point Daniel Theis late in the game launching an ill advised 3 point shot.". It was the right play even if it was Lebron James and not JT. The fact that Jason he has a propensity to play 'horse' should be actually WHY we WANT him to pass the ball out of a double team with 1 minute to play to a WIDE open guy that is shooting a freaking 41.8% on threes this season. I cannot remember how many times I had gone "Tatum, learn when you are double teamed to anticipate the open man" after a bad turnover by JT, specifically in late game situations. Basketball is a team game even though the NBA is very star oriented league.

And yes I DO believe plays should be designed and executed differently at the end of games as opposed to in 1Q-3Q. And I still believe this was absolutely the right play and I applaud JT AND Brad for designing/executing it (In the case of Brad I would prefer to have another shooter screen, but you work with what you have is also a truth I guess).

This is how JT and JB will grow to the top 5-10 NBA players or even top 1-5, by learning to read the game and make the right play, be it forcing the issue or knowing when to pass the rock and trust their teammates. No team ever won with just 2 players regardless how good they were. I think it is the most important thing for this more or less lost season for me to focus on the development of the Js and have them grow into the superstars that can win championships, not the ones that just flash around great talent. And what I saw in the Toronto game and those 2 plays in particular you are criticizing is quite encouraging to me on that front

[Vankisa]

Bob,

he sounds completely beat. I hope it is the physical fatigue from playing hard while not 100% and not a mental fatigue as well. I would definitely sit him out for a game if I were Brad with the schedule being so brutal.

[kdp59]

Pistons' smart moves on draft day are quickly paying off.

Although they still have a long way to go, Detroit has a young roster that looks like it will build and improve in the next few seasons. Tanking? I'm not so sure, but if they get another draft haul like the last one, look out.

That new GM of theirs, Weaver, is doing an excellent job.

perhaps, though I'm not so sure how great his moves have been to date. as you said time will tell.

however Hayes hasn't done a thing yet for being a top 10 pick. Stewart and Bey are putting up decent (but certainly not exceptional) numbers on one of the worst teams in the NBA I would note. reminds me of guys like Okafor and Williams who put up more impressive numbers in their rookies years on terrible teams. Only to be mired quickly as vet minimum end of benchers.

D. Wirght, M. Plumlee...neither has looked like game changers , given the chance to start. J. jackson?......um....still can't shoot, end of bench guy on a good team at best to me.

now GRANT has been a big surprise with his scoring this year. but again is it because the Pistons are just THAT bad? One would look at Grants past season and think so.

finally the GM has the rotting corpse of Blake Griffin still on that team. IF he could somhoe find a team willing to take on the rest of his deal, then I might agree with you on his job on just THAT move alone!!

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