Goodman: Brad Stevens' 5-year extension doesn't mean Celtics might not explore change

Goodman: Brad Stevens' 5-year extension doesn't mean Celtics might not explore change

Goodman By WEEI

3 hours ago

According to The Stadium's Jeff Goodman, Brad Stevens' contract extension was for five years, putting him under contract with the team for six seasons.

That, however, doesn't mean a change at the Celtics head coaching spot is out of the question.

Appearing on the Ken and Curtis Show Saturday, Goodman presented scenarios Celtics general manager Danny Ainge might consider if the underachieving C's don't find a way to win at last one playoff series.


One of the primary options, according to Goodman, may very well include Stevens.

"After this year if you don't win a playoff series, which it doesn't look like they're going to do, I think you have a decision to make if you're Danny Ainge," Goodman explained. "Door A is making a move on Brad Stevens. And Door B is exploring the opportunity of trading Jaylen Brown and seeing what you can get. I'm not saying you give him away. I have been a proponent of trading him in a deal for Bradley Beal. But I think you have to explore it because there is no other option that is going to bring you something that is really going to change the complexion of this team. You're not trading Jayson Tatum. It would be stupid. He's an MVP candidate in a few years. You're not trading Kemba Walker because you're going to get 50 cents on the dollar right now, so it would be bad business. Trading Jaylen Brown, his value is really, really high. There might be somebody out there, whether's Tommy Shepherd, the GM of Washington, or somebody else, who thinks I can build my franchise around this guy. He's that good and he's gotten so much better over the last year or so. It's not crazy to think that some GM out there would give a ton for Jaylen Brown."

The Stevens move, obviously, would be a tough one for Ainge considering the commitment made to his coach in August.


"You're not going to find a higher character guy, but, listen, at some point you have to look in the mirror if you're Danny Ainge and say, 'We can't go in with the same group next year. We have to do something different.' And the easier move to make obviously is the coach," Goodman said of Stevens. "Maybe it's just not clicking right now. Brad Stevens, listen, if something happens with him he's going to find a new spot in the NBA within five minutes. So don't feel sorry for Brad, he'll be just fine. It wouldn't shock me if he took the year off and spent it with his family and his kids and whatnot. Brad is a different type of dude that way. But you do need somebody ... Can you get a former NBA player in? I think that's what Danny would look for if he made a move. But, listen, they signed Brad to a five-year deal last year with a ton of money. So is Wyc going to pay that money out at this point? Again, the alternative is there is three deals here: It's Brad, it's Jaylen and it's going with what you have again next year. And I think that's what will frustrate fans a lot more and Danny a lot more if they pick up where they left off and they're just kind of a middle of the Eastern Conference playoff team, which I don't see them being any better if they keep this group together. It's not like Kemba is going to be the old Kemba at 25, 26 years old at 100 percent every night. We've seen what we're going to get from Kemba. He's going to have some great nights and then he's going to be out of the lineup and he's going to have some poor shooting nights. There is inconsistency among Kemba, and I think Kemba is a sort of a microcosm of where the Celtics are right now. They're just inconsistent. You don't know what to expect."

Asked to confirm that the extension given to Stevens was indeed five years, Goodman added, "Yeah. We don't know the money, because Brad ... his lawyer is his wife so there's not a lot of leaks that come out of the Brad Stevens camp, and rightfully so. So, yeah, it was a five-year deal for a lot of money. A lot of money."


112288

No Bob, he just wants you to think he has an inside knowledge of what is really going on with the Celtics management. He is a blowhard

bobheckler wrote:I think this guy gets paid by the column-inch because instead of trying to cram 10 pounds of shite into a 5 pound bag he's trying to spread 5 pounds of shite around the inside of a 10 pound bag and is trying to convince you he's filled it.

"Can you get a former NBA player in? I think that's what Danny would look for if he made a move."  Like who?  Gimme a name.  You don't want to bring in a former player with limited to no coaching experience, that'd be a step back.  So, who?  Doc?  Nope.  Ty Lue?  Barring an implosion in Clipperland, nope.

Everybody's frustrated, I get it, but I see Brad leaving as a probable non-starter.  Wyc and Danny aren't going to fire him, he won't quit, and every time someone talks about replacing Brad they never offer up anybody in particular.  


Bob


.

Goodman is a light weight and as you (or was that James Brown) said in so many words “Talking loud and saying nothing” I have read some of his other pieces and watched him on podcasts and this is just a rehash of what he’s been saying without a really solid solution all year.
As far as who’s out there, lets role play here. Owner(me). GM (you). Me: “I don’t think the players are listening nor respecting Brad’s coaching. I thinks he’s done a great job up until now and I still think he is one of the best but it may be time for him to find another team and for us to find another coach. Anyone out there worth pursuing?” You: Like who?  Gimme a name.  You don't want to bring in a former player with limited to no coaching experience, that'd be a step back.  So, who?  Doc?  Nope.  Ty Lue?  Barring an implosion in Clipperland, nope. Me: Hmm, well seeing that I hired you and asked you to give me a name and you instead asked me not only who but also asked me to recommend to you who you should hire that I should pay to coach this team tells me that I don’t need you so...You’re fired!!”  
Seriously though, and again I’m not advocating that Brad be fired. That may be one of the solutions but may not be THE solution. As for who may be out there? Think about when Doc was leaving or right after he left. Honestly, how many of us on this board thought about hiring Brad Stevens? Raise your hand. Exactly me point. Let’s not assume that there is no body out there. There is.

"Fire the coach!" is the oldest cure in the books. Players, coaches, and GMs around the league seem to agree that this season has been FUBAR. The Celtics have been hit as hard or harder than any team in the league due to Covid and injuries (which were probably made worse by the schedule.) Five of our young rotation players are solid long term NBA starters and two of them are already stars. Those five (JT, JB, RW, PP, and AN) will be very good to great for the next 5+ years. So the future is so bright you need sunglasses. As for who Brad is giving minutes right now, I suspect the he has two main concerns: Getting to 6th spot and getting guys who will be playing big minutes in the playoffs reps playing together. Second guessing him on player minutes is way above my paygrade. This year has proven to be a crapshoot. No radical moves are justified by black swan events.

Here is a novel idea. How about trading Brad! Get some compensation for him.

112288

Just a bunch of baloney!!!!!!!!!

atcross wrote:"Fire the coach!" is the oldest cure in the books. Players, coaches, and GMs around the league seem to agree that this season has been FUBAR. The Celtics have been hit as hard or harder than any team in the league due to Covid and injuries (which were probably made worse by the schedule.) Five of our young rotation players are solid long term NBA starters and two of them are already stars. Those five (JT, JB, RW, PP, and AN) will be very good to great for the next 5+ years. So the future is so bright you need sunglasses. As for who Brad is giving minutes right now, I suspect the he has two main concerns: Getting to 6th spot and getting guys who will be playing big minutes in the playoffs reps playing together. Second guessing him on player minutes is way above my paygrade. This year has proven to be a crapshoot. No radical moves are justified by black swan events.  

A voice of reason. Thank you for sharing that. And it’s not that I agree or disagree with what you’ve written-it’s the thoughtfulness I appreciate.

bobheckler wrote:

Ktron wrote:

bobheckler wrote:I think this guy gets paid by the column-inch because instead of trying to cram 10 pounds of shite into a 5 pound bag he's trying to spread 5 pounds of shite around the inside of a 10 pound bag and is trying to convince you he's filled it.

"Can you get a former NBA player in? I think that's what Danny would look for if he made a move."  Like who?  Gimme a name.  You don't want to bring in a former player with limited to no coaching experience, that'd be a step back.  So, who?  Doc?  Nope.  Ty Lue?  Barring an implosion in Clipperland, nope.

Everybody's frustrated, I get it, but I see Brad leaving as a probable non-starter.  Wyc and Danny aren't going to fire him, he won't quit, and every time someone talks about replacing Brad they never offer up anybody in particular.  


Bob


.

Goodman is a light weight and as you (or was that James Brown) said in so many words “Talking loud and saying nothing” I have read some of his other pieces and watched him on podcasts and this is just a rehash of what he’s been saying without a really solid solution all year.
As far as who’s out there, lets role play here. Owner(me). GM (you). Me: “I don’t think the players are listening nor respecting Brad’s coaching. I thinks he’s done a great job up until now and I still think he is one of the best but it may be time for him to find another team and for us to find another coach. Anyone out there worth pursuing?” You: Like who?  Gimme a name.  You don't want to bring in a former player with limited to no coaching experience, that'd be a step back.  So, who?  Doc?  Nope.  Ty Lue?  Barring an implosion in Clipperland, nope. Me: Hmm, well seeing that I hired you and asked you to give me a name and you instead asked me not only who but also asked me to recommend to you who you should hire that I should pay to coach this team tells me that I don’t need you so...You’re fired!!”  
Seriously though, and again I’m not advocating that Brad be fired. That may be one of the solutions but may not be THE solution. As for who may be out there? Think about when Doc was leaving or right after he left. Honestly, how many of us on this board thought about hiring Brad Stevens?  Raise your hand. Exactly me point. Let’s not assume that there is no body out there. There is.

ktron,

Pointing out there isn't any NBA head coach who has experience and was a former player himself available isn't a reflection on me, it's a reflection of the market.  There isn't such a coach available and firing me won't change that, not that shooting the messenger because you don't like the message isn't a time-worn response.


Bob


.

My point is/was Bob is that who says that that coach is not available or out there somewhere? That’s the GMs job. To go find that person. If you come back and say “there’s no one out there and there are hundreds of coaches coaching somewhere there has to be someone that is at least close to fitting the bill. Teams change coaches all the time, some are hits and some are misses but you cant say that there is no one out there. Again, Brad Stevens probably wasn’t even someone any one of us thought of as being the next coach of the C’s until he was hired. Btw if we were to just look at former NBA coaches/players, The lakers have 2 asst’s Hollins and Kidd who may not be your choice but are qualified. That’s just to name a few.
Ok so you talked me out of firing you.. for now. But, I want 5 names on my desk by the first of the month. :>)

HERE IS MY POINT WHICH I MENTIONED IN THE CHICAGO POST GAME.

BRAD STEVENS HARDLY EVER PUTS TOGETHER A SOLID LOCK DOWN GAME STRATEGY WHEN A KEY GAME IS ON THE LINE.

CASE IN POINT..............TODAYS LOSS TO MIAMI! CASE CLOSED!

You allow on your home court 36 1st period points, and 43 2nd period points, you are down 26 points at the half. Are you kidding! Please rap your brain around what I just wrote. And people are still in denial that Brad is not the problem. Are we all mixing our medicines again?

He is the problem!

112288

112288

112288 wrote:HERE IS MY POINT WHICH I MENTIONED IN THE CHICAGO POST GAME.

BRAD STEVENS HARDLY EVER PUTS TOGETHER A SOLID LOCK DOWN GAME STRATEGY WHEN A KEY GAME IS ON THE LINE.

CASE IN POINT..............TODAYS LOSS TO MIAMI!  CASE CLOSED!

You allow on your home court 36 1st period points, and 43 2nd period points, you are down 26 points at the half.    Are you kidding!   Please rap your brain around what I just wrote.  And people are still in denial that Brad is not the problem.  Are we all mixing our medicines again?

He is the problem!

112288

112288

So Stevens is a bad first half coach. But must be a great second half coach.

How can he be a great second half coach if he still lost the game!

112288

112288 wrote:How can he be a great second half coach if he still lost the game!

112288

First, I was being somewhat sarcastic. Second, win or lose, the Cs have had a number of games where they dug a big hole and then managed to climb most, if not all, of the way out of it. What is the coach doing differently at halftime? Wouldn't staff have noticed it and corrected by now? I'm just a fan, but it seems that the problem is too many new faces without enough practice time together. And Smart and Tatum are trying to take it on their shoulders and sometimes end up making it worse. They're forcing shots and passes when easier shots and passes would be available when everyone was in the right place at the right time. (There was a reason Rondo sometimes pounded the ball. He was waiting for people to get to their spots.) They attack the rim but frequently they are driving directly into the defense without having an option B. When they do realize the drive isn't succeeding it's too late to make a clean pass out. They're still invaluable players but they are not floor generals. Bottom line, between the young studs prone to overdoing it, the lack of a preseason and practice time, five new rotation players that were not in the rotation last year (EF, TT, PP, AN, and RW [injured]), and everyone of the guys in rotation having been down for significant time due to covid/injury, I'd say there might be mitigating factors. None of that is on the coach, with the possible exception of Smart and Tatum trying to play the point.

There's an old rubric that great coaches are made by coaching great players. Stevens has good--maybe some great--players, but he hasn't had a chance to make them into a great team in this crazy season. And a lot of other coaches have a lot of great players as well. Plus there's another old rubric: The coach hasn't played a single minute. Eventually it's the players.

AT CROSS

You point out some good problems, and the coach must see this on film. If he cannot fix it by a change of play, or cannot fix it because of players bench them.

I just think Stevens has no clue on a total cohesive strategy both on offense and defense and how to get the best out of your star players. This team needs a refresh both with talent and with team strategy which means a coaching change. Otherwise you will still have the same old malaise.

112288

Going back to the article at the beginning of this one...

Kind of a non-debate, isn't it?

Coaches get fired shortly after extensions sometimes. It happens.

No coach lasts forever, except maybe Pop down in San Antonio. After their history the past 10 or so years, and a season like the Celtics are experiencing, it's a safe guess to say there will be change. I would think neither the GM nor the head coach are planning any major home improvements right now. I don't think either one will depart quite yet, I think they get at least another year. Still, it wouldn't really surprise me if one or both did get the boot. Pro sports is very much a what have you done for me lately business. It's starting to be too long and too many adjustments that haven't worked for the Celtics. Ownership can only stay confident in leadership for so long.

If I was a betting man i would bet that Brad Stevens will still be coaching this team next season however the luster has worn off and  the seat is warming up.

As much as I would like to point to all the injuries there still seems be be something missing here.

This season is just about over and maybe or maybe not we go a bit further.

I am going to let this one play out but I would not oppose a coaching change because sometimes players just need a new voice.

bobheckler wrote:

Ktron wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

Ktron wrote:

bobheckler wrote:I think this guy gets paid by the column-inch because instead of trying to cram 10 pounds of shite into a 5 pound bag he's trying to spread 5 pounds of shite around the inside of a 10 pound bag and is trying to convince you he's filled it.

"Can you get a former NBA player in? I think that's what Danny would look for if he made a move."  Like who?  Gimme a name.  You don't want to bring in a former player with limited to no coaching experience, that'd be a step back.  So, who?  Doc?  Nope.  Ty Lue?  Barring an implosion in Clipperland, nope.

Everybody's frustrated, I get it, but I see Brad leaving as a probable non-starter.  Wyc and Danny aren't going to fire him, he won't quit, and every time someone talks about replacing Brad they never offer up anybody in particular.  


Bob


.

Goodman is a light weight and as you (or was that James Brown) said in so many words “Talking loud and saying nothing” I have read some of his other pieces and watched him on podcasts and this is just a rehash of what he’s been saying without a really solid solution all year.
As far as who’s out there, lets role play here. Owner(me). GM (you). Me: “I don’t think the players are listening nor respecting Brad’s coaching. I thinks he’s done a great job up until now and I still think he is one of the best but it may be time for him to find another team and for us to find another coach. Anyone out there worth pursuing?” You: Like who?  Gimme a name.  You don't want to bring in a former player with limited to no coaching experience, that'd be a step back.  So, who?  Doc?  Nope.  Ty Lue?  Barring an implosion in Clipperland, nope. Me: Hmm, well seeing that I hired you and asked you to give me a name and you instead asked me not only who but also asked me to recommend to you who you should hire that I should pay to coach this team tells me that I don’t need you so...You’re fired!!”  
Seriously though, and again I’m not advocating that Brad be fired. That may be one of the solutions but may not be THE solution. As for who may be out there? Think about when Doc was leaving or right after he left. Honestly, how many of us on this board thought about hiring Brad Stevens?  Raise your hand. Exactly me point. Let’s not assume that there is no body out there. There is.

ktron,

Pointing out there isn't any NBA head coach who has experience and was a former player himself available isn't a reflection on me, it's a reflection of the market.  There isn't such a coach available and firing me won't change that, not that shooting the messenger because you don't like the message isn't a time-worn response.


Bob


.

My point is/was Bob is that who says that that coach is not available or out there somewhere? That’s the GMs job. To go find that person. If you come back and say “there’s no one out there and there are hundreds of coaches coaching somewhere there has to be someone that is at least close to fitting the bill. Teams change coaches all the time, some are hits and some are misses but you cant say that there is no one out there. Again, Brad Stevens probably wasn’t even someone any one of us thought of as being the next coach of the C’s until he was hired. Btw if we were to just look at former NBA coaches/players, The lakers have 2 asst’s Hollins and Kidd who may not be your choice but are qualified. That’s just to name a few.
Ok so you talked me out of firing you.. for now. But, I want 5 names on my desk by the first of the month. :>)

ktron,

All 5 will start with 'Brad', just to set expectations.  Ask me again after the season, including the playoffs, and we'll see who's available and who might be an improvement.

"It ain't over 'til it's over" - Yogi Berra


Bob


.

True: It ain’t over till its over. False: There is no one out there.

atcross wrote:

112288 wrote:How can he be a great second half coach if he still lost the game!

112288

First, I was being somewhat sarcastic. Second, win or lose, the Cs have had a number of games where they dug a big hole and then managed to climb most, if not all, of the way out of it. What is the coach doing differently at halftime? Wouldn't staff have noticed it and corrected by now? I'm just a fan, but it seems that the problem is too many new faces without enough practice time together. And Smart and Tatum are trying to take it on their shoulders and sometimes end up making it worse. They're forcing shots and passes when easier shots and passes would be available when everyone was in the right place at the right time. (There was a reason Rondo sometimes pounded the ball. He was waiting for people to get to their spots.)  They attack the rim but frequently they are driving directly into the defense without having an option B. When they do realize the drive isn't succeeding it's too late to make a clean pass out. They're still invaluable players but they are not floor generals. Bottom line, between the young studs prone to overdoing it, the lack of a preseason and practice time, five new rotation players that were not in the rotation last year (EF, TT, PP, AN, and RW [injured]), and everyone of the guys in rotation having been down for significant time due to covid/injury, I'd say there might be mitigating factors. None of that is on the coach, with the possible exception of Smart and Tatum trying to play the point.

There's an old rubric that great coaches are made by coaching great players. Stevens has good--maybe some great--players, but he hasn't had a chance to make them into a great team in this crazy season. And a lot of other coaches have a lot of great players as well. Plus there's another old rubric: The coach hasn't played a single minute. Eventually it's the players.  

I hate this because I really like Brad and would love to see him turn this around and stay until I die but don’t write what you just wrote and say none of it is the coaches fault. Some of it is and some of it ain’t. What’s irritating is that we all love the team and want them to hang banner 18 but some of us are not dealing with reality.

dboss wrote:If I was a betting man i would bet that Brad Stevens will still be coaching this team next season however the luster has worn off and  the seat is warming up.

As much as I would like to point to all the injuries there still seems be be something missing here.

This season is just about over and maybe or maybe not we go a bit further.

I am going to let this one play out but I would not oppose a coaching change because sometimes players just need a new voice.

Yes. And some of those (key) players that need to hear a new voice need to hear it ...... elsewhere.

112288 wrote:AT CROSS

I just think Stevens has no clue on a total cohesive strategy both on offense and defense and how to get the best out of your star players.   This team needs a refresh both with talent and with team strategy which means a coaching change.   Otherwise you will still have the same old malaise.

112288

Stevens has no clue? Stevens took an unknown school to two NCAA finals, has gotten the Cs to the playoffs every year but his first, and to three ECFs. Suggesting he "has no clue" in developing a Off/Def strategy seems a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

As for those that think the team is tired of his voice, of his rotation players, only three (JT, JB, and MS), have been with him one complete season. (In two seasons Walker has only played 98 games total.) Stevens is known for keeping his players' attention by not haranguing them. And he has maybe the best reputation in the league for keeping players locked in to a team philosophy and team goals. And he has a reputation in the league for resurrecting players that other coaches had abandoned (e.g., Turner, Thomas.) Anyone who is tired of hearing his voice probably needs to move on to another coach or two until they mature. Screaming at them and jumping up and down isn't going to change them. But the only people suggesting they have tuned him out are on the outside looking in.

atcross,

It is a big stretch from college ball to the NBA!

Rick Patino found that out the hard way! In Boston, where he amassed a 102–146 record from 1997 to 2001.

112288
112288

atcross wrote:But the only people suggesting they have tuned him out are on the outside looking in.

Yup.