POST GAME CROOKLYN - HOME GAME #4 PLAYOFFS

Celtics Wrap: Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving Too Much As Boston Drops Game 4

by Sean T. McGuire

The Big Three of the Nets combine for 103 points while Brooklyn shot 58 percent as a team and ultimately erased all hope the seventh-seeded Celtics — playing without Kemba Walker, Robert Williams and Jaylen Brown — could come away with a Game 4 upset Sunday at TD Garden.

Brooklyn earned a 141-126 victory in Game 4 and thus split the two games in Boston en route to a 3-1 series lead in the first-round of the NBA Playoffs. The Nets turned the game around in the second quarter and ultimately put it away with a 27-point lead in the third quarter.

Jayson Tatum led the Celtics with 40 points on 10-for-22 from the field. It was a respectable performance, and perhaps would have been remembered by the 17,000 who packed TD Garden for the first time since the COVID-19 pandemic, if not for Brooklyn’s three stellar performances.

Kevin Durant led all scorers with 42 points on 14-for-20 from the field. Kyrie Irving put together a Garden-silencing performance of 39 points on 11-for-24 from the field with 11 rebounds while James Harden scored 23 points on an efficient 8-for-12 from the floor.


PG: Marcus Smart
SG: Evan Fournier
SF: Romeo Langford
PF: Jayson Tatum
C: Tristan Thompson

STRONG START
The Celtics came out buzzing with the crowd behind them Sunday, and it helped Boston take a 34-33 lead after the first quarter.

Boston received early contributions from Tatum, who scored 12 points during the first seven minutes of the game. At one point, a Tatum turnaround on Kevin Durand was followed by a Romeo Langford tip-slam, which not only brought fans to their feet, but also gave the C’s a 17-9 lead.

Boston was 8-for-15 to start the game after an Evan Fournier three-point play gave the Celtics a 27-20 lead with five minutes left.


The Nets, though, used a 10-3 run to close the gap in the final minutes of the quarter. Brooklyn shot 45 percent (9-for-20) in the period. Durant led all scorers with 17 first-quarter points while Kyrie Irving added 12 of his own.


Tatum finished with 14 in the quarter. Smart scored six while Fournier chipped in five.



CHANGING TIDE
The Celtics depth was tested early on in the second quarter, and it didn’t have enough. The Nets — while going against a five-man lineup of Semi Ojeleye, Grant Williams, Payton Pritchard, Langford and Fournier — opened the period with a 12-3 run over the first 3:25.

It allowed Brooklyn to take an eight-point lead before going into the half with a 73-60 advantage. The Nets, clearly depicted with 73 first-half points, had it all working as they shot 59 percent (26-for-44) from the field. Irving put his Game 3 struggles behind him while scoring 23 first-half points despite getting booed almost everytime he touched the ball.

Durant wasn’t far behind as he scored a quiet 19 points on 7-for-11 from the field while Harden scored 17 of his own on an incredibly efficient 7-for-
Brooklyn was led by an extended 26-13 run over the first eight minutes of the quarter.

Tatum, after scoring 12 points in the first seven minutes, went into the half with 14 points in 20-plus minutes. Smart added to his total of 13 in the half while Fournier scored 11.


NETS PUT IT AWAY
Durant scored 17 points in the third quarter alone as the Nets stars looked like just that. Brooklyn extended its 13-point halftime lead to 18 just 2:23 into the third and quickly added to that before claiming a 112-91 lead heading into the fourth.

Brooklyn, after a strong shooting display in the first half, shot 13-for-19 in the third. They were helped by a 13-4 scoring stretch midway through the quarter.

It was too much for Tatum and Co., despite the two-time All-Star scoring 18 points in the third. And as the lead grew, the more the Celtics became infatuated with the long ball. They went 10-for-32 from behind the arc through three, however.



Irving continued to add to his incredible performance, unfortunately. He finished the three quarters with 31 points including a perfect 11-for-11 at the free throw line.


There were a ton of free throws taken by both teams, the Nets going 26-for-26 at the charity stripe while the C’s going 27-for-30.

NEVER IN DOUBT
The Celtics cut the deficit to 19 points, 133-114, with less than five minutes left, and it was the first time it had been under 20.

Boston brought out the subs in the final minutes, depicting its 15 or so point deficit was probably not what it seemed.

UP NEXT
The Celtics will travel back to Brooklyn in hopes of extending the best-of-seven series. Game 5 will be held Tuesday with tip set for 7:30 p.m. ET.

112288

Sorry but when you treat your defensive paint as some kind of cross walk on Causeway Street in front of TD Garden and allow players to go straight up the gut and have uncontested layups, I lose all respect for the team!

If this was KG's team, the Net players would have had splinters in their bodies from hitting the floor so many times!

I understand you lose William and Walker, but you have to make the other team pay for continuing to pound the paint without any recourse, I draw the line.

We are only a few players shy of getting #18, try about 7 players!

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A fan threw a bottle of water at Kyrie on his way out. Missed by about hmmm 6 inches. Boy was put in handcuffs and escorted out to the Paddy wagon by the PoPo

That is not acceptable behavior. The only people that can hand out punishment are the Boston players themselves!

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Ktron, I see you are using DJ as an avatar. Did you know he holds the NBA Finals record for blocks by a point guard with seven? He did that while playing in Portland. He was one savvy, scrappy, and talented athlete.

This makes my vote of things to happen in the off-season single focused.  Don't care anymore about Brad or Danny or whether they are here or not.  Doesn't matter.

Make Kevin Garnett a Godfather offer for assistant defensive coach he simply can't refuse and give him carte blanche.  If I paid $200-$400 for my ticket yesterday to that game,  I would demand my money back just for our defense display alone.  All the Celtic greats are either rolling over in their graves or putting a bag over their heads in public.    

You're right.  KG would have stopped that crap the first time he saw it coming and could have Kevin McHaled this series into something crazy.  But defense was not in style this season in Boston.  

Of course, you look at the other side of the coin down there in ATL.  Thibs is discovering two things:

1)  Great defense alone does not win championships just like great offense, which BKN is about to find out next round
2)  He works for the Knicks organization - Probably the worst managed sports team ever from the top down

The Knicks are the Knicks are the Knicks.  I made a startling comparison on my way to McDonalds to pick up breakfast this morning.  The Knicks are a lot like my beloved NC State Wolfpack.  They had a great run in the 70's and 80's never to be heard from again.  The Knicks are about the same.  Late 60's and early 70's.  Never to be heard from again.  

But I digress.  Let's get KG on the sidelines.  I can promise you Celtic Pride will be restored INSTANTLY.  He won't put up with it for even a half of a second.  

I'll slide over the the No Fire Zone side of the argument and save the jobs of Brad and Danny for only one more year if you can promise me Boston will pick up KG or KG-like defense guy or gal to shore up the humiliating monstrosity we just saw culminating in Game 4.  BTW, who's on our defensive list that is a female?  That would be very interesting.  Just like in A Few Good Men.  "She outranks you, Lieutenant Kaffee."  

This game has to leave Boston fans shaking their heads and leave a very lingering bad taste in their mouths.  This is what you serve us up first game back at full capacity??!  Yeah, I want my money back.  

MIL now has the blueprint from our Game 3 performance of how to clobber this bought team of prima donnas.  Looks like a bust Brooklyn.  Come join the fold of those teams that thought they could buy a championship in the NBA.  

Alright.  The real fun begins Wednesday morning and thereafter.  This season is a wrap.  Get me KG.  He'll do it, too.  He's just the crazy we need on the sidelines to erase what we just saw.  

db

If our game 3 win gave the Celtics some feeling of absolution, the game 4 debacle brought the truth back into the light.

Boston surrendered 141 points in all manner of fashion and circumstance.  The Nets shot 58.7% from the field and even better from deep (59.3%)  Our turnstyle defense was most accommodating to the Nets as they took turns driving past and around our so-called defenders into the paint.  It was a damn BOGO.  Make a layup and get one free.  Tell your friends and family.

I do not imagine that it should take anymore 'look see' offers to determine that Evan Fournier could not stay in front of a blind 82 year old grandmother pushing a walker.  

I don't suppose that anyone should be surprised that TT scored 5 points and had 6 rebounds after a stellar game 3 performance.  I guess he was due for another underwhelming game going up against that great Nets center rotation.

Semi made a brief appearance. It reminded me that he is like a 1954 DeSoto.  If it actually cranks up for 5 minutes get a neighbor to help you push it back into the yard and don't forget to put the cover over it.

The kids, Nesmith, Pritchard and also G-League talent Langford played hard but they did not play enough during the year to be ready to help consistently during the playoffs because coach Brad Stevens did not prepare them.

Marcus is a baller love him or hate him.  He comes to play and through 4 games he has shot the ball exceptionally well.  Not a memorable defensive play in this series that I can recall though.

Tatum carried the team once again on offense and had another 17/17 exhibition at the line.

Kemba Walker did not play and it was just as well.  Something about a bone bruise on the knee.  He missed 29 regular season games and has quite frankly been god awful in 3 games against the Nets.  He is averaging 12.7 PPG while shooting 32.7% from the field and a hideous 14.3% from deep.

One or two hard fouls when the Nets head to the rim would have been a welcome sight.  But we do not play that way because we are a soft team.  Brad Stevens is a soft coach.  He spends a lot of time watching film.  He should watch some old Detroit Pistons clips.

And just to cement the lack of respect for this team, after the game Kyrie Irving walks to the center of the court and does the mash potatoes on Lucky's face.  It was symbolic of course and the Celtics deserved to be treated like dog s---.

Everything is all set up for the final game of this horrid season and the Celtics should fit right into an offseason since they never really showed up all season.

So dboss, you're still on record that you wouldn't mind not seeing Brad on the sidelines next season but more than likely he'll be back for a very controlled, under the microscopic hot lights one-year experiment, correct? (As with Danny as well)

db

Dboss as soon as Semi came in my son and I were like why...??? then he blew/bricked shot after shot and just before that we actually had the lead and lost it during Semi’s minutes in the worst line up in Celtic playoff history. Stevens made an idiotic move putting that line up on the floor....it started a bleeding that never stopped.

Frenchy has been exposed, not even sure if I want him back, his defense is so poor at this level. We might be better off developing Nesmith and Romeo going forward. In the playoffs you can really see what a player has/brings, it is abudantly clear. Frenchy has had one good game out of 4, his defense is weak enough that in a switching defense, if he’s on the opposing star your fu.ked. Everytime he was switched up, I was like NO, just stay on your man, don’t switch!! Brads defensive schemes don’t work or have to change depending on personnel, I can see that, how come Brad can’t figure this out on the fly? Who the fu.k knows, maybe Frenchy is still weak from covid? His offense has been no where near good enough to make up for his Kelly O like defense, bottomline.

Nets made adjustments, this time they didn’t let TT free access to the paint, they actually put a body on him. Was it me or did Nets get every call that further helped them and fu.ked us? We’re so many non calls that shouldn’t even have been called, that had to go against us. Tatum got a few calls, then later in game got hammered and nothing a few times!! Breath near Kyrie or Durant and they always seem to get the call. This officiating gets worse and worse every year, between the refs, bad coaching, bad personnel and Kyrie acting all innocent, really Kyrie, did you have to go put your foot on the leprechaun and rub the shoe in his face like in public, in front of the cameras, did you really have to do that? I’d like to punch that instigator in the mouth, but that’s just me....

Been kind of on the fence, not sure if I wanted Brad Stevens fired/gone, but now after giving up 141 points with the most putrid coaching, if it can even be called that on the defensive side, he should be gone. He cannot adapt, not at all. Other teams have good players with some defensive weaknesses like say Doncic or Trae Young, but the coaches know the players weakness and put other players around him in a scheme that protects that player somewhat, so that the defense is NOT a colossal failure. We used to do this with the great Larry Bird.

Stevens has no clue how to do this, which is why Kemba has been exposed game after game since he’s been here and how many times did Frenchy get exposed like a turnstile last night? Where is the preparation, how could he be soo clueless? This will only get worse under Brad and Frenchy is 29, in other words I don’t see him getting quicker and more athletic. Never saw Joe Harris get exposed like that ever, he’s an average defender at best. Joe don’t come here, Stevens will put you in the worst positions defensively.....like he did to Jaylen. For the last time how do you call a zone defense with .5 seconds left and them scrambling/cutting every which way, you know like before the ball is inbounded...??? Should I cover an area, which is a zone principle or stick to a man, since you know there’s a lot of movement? It’s been all down hill since that great call by that idiotic coach...!!!

Hard fouls beget fast ejections.  This isn't the 80s.  This isn't the 90s.  This isn't even the NBA of Kevin Garnett.  The refs were blowing everything last night, a total of 49 fouls.  They called a T on Tatum just for arguing their whistles were one-sided, you don't think they'd toss players for deliberately fouling opposing players hard enough to drop them?  They'd have done it if a Net dropped Tatum hard, especially if it looked like it was something they were all trying to do, they sure as Hell would have done it if we did it to any of their Big 3.  If you think we were mismatched last night imagine if Brad had to play the bottom third of his bench because we're already depleted and the players we have left, that we wanted and needed to have out on the court, had been ejected for flagrant 2s.  The zebras gave Durant and Kyrie 11 ftas each, and that's without forcing them to regain control of the game by tossing people.  You don't think they'd have started tossing players if you fouled them hard enough to drop them (and players nowadays scream and fall down like they were shot by an elephant rifle if you so much as look at them hard)?  Then they'd toss the coach for not getting his players under control.  You compete in the league you are playing in today, not in the league of 15-30 years gone by.  You Adapt or Die.  Saying we should start playing a style of basketball that is gone is just our frustrations bursting out, it is not analytical.

And that's really the problem.  They had a Big 3, we have a Big 1.  We were supposed to have a Big 3 but Kemba's a disappointment and Jaylen's out with surgery.  In an offensively oriented league they have more pure firepower than anybody and their Big 3 took their loss to us in Game 3 personally.  Irving was embarrassed in Game 3 and took it personally.  Durant was chirping at our bench all game every time he hit a shot and Harden fed the beasts with 18 assists.

18 assists for Harden.  Our entire team had 24.  24's not a bad number, I'll take 24 assists on 37fgm anyday, but our defense gave them a lot of open shots and dunks.  They ran the same play, we'd double the ball on top and they'd roll to the rim and he'd throw it over the top to him, at least 4X for dunks.  That, if I had to put a finger on it, was Brad's fault.  He should have called a timeout and told them how to deal with it, tell them they need to maybe play off their defenders a bit so they can rotate into the paint in time.  The problem with that is that Sean Marks put together a roster of shooters.  The Nets have one of, if not the, best offenses in the league.  Leave your man and you're dead.

Some of their fg% was due to them shooting lights out.  Durant was hitting some extremely difficult shots.  If RWill played we might have had the length necessary to bother him, but without him we only had Romeo.  The kid did ok, especially considering he was given one of the hardest defensive assignments in the league, guarding a red hot Kevin Durant, but he's at a physical disadvantage as are most defenders.  Kyrie, also, was shooting lights out.  Let's not forget the Nets have TWO league MVPs and one of the top guards in the league.  They gave up a lot of value for Harden, but it's paying off now.  Which one of you would have traded for Harden?  He was as available to us as he was for any other GM.  They gave up Caris LeVert and Jarett Allen, for starters.  Tell me what package you would have offered that would have been better than that.  If the answer is "not either J, nor Smart", then you have no package and if you have no package to compete that's why they have a guy who can score 23 points and dish out 18 assists, and we don't, and he's not even the most noteworthy player on the court for them last night.  Talent wins in this league and they did what it took to get the talent to win now, not "someday, when our stars aren't kids anymore".  I don't see how you can have it both ways.  If you're excited by the Js because they're so young and the future looks bright then you should accept the price that comes with youth, and that is a certain lack of ripeness, and have the patience that is necessary for them to ripen.

As far as Brad not getting the kindergarten ready for the playoffs by playing them regular minutes during the season let me refresh some people's memories.  First, Pritchard played a lot of minutes in the regular season.  He played 1268 minutes total, 19.2mpg.  #3 Jaylen Brown played 1341 minutes in his rookie season, #26 Payton Pritchard was given plenty.  Romeo was injured for most of it, when was Brad supposed to play him?  When he had a cast on his wrist?  Nesmith looked lost earlier in the season, and there's a reason for it.  He had no summer league, almost no camp or preseason and he had just turned 21 in October.  Throwing him out there to get his brains beat in because he's not ready doesn't make him ready.  Nobody would be talking about Romeo's or Nesmith's readiness if Jaylen was playing because they'd be getting cameo minutes at most.  Nobody should be talking about Pritchard's readiness, he got a lot of seasoning during the year for a rookie.  It's Kemba's unavailability, and generally weak play, that is turning the spotlight so unfairly onto PP.  DESPITE ALL THIS, Nesmith still scored 11 points on 4-6, 3-5 from 3 and Pritchard with 12 on 5-9, 2-4 from 3.  23 points on 9-15, 5-9 from 3 in a combined 43 minutes.  So, how were they unprepared from the regular season?  

Tatum with another great game despite swarming defense designed specifically to take the ball out of his hands.  We tried that with Harden but he's a floor general, and burned us as a result, and Tatum is not.

Evan Fournier has some good defensive moments but, overall, he is not a good defender.  He overplayed Harden on the right often.  Everybody knows you must never, ever let Harden go to his left if you want to stand a chance, you must force him to his right, but that's what Fournier kept doing.  Against Harris he also overplayed him on the left.  Harris is a right-handed player, he's the one you force to his left, but Fournier kept funneling him to his right.  And he kept getting beaten off the dribble.  I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's not, but we're seeing why he was on a poor team, one of the worst defensive teams in the league.  Vuc wasn't a defensive-oriented center and Fournier struggles to stay in front of his men.  He doesn't fall off them enough to cut the angle (although, to be fair, if you do that to Harden he'll just stepback 3 you to death) and he doesn't move his feet fast enough to keep up with them, but what's truly appalling to me is his low defensive IQ that forced Harden to his left and Harris to his right.  Not even Romeo, with his 653 minutes, nor Nesmith with his 669 minutes, made those mistakes and they guarded both Harden and Harris as well.

On the bright side, with the exception of the expected defensive lapses, Jabari Parker looked good in his 17 minutes.  10 and 6 is good and his defense wasn't that poor.  Then again, maybe my defensive expectations for him are so low an ant couldn't limbo under the bar.

The word today is that the fan who threw the water bottle at Kyrie will be arraigned today on the charge of Assault and Battery with a Deadly Weapon.  I think "deadly weapon", a water bottle, might be a bit excessive and without any contact I don't see how it can be "Battery", but I'm no lawyer (I still have my soul, thank you very much).  "Assault", though, sounds right.  Buh bye, moron.  You were warned to behave and you didn't.

They were obviously very focused on getting the ball out of Tatum's hands and putting a body on Tristan Thompson to keep him off the boards, daring the rest of the Celtics to beat them.  That strategy worked.  No Jaylen, no Kemba (not that he'd necessarily be a positive difference-maker) equals not enough firepower.  Period.  No Time Lord, no rim protection, no baseline offensive dunk threat equals an opportunity for the defense to come further out and swarm Celtic players (most notably Jayson Tatum) out at the arc and not have to worry about lobs.  People are saying we should have defended more ferociously, made penetrators pay a price.  As I stated earlier, who?  Who could do that?  Luke Kornet?  Please.  Tacko?  Too slow against the Nets (and maybe everybody else too).  So, who?  We're already down our #2 scoring option, our #3 scoring option and our #1 paint defender.  Who?  We were down three starters.  Who?  Who has the talent to challenge drivers in the paint and change their shots, like people are saying, without fouling out?  We didn't have the horses, folks.  Pure and simple, we didn't have the horses.  If you want to say we still wouldn't have had them even if we were healthy, fine.  I agree with that 100%.  I've been saying all along they're the better team, but that's not the players or even the coaches fault.  That's the front office's, they're the ones who constructed this roster.  Didn't we all know, heading into this playoff round, that we weren't the better team?  

Why is everybody so upset at being right?

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401327877


Bob


.

Bob

Big Deal so you get ejected!   But you start setting the mind set that you cannot enter the paint and get a free pass of not getting roughed up along the way.  After a while players will shy away from doing so.

That is how you send a message!  I do not care if half the bench is sent to the locker room, you have to send the message!

This team has NO IDENTITY, NO - HAY THIS IS A TOUGH PHYSICAL DEFENSIVE TEAM! Outside of Thompson, we are a small team and not physical at all.

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If you look at my posts, I am usually glass-half-full, and I have generally been supportive of Brad. I still think he is a good coach. But, giving 60% on 3s and 60% overall??? That seems an awful lot like a team who quit on his coach. Nice to Parker play and play well. I guess nobody could argue the players ahead of him deserved to play since they are better defenders - I am not sure I have ever seen such a poor defensive performance.

You can't even teach bad defense. Just show up.

I've forgotten. Do organizations start firing right after their untimely exit(s) from the playoffs or do they drag it out?

You would expect some news out of MIA soon, then. They certainly had higher hopes than that display of complete and utter under performance.

db

worcester wrote:Ktron, I see you are using DJ as an avatar. Did you know he holds the NBA Finals record for blocks by a point guard with seven? He did that while playing in Portland. He was one savvy, scrappy, and talented athlete.

Worcester, DJ was always one of my favorites and most admired players even before Boston. I believe he played for Seattle the year he and Gus Williams, Downtown Brown and Lonnie Shelton won the finals.
He lived not far from my Mom’s house in Lexington when he played for the C’s. I later watched him coaching Austin the year before he passed away. He and Sam Jones are my all time faves.

dboss wrote:If our game 3 win gave the Celtics some feeling of absolution, the game 4 debacle brought the truth back into the light.

Boston surrendered 141 points in all manner of fashion and circumstance.  The Nets shot 58.7% from the field and even better from deep (59.3%)  Our turnstyle defense was most accommodating to the Nets as they took turns driving past and around our so-called defenders into the paint.  It was a damn BOGO.  Make a layup and get one free.  Tell your friends and family.

I do not imagine that it should take anymore 'look see' offers to determine that Evan Fournier could not stay in front of a blind 82 year old grandmother pushing a walker.  

I don't suppose that anyone should be surprised that TT scored 5 points and had 6 rebounds after a stellar game 3 performance.  I guess he was due for another underwhelming game going up against that great Nets center rotation.

Semi made a brief appearance. It reminded me that he is like a 1954 DeSoto.  If it actually cranks up for 5 minutes get a neighbor to help you push it back into the yard and don't forget to put the cover over it.

The kids, Nesmith, Pritchard and also G-League talent Langford played hard but they did not play enough during the year to be ready to help consistently during the playoffs because coach Brad Stevens did not prepare them.

Marcus is a baller love him or hate him.  He comes to play and through 4 games he has shot the ball exceptionally well.  Not a memorable defensive play in this series that I can recall though.

Tatum carried the team once again on offense and had another 17/17 exhibition at the line.

Kemba Walker did not play and it was just as well.  Something about a bone bruise on the knee.  He missed 29 regular season games and has quite frankly been god awful in 3 games against the Nets.  He is averaging 12.7 PPG while shooting 32.7% from the field and a hideous 14.3% from deep.

One or two hard fouls when the Nets head to the rim would have been a welcome sight.  But we do not play that way because we are a soft team.  Brad Stevens is a soft coach.  He spends a lot of time watching film.  He should watch some old Detroit Pistons clips.

And just to cement the lack of respect for this team, after the game Kyrie Irving walks to the center of the court and does the mash potatoes on Lucky's face.  It was symbolic of course and the Celtics deserved to be treated like dog s---.

Everything is all set up for the final game of this horrid season and the Celtics should fit right into an offseason since they never really showed up all season.

Dboss, agree our D was pretty bad and the Nets giving up 126 to a team down 3 starters tells me they probably are not going much further than the Semi’s.
Kemba’s knee is Cooked. He’s done. The team can lie all they want, he’s finished. TT went back to being Tee Tee, He was basically invisible for the most part. Geez their head coach Jacques Vaughn is a genius ain’t it? Ha! It pained me to see Irving have a good game although I cannot deny his talent and should have expected it. His mashed potatoes routine on the logo further cements his legacy as the biggest jerk that ever laced them up. Great players don’t do that. Even players that are a holes all stars don’t do that. They walk off the floor after a big win with class. He has none. He’s a miserable human being and he continues to prove it every time he opens his pie hole or does something stupid like last night. I don’t agree with fans throwing things at players or shouting nasty things about their families, race etc but I have to admit, if I had been there last night and saw what he did, he’d be wishing it was only a bottle of water that was thrown at him.
Lets face it, this team has a lot of work to do and it starts upstairs. If they’re not going to fire Ainge they need to bring some fresh blood in there, some diversity, someone(s) who can shake things up. I’m afraid that we will eventually lose Tatum and Brown if they don’t do something NOW!

cowens/oldschool wrote:Been kind of on the fence, not sure if I wanted Brad Stevens fired/gone, but now after giving up 141 points with the most putrid coaching, if it can even be called that on the defensive side, he should be gone. He cannot adapt, not at all. Other teams have good players with some defensive weaknesses like say Doncic or Trae Young, but the coaches know the players weakness and put other players around him in a scheme that protects that player somewhat, so that the defense is NOT a colossal failure. We used to do this with the great Larry Bird.

Stevens has no clue how to do this, which is why Kemba has been exposed game after game since he’s been here and how many times did Frenchy get exposed like a turnstile last night? Where is the preparation, how could he be soo clueless? This will only get worse under Brad and Frenchy is 29, in other words I don’t see him getting quicker and more athletic. Never saw Joe Harris get exposed like that ever, he’s an average defender at best. Joe don’t come here, Stevens will put you in the worst positions defensively.....like he did to Jaylen. For the last time how do you call a zone defense with .5 seconds left and them scrambling/cutting every which way, you know like before the ball is inbounded...??? Should I cover an area, which is a zone principle or stick to a man, since you know there’s a lot of movement? It’s been all down hill since that great call by that idiotic coach...!!!

LOL, I shouldn’t laugh because what we saw wasn’t really funny but that .05 zone from last year that Stevens pulled still has you up at night. I bet every time you drive through a school zone, a drug free zone or a construction site work zone visions of Brad pass before you. LOL.But you are right, that was dumb just like that 2nd quarter lineup last night. What was he thinking?
I realize we are down some bodies and Brad has few options but THAT shouldn’t have been one of them.

bobheckler wrote:Hard fouls beget fast ejections.  This isn't the 80s.  This isn't the 90s.  This isn't even the NBA of Kevin Garnett.  The refs were blowing everything last night, a total of 49 fouls.  They called a T on Tatum just for arguing their whistles were one-sided, you don't think they'd toss players for deliberately fouling opposing players hard enough to drop them?  They'd have done it if a Net dropped Tatum hard, especially if it looked like it was something they were all trying to do, they sure as Hell would have done it if we did it to any of their Big 3.  If you think we were mismatched last night imagine if Brad had to play the bottom third of his bench because we're already depleted and the players we have left, that we wanted and needed to have out on the court, had been ejected for flagrant 2s.  The zebras gave Durant and Kyrie 11 ftas each, and that's without forcing them to regain control of the game by tossing people.  You don't think they'd have started tossing players if you fouled them hard enough to drop them (and players nowadays scream and fall down like they were shot by an elephant rifle if you so much as look at them hard)?  Then they'd toss the coach for not getting his players under control.  You compete in the league you are playing in today, not in the league of 15-30 years gone by.  You Adapt or Die.  Saying we should start playing a style of basketball that is gone is just our frustrations bursting out, it is not analytical.

And that's really the problem.  They had a Big 3, we have a Big 1.  We were supposed to have a Big 3 but Kemba's a disappointment and Jaylen's out with surgery.  In an offensively oriented league they have more pure firepower than anybody and their Big 3 took their loss to us in Game 3 personally.  Irving was embarrassed in Game 3 and took it personally.  Durant was chirping at our bench all game every time he hit a shot and Harden fed the beasts with 18 assists.

18 assists for Harden.  Our entire team had 24.  24's not a bad number, I'll take 24 assists on 37fgm anyday, but our defense gave them a lot of open shots and dunks.  They ran the same play, we'd double the ball on top and they'd roll to the rim and he'd throw it over the top to him, at least 4X for dunks.  That, if I had to put a finger on it, was Brad's fault.  He should have called a timeout and told them how to deal with it, tell them they need to maybe play off their defenders a bit so they can rotate into the paint in time.  The problem with that is that Sean Marks put together a roster of shooters.  The Nets have one of, if not the, best offenses in the league.  Leave your man and you're dead.

Some of their fg% was due to them shooting lights out.  Durant was hitting some extremely difficult shots.  If RWill played we might have had the length necessary to bother him, but without him we only had Romeo.  The kid did ok, especially considering he was given one of the hardest defensive assignments in the league, guarding a red hot Kevin Durant, but he's at a physical disadvantage as are most defenders.  Kyrie, also, was shooting lights out.  Let's not forget the Nets have TWO league MVPs and one of the top guards in the league.  They gave up a lot of value for Harden, but it's paying off now.  Which one of you would have traded for Harden?  He was as available to us as he was for any other GM.  They gave up Caris LeVert and Jarett Allen, for starters.  Tell me what package you would have offered that would have been better than that.  If the answer is "not either J, nor Smart", then you have no package and if you have no package to compete that's why they have a guy who can score 23 points and dish out 18 assists, and we don't, and he's not even the most noteworthy player on the court for them last night.  Talent wins in this league and they did what it took to get the talent to win now, not "someday, when our stars aren't kids anymore".  I don't see how you can have it both ways.  If you're excited by the Js because they're so young and the future looks bright then you should accept the price that comes with youth, and that is a certain lack of ripeness, and have the patience that is necessary for them to ripen.

As far as Brad not getting the kindergarten ready for the playoffs by playing them regular minutes during the season let me refresh some people's memories.  First, Pritchard played a lot of minutes in the regular season.  He played 1268 minutes total, 19.2mpg.  #3 Jaylen Brown played 1341 minutes in his rookie season, #26 Payton Pritchard was given plenty.  Romeo was injured for most of it, when was Brad supposed to play him?  When he had a cast on his wrist?  Nesmith looked lost earlier in the season, and there's a reason for it.  He had no summer league, almost no camp or preseason and he had just turned 21 in October.  Throwing him out there to get his brains beat in because he's not ready doesn't make him ready.  Nobody would be talking about Romeo's or Nesmith's readiness if Jaylen was playing because they'd be getting cameo minutes at most.  Nobody should be talking about Pritchard's readiness, he got a lot of seasoning during the year for a rookie.  It's Kemba's unavailability, and generally weak play, that is turning the spotlight so unfairly onto PP.  DESPITE ALL THIS, Nesmith still scored 11 points on 4-6, 3-5 from 3 and Pritchard with 12 on 5-9, 2-4 from 3.  23 points on 9-15, 5-9 from 3 in a combined 43 minutes.  So, how were they unprepared from the regular season?  

Tatum with another great game despite swarming defense designed specifically to take the ball out of his hands.  We tried that with Harden but he's a floor general, and burned us as a result, and Tatum is not.

Evan Fournier has some good defensive moments but, overall, he is not a good defender.  He overplayed Harden on the right often.  Everybody knows you must never, ever let Harden go to his left if you want to stand a chance, you must force him to his right, but that's what Fournier kept doing.  Against Harris he also overplayed him on the left.  Harris is a right-handed player, he's the one you force to his left, but Fournier kept funneling him to his right.  And he kept getting beaten off the dribble.  I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's not, but we're seeing why he was on a poor team, one of the worst defensive teams in the league.  Vuc wasn't a defensive-oriented center and Fournier struggles to stay in front of his men.  He doesn't fall off them enough to cut the angle (although, to be fair, if you do that to Harden he'll just stepback 3 you to death) and he doesn't move his feet fast enough to keep up with them, but what's truly appalling to me is his low defensive IQ that forced Harden to his left and Harris to his right.  Not even Romeo, with his 653 minutes, nor Nesmith with his 669 minutes, made those mistakes and they guarded both Harden and Harris as well.

On the bright side, with the exception of the expected defensive lapses, Jabari Parker looked good in his 17 minutes.  10 and 6 is good and his defense wasn't that poor.  Then again, maybe my defensive expectations for him are so low an ant couldn't limbo under the bar.

The word today is that the fan who threw the water bottle at Kyrie will be arraigned today on the charge of Assault and Battery with a Deadly Weapon.  I think "deadly weapon", a water bottle, might be a bit excessive and without any contact I don't see how it can be "Battery", but I'm no lawyer (I still have my soul, thank you very much).  "Assault", though, sounds right.  Buh bye, moron.  You were warned to behave and you didn't.

They were obviously very focused on getting the ball out of Tatum's hands and putting a body on Tristan Thompson to keep him off the boards, daring the rest of the Celtics to beat them.  That strategy worked.  No Jaylen, no Kemba (not that he'd necessarily be a positive difference-maker) equals not enough firepower.  Period.  No Time Lord, no rim protection, no baseline offensive dunk threat equals an opportunity for the defense to come further out and swarm Celtic players (most notably Jayson Tatum) out at the arc and not have to worry about lobs.  People are saying we should have defended more ferociously, made penetrators pay a price.  As I stated earlier, who?  Who could do that?  Luke Kornet?  Please.  Tacko?  Too slow against the Nets (and maybe everybody else too).  So, who?  We're already down our #2 scoring option, our #3 scoring option and our #1 paint defender.  Who?  We were down three starters.  Who?  Who has the talent to challenge drivers in the paint and change their shots, like people are saying, without fouling out?  We didn't have the horses, folks.  Pure and simple, we didn't have the horses.  If you want to say we still wouldn't have had them even if we were healthy, fine.  I agree with that 100%.  I've been saying all along they're the better team, but that's not the players or even the coaches fault.  That's the front office's, they're the ones who constructed this roster.  Didn't we all know, heading into this playoff round, that we weren't the better team?  

Why is everybody so upset at being right?

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401327877


Bob


.

Bob, with all due respect, swallow your analytics for just one moment. Why don’t you just look at a box score and not watch the games if you’re going to intoxicate your entire being with numbers Ya ya. They bleed emotions. They also bleed common sense and are crutches. Some of it has validity but its a matter of how its applied, You apply EVERYTHING with numbers. It’s still a game that we watch. Take some of the friggn math out of a game that you can see with 2 eyes. There are hard fouls being administered throughout this league and these playoffs. I don’t mean dirty fouls. HARD fouls. There is a difference. Watch some of the other games and get back to me. It’s happens and nobodies getting ejected!! We are getting fouled hard but you fail to see that. We are not talking brawl. I’m talking toughness. Yes, some of it has been taken out of the game but there is still room for common sense toughness. As far as the Harden trade goes, The Nets gave up no stars to get him, They gave up role players and potential something that we appear to have an abundance of-or not. So, what are you or why are you asking what we would have done? The point is moot now but could we have? Yes we could have. I’m all for objective reasoning and I have very little patience for excuses. The latter is what I’m hearing...

bobheckler wrote:Hard fouls beget fast ejections.  This isn't the 80s.  This isn't the 90s.  This isn't even the NBA of Kevin Garnett.  The refs were blowing everything last night, a total of 49 fouls.  They called a T on Tatum just for arguing their whistles were one-sided, you don't think they'd toss players for deliberately fouling opposing players hard enough to drop them?  They'd have done it if a Net dropped Tatum hard, especially if it looked like it was something they were all trying to do, they sure as Hell would have done it if we did it to any of their Big 3.  If you think we were mismatched last night imagine if Brad had to play the bottom third of his bench because we're already depleted and the players we have left, that we wanted and needed to have out on the court, had been ejected for flagrant 2s.  The zebras gave Durant and Kyrie 11 ftas each, and that's without forcing them to regain control of the game by tossing people.  You don't think they'd have started tossing players if you fouled them hard enough to drop them (and players nowadays scream and fall down like they were shot by an elephant rifle if you so much as look at them hard)?  Then they'd toss the coach for not getting his players under control.  You compete in the league you are playing in today, not in the league of 15-30 years gone by.  You Adapt or Die.  Saying we should start playing a style of basketball that is gone is just our frustrations bursting out, it is not analytical.

And that's really the problem.  They had a Big 3, we have a Big 1.  We were supposed to have a Big 3 but Kemba's a disappointment and Jaylen's out with surgery.  In an offensively oriented league they have more pure firepower than anybody and their Big 3 took their loss to us in Game 3 personally.  Irving was embarrassed in Game 3 and took it personally.  Durant was chirping at our bench all game every time he hit a shot and Harden fed the beasts with 18 assists.

18 assists for Harden.  Our entire team had 24.  24's not a bad number, I'll take 24 assists on 37fgm anyday, but our defense gave them a lot of open shots and dunks.  They ran the same play, we'd double the ball on top and they'd roll to the rim and he'd throw it over the top to him, at least 4X for dunks.  That, if I had to put a finger on it, was Brad's fault.  He should have called a timeout and told them how to deal with it, tell them they need to maybe play off their defenders a bit so they can rotate into the paint in time.  The problem with that is that Sean Marks put together a roster of shooters.  The Nets have one of, if not the, best offenses in the league.  Leave your man and you're dead.

Some of their fg% was due to them shooting lights out.  Durant was hitting some extremely difficult shots.  If RWill played we might have had the length necessary to bother him, but without him we only had Romeo.  The kid did ok, especially considering he was given one of the hardest defensive assignments in the league, guarding a red hot Kevin Durant, but he's at a physical disadvantage as are most defenders.  Kyrie, also, was shooting lights out.  Let's not forget the Nets have TWO league MVPs and one of the top guards in the league.  They gave up a lot of value for Harden, but it's paying off now.  Which one of you would have traded for Harden?  He was as available to us as he was for any other GM.  They gave up Caris LeVert and Jarett Allen, for starters.  Tell me what package you would have offered that would have been better than that.  If the answer is "not either J, nor Smart", then you have no package and if you have no package to compete that's why they have a guy who can score 23 points and dish out 18 assists, and we don't, and he's not even the most noteworthy player on the court for them last night.  Talent wins in this league and they did what it took to get the talent to win now, not "someday, when our stars aren't kids anymore".  I don't see how you can have it both ways.  If you're excited by the Js because they're so young and the future looks bright then you should accept the price that comes with youth, and that is a certain lack of ripeness, and have the patience that is necessary for them to ripen.

As far as Brad not getting the kindergarten ready for the playoffs by playing them regular minutes during the season let me refresh some people's memories.  First, Pritchard played a lot of minutes in the regular season.  He played 1268 minutes total, 19.2mpg.  #3 Jaylen Brown played 1341 minutes in his rookie season, #26 Payton Pritchard was given plenty.  Romeo was injured for most of it, when was Brad supposed to play him?  When he had a cast on his wrist?  Nesmith looked lost earlier in the season, and there's a reason for it.  He had no summer league, almost no camp or preseason and he had just turned 21 in October.  Throwing him out there to get his brains beat in because he's not ready doesn't make him ready.  Nobody would be talking about Romeo's or Nesmith's readiness if Jaylen was playing because they'd be getting cameo minutes at most.  Nobody should be talking about Pritchard's readiness, he got a lot of seasoning during the year for a rookie.  It's Kemba's unavailability, and generally weak play, that is turning the spotlight so unfairly onto PP.  DESPITE ALL THIS, Nesmith still scored 11 points on 4-6, 3-5 from 3 and Pritchard with 12 on 5-9, 2-4 from 3.  23 points on 9-15, 5-9 from 3 in a combined 43 minutes.  So, how were they unprepared from the regular season?  

Tatum with another great game despite swarming defense designed specifically to take the ball out of his hands.  We tried that with Harden but he's a floor general, and burned us as a result, and Tatum is not.

Evan Fournier has some good defensive moments but, overall, he is not a good defender.  He overplayed Harden on the right often.  Everybody knows you must never, ever let Harden go to his left if you want to stand a chance, you must force him to his right, but that's what Fournier kept doing.  Against Harris he also overplayed him on the left.  Harris is a right-handed player, he's the one you force to his left, but Fournier kept funneling him to his right.  And he kept getting beaten off the dribble.  I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's not, but we're seeing why he was on a poor team, one of the worst defensive teams in the league.  Vuc wasn't a defensive-oriented center and Fournier struggles to stay in front of his men.  He doesn't fall off them enough to cut the angle (although, to be fair, if you do that to Harden he'll just stepback 3 you to death) and he doesn't move his feet fast enough to keep up with them, but what's truly appalling to me is his low defensive IQ that forced Harden to his left and Harris to his right.  Not even Romeo, with his 653 minutes, nor Nesmith with his 669 minutes, made those mistakes and they guarded both Harden and Harris as well.

On the bright side, with the exception of the expected defensive lapses, Jabari Parker looked good in his 17 minutes.  10 and 6 is good and his defense wasn't that poor.  Then again, maybe my defensive expectations for him are so low an ant couldn't limbo under the bar.

The word today is that the fan who threw the water bottle at Kyrie will be arraigned today on the charge of Assault and Battery with a Deadly Weapon.  I think "deadly weapon", a water bottle, might be a bit excessive and without any contact I don't see how it can be "Battery", but I'm no lawyer (I still have my soul, thank you very much).  "Assault", though, sounds right.  Buh bye, moron.  You were warned to behave and you didn't.

They were obviously very focused on getting the ball out of Tatum's hands and putting a body on Tristan Thompson to keep him off the boards, daring the rest of the Celtics to beat them.  That strategy worked.  No Jaylen, no Kemba (not that he'd necessarily be a positive difference-maker) equals not enough firepower.  Period.  No Time Lord, no rim protection, no baseline offensive dunk threat equals an opportunity for the defense to come further out and swarm Celtic players (most notably Jayson Tatum) out at the arc and not have to worry about lobs.  People are saying we should have defended more ferociously, made penetrators pay a price.  As I stated earlier, who?  Who could do that?  Luke Kornet?  Please.  Tacko?  Too slow against the Nets (and maybe everybody else too).  So, who?  We're already down our #2 scoring option, our #3 scoring option and our #1 paint defender.  Who?  We were down three starters.  Who?  Who has the talent to challenge drivers in the paint and change their shots, like people are saying, without fouling out?  We didn't have the horses, folks.  Pure and simple, we didn't have the horses.  If you want to say we still wouldn't have had them even if we were healthy, fine.  I agree with that 100%.  I've been saying all along they're the better team, but that's not the players or even the coaches fault.  That's the front office's, they're the ones who constructed this roster.  Didn't we all know, heading into this playoff round, that we weren't the better team?  

Why is everybody so upset at being right?

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401327877


Bob


.

Bob, i give you credit, At least you admit that it is the front offices fault but that took awhile to come around. I honestly believe that if our GM (past, present or future) presents as many excuses as you do for our failings, wed be in the lottery every.single.season.
Some of what you present is obvious but man you have a million excuses and no one wants to hear excuses. Not CEO’s, not players (keep with the excuses and you’ll soon have to come up with 2 more when the 2 J’s say f it we are outa here) not media and certainly not fans. Save em

112288 wrote:Bob

Big Deal so you get ejected!   But you start setting the mind set that you cannot enter the paint and get a free pass of not getting roughed up along the way.  After a while players will shy away from doing so.

That is how you send a message!  I do not care if half the bench is sent to the locker room, you have to send the message!

This team has NO IDENTITY, NO - HAY THIS IS A TOUGH PHYSICAL DEFENSIVE TEAM! Outside of Thompson, we are a small team and not physical at all.

112288

Check!

dbrown4 wrote:You can't even teach bad defense.  Just show up.

I've forgotten.  Do organizations start firing right after their untimely exit(s) from the playoffs or do they drag it out?  

You would expect some news out of MIA soon, then.  They certainly had higher hopes than that display of complete and utter under performance.    

db  

Who are they going to fire or who do you think should be fired?

Let me pick at  Bobh a little more.

Do ya remember Jim Loscutoff???

Ml Carr,  Perkins?   

When you are getting your head kicked in you better hit back hard and fast.  All you need is a thug!

Brad did play PP more than other rookies but he still short changed him.  When your boy KW missed all those games and you said it had no impact, I expected Brad to play PP as a starter a lot more. Brad has been dicking around with GW for two years and yet he put Nesmith on a short leash.

I know what happened.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Dboss as soon as Semi came in my son and I were like why...??? then he blew/bricked shot after shot and just before that we actually had the lead and lost it during Semi’s minutes in the worst line up in Celtic playoff history. Stevens made an idiotic move putting that line up on the floor....it started a bleeding that never stopped.

Frenchy has been exposed, not even sure if I want him back, his defense is so poor at this level. We might be better off developing Nesmith and Romeo going forward. In the playoffs you can really see what a player has/brings, it is abudantly clear. Frenchy has had one good game out of 4, his defense is weak enough that in a switching defense, if he’s on the opposing star your fu.ked. Everytime he was switched up, I was like NO, just stay on your man, don’t switch!! Brads defensive schemes don’t work or have to change depending on personnel, I can see that, how come Brad can’t figure this out on the fly? Who the fu.k knows, maybe Frenchy is still weak from covid? His offense has been no where near good enough to make up for his Kelly O like defense, bottomline.

Nets made adjustments, this time they didn’t let TT free access to the paint, they actually put a body on him. Was it me or did Nets get every call that further helped them and fu.ked us? We’re so many non calls that shouldn’t even have been called, that had to go against us. Tatum got a few calls, then later in game got hammered and nothing a few times!! Breath near Kyrie or Durant and they always seem to get the call. This officiating gets worse and worse every year, between the refs, bad coaching, bad personnel and Kyrie acting all innocent, really Kyrie, did you have to go put your foot on the leprechaun and rub the shoe in his face like in public, in front of the cameras, did you really have to do that? I’d like to punch that instigator in the mouth, but that’s just me....

+1  You punch him and I'll kick em

Ktron, duh! Yes. DJ was with Seattle. He was one of my favorite players too. Everyone remembers when Larry stole the ball on the inbound pass from Isiah at the close of that playoff game against Detroit, but few praise DJ for heading to the basket to catch Larry's pass off the steal. DJ won that game for us with his heads up play.

worcester wrote:Ktron, duh! Yes. DJ was with Seattle. He was one of my favorite players too. Everyone remembers when Larry stole the ball on the inbound pass from Isiah at the close of that playoff game against Detroit, but few praise DJ for heading to the basket to catch Larry's pass off the steal. DJ won that game for us with his heads up play.

Yessir!